If she's still doing business, why couldn't she get them their dresses? Usually if a company is having financial problems, they stop paying their vendors, not stop delivering the products to their customers.

isn't this WORSE for her business and reputation?

"Apparently, their mothers never told them how to do a chargeback."

Ben - I'm guessing your mom didn't tell you that most brides order their dresses MONTHS in advance, so it's most likely too late for a chargeback :)

@hillsrovey: Unless it's over six months old, I don't see any reason a credit card company would not do a chargeback for goods not delivered.

@hillsrovey: Ordering months in advance I understand. But paying months in advance, too?

@hillsrovey: If the product was never delivered, it is possible the credit card company would let you do the chargeback anyway.

What's an Ugg boot and why should I care?

A chargeback may them their money back, but what they probably want is their wedding dress. You pick out a dress, it takes 6 mos. for it to be delivered from Italy, you don't really have another 6 mos. if you've got the date sent, the venue reserved and the invites in the mail. Why it takes so long I don't know I failed to ask when I ordered my own dress.

@Kuonji:
Per my experience, most bridal salons require payment in full-no refunds-at the time you order.

@proskills: regulation z states that billing disputes have to be communicated within 60 days of the statement that they appear on.

[www.fdic.gov]

Couldn't the purchasers pursue a fraud or misrepresentation claim from the business' failure to disclose their potential inability to to deliver the dress due to the bankruptcy. Simply because a statute doesn't require an action doesn't mean that there isn't an implied duty in such dealings. At the very least there seems there would be a claim for any difference between what they paid for their dress and the cost to rush last minute to receive a replacement on short notice.

@mcrbpc: I had to throw down half as a deposit. Then, I had to be paid in full before they would start alterations. Of course, by the time fitting time came around, the dress had been delivered and I could visit it any time I wanted, so I had some assurance that it was mine.

@SadSam: That's the problem. If you are ordering a dress that takes 6 weeks to 6 months to arrive, you don't have a lot of time to play around if it gets screwed up. Chances are, if a bride orders a dress that takes that long to be made and shipped, she's not going to be happy with a $99 David's Bridal Special.

@XopherMV: "Ugg" is the sound a new husband makes when he realizes he's had his last BJ.

@XopherMV:
It's just an expensive pair of boots that women all across the country have. Visit any college campus and you'll see them everywhere. But yeah, I wondered what the significance of their shoes was as well.

@XopherMV: Ugg is just a namebrand of ugly ass boots that look hot on some girls but retarded on most.

@XopherMV: Uggs are ugly, expensive, and uncomfortable boots worn almost exclusively by trendy young American women.

@Robobot: Actually Uggs are really comfortable sheepskin boots that were introduced in the US about 30 years ago for skiers and surfers to wear after they come out of the snow or water. DH has a pair that he has had since 1980, and he still puts them on when he comes out of the water in the winter. That said, they are essentially "house shoes" and they do look kind of stupid and clunky when worn in public as if they were ordinary shoes. And they aren't really trendy anymore...that was soo four years ago. But I guess any day that I'm not standing in line at Lowe's behind a couple wearing matching Nascar pajamas and actual house slippers is a good day for American fashion.

@LindsayC:

You know, they should just get a tuxedo for the wife, since they're made faster.

And for the husband? The $99 David's Bridal Special, of course!

Not having been married before, and I'm a guy. So disclaimers aplenty.
But is there anyone I'd like to screw over less than a bridesmaid or a bride, right before her wedding? Jeezus, I'd rather cram ravenous, rabid wolverines down the front of my BBQ-sauce basted trousers (while commando, 'natch) than mess with a bride the day before her wedding.
Yeesh. One Darwin Award, coming up!

@XopherMV: I understand what the boots are, but I couldn't help but think that their being mentioned so blatantly wasn't a pot-shot attempting to illustrate the "type" of women that would protest about losing a wedding gown.

I'll hazard a guess that it's supposed to make the women seem like spoiled suburban fashionistas.

$4K for a dress. H O L Y C O W.

I would not like to piss off New Jersey brides-to-be. They've gotta be monsters.

@67alecto: Is that in regards to buyer/seller transaction errors or creditor/consumer billing errors? I don't see a regulation z, only 226.13(b1).

You should be able to make a chargeback at any time allowable by your credit card company, but the seller is still allowed to sue for damages within the expiration date set by the state's statue of limitations. There will be a maximum allowed time to do a chargeback set by the credit card company, but it's well over two months (I've done it before, I know).

Why did I make the mistake of thinking dressless brides was = to undressed brides. Curse you misleading headlines!!

wedding dresses are big scam anyway. They charge 10 times more for what is essentially a glorified prom dress in white. Even with a train, the cost of making most wedding dresses doesn't justify the charge.
There is the occasional exception (for instance a designer label or a custom dress with lots of detailing,) but by and large, the crap they sell at bridal shops is overpriced white prom garbage.

@Citron: I agree! That's the only plausible explanation for why that ridiculous detail was included.

@bobcatred: Only a glorified prom dress???
Oh wait. That is what my wife decided to do.

Shouldn't most of those orders have been put through to the dress companies by this time anyway? It should just be a matter of receiving the deliveries and turning them over to the brides.

I guess I don't get how chargebacks work. If the store went belly up how would there be an exsisting account for the credit card co to get their money back.It does'nt seem right that the credit card co gets screwed. What are the timeframes and such. I did 1 charge back in my life and the Bogus charge was refunded before the cc co took back the funds.

@67alecto: I used to work at CompUSA, and we had people trying to do chargebacks from purchases older than six months. So, I'm not sure about that.

@Kuonji: My wife had to pay almost half her dress in advance of a year. And even then we had a pre-wedding freak out as her dress didnt arrive till 3 weeks before the wedding and still needed to have her final fitting.

And that was GOOD from what some of her friends had told her. One of her friends didnt get her dress till a week before the wedding after ordering a year in advance.

The wedding dress industry has to be run by the biggest bunch of thieving morons I have ever seen.

@bobcatred: The stuff they sell at bridal shops beyond like Davids Bridal is all designer label... I know my wife decided she wanted a 3000 dollar wedding dress that I ended up seeing on a VH1 show.

@Trai_Dep: I was thinking the same thing. How do bridal dress makers NOT know about bridezilla?

@goodywitch: I used to shoot weddings when I had my photography business. The day of the ceremony I was always terrified that I'd make some mistake and face the wrath of Bridezilla and Mom Of Bridezilla at the same time. Fortunately, that never happened, which is why I'm still alive.

I dunno, if it was me, I'd probably be out there picketing too - regardless of the expense involved, the process of finding and ordering a wedding dress can take *so long* that the fact that this place is out of business could be a serious snag in the wedding plans.

There's a bridal shop where I lived that started having financial issues last spring, to the point where bridal and bridesmaids' dresses were taking forever to come in. It turned out that the shop had processed the payments, but had 'neglected' to pay the companies shipping the dresses. This caused a lot of headache for a good friend of mine - the shop ordered one of her bridesmaid dresses late, then when it came in four sizes too large, they tried to tell her that she had ordered it that way, and refused to pay for the (major) alterations needed to make it fit the bridesmaid. Fortunately they found an excellent tailor and everything worked out in the end.

Major shenanigans, and yet somehow they are still in business. It just increases my certainty that I'll elope when it comes time to get married. :P

Women spend way to much on this. i think its great that they lots out. something to think about.. the value of money that is. the day my gf wants a dress costing that much is the last day i will talk to her. and i will happily die alone knowing i never set 4 large on fire.

@Parapraxis: I would totally do that just because it'd make my wedding a hilarious and awesome experience for everybody.

I'm simply stunned that a business that sells wedding dresses could go bankrupt. I mean, what's the markup on those...800%? How poorly was this business run anyway?

Another reason I'm grateful I went with an off-white, off-the-rack evening dress! I handed the clerk the money, she handed me the dress and that was that. I do feel sorry for all these women and the many others screwed over every year by unscrupulous bridal merchants; weddings are stressful enough without that crap.

@proskills: They're welcome to try - but the credit card company doesn't have to do squat if they aren't notified within the federally mandated timeframe.

If you're a great customer, or you get a generous rep, then they might be willing to eat the charge, but that would be at their discretion.

@chrisjames: 226.13(b1) is the relevant section, correct. The key is what is federally required and what the credit card company actually does beyond that. Basically, if you are within all the timeframes, the merchant is screwed. The credit card company can take the money back per the visa/mc/amex/discover merchant agreement contracts.

Once it is past the 60 day timeframe, the credit card company 1)isn't required to do anything and 2)can't force the merchant to do anything.

As I mentioned in another comment, the credit card company can choose to eat the charge in the interest of preserving the customer relationship if the amount is reasonable, but then again, they can also just send back a form letter stating that you're SOL.

@SadSam:

I cannot for the life of me understand this marriage thing. You're supposed to pay $10,000 for a ring you could never sell for more than $1,000 with a stone that cost $200 and the arms of a small African child to produce. You spend $1,000 to rent a reception hall that would normally only cost $250, but has a special "wedding discount." You then pay $3,000 for a dress she'll only wear once, force 5 poor bridesmaids to spend $300 a piece on a dress THEY'LL only wear once. You get 5 groomsmen to pay $100 each to RENT a tux (and expect your 5 pot-smoking college buddies to REMEMBER to get fitted... and refitted... and pick up their tux). On top of all that, you have to arrange everything to happen on a certain day, giving any one of the 12 businesses you're dealing with the chance to $&#@ you, extort a couple hundred bucks out of you to "expedite" an order, and then require you to say, "Thank you, sir, may I have another."

It's like joining a bad frat, except it costs more, doesn't last as long, and is less likely to end with you getting laid.

I cry shenanigans.

@JulesNoctambule: Good for you! $4,000 on a dress is stupid, IMHO. Yes, I'm a guy, and I'm cheap, I admit it. But I am happily married! On my wedding day I wouldn't have cared if my bride was dressed in a prom dress or jeans and a t-shirt, she would have been just as beautiful either way.

I wish people would spend more money on wedding preparations that really matter - like counseling and stuff that would help you after. $4k on a dress... sheesh.

@frodo_35:

Here's the quick and dirty as for as Visa/MC chargebacks go (all I have ever done):

When you buy something on a credit or debit card, your bank charges your account, sends the money to the merchant's bank, and the merchant's bank credits their account.

Basically, the reverse happens with a chargeback. Your bank credits your account, charges merchant bank, and they debit the merchant's account.

Next, the merchant has the opportunity to do what's called a representment if they feel the charge is valid, and its like you are charged again. You then can go back and forth in this cycle a couple of times until one party misses a dealine or gives up and either accepts that charge (consumer) or chargeback (merchant), or the charge goes before the arbitration board at Visa or MC for a final decision.

Now, as long as the chargeback is initiated by the consumer within 60 days of the statement date of the transaction, the bank can process the chargeback through "normal channels". The chargeback process can take well over a year if it goes to arbitration. The bank also evaluates the chargeback request for its merits at the onset of the process and has the power to refuse to process a chargeback if the guidelines set by Visa or MC are not met.

Your bank also has the power to "eat" the chargeback and credit you outright and do nothing else. Chargebacks and the related process above are costly, and often times not worth the cost to them.

One more thing to note - large purchases should be done on a credit card. Reg Z has provisions that prohibit "pre-billing", meaning you cannot be charged before receipt of merchandise. However, if I recall correctly, merchants can get around this by accepting "deposits", which is probably what happened here. Debit cards have no prohibition of prebiling.

I hope this was helpful!

I rented my dress. They even did alterations. I rented the hat and veil, too.

Not only did I save money, there's now only a photo album as proof that I had terrible taste back in 80s.

I'm sorry these women lost money and their dresses, though I can't understand why so much money on an item of clothing worn once. Take a trip or use the 4K towards the down payment on a house.

the "type" of women that would protest about losing a wedding gown.

@Citron: Uh, I think ANY type of woman SHOULD protest getting ripped off that egregiously, don't you? What else should they do at this point, write them a strongly worded letter?

---------------
Dear Dress Store,
Pretty please give me the dress I paid you for so that I won't have to get married in my prom dress or something off the rack at T.J. Maxx. You should be warned: I'm taking this matter VERY SERIOUSLY.

Regards,
Ms. Everywoman
---------------

Seriously though, your statement sounds to me just like "The 'type' of man who would protest having his left nut accidentally removed in a hospital mix-up."

@ZoeSchizzel: so THAT'S where i've seen them before. I knew they looked hideous but familiar, i just haven't been able to place my finger on it all these years.

now i know!

anyway the greatest is california chicks; they were skimpy shorts and tight t-shirts, but sport those Uggs even if it's the middle of summer. it makes no sense.

@plamoni:

"It's like joining a bad frat, except it costs more, doesn't last as long, and is less likely to end with you getting laid."

Then you're doing it wrong.

The watchword my wife and I decided on when getting married was "sane".
No ice sculptures
no ridiculous 10K dress (Chinese manufactured US fitted.. <$300)
Functional bridesmaid dresses
Single deal hall/caterer/cake/rooms/ ect

I splurged on the ring. Still waiting for the debeers class action thing to finish.