She-Grifters Scam Granddad For $10,000+ A Month
Shaun says his 80+-year old grandfather, Steve, is being scammed out of over $10,000 a month. It seems Steve recently hired a female gardener who introduced him to a "wealthy friend," and now he's loaning them money to pay for groceries, cable, home upkeep, and, get this, bodyguards to protect her from an ex-husband and son who to want to kill her. When the family tries to intervene, Steve says the family is trying to put him in a nursing home and steal his money. Shaun is at a loss. How can he help his grandfather, who doesn't want to be helped? Shaun's story, inside...
My grandfather, Steve, is being scammed out of his money by a group of women including his gardener. Steve is in his mid 80's and lives in Florida. He is retired and recently hired a new gardener. She introduced him to her supposedly wealthy friend who soon thereafter was "injured" in Maine. The gardener has convinced him to "loan" the women money, in cash, to pay for upkeep on her home, groceries, cable, bodyguards to protect her from her ex-husband and son who want to kill her, and many other things.
It is at the point where he is giving these women over $10k a month out of the only account that my parents have access to (so it could be a lot more from his other accounts).
When my parents tried to talk to Steve he says they are trying to put him in a nursing home and steal his money.
He insists that he knows what he is doing and he does not need anyone's help. We tried calling the Florida Abuse Hotline. Their response was that he can give his money away if he wants to. We recently spoke to his doctor who said that one of Steve's neighbors was also worried about him, the gardener had been coming around quite a bit.
Apparently another investigation has begun since we spoke to the doctor but nothing has come of it yet. Is there anything else we can do? Any help would be greatly appreciated
Sounds like a con to me. I wonder if a call to the police or FBI would help. Do any Consumerists have any advice on how the family can intervene? Or is it the old guy's right to do whatever he wants with his money? Leave your thoughts in the comments.
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Comments:
**This is not a legal opinion or legal advice**
Theoretically, it would seem that Steve would have to be adjudicated as incompetent in order to prevent him from being able to dispose of his money as he pleases.
Perhaps he's arranged for more than just gardening and is content with blowing his retirement savings to enjoy his last few good years. Maybe he's making up this "loan" bit to cover it up from his family who's noticed the missing money. Sounds like he's getting a bit defensive when questioned about it, I suspect there is something else going on that he's not to keen on the family digging into.
As cold as it might seem, there's only so much you can do. The parents have informed the grandfather (presumably more than once) of what's going on, and he refuses to listen. If he is indeed of sound mind, then it really is his choice. Risky? Perhaps. Foolish? Sure. Apart from saying "Gramps, these hoochies are clearly trying to steal your nest egg, and I think you need to cut them off", give as much info as you have to the police and let them handle it.
I'm sure I'm going to be roasted for saying this, but if he is still capable of making informed choices and wants to blow his cash on being some gardener's sugar daddy, it's still within his rights to do so.
Go and confront the woman in person. Bring a large friend. Be polite, but firm.
I second the idea of getting the police involved. I'd also consider hiring an attorney who could get a judge to grant a temporary conservatorship, which could possibly be used to stop him from disvesting his assets in this way. Aggressive intervention may be necessary at this point.
IANAL
Seek a guardianship, you'll likely need to file a law suit. I sounds like there may be some dementia issues (he thinks the parents are trying to put him away, etc.) so guardianship is the way to go at least temp.
And yes he can give his money away there are laws in Florida to protect against financial exploitation of the elderly. [www.fldfs.com] I'd start with the police.
Post photos of the grifters on the internets and see what happens...
Call the FBI. It is not legal for them to lie for the money. It sound like this may cross state-lines, and therefore be a federal issue.
If no one can convince him that giving his money away to the nice stranger is a bad idea, get a court to declare him incompetent and put him in a home. Otherwise wave good bye to your inheritance.
I was thinking that but didn't want to say it. And - if that is the case, I can only hope that I'm that lucky guy at 60 some day.
But isn't that what the grifters (or ladies of the night) are telling Steve that his family will do to him?
I agree it's probably the only way but it probably won't go over big at next year's Thanksgiving.
Hmmm They tell Gramps to give the "gardener" the heave (pardon the pun) hoe.
Gramps says "I know what I'm doing and you're trying to put me in a home."
They say "No we're not" but show up a week later with a lawyer?
Oh, this can't end well for anyone, can it?
Tell the guy that I'm the one who'll watch out for his fiscal interests, at "only" $8,000/mo?
(Yes, I'm going to Hell. But how else will I get to keep in close contact with my mortality-challenged friends?)
Ahem. Since the LW and his grandfather are in different states, it might make sense to hire a local FL private eye to track down the grifters, in preparation for handing a packet over to authorities. Anyone know of how to find a reputable, out-of-state one?
Not to bash the OP but he seems concerned about this money a lot...IF the guy is sane and capable of making decisions then there is nothing you could/should do. Otherwise go to court to get a freeze on his assets so only your parents can access his money because he is mentally incompetent.
Hank Jr comes to mind: "I like the sweet young things and OLD GRANDAD"
For that kind of money, I'd hope he's at least getting laid, or some other form of gratification besides the warm fuzzies of altruism.
@tmed: Yep, could be wire / mail fraud charges. Feds are usually reluctant to get involved unlesss the amount of stolen funds is greater than $100,000. But the family should hire an attorney. At minimum the attorney can find information on the grifters and present evidence to law enforcement to step in if necessary. Having Gramps declared incompetent is only secondary. Protect the man's nest egg that is supposed to care for HIM. Screw the inhertiance. Take care of Gramps!
Shaun writes, "Is there anything else we can do?"
It sounds like you and your family live in another state, and these women who are taking advantage of your Grandfather are local.
I'm going to offer a bit of tough love: If your Grandfather is more likely to believe non-relatives than his own kids and grandkids, you've probably been neglecting him. How frequently are you spending time with him? And how frequently are these women spending time with him? I'm not saying that these women are right--far from it, they're conning him--but it sounds as if your Grandfather sounds a bit neglected or taken for granted by his family members.
What can you do? I'd recommend you go for a visit...a nice, long visit. Show up and just don't leave. Hang out and regain your Grandfather's trust. And meet these women. Spend time with them. I bet they'll make themselves scarce as soon as the family arrives and starts paying attention to Granddad again.
@winstonthorne: This sounds like intimidation or criminal threatening. Would likely end up with the opposite of the desired effect - with you in prison and the women free to do as they please.
Tell the grandfather that he can do whatever he wants with his money, but instead of giving the ladies cash he should pay the bills that they bring to him. I seriously doubt that they are paying any legitimate bills and the requests for money should hopefully dissipate. Thats the best I can think of without getting police involved or having the grandfathers mental health evaluated.
Of course if you do go the police route. Just spend a lot of time at the grandfathers, document everything that goes on and bug the lady by taking pics and asking a ton of personal questions. You might be able to scare them off before police actually have to get involved.
Okay, without knowing a lot more specifics of the situation (hard to give ideal advice on this) a few things come to mind here...
One, if your family lives in one state and the grandfather in another, you need to get down there and be right in the face of this "gardener" and her friend, and "be polite but firm" as the earlier poster said. Speaking to the grandfather's neighbor isn't going to cut it. Just the mere fact that this gardener knows someone is on to her scams may get her out of the picture (but it may not once you've headed home and I'm assuming him moving up to your family's place is not an option).
Second, it sounds like your grandfather is a lonely person and is looking for some kind of validation which he probably finds through this gardener/scammer. You need to find a way to get him out of the house so he can meet other people in his age group. Surely there are a lot of senior citizen programs in the area. This might help fill the void in his life causing him to give so much money away. If he gets out of the house more often, there will be less time for him to be scammed by these people.
Third, I know it's been stated before, but look into what you can do as far as a legal guardianship arrangement goes. I know it's not easy to set up, but it's worth checking into. Forget the Florida Abuse Hotline or anything operated by the state - talk to a lawyer in Florida that specializes in elder law and see what can be done. I don't know how guardianship arrangements work and ultimately whether the lawyer answers to you or your grandfather, as I've never done anything related to that, so consult a lawyer in Florida. The amount of money paid will be small in relation to what your grandfather is giving away and well worth it.
Just to relay an experience in my own family related to this- some jackass life insurance salesman/huckster sold a fairly worthless annuity product to my great aunt (I don't completely understand annuities, but my understanding is that its residual value was about $6000 less than my great aunt paid for it). My own aunt (daughter of my great aunt) paid a personal visit to the huckster's office, posing as a potential client and told him in no uncertain terms was he ever to contact her mother again or she would find something to sue him for. He gave the old "I'm sorry you feel that way" schpiel but he has stayed away from my great aunt ever since. Of course, my aunt only lives one exit away from her mother, so this is a fairly manageable situation.
My 75 year-old father suffered the same thing. "Lending" money to his "friends" by the thousands. There was nothing my sister or I could say or do to convince him otherwise. The only solution we could come up with is to put him in a position where one of us would "babysit" him.
He doesn't like to be told what to do, and will often do the opposite out of spite, so we'd "gently suggest". He sold his house to move/retire down south to live with my sister and her family, his own idea. (whew!)
Even the new living arrangement is not 100%. He has a new "girlfriend". He pays when they go out and do anything because it's "the gentlemanly thing to do". My sister is on constant vigil over his money and accounts because my dad relays one girlfriend sob story after another about her son in prison, or her daughter who had a miscarriage, or her other daughter in an abusive relationship with "no way out", etc.
My sister and I can't really complain much to him about it either, because then we get NO information and the affirmation "It's MY life, I will do what I want, with who I want, and you'll have no say in it!"
It's a very delicate and situation to be in. My heart goes out the the OP and others in the same situation.
Hire a private investigator or at least try to dig up as much dirt on her and her friends as possible. That way if there's any more reason for concern, you have lots of evidence to go to the police with.
Sounds like he DOES need to be put in a nursing home and have his money managed by the family. Like others have said, have him adjudicated incompetent and take over the bank accounts.
This might constitute financial abuse and most likely elder abuse. Check out this link
http://www.ncea.aoa.gov/ncearoot/Main_Site/index.aspx
Also, check out help4srs.org for more links and references.
Not at all, its going to be unpleasant for all. But if Gramps blows his nest egg and ends up having to move in with his kiddos it will be even worse. A guardianship can be temp. and if he is paranoid about the parents you can request that the court appoint a neutral guardian.
over 10k a year is a taxable gift. Call the IRS on them, you may even get a reward..
@MercuryPDX: P.S. The "Friends" he so greatly admired, trusted, and defended through thousands of dollars of "Loans"? They don't talk to him and never return his phone calls.
This is of course the fault of my sister and I who "have turned them against him." (eyeroll)
I've heard about this before, and it's harder than you may think to get a court to declare someone legally unfit to handle their money. The court may very well agree with you that Steve is making a bad decision, but as long as Steve understands what he is doing, the court can't declare him incompetent.
@Primate: Well what was Spitzer paying? Something like 4k a night, 10K for the whole month could be a bargin.
I thought Anna Nicole was long gone.
Contact this agency [elderaffairs.state.fl.us] . They can point you in the right direction.
Unfortunately, scams like this are a rather common occurrence in Florida. You're lucky you caught it in progress; many times a person's life savings are gone before the family realizes what has happened.
Could the bank be of any help, e.g. if the parents have access to the account they may be able to ask the bank to look for the sort of patterns they look for, if they look for patterns.
@h3llc4t: Hopefully it won't seem cruel when his relatives then say "well, if you blow all your money, don't expect to move in with us or have us help out when you need money for your blood pressure medication."
Look for the Long Term Care Ombudsman in your area. They deal with all issues dealing with elders and their rights. Also, consult NPO's specializing in elder abuse. There is also nothing wrong with filing a police if you believe that the woman is making fraudulent clams and that it is costing your father money. If you talk to the local beat cop, he might just pay a visit when he sees the gardeners car and simply inquire about their name, etc... It make make the gardner prone to leave if they have a past history as a grifter.
@Jim (The Canuck One): Either way, this coming to light in a court would probably scare away the hussies.
That's right, I called 'em hussies.
He is a victim of "Elder Abuse" . There are laws against this in many states. Check also with the local Dept of Human Services. Many times a Social Worker is called in to be the intermediary.
just make sure her next request is to help pay medical bills on shattered knee caps.
I live in Florida, and there are numerous cases like this all the time, although not all of them are scams. Many more are just old men (and women) who are lonely. If the spending is getting in the way of him being able to support himself, then by all means intervene. However, if he is 'spending the inheritence', consider this: it isn't your money yet. You haven't done a damn thing to earn it. So get out of the way, let Steve enjoy whatever time he has left, and move on.
@Project_J187: Yeah, honestly... who's got bills totalling more than 10,000$/month?
Clearly the grandfather is lying to himself, as well. I'm sure he must know what's going on.
I agree that at least one of the courses of action is to spend a lot of time with him.
Well, if grandpa gets bilked out of all his assets, whose problem does he become? That's right, the OP's parents and likely the OP himself would face either having to support grandpa or tell him "tough luck... you didn't listen to us. Enjoy being broke and homeless in your 80's."
I have a relative who is mildly mentally incompetent who had the same thing happen--this relative is younger, in his 40s, and had money from his dead parents and a minimum wage job. He met a woman in her early 30s who became his "friend", her whole family was involved with this as they supposedly treated him like a member of their family while he was "friends" with this woman and a couple of her sisters. After a year or so of siphoning his money was gone and so were his new friends and family. The whole time his immediate family who was close to him was begging him to realize what he was doing and how they were taking advantage of him... but these people made him feel like he was special and he was important... it was like a drug that made him feel good so he couldn't stop, I'm the women probably probably probably performed a few nasty deeds as things went along...
Going for a visit sounds like a good idea, call it a family emergency and get some time off from work if you can. If not find out if anyone else in the family can go for a visit just to see on how he's doing.
It's more likely her using her feminine wiles to exploit the guy and him sympathizing with a "poor woman" than any actual sex.
Plenty of old people get conned by nice-sounding confidence men without needing sex to enter the picture.
Contact your local news agency which normally have reporters that investigate local frauds. Get them to do a story on your grandfather (even if he doesn't want it). You will get a bunch of people on your side and hopefully the gardener can be shamed into the open.
Work your magic behind the scenes. Get all the info on these two chicks and hand it over to the FBI and local police. They, I am sure, would be happy to take "care" of them.