Capital One Inspires Man's Loathing
Mr Bill says his latest dealings with Capital One have him "wanting to spit venom." Whence this reptilian impulse? There is apparently no structure to refinance your loan with them. They consider it makes you a new customer, and they aren't making any new loans. This takes several hours and several phone calls to figure out. There also seems to be no way to pay off a loan with a credit or debit card. This also takes several hours and phone calls to figure out. It's really just totally frustrating for Mr. Bill. "What is this, 1987?" he writes. So he's taking his business elsewhere. His misanthropic misadventure, inside...
"the dictionary defines refinance as:
1. When a business or person revises their payment schedule for repaying debt.
2. Replacing an older loan with a new loan offering better terms.
Unfortunately the word refinance does not exist over at Capital One. After spending the better part of several hours being transfered back and forth between the loan customer service dept and the new loan dept I finally wrote the to the president of Capital One, Richard Fairbanks. here is what I wrote:
My wife and I have owned a capital one credit card for several years now. We also have the loan referenced above. It was originally for 25K and it is now down to 20K. Due to some unexpected hardships we find ourselves with a credit card bill of $6000 as well as some other smaller debts. We have decided it would be in our best interests to roll of these into one new loan. We want to do this with Capital One. The term for this is refinancing, a term which apparently doesn't exist in the capital one vocabulary. When I called to try to do this I was told that loan can't be refinanced, we must apply for a brand new loan. When we spoke with the loan dept we were told that unless we were solicited by Capital One recently, we could not take out a loan. Forget for a moment, the fact that my wife has in fact received such offers in the past 2-3 months, this policy is ridiculous. Even if, because of the credit crisis I've read so much about lately, you aren't loaning out money to new customers, we are NOT new customers.
We are an existing customer who you make money off of every month. We simply want to restructure the loan.
After speaking with numerous depts, being transferred multiple times between the new loan dept and the existing loan dept we are convinced that Capital One doesn't want our money. If Capital One can't assist us in restructuring this loan then we will get a loan thru Chase, where we have our checking and savings. We will use that money to pay off the loan and pay off the Capital One credit card and Capital one will stop making money off us. If Capital One isn't interested in our business, fine. I accept that. I just want to hear someone say it. I want someone to tell me "Capital One is sorry to lose your business and all the interest we are making off your loan and credit card." I don't want to be given BS reasons about this and that, I just want you to tell me to my face "Your money is no good here"
Regardless of whether you do or do not respond or whether you can or can't help me, this loan and credit card will be paid off. The only question is what company will loan us the money and thus make interest off us? If you can give us a loan for 27K over 60 months, then let's talk. If not, I still want someone to call or respond back and tell me that you don't want our money. If you can't do this, there is no other logical explanation. You (or someone you designate) can call us at XXX XXX-XXXX. We have already applied to Chase for a loan and will have an answer within 24-48 hrs. You still have the opportunity to retain our business, but the window for that is closing quickly.
Unfortunately for Mr Fairbanks, he has completely lost us as a customer before he even had a chance to rectify things. My loan installment is due today. If you pay on their website it takes 5 days for processing and yes, you'll be hit with a late fee even if you made the payment on or before the payment date. If you go into a branch and pay it takes 2-3 days for processing. My wife wanted to make the payment over the phone with our credit union debit card. She was told she could do so over the phone and that if it took too long to process that the fee would be waived. Only problem is I had the card with me. When I came home I called in and was told you can't pay with a credit or debit card over the phone." This, despite the fact that earlier my wife had been assured that we could. I said I would go to the website and pay there. Did the man warn me that you can't pay at the website with a credit or debit card? Noooo.....
So I go to their website. You used to login by putting in your account # and last four of your SS#. Now it wants an account number. I'm baffled so I call us customer service. My wife had previously today told them to permanently note the account that they had permission to speak to me (she's the primary, I'm the co-signer). Tech support tells me there is no such note and he can't help me. I speak to a manager who sees the note in question and is happy to help. He tells me to go the capitalone.com, click on personal loans and that I should then see a tab marked access account. Nope, no such tab. After 5 minutes of going back and forth, he asks "Are you at capitalone.com?" No, I'm at kissmyass.com! I tell him to stop asking stupid questions or get me someone who can help me. This MANAGER transfers me back into queue for the same dept. That's right the manager can't help me, so he's going to have a subordinate help me! The person who answers explains that the process has in fact changed and I have to click on enroll in online banking. Apparently the manager is a moron.
I finally create an account... and discover you can't pay with a credit or debit card online.
I call up and ask if this is true and the representative happily confirms this to be true.
Did I mention that in calling them yesterday and today I was cutoff at least a half dozen times by their VRU? When you enter your account #, password, mother's maiden name, shoe size and penis size, you finally have to hit zero to speak to someone. At that point, the VRU transfers you internally and someone at Capitalone screwed up the VRU programmed because they transfer you to a nonexistent number and you get that annoying local telco "do-do-DOOO! The number you have dialed is invalid..." recording. So at this point after the incompetent management, the inability of the people to know their job well enough to tell me how I can and can't pay my bill, and the fact that oh yea —I CAN'T PAY MY BILL WITH A CREDIT CARD! What is this? 1987?— I am done with Cap One. I am dumbfounded by the ineptitude on both the frontline level as well as their policy towards customers.
as a a famous man once said "They are the suckiest bunch of sucks who ever sucked."
I guess they really don't want my money after all. And even if they did it wouldn't matter. I don't want them to have my business. Once I get my new loan I'll pay off the loan and their CC and cancel the CC and they can keep their miles. Yes they had the best rewards program, but honestly, who cares about rewards when you get such crappy service?
-Mr Bill'
(Photo: yksin)
UPDATE: Bill would like to add the following clarification: "I was attempting to make a payment using a debit card linked to a credit union savings acct purposely established for emergencies. Since there is no checking account # I can't pay via check. I could have gone to the credit union, gotten a check deposited it in my bank and waited a few days for it to clear, then made the payment via my checking account. I couldn't do any of that that day since the credit union was closed. Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't trying to pay with another credit card. I've had a car loan where I could pay using a debit or credit card, so I naturally assumed I would have the same option. Not to mention that their representatives told me I could pay that way. I would not have been so mad if they had told me up front "no you can't pay that way". I would've been annoyed but not hyper angry.
As for the idea of restructuring or refinancing I realize I may get a new, possibly higher interest rate. I never stated I expect a lower one. I have no issue if the interest is higher as my monthly obligations will be less overall. My issue is their poor service, their broken VRU and the fact that they were uninterested in maintaining me as a customer. ""
This is a test using rich text formatting and html links. It's the generic "company" ad that should appear on all posts with the Company category if they don't have an ad attached to a specific company.
Post a comment
Comments:
This is what happens when a credit card company decides to buy out banks and expand its business w/o actually understanding the needs of banking customers. I was in a new capital one bank that over the last 20 years has switched from a local bank to greenpoint than to capital one (most of the staff was retained over the years). The staff there were speakin amongst themselves about how capitol one does not offer any choices when it comes to loans and mortgages. STAY AWAY! capitol one is out there solely to make money and they really could care less if people are negatively effected.
I've never had a loan that I could pay off with a credit or debit card, it always had to be a checking account. They don't want to pay the fees, and I can't say that I blame them.
No one can pay their credit card bill with another credit card, at least not without paying a few percent as fee. What, you think that people who take cc's don't pay a fee? Get real.
This sounds like a lot of whining to me, and judging from his tone, it looks like he's the loser here.
All those that have Capital One Bank as the next bank to fail, please form a line to the left. Thank you.
@kmn842: actually i can pay my credit card bill with my debit card without any fee. thanks hsbc.
i remember when my mom got sick and had to stop working for a bit and then her mother died my parents paid a mortgage with a credit card for a couple months while they were sorting out inheritance and everything just because it was easier. i also had a personal/car loan that i was allowed to pay with a debit or credit card in the past.
@zarex42: this was supposed to go here.
"actually i can pay my credit card bill with my debit card without any fee. thanks hsbc.
i remember when my mom got sick and had to stop working for a bit and then her mother died my parents paid a mortgage with a credit card for a couple months while they were sorting out inheritance and everything just because it was easier. i also had a personal/car loan that i was allowed to pay with a debit or credit card in the past. "
@kmn842: Plus having to deal with chargebacks. I thought it was very common to not be able to pay off a loan with a credit card.
I think the only way he could potentially manage to pay off a loan or cc with another cc would be to use courtesy checks.
@Ben Popken: I find that pretty interesting as I read it as the same thing and it inspired me to make meatloaf for dinner tonight. I hate planning dinner, so thank you, Consumerist!
Bottom line, the complaint is:
"Capital One won't write me a new loan!"
Why are you so irate that they don't want to extend you a new loan? Their money, their call.
Also, it's not at all unusual for banks to not allow you to make the payment on one loan by drawing on another.
Capital One sucks ass. We learned the very hard way that "fixed" doesn't mean fixed. They can eat shards of glass. I hate them as much as this guy.
Thankfully we now don't owe anything other than student loans but their arbitrary interest rate shenanigans delayed our debt-free date by quite a bit.
I don't know, there are a lot of legitimate horror stories concerning Capitol One screwing people over, but I'm not sure this is one of them (apart from the 5 day processing time, wtf).
Sounds like he's just super pissed that they wouldn't adjust the terms of the loan, which he agreed to.
I had a credit card a few years ago that I wanted them to lower my interest rate on, but they wouldn't. It was annoying, but I didn't go batshit over it.
It's nice when companies work with us to give us better terms, but when your borrowing money (especially a sum like $27,000), you need to understand upfront that their under no obligation to change the terms when you want them to. It seems like Mr. Bill felt he was entitled to better terms.
I think the point is that the OP was given a huge rigamorole about the whole thing and that the company wasted his time in not being upfront with him. So what the OP didn't know these things up front? Why should he have to make so many phone calls to find out?
yea, i agree, all my credit cards require a bank payment. i think thats 'credit cards 101'.
Furthermore, personal loans aren't credit cards that you can keep increasing your limit on. It's not convenient, but, i understand why they don't just *refinance* your loan.
And let me tell you, you will *NOT* have better luck with Chase. Chase and BoA are the 2 banks on my "Ill kill myself before i deal with them again" list, as a result of horrid customer service, ridiculous fees, and overall deceptive practices.
I concur with Capital One sucking. My short horror story: Applied for a No Hassle Cash Back card, from one of their offers in the mail, because I thought, "Nice. 12 months of 0% interest, and it's a reward card". Anyway, I got the welcome letter (Welcome to your No Hassle Cash Back Rewards Card) and thought all was good; until months later when I noticed I wasn't actually getting any points. After much phone tag with Pakistani, and letters sent to Utah, AND finding a number to call here (how I became addicted to Consumerist, in fact...) I was finally told, "Sorry, sir, we sent you the wrong letter. Your card isn't a no hassle reward card".
Despite that being what I signed up for. Oh, and my credit score's only 750ish, so I realize I'm not exactly prime material, but, still... screw 'em.
You know who seems good? Discover. When I called to sign up with them, I got English speakers who seemed to actually want my business.
/Random.
It seems to me that he has confused his terminology. He is not refinancing his loans but he is looking to consolidate multiple loans into one. That would require opening a new account to pay off his 'other' debts and close the old account
@gnortenjones: especially on a loan of $27,000 that he has apparently only paid $7,000 of, if I read the article correctly, and seems to want to also finance the $6,000 in outstanding CC bills... I'm not really surprised, either.
Why not just shop around for a better rate at another bank?
Lesson to be learned: don't let yourself get $6,000 in the hole on your credit card, idiot.
If this guy is already $27k in debt and is experiencing "hard-ships" that require him to quickly run up his creditcard debt to $6k, why on earth does he think that Chase is going to offer him a $27k loan?
Also, why is he ignoring the second definition of "refinance?" Despite Mr. Bill's protestations to the contrary, refinancing to combine the two loans is, in fact, a new loan.
Although I do not dispute that Cap One sucks (I left them 2 years ago), in this case I think this is a case of the OP trying to make his problem into Cap One's problem.
Banks are under no obligation to re-finance, just because times are tough. It might be in their best interest, but they aren't required to. There may even be a regulatory reason they cannot do so under these circumstances.
The beauty of the free market is that we vote with our dollars. If you don't like the way a business treats you, you are free to find one who does business on terms that are more to your liking. The OP obviously knows that, and is pursuing another solution. You're wasting your effort writing to them.
@zarex42: This isn't about a credit card, this is about a loan.
Way to read the story. Try to not be so ignorant next time you feel like shouting your mouth off and calling someone with a valid issue a whiner.
@drdom: I'm reasonably new to consumerist. I have seen the acronym "OP" several times in reference to the person who has written in to tell a tale of consumer woe. Could you please tell me what OP means?
Thanks!
In the spirit of Simpsons quotes:
"Capital One fail customer? That unpossible!"
I stopped using my Capital One card after their rewards program became stagnant. I'm now happily using my Chase Freedom card and awaiting a fat $250 check for using $200 in rewards. I expect Chase to fail me someday; I just hope it isn't soon...
@drdom: I have a feeling that we wouldn't be hearing about this if Capital One's phone system and customer service were up to par. Those two factors seem to be what pushed this consumer over the edge, and frankly they should have been emphasized instead of the refinancing attempt.
@alexburrito: Normally it means "Original Poster." On the consumerist comments, it usually is referring to whoever originally sent in the article -- "mr Bill" in this case.
@drdom:
My guess is the issue isn't regulatory, but more that they don't want to be increasing their debt exposure to Mr. Bill. Right now, he owes them $26k. If they roll all of that $26k into a new loan and pay off his card, then he'll owe them $26k, and have $6k in available credit - he could owe them $32k in a heartbeat. In this environment, I don't think they want the extra $6k in exposure.
Ok, ok, you can all criticize the guy for getting pissed off. I know from personal experience that talking to credit card companies on the phone makes you want to shoot yourself. Between the auto-menus and the reps who say "You can do X" (and then X turns out to be something illegal, impossible, or that they have a rule against on the books) or "I will do Y" and then proceed to DO NOTHING...I am sympathetic.
Sounds, though, like he essentially needs to quit complaining and proceed to get a loan from someone else. Plenty of people, even now, are trying to get me to transfer my balances to them; if his credit is so bad that this is not true of him, CapOne's customer support is the least of his problems.
Sounds like Capital One doesn't care "what's in his wallet?". The service noted in this post is awful. It's a wonder they remain in business when you figure how much they have spent in telephone and support time dealing with this one issue, simply because they don't want to deal with it.
Having said all that, something doesn't fit in this story. The OP indicates he couldn't use his debit card online -- fine, then why didn't he just use the checking account said debit card is attached to, to pay the bill online? Really shouldn't be a problem if he indeed was trying to use a debit card. My guess is he's over extended and trying to use a credit (not debit) card to pay a loan, which is rarely, if ever a good idea.
In either event, Cap1 is stupid to ignore this guy as he's crying out for help. Would they rather help with a refinance that may allow him to repay, or see him end up in Bankruptcy and on a long list of bad debts they can't collect on.
@Ben Popken: you seem to be becoming more and more rude to people posting responses. I know this is a Holy Site and all but some people come here just to post a comment. Said comment may not be what you want to hear or what you were expecting but at least they are coming to a site that keeps you writing.
Just saying...
@kmn842: I once moved an 8.9% car loan to a credit card under a 2.9% balance transfer offer. I'm not sure whether or not the banks look at a balance transfer differently from a 'charge', but this particular instance of changing a loan to a credit card balance worked out very well for me.
I mentioned this the other day, but I went to do a streamlined refinance on my car loan to get a reduced interest rate. They told me that if I refinanced right now, then my interest rate would go up. I couldn't believe it. I haven't missed a payment on anything and I don't know how they can justify wanting to raise my rate.
If you're unsatisfied with the service you're getting, why would it be such a priority to get a response from them on a refinance?
If you really can get the new loan on your terms, good for you. Once you get your new loan, I guarantee you will get offers from Capital One again. That has happened to me twice now...after the completion of a refinance, I was sent info on loans from competitors. Hey guys, if you wanted me, maybe sell to me beforehand!
Oh and the payment thing to me seems like...pay your bills on time. I'm not saying I am perfect. I pay late fees sometimes. It's my fault, not the bank's fault.
If Capital One sees you racking up debt, why should they have to add more risk by taking on your debt?
It's like saying that a good friend that you're attracted to should take a chance and go out with you. You know each other, and have a good relationship. Just because all that is true, doesn't mean that they are attracted to you too.
@b01000100: What do you expect? It seems like with the declining economy, customer service is getting worse everywhere you go.
When you tell anyone that you are "kissmyass.com" when they are just making sure you are at the right place you deserve this kind of service.
@Ben Popken: Apparently Roz has been a victim of the downsizing? Otherwise I think you'd be officially slapped down for being a dick and not contributing to a discussion in some way. So much for the commenting code.
I have a credit card with Cap One that's I'm desperately trying to transfer somewhere else. You have to make your online payments by 3pm (which used to be 12midnight, which make sense since it's an AUTOMATIC, ELECTRONIC TRANSFER from my bank account, then they changed it to 5, which was reasonable, but now 3pm???) on the due date for it to be on time, which is ridiculous. God forbid your due date is on a weekend. Their service has been so awful I can't stand it.
@gnortenjones: This goes to show how much these companies suck.
Really, how long does it take to process payments online? When I post a payment, if YOUR piece of shit system that's probably a horribly coded cobbled together amalgamation of various old systems written over 10 years ago takes more than a few minutes to process it, then TOO FUCKING BAD! I've paid. I've posted payment. I've attempted to give you money. Unless my payment fails, I've paid on time.
Any company that can't get its internal phone system to work worth a fuck needs to publish the 20, 30, 100, however many numbers it takes to take a person to whatever department he wants to go to. These "punch 40 buttons, finally talk to somebody to transfer you to India to disconnect you or sell you products" stories are dime-a-dozen now. How do these companies not learn?
Isn't Capital One one of the banks munching on my tax dollars right now?
Yeah, I can keep going... but this guy obviously hit every single one of the things wrong with giant companies these days. I don't blame him at all!
UHH HELLO, IT'S A *LOAN*, OF COURSE YOU CAN'T PAY A LOAN WITH A CREDIT CARD, THAT'S CALLED A "BALANCE TRANSFER", LOOK THAT ONE UP IN THE DICTIONARY. Sorry, I usually don't blame the consumerist, and scold those who do, but come on, you can't say you've paid your loan by simply transferring the debt from one loan to another. If this were the case you could take the money from the loan, pay your credit card off, then turn around and pay the loan with the credit card and just keep juggling the debt where neither company actually ever gets paid or makes any interest off of you.
Cap 1 sucks bigtime. I canceled years ago when 2 monthes in a row payments were mailed 2 weeks before due yet they both posted 1 day late. WTF After the 1st time I said it could happen so I ate the fee. The next month when it happened again I called cust service and they treated me like a dead beat when I had never made a late payment in the 3 prev years since I had the card.
They refused to retract any fees even when I offered to send copies of the checkes dated weeks before the due date. I sent a check for the balance in full when the next bill came. F THEM
I initially read the headline as:
"Capital One Inspires Meat Loafing"