Newman: Maybe we should stop and get some snakes. It might be a good investment.
Kramer: That's not an investment. That's a loss.

This, along with the "low flow shower head" idea from yesterday, makes two Seinfeldian articles in as many days.
I love it!

Wait - returning cans from out of state is fraud?!? Funny, there's no "This can can only be returned if you bought it in the state" on any of the bottles I've ever seen.

Solution: EVERY state should have bottle refunds.

Added Solution: Make it include more than just carbonated drinks. Include ice tea, lemonade, bottled water, etc.

First of all, if a significant number of the containers are coming in from out of state, how can they guestimate that they are recovering 97%. Also, beer cans should have some sort of tax stamp embossed into the top (or bottom) indicating their state of origin.

I'm from Michigan. I cannot imagine anything lamer or more cheap-ass than trying to take advantage of a state's good recycling laws - and they are good, EVERYBODY recycles cans and bottles there. But these out-of-state asswipes didn't pay that deposit when they bought their cans, so they seriously need to suck it. I'm not sure it counts as fraud, but douchebaggery, for certain. I mean seriously, is there a state with a worse economy than Michigan? All these Wisconsinites and Indianans know that perfectly well. Oh please, take your cans there and steal some more of the money they DON'T have!

@El_Fez: While it may not technically fit the legal definition of fraud (IANAL, so I don't know) it's certainly a bit shady. When you buy a case of soda for $3.50, you get charged $3.50, plus $0.05*12 = $0.60 deposit. When you redeem those cans, you get your $0.60 back.

If you buy in a $0.05 state, but redeem in Michigan, you are earning $0.60. Everyone else -- those who both buy and redeem in $0.05 states, and those who both buy and redeem in Michigan -- break even. But if you're the guy who heads to Michigan to redeem, you've earned money, and it has to come from somewhere.

Similarly, most grocery stores that redeem coupons have some sort of fine print stating that they don't combine offers or won't redeem a coupon for more than the item is worth, so that they don't owe you at the end of the transaction.

@nicemarmot617: I know it doesn't change your point much, but you can't use just any can. It can only be a can from a state with a 5 cent deposit. Cans with no deposit at all won't work (as far as I know). Barcodes read differently or something.

@nicemarmot617: Wow, I don't even know what sarcastic comment to say to that whole comment of yours.

@nidolke: I've got a Coke Zero bottle here in GA. It says on it "ME-VT-CT-MA-NY-DE-HI-OR 5¢"

@El_Fez: Yes, it is. The ten cents you get back isn't a refund; it's a deposit. If you look on the can or bottle you buy in Michigan, it will have it noted somewhere on it that a Michigan ten cent deposit was paid when the purchase was made. If you return an out of state bottle or can that doesn't have that noted on it, the deposit wasn't paid with the purchase of that product, therefore ten cents isn't owed.

I grew up in Michigan. I miss the ten cent deposit. I remember gathering up the bottles and cans around the house for money for the local pool during the summer. I wish all states did this.

I loved the 10 cent bottle refund when I was in school at Michigan. Definitely worth saving up bottles and cans (and picking up after our fraternity parties) to take them in. It usually worked out to about $8 per 13 gallon trash bag full of cans. We would have some parties where we'd go through over 1000 beers, so bringing those cans back was definitely worth it!

@nicemarmot617:

"is there a state with a worse economy than Michigan?"

I guess you've never been to New Jersey, one of the few hell holes more democratically controlled than Michigan.

Why don't other states raise their deposit to 10¢ or Michigan lower its deposit to 5¢?

Here in Oregon we have a 5 cent deposit on cans, glass bottles and now some plastic bottles as well. The state requires all retailers-- from supermarkets to neighborhood bodegas-- to accept can and bottle returns for deposit.

Big chains like Safeway and Fred Meyer provide recycling centers with automated machines that print vouchers redeemable for cash at the customer service desk. If the a particular brand is not carried by the retailer, the machines will reject the can / bottle.

Also, UPCs are Oregon-specific to avoid the type of fraud Michigan's struggling with:

"SB 634. Manufacturers would be required to register the different labels on beverage containers offered for sale in Oregon and upon which a deposit is required. The label must bear a UPC specific to Oregon (allows the Board to see which products are for sale in Oregon and is supposed to prevent containers not purchased in Oregon from being refunded). The manufacturer must renew the label if its UPC is revised or if the container on which the label appears is changed in size, composition, or color."

Anyhow, I like the deposit. It gives homeless and unemployed a way to make money, and in the process keeps our state clean.

I remember when I lived in New York, I'd get charged the deposit on beer I'd buy at the grocery store, but never once did I see any information on how I could reclaim that nickel. Jerks.

@nicemarmot617: If the point is to get people to recycle, and these people are recycling, i think you are over reacting.

Bringing bottles from out of state IS fraud.

[www.deq.state.mi.us]

I have a crazy idea.

Change the refund to a nickel in Michigan.

Crazy, huh?

I have seen bums in michigan pick up a can and then throw it back on the ground because it wasnt stamped for 10c haha. Living on the border of michigan makes that 10c rebate tempting but I just go to a recycle place where you get 2c extra on tuesdays and saturdays.

more info on Oregon's program (MS Word doc):
[www.nwfpa.org]

I usually let a couple hundred cans build up before I cash them in...and buy more cheap, domestic lager.

@flugelhorn: ...and buy more cheap, domestic lager.

[insert obligatory "cheap lager with all the microbrews here?!?!" rant] ;)

@wattznext: I live in the Inland Empire, California, and just read an article where a woman from Hemet was arrested for abducting a dog because it was barking too much:

[ap.google.com]

Giddyup!

my darling grandmother does this - PA to NY.

2nd paragraph says that the state is out $10 mil a year due to out of state redeptions. Later on they say that 97% of all cans and bottles are returned. How can they differentiate - is that 97% propped up by the out of state returns - how can they actually tell?

Being just a handful of miles from Toledo, I know many people buy their cases of soda and beer at Costco or Sam's and redeem the containers in Michigan. Fraud, yes, but there's another issue here.

Michigan also made it illegal to simply throw beverage containers away regardless of whether a deposit was paid or not. So what do you do now since Michigan has woefully inadequate recycling programs? Sure, you could collect a few hundred cans and take them to a scrap metal dealer, but until you get enough cans that they're a big enough pain in the neck to make the trip worth it, you get to tolerate the smell and the insects trying to get into your can collection. Oh, you have bottles? Good luck trying to find a place to recycle those. Many of the neighborhood recycling programs have been discontinued. For years I took my bottles to my parents and shoved them into their bins. Worked fine until their contracted waste hauler in a town of 3,000 discontinued the program.

The state needs to take some of the escheat and create decent recycling programs within easy reach of those who don't live in major metropolitan areas. You know, like most of the state.

I grew up on the border of Michigan and Indiana and would regularly go over the state line to Indiana for all of my soda and beer needs. Returning a trash bag of sticky bottles to be given back your $1.20 is not worth it. I feel like I'm paying a ransom.

When I eventually moved to the interior of the state for college I'd buy soda in bulk while visiting my parents and just between you and me, Consumerist, I looked the other way when my roommates who were from the Eastern side of Michigan would take back all of the bottles I didn't pay a deposit on along with theirs.

This also works if you buy beverages in NJ (no deposit) and return it in NY (5 cents). Not as lucrative as the ten cents from Michigan but much easier commute.

@zentec:
Im from toledo go figure. I sure hope they dont adopt the deposit here though. I would stop buying cans altogether and switch to 2 liters.

@El_Fez: There's a fine punishable up to $10,000. You'll see the signs in some gas stations and grocery stores if you are looking.

@post_break:

Hello neighbor...enjoy games at 5/3rd Field.

The really sad thing is that recycling is mostly bunk. Recycling aluminum is worthwhile, but recycling glass, plastic, or paper causes more environmental damage and expense than it saves.

If I remember correctly, in Michigan, at least in the UP, all eligible Pepsi cans had gold tops, It was pretty easy to spot the difference in cans and I never dared risk taking my Wisconsin deposit-free cans to Wal-Mart's machines. The plastic bottles had no difference, and they didn't have different UPCs, and I believe that bottles bought in Wisconsin say MI - 10 on them. I always stocked up on soda in Wisconsin because it was cheaper and I just dumped my recycling down the recycling chute in my dorm. Since my parents lived in WI, I always stocked up on trips home and they always brought me plenty of soda when they came to visit. It certainly wasn't worth keeping bags and bags worth of recyclables in an already crowded dorm room. For the few times I bought soda in MI, I did return the bottles or cans, but overall, a royal PITA compared to just tossing the cans into a recycling bin.

@illtron: Yeah...well in New York City at least, you should be able to take the empty back to the place that you bought it for the refund. BUT. Your local Key Food or bodega or whatever probably isn't going to accept them because of space issues, caravans of career can collectors hanging around, etc. The must be mass redemption centers jusdging from the shopping carts full of cans I see being pulled around, but no, the system isn't very friendly to the average schmoe that wants to return a couple of flats worth of empties.

In Alberta, coming November 1st, the deposit of cans are going from $0.05 to $0.10, and the bottles over 1 litre are going $0.10 to $0.25 is of course my mom been saving them since they announced this. Worse is that my mom been saving milk containers in the shed, because they are getting a 10 cents deposit next year. However I am glad about the increase of deposit, it might help people recycle more.

@nidolke: And make the deposit/refund the same amount in every state! Imagine how much gas could be saved if people stopped driving across the border from other states just to make a little extra dough.

I don't understand this...how can a company be penalized for picking up more containers than they delivered? Isn't that always a possibility that one store might have more returns than sales (longer hours, easier to redeem)? Why should the distributor be penalized for that imbalance and why should they be rewarded if people don't return enough cans? Sounds like a process issue to me, especially since the returns are less than 100% of the sold cans.

Makes me wish I lived on the MI border. As I would DEFINATELY be one of those who took advantage.

We get a pittance for cans here in MO, but I still save mine up.

@Darren W.:

I'm pretty certain recycling glass saves the energy of having to go out and dig up more silica and the other chemicals used to make glass from sand.

Dunno about the others.

@El_Fez: When driving between Michigan and Indiana, there's big billboards that say that you'll get a big fine if you try to return out of state cans and bottles in Michigan.

Several distributors send their cans and bottles to various states in the Great Lakes region, including Michigan. For example, the same cans that get sent to Wisconsin and Indiana will likely get sent to Ohio and Michigan. If you look closely, the bottles will say something to the effect of "5 cents in the following states....10 cents in MI...and cash refund in California..."

Never understood the cash refund in California appearing on bottles/cans that are distributed in the Midwest myself

@zentec: "Michigan also made it illegal to simply throw beverage containers away regardless of whether a deposit was paid or not"
Really? I live in Michigan and have never heard of this. I actually ate lunch in a state building last week and was fored to throw my pop can in with the regular garbage because there was no special "cans only" container provided (something I see here a lot)

As long as Michigan is more than surrounding areas, people who find it worthwhile are going to attempt to redeem them in Michigan irregardless* of purchase area. Fraud or not. That's just human nature. It's the same reason the leave a penny/take a penny trays always have pennies in them but the leave a hundred/take a hundred jars are always empty. I wonder how much all the methods they implement to prohibit the action will cost.

*I know it's non-standard English but I make a concerted effort to push standard use of all non-standard word derivatives.

@nidolke: Michigan's looking into putting a deposit on all bottled drinks, since we get back 97% of deposit cans/bottles but nobody recycles their bottled water. I hope it goes through, myself.

I suppose that's no worse than when I run over the border to Indiana for tax-free smokes.

@wattznext: Actually the point was to get Michiganders to stop throwing their bottles and cans out the windows of their cars and clean up the litter problem. Goes back to the seventies with that fake Indian on TV...

Why?

As an ex-Michigan resident, I have mixed feelings about the deposit. It adds a significant "cost", since $0.10 a can adds up. Yes, you can get your money back. But to get all of your money back, you have to keep smelly cans around, find a store that accepts your cans (which cannot be crushed in most locations and must be one of the brands that store stocks), and remember to haul your wet cans back from work. It is a huge hassle.

Whenever I had bought a few cans from Indiana, I never had a second thought about redeeming them in Michigan. First, the number of people I knew that "recycled" their cans without redeeming the deposit was quite high (in Ann Arbor at least). Second, I frequently didn't want to haul wet cans back and forth from work since the residue would invariably get drips of coke everywhere.

It was absolutely FANTASTIC when it came to litter. There are NO cans littered about anywhere in Michigan. There are hordes of homeless that use this revenue and extract every can from the ground and trash.

@Darren W.: ut recycling glass, plastic, or paper causes more environmental damage and expense than it saves.

Compared to dropping it in the landfill with other garbage?