Well duh! You don't need to be an economist to see that. Who is going to buy a car (of any make, but especially American) in this kind of economy? Getting a bailout isn't going to get people to buy cars.

Some people in congress are talking about using the remaining bailout money to give the middle/lower tax bracket a 2 month tax holiday. I think this idea is genius. That would give you between 30-45% of your income for 2 months, it would be 10x better then a stimulus check. I vote we do it that way (assuming we have to stick with this bailout agenda).

I vote we bail out the American people. And if the American people don't use their money for American cars, then we don't need that many American car companies. Is this not common sense?

Maybe it won't help, but if no bailout results in massive loss of jobs, then a bailout will help maintain the status quo, rather than allowing the economy to get worse due to increased unemployment?

It sucks, but we're all in this together. If these companies go belly up, so do their parts suppliers, and the ripple effect will be devastating.

If it were a strong market right now, it would be no big deal - the car demand that previously translated into Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler sales would move to other car companies. Those companies would start buying from the old Ford/Chevy/Chrysler suppliers, keeping them in business.

As it is, though, these companies would take down dozens or hundreds more with them. Very scary.

Spock: Jim, they are dying.
Kirk: Let them die!

Sums up my feelings. If they weren't smart enough to get ahead of the curve, to take the lessons of the expansion of the foreign car market and the quality of foreign name plates to heart, then they need to die. Same goes for Wall Street. Yes, it would create economic chaos, but it would also keep us from propping up tottering, archaic institutions that we're going to have to continually bail out.

@Bladefist: Seems like a lot of people would just immediately increase their spending, and would be screwed when the tax holiday ended.

A check in the mail has the advantage of being a windfall bonus...a change in your paycheck would be misinterpreted by many dummies as a "raise".

The American Auto industry is so bad at making cars that the CEO's didn't even drive their brand cars to the bailout hearings./Rimshot

@InfiniTrent: But I should add that I like the idea of a virtually no-administrative-cost tax rebate, which is what you described.

@NefariousNewt: Ah.. such an appropriate reference.

@InfiniTrent: Oh it will ripple. But the point is, you bail them out, fine, in a year, when cars still aren't selling, you bail them out again? Or do you just take them under the Government wing as a national cost?

All the employees and suppliers will have to adapt. We'll have cars, more cars then we have now, cars cars cars, but it wont be American cars. They'll need to migrate over to the foreign industry. Which, a lot of them are starting to build their plants here. Also those cars will need to be repaired, etc.

@NefariousNewt: Yes, it would create economic chaos

Under your plan, what do you suggest we do about the hundreds of thousands of unemployed, and the resulting escalation of the economic crisis?

"But we sure showed them!"

@InfiniTrent: Sadly you have a point. But, at some point we have to quit thinking about the idiots. America is not a baby sitter for the intellectually challenged.

@Bladefist: I read that on Boortz yesterday and it sounded like a nice idea. But I'm too much of a cynic to believe most libertarian economic policies will work in our gigantic country of undisciplined spendthrifts.

Basically, we had a wonderful concept of a nation and completely screwed it up by letting it get too big (geographically, politically, even culturally)

@Bladefist: And to add, new American car companies will start, that focus on efficiency, etc. Innovation, capitalism will flurish. AKA, someone somewhere has a great idea and wants to get rich. New, better, American companies will rise and take back the market.

@DrGirlfriend: On the otherhand, all the layoffs will create a need for jobs at the unemployment offices.

@InfiniTrent: I'm opposed to a bailout for the automakers because they need to go bankrupt and reorganize and they will never do it if we don't stop bailing them out. The auto industry is screwed no matter what the next few years - nobody is going to be buying cars. (Well, I will, but I'll probably buy used anyway)

Not to mention, I don't believe for a second that they aren't going to keep outsourcing every part of themselves. They'll bleed out the jobs - just slower, over years, instead of all at once.

@Bladefist: Even though you're right, you're also very wrong.

As long as people think Uncle Sam is there to give you hand outs if you are lazy, people will continue to treat it like so.

I'd like savings accounts to be exempt from taxes.

@Oranges w/ Cheese: Spock came back though...Night of the Undead Car Companies! Blargh!

@InfiniTrent: well, i think the entire purpose of a program like that is for americans to increase spending. after all, isn't that the traditional method for getting the ball rolling again?

it all boils down to bad loans. there wasnt a huge demand for cars to begin with. just a bunch of greedy corporations force feeding subprime auto loans. now they wanna cry b/c its backfiring. boohoo. want a kleenex? just use the billions and trillions of dollars for these bailouts for the people losing their jobs, i mean come on you could hire everyone of them and put them into some research and development company and probably cure aids and cancer. or put a colony on the moon.

Let them die. Throwing money at a failing industy is not going to solve anything. The overhead to produce is out of control and the quality is not there to justify the price. The industry needs to crash so that it can be rebuilt from the ground up, without UAW. There's equal pay laws etc on the books, what do we need the unions for anyway? maybe universal health care would help overhead for employee benefits and such.

@mike: I said this above, and maybe should have pointed it out more, "Assuming we have this bailout Agenda"

I agree with you. I hate this bailout stuff and the government keeps growing and @$@$ things up as they go. Right now we need conservatism! :)

@nicemarmot617: I agree on the bankrupcty point - I think they should make BK part of their business plan under the bailout...that would let them shed the union weight and get rid of their insane glut of 6000+ dealers.

I'm torn. Many of our customers are auto dealers, and their business is slowing daily. In principle, I am a financial darwinist, but if they go under, I may be looking for a new job too.

@Bladefist: Hey, you make good points. I'm just sayin' :)

Since people are sheep, I just worry for the economy. We think we've seen freaking out before? Wait until GM fails - the stock market will drop another 2-3000 points.

If the US auto industry fails and I hope it will I won't be shedding any tears. I never liked US cars and I always hated 'patriotic Americans' driving around in huge gas guzzlers and talking crap about far superior foreign cars. They have been quiet lately ;)

I just love it!

@InfiniTrent: We find them work. I'd rather the government took the $700 billion or $3.2 trillion that is in fact just more debt, and found all these workers new jobs, or paid for them to be retrained for new sectors. Now is the perfect opportunity to stop pouring money down holes and start trying to build a new society with better, more secure jobs.

@2719: This is the exact attitude we don't need.

There are many reasons not to support this bailout, but yours is the worst.

@2719: yes... although spite is not the right reason to make any decision, it would at least make me feel good if they went under :)

@B: So, glass half full for you, I see!

@Burgandy: No offense, but you're screwed whether or not they get bailed out. You might get screwed later instead of sooner, but there are 3x as many gm and ford dealerships as need be, and this will be adjusted, bailout or not.

Time to get creative!

@InfiniTrent: This should have been handled the same way as in the Air Force One movie's, "don't give in to terrorist demands" policy. If you give in for any reason you set a bad precedent and they will take advantage of you over and over.

It is sad that the government screwed this up long ago. Now everyone wants their handout.

@DrGirlfriend: I admit that's a terrible problem. I don't want to see people lose their jobs, I don't want to see these companies take others down with them from lack of demand -- but is it RIGHT that we suffer with their shit for 30 more years only to be faced with this same problem again down the road?

They *are not* willing to change, and they have made that obvious. We need to kill them NOW, and get it over with instead of suspending the inevitable and throwing our country into further and further decline.

They could go a long way to ditch the unions and get rid of several hundred billion dollars in overhead - right there!

@InfiniTrent: Good! It's been overinflated for years. Let it fall too and stop using rumor-mongering and speculation as a basis for our economy.

@InfiniTrent: INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE haven't invested in that in years, which is why our roads, our bridges, all that shit is falling to pieces. Get them jobs building bridges, doing labor like they were doing before. Improve our nation as you employ its masses.

@Bladefist: Hrmm, this bailout has the disadvantage of directing money to the people who already have jobs / haven't recently lost their jobs. I think the only people who would increase spending as a result are those who are currently employed but are struggling. Maybe this makes up a larger percentage of the population than I think it does, but overall it won't fix consumer confidence issues, it won't lead to job creation and it won't fix credit market issues.

@2719: Its the whole American attitude that got us into this mess. Bigger cars, bigger spending, bigger houses, more more more.

If people SAVED and lived within their means instead of spending every single penny they have and then running up the credit cards to boot, we wouldn't be here.

But.

@Darascon: Get rid of the UAW part and I would have sworn you were talking about the finance industry 3 months ago...

In order for the auto industry, specifically the Big 3, to recover, people need to start buying cars. People aren't buying cars right now because the economy sucks balls. Loaning money to the Big 3 won't do anything to change that. They'll burn through their $34B doing pretty much what they're doing right now (perhaps short a few brands), and then they'll come back to grovel for some more.

Be careful what you wish for, those of you who think it will be no big deal for ALL of us, in all areas of this country, and no big deal for the economy. You think it's bad now? If even one car company fails, OR has to go into bankruptcy, I think there's an excellent chance it could ripple, or even cascade, into a severe recession or depression. We are talking about more than just the car companies. Every part of this country is already seeing the effects from their problems. It is starting to have dramatic effects on the tax bases of cities, counties, states. And do you really think further degradation of our American manufacturing base is a GOOD thing? I sure don't. You think they and the unions have been fat and happy? They've been working and planning for downsizing and concessions since 2000. Their quality HAS improved, and there is good product in the pipeline. But they have hit the perfect storm, of a bad economy, gas prices, government regulation, etc. Just let the foreign car companies take over, take the jobs? The southern states have already given the foreign companies MILLIONS in tax rebates and escapements, to build their plants, and that continues. And how long would it take for those supposed 'others' to pick up the slack? Are you sure our economy can take that blow. Read www.autoextremist.com and see beyond the crap that they keep throwing out in the media and congressional hearings. He's got some good info on his site.

@NefariousNewt: Where is this miraculous supply of jobs you have that can take in the entire US auto industry, and all the other jobs that industry is responsible for?

@The Name's Ash78, Housewares: Yeah, I would just buy more guns and ammo.

@2719: I agree with Bladefist that this probably isn't the best reason to oppose the bailout, but I wanted to point out that my more of my Honda was made/assembled in the United States than any "American" vehicle on any Big 3 lot right now. That actually factored into my decision to buy it. Almost 80% of my car was made and assembled here in the US. When I was shopping the big 3, their cars were only 50%, give or take, American built.

@Oranges w/ Cheese: BINGO. Imagine what $25Billion could buy us in terms of roads and bridges. That would create a crap ton of jobs as well.

@Oranges w/ Cheese: I know, right? Weren't we just talking two years ago about all the deficient bridges on the brink of collapse around the nation??

I'm guessing CNN didn't actually poll anyone in Detroit. I think a bailout is a bad idea too but if the big 3 go under, there will be some pain and it's foolish to just write that off.

I'm buying a Ford, to replace the Ford that I've been driving for the last 15 years and is still in perfect running condition.

@NefariousNewt: Very true. The American auto industry is very inefficient. Companies are releasing way more lines than they can support (I think GM has like 7 or 8?). In contrast, I believe efficient, extremely well managed, foreign companies such as Toyota have under half that. These are just poor companies that can no longer compete. A greater emphasis should be put on retraining the soon to be unemployed workers and facilitating them finding new work.

This entire auto industry bailout is a bunch of fucking crap. They are claiming that the sky is falling if they don't get their money, just like the financial institutions did before they got theirs.

Whatever 'plan' the big moronic three come up with and present to Congress will be changed and modified once they get their money and once again, the taxpayer, will be completely screwed.

Let these overbloated, mis-managed, no foresight companies go bankrupt and pay the price for their own stupid mistakes. Oh, but I guess we don't do that here anymore in America, we bailout any company because it seems they're all 'too big to fail.'

BOHICA!