Nike Customers Angry After Woman With Fastest Time Doesn't "Win" Marathon
There's a bit of a backlash brewing against Nike after the woman with the fastest time in the Nike Women's Marathon wasn't declared "the winner" because she wasn't among the elite group of marathon runners who start separately from the rest of the pack.
Arien O'Connell, a fifth-grade teacher from New York City, had the best time in last Sunday's marathon, in fact, she beat the next best time by 11 minutes. So why isn't she the winner?
From SFGate:
In the statement, Nike officials said that "because of their earlier start time, the runners in the elite group had no knowledge of the outstanding race Arien was running and could not adjust their strategies accordingly."
Weary of the backlash growing against them, Nike declared Ms. O'Conell "a winner." Not "the winner." This appears to have made things worse.
It turns out that there was really no need for an elite group of runners, because no one was running an "elite" time.
...the Nike marathon in San Francisco doesn't have anyone running a world-class time - which would be something around 2 hours and 20 minutes - for the 26.2-mile course. Only O'Connell broke 3 hours - and she'd never done it before.
"I think that's what it comes down to," O'Connell said. "There is not a real definition of what it means to be in an elite field."
That's where the Nike event got in trouble. If it had recognized that there was no need for an elite pack, and everyone had lined up and run, the fastest time would have been the winner. No argument.
In fact, that was the other part of Nike's announcement Wednesday.
"Learning from the unique experience in this year's race," it said. "Nike has decided today to eliminate the elite group from future Nike Women's Marathons. Next year, all runners will run in the same group, and all will be able to win."
Marathoner 'a' winner; Nike looks like a loser [SFGate] (Thanks, Guy!)
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Comments:
good on her. That's amazing in my book. I'm lucky to break 10 miles in 3 hours without a vehicle.
Nike Just sell out.
I don't think the 'elite' group thing is that unusual (It is unusual that someone would run the fastest time in the race and not be in the elite group). USA Triathlon rules specify that an elite group should be created in each USAT event (at least those with prize money), made up of people who are registered with USAT as 'elite' (There's a review process, and you have to show that your previous times are good.)
Anyway, I know that this marathon has different rules than a triathlon, but I guess I'm just saying that the elite group doesn't surprise me. Nike seems to have done kind of a crappy job organizing their race, and responding to this unusual situation.
As a funny aside, the USAT also has a category for the, ahem, larger set. (If I registered, I would easily meet the requirements) The guys get to be labeled "Clydesdales" (Awesome) and the ladies are referred to as "Athenas."
Is it me or does the ideal of an elite group is silly to begin with? I mean, if you don't sign up for the elite group, you are basically guaranteeing that you don't win.
This is odd but not impossible and probably has some explanation. The runners select a category to enter- you may have to qualify to run as an elite, but either way she didn't enter that category. I'm sure she won whatever category she did enter, but the organizers are right- she didn't win the elite category because she wasn't in it.
Imagine it's politics- if the Governor candidate gets 54% of the vote, but the Lt. Governor candidate gets 65%, he/she still doesn't get to be governor- he wasn't in that race. If they were, the race would have been different. (if your state runs a combined ticket, then make up your own comparison)
From what I understand, the concept of the "elite" group is just "we are going to pre-determine who will and will not be allowed to win."
@Pan_theFrog: No, everyone has a chance to win. Which is, you know, fair. Much more fair than being arbitrarily predetermined that you are unable to win, despite having the best time by 11 minutes.
How dumb can the on-site race organizers be? I read somewhere that the prize was not a car, not cash, but a Tiffany bowl. For the price of a Tiffany bowl ($1000 tops?), Nike is willing to get all this bad publicity!
@ThunderSaid: "Anyway, I know that this marathon has different rules than a triathlon, but I guess I'm just saying that the elite group doesn't surprise me."
It's pretty standard in marathoning, especially as it's gotten more and more popular. You typically have an elite group running for times and for qualifications to other races (national, international) and then a great mass of people who just want to finish the marathon. The elites are started at the front of the pack, which is a closer scenario to how they'd race if they were racing in, say, the Olympics -- they don't have to shoulder through 5,000 Joe Schmoes who like to jog.
And with shoe-chip timing these days, it really doesn't matter that much if you're Joe Schmoe at the back of the packing starting 5 or 10 minutes later ... you still get YOUR time.
(My dad marathons. I myself reserve running for when lions are chasing me.)
Someone suggested this on Deadspin, and I'm in total agreement: If I was Reebok, New Balance, or even British Knights I would be on Arien's doorstep with a huge paycheck. Could you IMAGINE the commercials?
Other marathons and half marathons almost always have prizes for the good ol' regular folk who also want a chance to be a "winner". While I do agree that it makes sense that the person with the fastest overall time should be declared to the "winner", I can also agree the argument of how if the real "elite" women knew she was running against them, their race results may have ended differently. Having the additional competition around them, may have led them to run at a more competitive pace and this woman may not have actually finished first in terms of time. Also there may be additional requirements for the "elite" women in terms of what information they were required to submit prior to being eligible for prizes. This woman may not have qualified like the others so I think she wasn't entitled to the the elite prizes. Why not have two categories, different age divisions, etc and give everyone a chance to be a "winner"? Fair for all.
I've run and finished the NYC Marathon four times. In a race that big (over 30,000 participants) runners do get separated into slow and fast start groups. However, regardless of which group started first, a race is a race and if someone ran THE BEST time they should be the winner. PERIOD. How many women in the ELITE group were sporting Nike running gear????
@Mollyg: Not exactly. Running is a popular sport for amateurs, and races typically have far more people who are running to run than are running for time. So if, for example, you wanted to run in the "elite" group in the Chicago marathon (which would give you a chance to qualify for various international competitions), you might run a qualifying marathon in, say, Rockford, Illinois with only 500 people. If you run a fast enough time, you can qualify for the "elite" start in Chicago.
With shoe-chip timing you can get a qualifying time no matter where in the pack you start; Nike's issue is that if she'd run with the "elite" pack, the "elite" runners might have pushed themselves harder in response to her running and her strategy. Which I don't think really excuses Nike not calling her THE winner, especially since this doesn't seem to be a high-level race with world-class times, where minute strategy changes would matter. And, you know, it's sports. They're not fun if they don't have surprises.
@Mollyg: The elite group is in place so people like me (big and slow) dont get in the way of the faster ones. Runners have set strategies for long races, and train hard for them, elite runners have proven them selves, so they get to start ahead and run their race.
But the fact that she beat those runners is indeed funny, so she should get something.
@BuddyGuyMontag:
Totally. Nike screwed the pooch hard on this. Any of the other running shoe companies could swoop in on this and grab some really good publicity.
If Nike was a great a company as they say they are, they would step up and declare Arien the winner. I'm sure the first place "Elite" woman would understand, and is probably horrified to be in the position they're in.
This story brought back an annoyance near 3 decades old. In Cannonball Run, the racers punched a clock at the beginning of the race to denote their start time. Yet at the finish line, there was a mad dash to be the first one to cross!
Damn you, Reynolds and DeLouise. Your outright disregard for plot continuity has vexed my mind once more!
/end false despair
I have to agree with NIKE. I think the winner of the race should be the first person to cross the finish line. I think the idea of chip time should be so everyone knows exactly how fast they ran 26.2 miles. The argument if there should have even been an elite group with times that "slow"(compared to the world's elite runners) is a whole different story. Calling her a winner is like saying, if Tiger Woods wins a PGA golf tournament and then after the tour moves on a normal person has a better score... should he get a PGA medal?
I feel bad for NIKE trying to put on a nice event and they are now getting negative press for it.
@Murph1908: As I recall, the girls in the Lambo did start right before JJ and Victor, so there would have been a race between them.
I'm starting to wonder if this isn't more common. A couple weeks ago in the Chicago Marathon, a man who didn't have an "elite" start time ended up earning the 4th place time overall, though due to his "non-elite" starting status, he was not eligible for the $15,000 prize. I can't find the full story now, but here's a link to an update for both this Nike event and the Chicago Marathon. I guess in Chicago, they ended up giving the guy an "unspecified bonus." Apparently, this isn't an issue of Nike being hard-nosed, but a USATF rule that governs these kinds of events.
[www.chicagotribune.com] (information about the Chicago guy at the end of the article)
I agree with Boricuachick
The "Elite" group knows how Marathons work, and how shoe chipping works. They do it as professionals for gods sake. Soooo ... I see this as the "elites" running in a "reserved" way. None of them pushed too hard, and they had a nice relaxing race. Perhaps they all had hangovers or something.
In the meantime this schoolteacher who never had the opportunity to be an elite (as this was her first marathon) decides to run her balls off (pardon the expression) and beat them.
She beat them. Seems to me it's more the Elites fault for not bothering to run a real race.
This lady is the winner in my book. (haha like I matter)
they were elite. shouldnt they have been running for the BEST time they could get. it sounds to me they got lazy. you run to win. theres not much strategy to it for adjusting. they just got beat by an amatuer and dont want to admit it.
@JohnDeere: I think there is a lot more strategy to it than is obvious, but it's more of a personal strategy about managing your own physical resources, but I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.
You don't race to win? = You don't win.
@Murph1908: Thank you. Cause as I watched that flick a thousand times in my youth, it never made sense. Where's he gonna sit?
Wouldn't this be right up Nike's alley as a narrative? Can't believe they're throwing this back?
@boricuachick:
That wouldn't have happened in NYC. At most major large races - NYC, Chicago, Marine Corps, etc, chip time does not count for whether or not you won the race. Your time starts when the gun goes off and if you took 20 minutes to get over the starting line or if you're in a later wave, well, you better run 20 minutes faster than the winner.
The thing is, if *I* were capable of running a sub-three hour marathon, I certainly would have looked at what potential prizes I would have won. The Nike race results aren't easy to understand, so I can't tell if she won her age group or not. Hopefully, she knows now to enter a race with more awards for non-elites: age group, etc. In a lot of other races, she would have gotten something.
I would admit that unless I knew about this elite group, I would only run as fast as I needed to stay ahead of everyone else.
@gretch9er: Sounds to me like USATF has a lousy rule. I've run in many large races and always prefer to start in the middle of the "field" as I try and pace myself. Inevidably, there are walkers and slow runners who position themselves as close to the front as possible. Not only does this causes congestion, but according to USATF rules, it can create a scenario where I would "lose" to a slower runner.
Over and over again people can not help themselves but to somehow think that they know best and that fair is not fair for some reason. Even with the Olympics and other major sporting events the organizers and local bigwigs always get first crack at the best tickets.
Where I live a recent international hockey competition gave out a few dozen tickets to each member of the legislature. Why? This made me angry and I hate hockey!
Elite passengers on airlines too. Can you imagine having elite lanes on the road for people driving BMWs and such?
Why does corporate thinking always stray from basic equality?
@BuddyGuyMontag: Wow, is British Knights still around? The last I heard about them was when MC Hammer was doing their commercials.
This is the first time I've commented at Consumerist. I felt the need to because I hope that someone who has any sort of power at Nike reads these comments and realizes that they've made a HUGE mistake and should declare her the winner.
"Sorry we messed up but we'll try to fix it next year." Not good enough.
Looks like I'm switching to New Balance shoes.
@TakingItSeriously: Exactly. There's no reason *all* the pro / elite runners should be coming in after 3 hours, unless they were taking it easy. Isn't 3h the time that (informally) separates the joggers from the serious folk?
Their own fault for feeling cocky. Or Nike & the other organizers for not putting together a race attractive enough to pull real elite talent. Fantastic job by the teacher!
@JohnDeere: It's long term strategy. There's two aspects to look at. One is the strategy of the current race. If you're running you're gonna want to run a certain pace that leaves enough energy to protect yourself should an opponent try to get ahead of you. AFAIK, those types of moves tend to happen towards the end of a race. So why uselessly waste energy now if you might need more in another couple miles?
The second is long term racing. Say you think you're leading the race and as far as you can tell there's no risk of another person beating you. Why strain yourself and risk injury to get a better time, especially if it's not a very big race?
Nike elitest just poo it.
@TakingItSeriously: I don't think this was her first marathon. In fact, it looks like she ran the Boston Marathon in 2007 with a time of 3:17. I don't know what time would qualify her as elite, but that is an excellent time.
I think the telling point in this is that the lady barely broke 3 hours in a race where a world class time is about 2 hours 20 minutes.
Forty minutes off the pace? The elites weren't even trying. The woman ran her heart out and deserves to win.
I suppose that if all the elites got cramps and quit they would extrapolate their finish times based on where they quit and declare a winner.
Are the registration fees different for each group? I can understand different prizes being awarded for someone who paid $30 as opposed to $100 or something like that, but there should still be one "winner" overall, regardless of what group you're in, based on the time it takes you to get from point A to point B.
Another reason why I refuse to buy or wear Nike anything. The company is horribly run and care little about people. They are in it for the money and to increase revenue - fortunately, none of mine is steered their way.
"elite" my ass. This just proves my assertion that "running" is not a real sport. It's activity, it's a race, but it's not sporting if the person with the best time is denied the title due to an arbitrary reason.
@snoop-blog: And that is what Nike is stating. I can see the bind that Nike is in. Yes Arien O'Connell had the best time (BRAVO!) but who's to say that the "elite" people couldn't have does just as well if not better if they had know this. Look at Usain Bolt in this past Olympic. He knew he was going to win the gold for the 100m, so he slowed down over the last 10m.
In marathons, it's all about managing your body, so most "elite" runners will not push themselves any harder then they have too.
What I would like to know is, what are the "elite" women who were declared "winners" doing about this?
Why don't they stand up and demand that the woman who ran the best time get first prize? That would be the honorable thing to do. Why would you want a prize you know you didn't actually win?
@lowercase: Sorry doesnt fly to me. She Won the race, the Elite category is a sub category of the race, the race is not a subcategory of the Elite.
should have had 3 winners. best elite. best amatuer. and best overall. she should have one twice damn it.
I'm really into running and that has to be a terrible feeling to have the best time but not win the marathon because a corporation doesn't consider you "elite." You really dropped the ball Nike and then instead of admitting you made a mistake and making it right you do what most corporations do and just try to BS your way out of it and hope no one catches it.
Yup, the same thing happened with the 4th place runner in this year's Chicago marathon. [www.chicagotribune.com]
I think the net result was... "well, that sucks." and then people moved on with their lives.
It does sound like this marathon was poorly managed if none of the "elites" finished under 3 hours, though...
First, congrats to Arien O'Connell for running in the fastest time. You are THE winner.
Now, this situation is a result of naming rights. If it was just The Women's Marathon, then Nike wouldn't be getting the grief it so justly deserves right now. The organizers of the race would be getting yelled at. But because Nike believes that people will buy their stuff because they bought the naming rights to a race (or just created the race out of whole cloth), then they get the good publicity (if there is any in general with these things) and the bad publicity (like now).
Since I only run when I see my bus or subway train, I don't buy Nike stuff. And stunts like this aren't about to change my mind.
Running marathons is one of those great feats...I don't care how fit you are, it's not easy to run a marathon. And it's even more daunting for people who aren't the fittest, which is most of America (and skinny does not equal fit). It's terrible that this woman ran her hardest, and WON, and was not acknowledged for it. Bad, Nike, bad bad bad Nike!
"Next year, all runners will run in the same group, and all will be able to win."
So now everyone is a winner? Everyone gets a trophy... Yeah, that will solve the problem.