Don't Worry About AMEX's Bank Yank Clause
CreditMattersBlog explains why that new AMEX contract language we wrung our hands over this morning is nothing to fret about.
Basically, the language was just an add-on to a section that said that if there is some kind of error or dispute about a debit, and AMEX gives you the credit temporarily back to your bank account, and it turns out the debit was okay in the first place, then they will take it back. Nothing about that is changing, just now you explicitly agree that that's okay.
Here's the old clause:
If we determine that there was no error, we will send you a written explanation within three business days after we finish our investigation. Upon your request we will provide you with copies of the documents that we used in our investigation. If we have provisionally recredited your Bank Account during the investigation and determine that there was no error, we will notify you of the date on which we will redebit your Bank Account, and the amount to be redebited.
Just add, "You authorize us or an agent to debit your Bank Account for this amount." to the end.
The rest of the new terms of service changes, with some of the increased APRs and fees may still be cause of concern for some customers.
American Express: "We Can Yank From Your Bank Automatically" Clause? Not Quite [CreditMattersBlog] (Photo: pnoeric)
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Comments:
The new TOS are not "blanket rates" for all AMEX cards. In comparing to my current rates, the new terms are actually much better. They lowered my APRs (as the prime rate fell) over the last few months, so I thought this was just codifying the changes. No?
What if they charge your account in error and it causes a check to bounce or something else that causes problems on your end?
are they responsible for that?
@endless:
If AmEx makes a mistake, they will take care of you. I wrote a business check from my business line of credit to my checking account. AmEx rejected it and it was returned to my bank. My bank charged me $25.
AmEx was very sorry about what happened, had no excuse for why it happened other than it was a "glitch" and reimbursed me for the $25.00. AmEx would have also sent a letter but I said that was OK.
Let them deposit as much as they want but like hell am I going to allow them to withdraw at will. I don't care how reasonable they make it sound, I control my bank account and nothing leaves without my express say-so, every time.
aikoto: So go ahead and try to stop them. If you'd actually bother to read the old clause... "If we have provisionally recredited your Bank Account during the investigation and determine that there was no error, we will notify you of the date on which we will redebit your Bank Account, and the amount to be redebited."
They already had the legal ability to withdraw money from your account. You signed to allow them this ability when you signed up for the card under that old clause. All they did was add the already implied phrase "you authorize us" to the end for people who were apparently too dense to figure out what the phrase meant.
The only thing I have withdrawn is Netflix, and if they mess up, I'll drop them like a hot potato.
I'm glad to hear this, because when I read the article the other day, I was like, "Oh, everyone says AMEX is so great and now look!" If I ever get a card, I was kind of leaning toward them.
@aikoto: If you continue to carry the card, you WILL allow it. This is not a negotiation, they have legally provided you with the information. They are not taking money from any account other than to add what was rightfully charged in the first place. basically, AMEX gives provisional credits on disputed charges, if they find you or somebody you authorized did in fact use the charge and finds against your dispute, it will be put back on your account. This has always been the policy, but now they have added they or theor agent can do so very specifically.
@aikoto:
Good one aikoto!People should never think that the credit card company will do something that will benefit the client if that "something" is not good for them!
We need to be a bit less trusting when doing business with big corporations. Remember all the fees the airlines are charging? Well, if you allow AmEx to yank money from your account after their investigation of your complaint, then you can be sure they'll debit your account for the amount in question. Plus:
$25 administrative fee
$75 their lawyers work (if yours, then is $165)
$30 notary
$3 photocopies
$5 mail (if UPS #14, if DHL $54)
$277 Insurance
$2k forensic accountant (if we use uncle Vito, then $5k
Do I need to continue?
These electronic withdrawals and deposits are easy to screw up. My employer had direct deposit a few years ago. One Friday they deposited paychecks once and withdrew them twice. So guess what - the net was a withdrawal from your bank account. Ever since then I have simply taken a check in hand and I will deposit it myself, thank you very much. Most companies that do direct deposits or electronic transactions require you to allow this permission to withdraw. That's because they get messed up REAL easy. And there is no way to "revoke" permission from someone once you have granted it other that changing your account numbers. Ohh, if they take out too much they will eventually fix you up, but until then all of your checks will bounce and it will be a huge hassle. Trsut me, while it may be tempting to allow someone to pay themselves from yoru account automatically, it is much SAFER to know exactly what and when withdrawals from your account are made.
I reached my limit of tolerance with AMEX around this time last year when they decided they were dropping their prepaid TravelerFunds Card while I was out of the country on an extended trip. Problem was that after a certain date the card could no longer be used and the balance wouldn't be refunded for at least 3 months. Since I was on the road I didn't get the snail mail letter they sent me. I had a $1,200 balance that I could neither use nor get refunded until well after Christmas. Let's just say it caused me a fair amount of hardship. I decided that I'd never prepay anything to the banksters again and that includes traveler's cheques, gift cards and cash cards. I find it ironic that AMEX have converted to a bank and gone running to the TARP with their hand out!
Yep, still mad as heck about the ARP increase. At least the CS who responded to my email was a heck of a lot more polite than the horrid Filipino woman on the phone.