Although I have not had this particular issue with Buy.com I've have issues ranging from wrong product being shipping and their inability to process rebates. After the latter I decided to take my business elsewhere.

By the canned response it sounds like Buy.com has had quite a few problems with this. That is not the way to do business, I don't plan on buying anything from them in the future.

Two side notes,

1, LaCie drives are junk, I work in an IT shop that used to use them and they suck.

2, go to Newegg for this stuff even if you have to pay a bit more, they have great customer service.

This post does not indicate:
What shipping company was used?
Was proof of delivery obtained?
Did the customer waive shipping insurance?

Although I am not a lawyer, Regarding buy.com's response, I'd like to use a legal technical term "bullshit".

If the item left buy.com's warehouse and was not received, then a shipping claim for lost goods is required.

The person (company) who selects, contracts & pays for the freight is the party responsible for filing the claim.

buy.com is obligated to file a freight claim on your behalf.

I can't believe people still shop here. Research companies before you buy and lose money.

@SkokieGuy:

This is correct. An item is usually not considered free on board (out of the seller's responsibility) unless the seller paid for shipping, and usually insurance.

That said, though, legally this would likely be the shipping company's responsibility, not Buy.com's, though that depends on the shipping company's shipping contracts.

Working for a 3rd party hardware/software reseller that provided all goods for Verizon this is pretty standard practice. We bought from suppliers in the hardware market and then resold to Verizon, but if something showed up as delivered or left at location, or signed by someone that wasn't the intended recipient I would have to open up a claim with the shipper, DHL, UPS, etc. not the distributor that provided the product.

If the customer didn't want to wait for that claim to be researched, which can take forever, then I'd have to tell them to place a new order with the possiblity of receiving a credit eventually for the lost item.

I really don't understand why people use PayPal as a payment method (not being critical, I actually don't understand it). PayPal never seems to offer the protection of a credit card, especially in this case. This could be resolved either by a chargeback or by the insurance most credit cards offer on theft. I repeatedly read about PayPal siding against the consumer or scammee.

Yes I understand that there are also issues with credit cards. Just not as may as with PayPal.

@BoomerFive: Thats odd because my 2 year old refurb lacie drive is still around and kicking along with my other 500gb lacie drive.

One uses a Samsung drive and the other a Seagate. Unless the controller takes a shit I believe the lacie drives are a pretty good value. Not to mention they aren't hideous compared to the seagate and other name brand external drives.

And this sucks because I have been watching that same drive on buy.com For some reason buy.com fluctuates prices more than a cheap hooker addicted to meth. I watched a drive for about 4 months and it changed prices in upwards of $200 when I added all the price changes. They must have a script that changes an items price from ~5% to ~10% that runs daily.

I had the exact same problem (with my one and only purchase from buy.com), but was fortunate that it was for a much lower cost item.

The tracking number they sent me wasn't a valid tracking number, but they claimed they were able to verify delivery. My packages are sent to my office, and I've never had any other problems in over 10 years.

Their response was the same "it's not our problem".
My response was "enjoy your chargeback".

Did you fund the paypal purchase with a credit card?

My PayPal account is linked to my credit card. If a credit card was used via PayPal, then the credit card company should be notified and the charge should be disputed. Even if PayPal won't do anything to address the problem, the credit card company *will* by doing a chargeback for the item not received.

@hunter3742:

However, because the payment to the shipping company was from Buy.com, they are the shipping company's customer, not Eric. Buy.com needs to address this issue with the carrier.

The only time I've bought anything from buy.com was an external hard drive that was DOA. Neither the manufacturer (western digital) nor buy.com would honor the 1 year warranty so I did my very first ever chargeback and got all my money returned. Thanks consumerist.
PS. buy.com's habit of shipping non-working products combined with their abysmal customer service really should be enough to get them excluded from the morning deals post.

Buy.com's day has come and gone. Time for them to move on.

@SkokieGuy: My understanding is that the Uniform Commercial Code means that terms default to FOB Origin, which does indeed put the buyer on the hook for lost items (one legal reason behind itemizing shipping separately so that the buyer has clearly paid for it). Most companies don't insist on this because it's idiotic and self-sabotaging, a leftover from days when shipments weren't really retail-to-individual-customer business.

Even if buy.com can legally do this, of course, they're jackasses for it.

@BoomerFive: I'm gonna have to agree with post_break. I have two LaCie Ethernet Big Disk 1TB drives and the drives themselves are pretty rock solid. I only had to replace the AC adapter when it fried on me, but their customer service and warranty are top-notch IMHO.

I usually don't like Buy.com or Amazon.com for that matter, as I'd like the option or the imposition of having a signature delivery, even if it costs extra. There are always too many holes or cracks in a given system, so eliminating or minimizing the added possibilities will always give me peace of mind, and that's worth more to me than the costs.

Though I haven't purchased anything from them during the past six or so months, I have purchased numerous items from BUY.com over the years and have never had anything but stellar service from them, rebates included.

Can we all agree to avoid any company with the words Best or Buy in their title? I am going to be more cautious than that. I am going to be suspicious of the letter B.

@beyondthetech: I'd add that your hard drive shopping needs should not be fulfilled from Newegg: they don't handle OEM drives properly, wrapping them in big-cell bubble wrap only after they've been tossed and turned about in inventory. I ordered a big bunch from them in one shot and 50% were DOA. Newegg didn't give me any hassles about returning them but I bought my replacements from ZipZoomFly at comparable cost to Newegg and the replacements were shipped in styrofoam mailers specifically sized for hard drives.

Keep in mind that the recipient has NO relationship with the delivery company as he/she has not paid them to do anything.

9 times out of 10, a shipping company won't even discuss "missing parcel location" options with the recipient, and will only do so with the person who paid them to do something with it.

I don't purchase from buy.com because they charge sales tax for California buyers.

Agree that this is a crappy company policy.

However, the uniform commercial code supports Buy.com in this matter. Pretty much, anything ordered via shipping is freight on board.

Good companies will go above and beyond, so now we as consumers have this inaccurate impression that that's what the law is and that that's the way things work.

Luckily there are a lot more good evil corporations out there rather than bad evil corporations (because it's always posted here that corporations are evil).

We recently had a similar experience with a seafood company from Florida. As a gift, we were sent some fresh fish via overnight. Our boxes are delivered to our complex office if we aren't home. The shipping company claimed it was delivered but there was no box at the office. Eventually, we determined that the seafood company shipped it to our old address in their file. They sent out another package at no charge to anyone. So, it worked out fine for us.

The best part: the shipping guy apparently left the box, clearly marked "Keep refrigerated! Perishable!" on the front stoop of our old building, in 70 degree sunny weather.
I really hope that someone claimed it because otherwise that was going to make for some awful stink in a day or two.

1) Use credit card.
2) Chargeback goodness!

Isn't buy.com owned by ebay?

Hello all-

I'm the Eric in the post above (thanks for picking up the story). Anyway here's some additional info. The carrier in question is FedEx Ground. According to the FedEx web site the product was delivered on October 30th with a note that read, "Left at front door. Signature Service not requested."

Now I do not recall ever having the option of choosing a signature, the only shipping choice I can recall being offered involved timing (3-5 days, overnight, etc.). I have never had any issue having packages shipped to my house. My wife works from home and was in fact home at that exact time (that's nap time for my daughter!). Other carriers (UPS) have left packages and we've never had any issue. The fact that it was mischief night increases the chance that someone swiped it, but who can tell?

In the claim rejection they wrote "In many cases, we will file a claim with any appropriate third parties. If additional information comes to light as a result, we will reconsider our findings and inform you."

However there is no information on how to check status, what the claim actually says, and how I can state my own case. Subsequent emails to customer service gave me that quote from the "company policy" and the words:

"However, although we always try to do
everything in our power to resolve every customer issue, unfortunately
at this point we are unable to assist you further in this matter."

It's entirely possible that the package was delivered to the OP's doorstop and the delivery person never rang the bell. Whenever I get something shipped (via any of the major carriers) it seems like they are racing to get in the truck and leave before anyone can open the door.

I know they're trying to keep moving and make their deliveries as quickly as possible, but they (at least the drivers here) don't even ring the doorbell before they sprint back to their truck anymore, because then you might open the door before they're gone and hold you up.

I happened to be near my front door when I heard the UPS truck pull up outside the last time I was expecting a package and I opened the door before he even made it up the driveway. He actually looked stunned for a second, and then sad that he had to deal with a person instead of just going on his way. I get that they're in a hurry most days, but not to want to put the package in my hands so I can wave and say thank you just seems sad.

(And no, I didn't hold him up. He handed me the package and turned around, and I said thank you to his back.)

I once got an EMPTY box from Buy.com. A book I ordered was supposed to be inside. They ignored my emails and eventually I did a chargeback with Citi. Never heard about it again.

@kathyl: Ugh, "hold you up" should have been "hold them up".

I'm calling BS on this "policy". Though I have only ordered one item from buy.com, a large paper shredder, I am almost 100% positive that a signature was required upon delivery.

To have a company shipping expensive, highly-stealable items like hard drives is ridiculous and inexcusable. On top of that, a shipping company should NEVER be allowed to leave items outside of a building. They should be required by law to take the item back, and either a) make you retrieve it, or b) charge a small fee for redelivery.

Meg outlined some perfect resolution avenues to this problem. I would add before you do anything else, file a claim with the Better Business Bureau. If all else fails, a chargeback is entirely appropriate in this case. I'm sure your credit card company wouldn't like hearing that you ordered merchandise with their card and didn't receive the item.

Under the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code), buy.com would be considered a merchant, and under UCC 2-509, "where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goods by carrier, (b) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carier. (b) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are there duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery."

Basically, once buy.com provides the good(hard drive) to the carrier(shipper) and provides you with the documentation to accept delivery (tracking information), the risk of loss transfers to you the buyer.
I am sure that you can fight this without having to initiate any formal litigation, just be a pain in their ass for now and don't do business with them in the future. The beauty of the UCC is that once you get burned by it, you never deal with those people again. Most transactions never have to go to this point, so if you are doing business with someone and they resort to this, then you know not to continue business with them, as they are not acting reasonably. There is a fine line between having the law on your side and doing the right thing. Here, it would be in buy.com's best interest to honor the consumers sale, but they have the law on their side here. Best of luck

@post_break: I believe LaCie has a history of utilizing Hitachi Desk[Death]Star drives in their products. The DeathStar drives are aptly named for their poor performance and inclination to outright fail.

@crackblind: PayPal allows you to use a credit card as the method of payment, so by using PayPal you not only have the option of doing a chargeback with your actual credit card company, but you can also take advantage of PayPal's buyer protection by filing a claim for either INR (Item Not Received) or SNAD (Significantly Not As Described.)
Have a look at the eBay forums and you will see that PayPal generally sides with the buyers in INR and SNAD cases.
I'm no fan of PayPal, but those are protections they offer to buyers using their payment service.

If you wanted to take the time, you could sue the carrier and say they never delivered it. They would be required to show proof that they did. If at that point they could not produce evidence of that delivery they would be SOL. They would have to bring their driver into court to testify etc etc.

I've been clearing out my old [like two years old] tech stuff out of my collection to make for a lighter move and get a little extra cash. I've had people use Buy.com to suggest I offer my items at a lower price. I suggest to them that they:

a) Read The Consumerist
b) Check seller ratings for Buy.com
c) If they aren't happy with my prices go to Buy.com and "cross your fingers" nothing happens.

There are two ways Best Buy is off the hook: If they can show a signature, or if they can prove you have an agreement with the carrier to leave packages without a signature. Unless Best Buy can show one of those two things, you have a valid claim.

Here's where it gets sticky: If the carrier is showing delivery, the claim will be through the carrier. But you can't file the claim yourself, since Best Buy is the shipper. The carrier won't even talk to you about it. You're going to have to convince Best Buy to file the claim. This is one reason why I would ALWAYS recommend using a normal credit card over any other payment delivery service: your protections are better. With a credit card, it's simple: No delivery? Chargeback. No signature? Chargeback. You get your money back, NO MATTER WHAT, unless the vendor can prove it was actually delivered TO YOU, or unless they can prove you allowed the package to be delivered under less secure circumstances.

Buy.com can claim it's not their problem all they want, but as many of the other stories on the Consumerist show, that doesn't make it true. They had a responsibility to ensure that it was delivered securely, and you did not agree to allow it to be left on your front porch. Filing a claim with PayPal is a good next step, and I hope it is successful. But in the future, ALWAYS use a credit card if possible.

@DriscollBlackbird: Buy .com will be required to PROVE they gave the item to the delivery company. Then the fight goes to the delivery company. Buy.com can not say, we shipped it, without any valid proof of that. Fed ex et al can not say we delivered without valid PROOF of that.

@GothamGal: @beyondthetech:

I agree with the original commenter, that Lacie drives are awful. I'm pretty sure your Lacie drives are working fine - I don't expect *every* one to fail.

But if you work in an environment where you are around *a lot* of the same drive, it's amazing to see the failure rate. I would estimate 20% failure - which explains why yours are ok but is still pathetic and un-reliable.

I don't trust my data on Lacie drives, and the comment about the fact that other drives look 'hideous' made me laugh. I love the aesthetics of my Macs as much as the next person, but I ultimately pick my equipment based on quality and cost/benefit - thus Dell monitors over Apple and Synology backup drives (they look crap but are built from the bottom with open source technology to aid recovery)

@DriscollBlackbird:
@johnnya2:
This is the correct response. Once Buy.com gave it to the shipper, they're off the hook. Litigating it with Buy.com would be a waste of money, as the tracking number along with an affidavit from the guy in shipping saying he gave the box to the shipper.
Going after the shipper is another story. As one commenter already said, if the shipping company has a signature on file, it's open and shut, OP loses. If they can produce a signature from delivery, OP loses. However, if the shipper can only produce an affidavit from the delivery man saying the package was left on the doorstep, it becomes more complicated. My guess is it would turn on the reasonableness of the practice of leaving packages like that. That said, I suspect that the shipping company would have the edge here, as it's common practice with many of the companies to leave packages without signature, even USPS does it. I wouldn't say that's it's completely clear the OP loses here, but I suspect the deck is stacked against him. One could easily argue that the availability of shipping insurance to cover situations like this offers an alternative to the risk of loss.
All of that said, it's pretty crappy that Buy.com is not taking care of the customer, but I suspect given the tightening of profits, we'll see more stories like this where companies won't take the profit/revenue hit to go above and beyond when not legally required to do so.

@crackblind: Only thing I can think of is if someone gets paid in PayPal, he might just use the money in his account to purchase something, instead of redeeming the money. Otherwise, I agree, can't see why this is even an option.

@balthisar: I had a similar, but much more positive experience with Amazon. I know they can have their issues, but they really came through for me in a situation that was totally and utterly MY fault.

I ordered a gift to ship to my best friend. She never received it, yet it showed up in the tracking system as having been received. I called Amazon, and no questions asked, they resent the package at no charge to me. Well, after all of that, it turned out that I had used an incorrect address for my friend. I called Amazon and apologized for my mistake. What did they do? They sent a THIRD package to my friend's correct address, at no charge to me.

Now THAT is great service!

I was one of the consumers caught up in the great Buy.com monitor fiasco of '99. They will never get my business, and it pains me to see their "deals" listed on the Consumerist every morning.

They were awful then, and I've seen nothing to suggest they've improved in the last nine years.

@Gnuwave:

Same comment. Over 5000 spent (4 desktops, 1 laptop, 6mp3 players, 3 cameras, 2 buffalo external raid servers, software, etc) in the last 7 years and never a problem.

@SkokieGuy: It may well be their policy that once they give it to UPS (or whoever), they decide that it's your problem. Regardless, a non-shitty company would attempt to help the customer: "Sir, we show that UPS delivered the package at 5:12p.m. on October 30 to your address, here is the tracking number, have you contacted them?"

@rick_in_texas:

Forgot to add. I bill to my home but have it sent to my office. We have a mail dept that signs for all packages. 3 fellow employees have had problems.

1) newegg - delivered to wrong house...never received. They gave him a refund.
2) amazon - broken product. Filed claim with shipper.
3) ebay - got ripped off by scammer. Paypal told him tough luck.

@kathyl:

My buddy had this happen with UPS before. He was waiting on a computer part from Newegg.com. He works nights, so he was at home during the day, waiting. He had checked the status with the tracking number and it showed that the item was out for delivery. He checked it about an hour later, and it showed as delivered. He opened his front door, and the package was sitting there. He said that he knows he didn't miss the knock because he was sitting at his computer waiting for the package the whole time.

Good old judge Judy says if you do not rec a package then the contract has not been fufiled so Charge back and put the burden of proof on them. I bet they file a lost claim if its their money. But first get a few emails that state we can no longer assist you when you request they start a lost claim with fed ex.

@BoomerFive: I also don't know about Newegg's customer service. My roommate ordered a hard drive from them, and they say it was delivered on a Thursday, and so does the tracking, but the drive wasn't there because the delivery guy left it at the door of his apartment. Apparently someone walked off with it, and now Newegg says they will "investigate" and get back to him, but they won't refund him or send him a new one until the investigation concludes, which they say will take 2-4 weeks.

My first and only experience with Buy.com was something of the opposite. I found a good price on a graphics tablet and went ahead and bought it. Several weeks later I was sent an email explaining that the item was out of stock and was given the option to wait until they received more, or cancel the order. While the price was good, I was tired of waiting and opted to cancel the order. I then bought a newer version of the tablet from a local retailer.

Several week later however, a package arrived for me from Buy.com. Sure enough, it was the tablet I had originally ordered. Rather concerned that the order had not been canceled, , I checked my credit statement to make sure I hadn't been charged for it. I then contacted Buy.com and confirmed that my order had indeed been canceled and was directed to return the item using the enclosed return form.

Having confirmed the order was canceled, I sent the item back and considered the matter closed. Yet two weeks later, another package arrived from Buy.com with *yet* another graphics tablet.

While on principal I don't mind companies sending me expensive stuff I didn't ask for if I don't have to pay for it, the whole experience convinced me that Buy.com customer service was completely incompetent and I've never bought anything from them since.

I still have that extra graphic tablet however....

@frodo_35:
Good things Judge Judy is the ultimate arbitrator of the law. And really, most of the stuff that shows up on her show is person to person, not business to person. The UCC, at least the relevant provisions, doesn't generally apply to person to person transactions. In this situation, Judge Judy isn't the Boss Applesauce.