Oh no! What will we do without Pontiac, Saturn, and Saab?

I'd trade 'em all in to bring back Oldsmobile.

Step 1- Make safer, more eco friendly cars that get more mpg and you got almost instant sales right there.

I would have no issue buying American if they werent overpriced junk.

Innovate or die.

Why don't they drop GMC? They're the same friggin trucks that are branded in Chevrolet. Seems like a waste...

@parad0x360:

You do know that GM offers more vehicles that get above 30mpg than any other company right?

So when are you going to buy a Malibu that gtes better mpg than a Camry or Accord?

Put your money where your mouth is... thats all I'm sayin.

@tman996: That was my initial thought. The only GM cars I would consider are SAAB and Saturn.

Anyone who names a car "Vibe" (as in vibrator), should not get a bailout.

@tman996: IIRC, GMC is marketed towards specific industry sales, duty trucks, if you will. I do think they could merge the commerical aspect of GMC with the Chevy namebadge.

@HRHKingFridayXX: I would add the makers of the Aztec to that list as well.

Why in the world is the General keeping Boo Ick? I mean, Buick...

Can someone explain to me why GM and Ford divisions in other countries continue to make superb cars (the Mondeo, various Opel and Holden models), while the best GM can do here is produce way-overpriced Cadillacs and Ford gives us a stupid brickmobile the Flex plus yet another solid-rear-axle Mustang?

And don't get me started on those frightening-looking, overpriced pieces of junk wearing the Lincoln badge...

@HRHKingFridayXX: Ditto. I'm on my 4th Saab and loving every minute of it.

@parad0x360: I think people buy cars more based on perceived initial value, cost of ownership, future resale value, and appeal of design.

Basically quality sells cars. But am sure safety and eco-friendliness fit in there somewhere.

@tman996: I've thought this for a long time. GM seems to have an insane amount of overlap for their products. I've thought for a long time that GM should seperate like this:

Chevy: Trucks & SUVs
Cadillac: Luxury division
Saturn: Cars (Saturn Corvette ZR-1? lol)

That way you don't have the same fucking car or truck being made under several different names.

@mykie: YES. Another oldsmobile fan. I'll always remember my Cutty.

But my Pontiac isn't that bad - my family's been buying them for about 15 years now, and we haven't had any major problems (of course, small ones, but what you expect from any car). The problem is more than they have too many lines, rather than the cars being *BAD* in and of themselves.

Disclaimer: IMHO, IANAL, IAAPO (I am a Pontiac Owner), YMMV, etc etc etc.

I could imagine getting rid of the whole dealership style process and go to Car Stores. They wouldn't be brand specific. Ask for a truck, they can show you new Toyota, Nissan, Ford or whatever. That way you get out of the dealership mentality. Few dealerships, and then lower inventory outstanding.

@jpdanzig: The Ford Flex is the dumbest thing they could have possibly released. They had plenty of time to see that the trend was going against super sized SUVs... so what do they do? Instead of stopping and changing directions, they just keep on trucking with a plan that is obsolete, knowing that it is going to fail. Ford is a gigantic boat with a little tiny motor, totally unable to fight it's own momentum.

Let 'em go bankrupt. Nothing motivates innovation and structural change like fighting for your life.

I see a lot here about "cutting under-performers", but here's a news flash to the big 3: ALL YOUR LINES UNDERPERFORM. So you're going to cut off the dead and leave only the dying? What are you going to do to raise quality (or perception thereof)? what are you going to do to increase fuel efficiency? What are you going to do to build a damn product that American's will actually BUY?

Another example of being out of touch: why sacrifice Saturn (cost efficient, mostly fuel efficient) and Saab (safe, fairly fuel efficient, although lux priced....I'm biased because I own one, though) in order to save their lineups of gas-guzzling death traps??

Yo, GM, lemme give you some advice: QUIT TRYING TO PUSH SHIT CARS PEOPLE DON'T WANT.

Only if they fire the whole design and engineering staff and all of upper management. Only then would I back this bailout request.

I am sorry, but for me to even consider it a good idea to give these guys bailouts, we are going to need a lot more assurance from them that they are going to invest the money in AMERICAN JARBS!!!

It seems sad that I could buy a Mercedes, Toyota or even a Hyundai that has contributed more to the American economy by employing American workers than one of the Detroit Big 3 (most Fords and Chevys are made South of the Border).

We should make it a stipulation that if they take our money, the should build the cars on American soil!

They took our JARBS!

Uh, what stopped them from taking this "new" and "innovative" approach before they lost their shirts and needed a bailout?

@Kazari:

Problem is, the car manufacturing industry alone gives jobs to over 13 million Americans. The financial industry gives jobs to 8 million.

Financial Industry - 100's of billions of dollars.
Auto Industry - 0.

Hummer. The word that describes perfectly what's wrong with auto industry in USA.

I don't get it. About 10 days ago, GM said they were burning through something like $3B a month and would be insolvent be January. Now, walla, $12B will not only keep them going for a year or so, it will let them re-tool, innovate, research, etc. etc.

Methinks they had (and likely still have) no f-ing clue what's going on in their own company.

@parad0x360: If that were true, you'd own an American car. Or at least seriously consider them. Most cars on the road are American cars, and most people are happy with their cars. The Big 3 still own 40% of the market. Why the heck would you think they don't build good cars?

Maybe your preference isn't an American car. That's fine. I've owned two Hondas and a VW. But don't lie about your reasons; that only shows what a small person you are.

It doesn't seem like they're really promising anything, just "focus" (on four brands, doesn't mean they won't waste money on the rest), "review," and "accelerate discussions." How the hell does that make them suddenly more profitable? Sounds to me like they are just going to waste taxpayer money on a bunch of useless committees.

@allnitecp: Nothing you say is true. Like I said above to someone else, buy what you like, but don't spread lies to justify your position because it only makes you look like an ignorant redneck who says "jarbs" without any sense of irony.

If an American company has 1000 people in a plant building cars, and a German company has 1000 people in a plant building cars, then the American company is providing much, much more to the American economy than the Germany company, because assembling the car is such a tiny, little piece of the pie.

Likewise, the vast majority of US brands are still built in the United States and Canada, not Mexico, but I guess since you're being racist, Canada's okay because most of them are white.

@HRHKingFridayXX: The vibe is one of the best cars GM sells. It's a Toyota corolla with a wagon top.

@BusyBusyBusyBusySleep: My parents still have their (and later my) 72 cutlass. It will always hold a special place in my heart.

As much as I like driving an econo car from Toys-r-Cars and Honder

(actually they are pretty darn good cars)

What is hell would happen to the price of the average Honder should GM disappear off the face of the earth?

Same thing for Toys-r-Cars and Ford?

Competition is good for the consumer, even if the choices sux dirty slimmy swamp water.

@Kazari: Seriously. Let them die. They have had decades to read the handwriting on the wall and ignored it. But all of us need to be prepared for a few decades of pain as we slowly eliminate this necrosis. It's going to cost us billions no matter what, but let's not spend our billions propping up this wheezing industry suffering terminal dementia. Let them pass away without heroic measures. DNR.

Pontiac needs to just be shut down. Their cars are just heinously ugly rebadges of other cars. Plus, there's that gross vibe when someone says "I drive a Pontiac." It's like taking a trip back to the 80's, only to wind up in a trailer park.

@mindshadow: Building the same car and selling it under different brands with slight changes is a profitable way to compete with other companies. If you can make a car you sell as a luxury car from many of the same parts as your economy car, you can have a car in both markets without much additional cost. Just like how name brand companies will also sell the same exact product in a generic box so they can control the whole market rather than letting a competitor take over the generic market. Basically it is what Toyota does with the Corolla. The same frame and mechanical parts are used in the Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe. The same car with a different top can be sold to a totally different customer. It's like paying to develop one car, but being able to sell two totally different cars to the consumer.

@humphrmi: It probably means they'll sell them off. Thus creating quick cash and unloading debt.

Chevy, Caddy, and GMC. Ditch everything else. It's common sense really.

Cut Saturn??? You mean TELLING US what to pay for our cars isn't even making you any money??? Good Lord what the hell are you doing over there???

@robb9: in america? and not "estimated highway mileage"?

"Over a week-long test, we found the four cylinder Accord to be conservatively rated at 21 city and 31 highway miles per gallon (MPG), as we achieved 34 MPG on the highway and 28.1 combined in over 600 miles of driving."

"Chevrolet Malibu 4 cylinder 2.2 liter Automatic (4) Regular 21 city 31 highway"

"Toyota Camry 4 cylinder 2.4 liter Manual (5) Regular 21 city 31 highway"

i'm not seeing a difference. maybe you can find one. the camry's even a slightly bigger engine running at the same mileage. that right there says room for improvement.

[www.mpgomatic.com]

@balthisar: he really doesn't have to be lying. american cars are overpriced for their actual worth. i mean just on what you get as far as a car's lifetime knocks most american cars made now out. sure, we probably all know someone still driving around a 80 something bronco but it's getting 8 miles to the gallon and has probably has a good smattering of body rust. ford has wiring problems. but i can look at the road and see a load more of cheap ass 92 civics that are running better than a 10 year old chevy.

@tman996: gmc cars tend to have more metal body panels than the chevy versions. at least, that WAS the main difference for a while.

@LandruBek: Did you read the writing on the wall? I doubt you foresaw this happening.

Armchair economists. I love it.

@downwithmonstercable:

That makes the ridiculous assumption that anyone is willing to buy them for any reasonable price (if at all).

I wish they would have deep-sixed SAAB before I bought one. That car deserves to die. I'd be glad to offer my as a sacrifice to the auto gods.

robb9: stop regurgitating that "GM produces more cars that get 30 mpg than Honda or Toyota" nonsense.

Does it not make more sense to go with a company that has gotten it right consistently since the mid 80's (Toyota) than to go with the company that is just realizing what the consumer wants (GM)?

How about going with the company whose cars have held their resale value consistently over the years (Honda/Toyota) than going with the company whose cars lose half their value in 2 years (GM)?

I am tired of hearing half-assed reasons trying to convince us to buy their crap just because they are finally figuring it out. They can tape a ham sandwich to the Malibu and I will still choose the Camry over it!

@WiglyWorm: Sadly the American manufacturers have a quick way to increase gas mileage. Start putting 4 cylinder engines in their vehicles instead of v6s and v8s.

@axiomatic: The purpose of the bailout is to prevent that. Under bankruptcy, they would have to do drastic things to become profitable. Under a bailout, they don't have to do anything.

they need to cut back to 12 models, no more. they need to sell the same models globally, they need to globalize the supply chain, but that would mean firing executives

@robb9: My Acura RSX (a sports car) gets 33-35 mpg and its 6 years old.

Oh and it was cheaper than a Malibu with the same options.

@HRHKingFridayXX: Agreed, everything I've heard about Saabs has been positive. I say ditch Buick or GMC. One's overpriced, the other's just ugly.

Nooo....don't take my Saturn away. Ahh well, my next car was going to be a Hyundai anyways.

@balthisar: I'm a small person because I wont buy an American car? My whole family drives them, I've owned 3 myself.

Why dont I think they build good cars? Well, I know 3 mechanics, 2 of which work at dealers. What cars come in the most for defects or service long before they are due? American cars 9/10 times. What cars based on worldwide statistics have the worst pollution rates and get the least fuel economy? American cars.

I didnt stop buying them because I have something against them. I checked into it and made the most cost effective choice in the long run.

I also dont care if most people drive something. Just because alot of people use or do something doesnt make it the best option.