I'm all for anything that is bad for Best Buy. If that happens to be Geek Squad unionizing, so be it.

I'll probably get flamed up the wazoo for saying this, but unions had their place in history and are now causing companies to ship jobs overseas, causing prices to rise, and causing companies to cut corners wherever they can to save money. As much as I dislike BB, they absolutely should fight this. Unions fight dirty trying to unionize people, companies should be able to fight dirty back at them.

@downwithmonstercable: I completely agree.

One thing that bothers me though is how companies pull this "communication" excuse out every time. When you're a minimum wage employee at Best Buy, communication is very much a one way street. And maybe it should be that way - Just don't lie about it.

@downwithmonstercable: I am mostly against unions because they protect the worst employees and stifle the advancement of the best employees. They had their place in time and for the most part, that time is over. Really the only place I see a need are places like Walmart that rape their employees.

The fact that Geek Squad Geeks are told to upsell stupid services so much shows just hows little "tech support" pays the bills. It would be foolish for Geek Squad to unionize as I believe that Best Buy would just end that part of their business model.

Target is currently on an anti union kick as well and so far there have been no signs of any union trying to sign people up.

Retailers are always afraid of unions for one reason and one reason alone. Profit. They know a union would probably end up getting their employees more money and better benefits which all eat into those billions in profits.

I havent formed a solid opinion on unions yet therefore if I was presented with a union card I wouldnt sign it but the sheer panic retailers go through means they cant be all that bad for the people who join them.

I agree, if anyone doubts the potential negative impact of unions on a business, look at the American auto industry. That's certainly not to say that unions were always bad, but at this point unions are really about lining a union boss' pockets with employees' money in the form of union dues. Their membership has declined, so they're frantically searching for new revenue streams.

@MikeGrenade: That is true. I take back what I said about companies should be allowed to fight dirty back at the unions. They should take the high road. Lying about the situation is not the answer. But if you'd got the union slinging mud with no restrictions, it's like fighting someone with one arm tied behind your back.

@downwithmonstercable: I agree as well.

I've had a bad taste in my mouth for unions ever since I was in high school and worked at the grocery store. I was forced to join the union and pay the dues even though I didn't want too, or feel as if they would provide me a benefit. I was told I couldn't have the job if I didn't join the union. Bunch of crap if you ask me.

Unions are hardly ever the answer. If you find yourself in a situation where you (or others) may think you need a union consider quitting the job and forming your own company (ideally a cooperative) instead.

Unions have done a lot of good for the working stiff, but unfortunately they merely perpetuate the power struggle that will always exist between management and the worker.

Personally I work at a worker owned cooperative. The cooperative is entirely democratic with checks and balances in place to level the power between the Board of Directors, management and the workers.

In my opinion any business can and should be run as a cooperative.

@downwithmonstercable:

Unions are bad for professional jobs, but absolutely necessary right now for retail and service jobs, where companies like Wal-Mart are acting like something out of the 1880's.

Ford union- bad
Geek Squad union-good

@sleze69: Wal-Mart is a special case, because they are an awful company and treat their employees horribly. Yes a union would benefit the employees in the short term to force the company to bring their wage and healthcare standards to decent levels, but in the end would push Wal-Mart to cut corners elsewhere even more.

I used to work in retail in a union job. Retail margins are so slim, (less than 2%) that companies have to plug any leaks they can in the system, which ultimately means cutting corners on employees or customer service. Unions create unsustainable circumstances for companies to keep people employed. Why do you think Boeing and Airbus ship jobs outside the company? The unions are making things too expensive for them to compete. It's sad, because the union members are blinded by the union propaganda and don't see their jobs disappearing.

@arstal: I disagree. All unions are bad IMO. The big three car companies are in serious trouble in part because of concessions they made to unions years ago where they guaranteed jobs. Manufacturing work like assembling cars or airplanes or whatever is considered an unskilled job, because you can walk out of high school into one of those places and work there with a few weeks of training. I'm not calling those mechanics unskilled. BUT, it is absolutely unrealistic to expect you can forgo a college degree and go make $60k-80k a year because the union gouges the company for pay increases.

If companies set a stable sustainable pay scale, a lot of them wouldn't be shipping jobs overseas or subcontracting it out to non-union companies.

I am currently a union worker. I work for a mining company (primary industry) in Northern Ontario as a warehouseman. Not so mush for my position, but a lot of my co-workers are in conditions every day where a wrong move could end with injury (it is a lot safer here than in other mines, though). Benefits and high pay come with the conditions, and being a part of that union ensures you are paid equal value for your work. And I am glad I am part of the union.

That aside, I don't think unions belong in tertiary industries. An expense in one place is a corner cut in another, in an industry already doing a piss-poor job handling everyday things. Does Geek Squad really need to get unionized with all the dangers and health issues they may face everyday.

@downwithmonstercable:
I don't see unions as a bad thing; What's happened over the last couple decades has not been the fault of the unions, but the undermining of their abilities to represent the people.

The idea behind the unions was that the workers - with little funds and in need of a paycheck to get by - are sort of powerless to negotiate a fair wage from the powers that control the means of production. If you're at the top and there's a LOT of needy people who need this job, you get them to fight amongst themselves and give out scraps.

BUT, if the workers are COLLECTIVE, then suddenly things change. You can't just fire billy and hire paul for less $$$; you have to deal with the union, which is at that point all the workers. Now, you have to gauge: if I do this and piss off the union (the workers), and they strike, I'm out XXXX amount of money. Is it worth it?

I support unions. Some could stand to be better run for sure, and I think that problem employees shouldn't be saved to the detriment of the business EVER, but fundamentally I support what the unions are about.

The fact that they send out an email shows the effectiveness of a union protecting the rights of the employee. The people in power don't want to lose power and money to the people that do the work. Anyone saying that unions are useless or past their time can negotiate by themselves and see how that goes, basically a take it or leave it negotiation. I'd prefer to negotiate from a position of power instead of weakness.

@parad0x360: Unions promote unsustainable pay and benefits, and jobs in turn lay off or outsource. American workers lose in the end. And yeah, the company has a right to be concerned about profits. if they don't profit, they close. Then EVERYBODY is out of a job.

Also..you'd be hard pressed to find a company that has billions in profits in the retail industry. Billions in revenue sure, but profits are less than 2% on average.

If the Geek Squad is part of a union, does the union get a percent of the porn they steal off of customer's computers?

Unions are great for employees and job security. Just ask anyone that works for for GM or the Airlines!

@narayan1121:
WOW, a little misguided. While I don't doubt there's something to be said for corrupt/corruptable union stewards & leaders, think of the people working at those jobs. Those wages are "Livable wages" SOLEY because they have collective bargaining on their side. In fact, we ALL benefit from unionization, even if we're not IN a union. They're the measuring stick. If you're looking to go to a job and you have two options, one's a unionized job that pays $15/hr, and the other is not... Do you think that the non-unionized job will pay $5/hr? Probably not. They're going to be cheaper but competitive, because they need to keep employees on the payroll to stay in business.

Unions get a bad rap, and it's mostly just negative perceptions that are perpetrated by large businesses. Unions stand to take away from the few and give livable wages & the option to actually negotiate to the people who without them would be begging for peanuts & powerless to do anything about it.

I think more people should actually invest time into the history of unions, their reasons for being, and the ACTUAL benefits/cons to them, rather than just basing their judgement off of what Tim-bob said online about them that one time. Negative perceptions are easy to create in just a few short words, but you'll notice hardly ever are they factually backed up short of "They're forcing businesses to ship jobs overseas," which if you actually think about it is saying that "If we didn't have unions they'd pay us less and keep the jobs here, so we could all work for peanuts!"

Doesn't sound to appetizing then, huh? maybe unions aren't the bad guys, maybe greedy executives are.....

@randombob: I fully agree with you in regards to what a union is meant to be for. In principle they are a great idea - to collectively represent the employees to have fair wages and benefits. But what unions have become have turned the companies into what they are today. Unions are just as greedy as the corporations.

Following the Boeing strike, I've watched and listened to some of the strikers. A lot (not all) have a sense of entitlement, like Boeing should be lavishing all kinds of cash and retirement and pension and this and that on them. They are trying to force Boeing into guaranteeing job security. First, nobody has job security and it's unreasonable to make a company guarantee it. Second, the ridiculous pay and benefits are what are caused Boeing to develop the 787 all over the world instead of here in the US. They shouldn't be demanding unreasonable stuff and threatening to strike if they don't get what they want. The company has to be able to turn a profit and function. Boeing has lost an estimated $2 billion in two months because of the strike. The union members have only guaranteed a soon to be coming layoff, and that Boeing will more than ever try to ship stuff overseas where they don't have to worry about strikes.

Unions may not be right for every situation, but in the US the only time I have had insurance of any sort was when I worked in a Union job (and while in the army, but Im only counting when working for a corporation). Until either the government or the employer is able to provide health insurance or a decent retirement fund for the lowest paid workers, then there is a place for the unions.

In my opinion, yes if Best Buy unionized then they would probably need to raise prices, but overall Americans have grown used to prices that are kept exceptionally low in part due to not giving low level workers any reasonable benefits, at some point this will have to stop.

Do you realize that in Eastern europe people with good, upper middle class but not rich jobs, flying to the US to shop for clothes etc is not an unreasonable proposition? Does that really make sense?

@smokinfoo - I've never heard of this type of company - just looked it up on Wikipedia and looks quite interesting.

@icust298: But you'll only ever get paid the same as everyone else. Kiss advancement good bye. That's good enough for some people, I guess.

@smokinfoo: Coops can be tough to organize though. But I admire companies that put forth that kind of effort. REI is a good example.

@mattarse: REI is a co-op. Everyone I've ever known that works there LOVES the job.

Unions are pure, unadulterated evil. Yes, they had their uses in the past before laws were established for minimum wages and workplace safety. Now, they are nothing more than a veil for organized crime.

Want to know what happens when your your workers decide not to join a union? It's called arson.

@downwithmonstercable: I'm not going to flame you, but I strongly disagree with your 'unions are obsolete and bad' assessment.

Historically it's been shown that if a company can make a few more dollars by fucking their employees, they will fuck their employees, and in these days I'm betting the larger employers have arbitration clauses they want prospective employees to sign at hiring to boot, providing them another way to fuck them, or at least get the original fucking to 'stick'.

Now I know unions have some problems in how they execute employee protections, and that those protections frequently really ARE bad for the company involved, but much better that than the alternative... which is the aforementioned fucking.

It used to be that you could generally trust a large employer to take care of their employees, and treat them honestly and fairly. Now I think that is a naive and ill-informed expectation.

@Eric1285: Has that happened at any time recently, or only in the past even you think they were needed?

So organized crime gives better health benefits than "legit" work, is that what you're telling me?

In theory, unions are great. For workers in very dangerous industries (i.e. mines, etc.), they are a necessity. However, in unskilled labor industries like Walmart, Geek Squad, or grocery stores, companies (and customers) are usually better off if the entire staff is fired and a new one hired. The union will invariably kill any profit margins eventually driving the company out of business and the employees out of jobs. This is especially the case if market conditions or business models change.

That said, I have no problems with the existence of unions anywhere - just workers should be able to choose whether or not they want to join if they want a job.

I'd laugh if the Geek Squad unionized. Why, because the obvious response by Best Buy will be to spin them off into a separate company and create a new in-house tech-support service. Then Geek Squad goes belly up.

I mean its not like any technical knowledge is required for a Geek Squadesqe organization.

So, the end result would essentially be a complicated version of firing all the current workers and rebranding the same crap.

@balthisar: And that's the shame of it, really. I work in a company that has 3 unions, including the CWA (by far the worst of the lot), and I've long been of the opinion that it's too damned bad that unions are necessary, because they universally promote mediocrity, protecting bad employees past reasonable limits, and holding back good workers to the same level as the rest of the pack.

However, they are, unfortunately, still very much necessary. The location I work in is one of the few locations in our company that was non-union. It's also one of the only groups that had their entire job function outsourced to another country, and 98% of the people let go. Meanwhile, the schlubs with collective bargaining power are still tooling along, and still have real negotiating power with the company.

Unions suck for companies, but lack of unions sucks ten times more for workers.

As a former employee of Best Buy, I can safely say that a union would be catastrophic. It would negatively impact all groups involved, save two: the union organization and bad employees. Invariably, a union contract would stipulate equal pay for equal work, and a pay scale based on years-of-experience would be enacted. This helps those "brain-dead" blue shirts who aggravate all of us could be paid equally or more than the part-time college student who actually knows what they are talking about. The inability for the good workers to negotiate individually(which I, and many others, were able to do) will breed resentment and encourage turnover. The revolving-door of employees at Best Buy is bad enough as it is. Store and District managers need as much flexibility as possible to hire and retain competent workers, and union contracts will cripple their ability to do so.

Union coffers will fill, incompetent employees will keep their jobs at an above-market rate, and customer service will become even worse. Bad news all the way around.

Let them Unionize I hope Best Buy then shuts down the Geek Squad and hire "Firedog" hey they are going out of buisness anyways

@InThrees: I disagree with your "fucking" theory. Yes there are companies that have and still do this (Wal Mart is a perfect example) but of all the terrible companies, there are 100 others that are awesome, and are non union. Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, etc are all awesome places to work, whether you are a barista, packaging person, or receptionist, or a white collar worker. Companies now have to realize that they need to value their employees because the job market is competetive. It costs more money to hire and train someone every six months after they quit than it does to pay more and have better benefits and keep them for years.

My main argument is that unions force wages and benefits higher than they should be to be sustainable. This causes profit loss, which results in layoffs and outsourcing.

Look at American Apparel. Let's forget about it's whack-job CEO and look at wha they provide. First, they are providing jobs which traditionally are done in China. And, they pay a decent livable wage for that kind of work. They offer tuition assistance, good medical benefits, bus passes, subsidized lunches, etc. That to me shows appreciation for employees and that they value their work. And yet, unions are calling for those employees to unionize. Why would they need to? How are they being treated unfairly? These are unskilled, uneducated workers stitching shirts together. Those jobs are few and far between in the US, because you can hire someone in Taiwan for 50 cents a day to do the same work. They've got it good there. If a union came in, they'd push those wages to unsustainable levels, and that warehouse would shut down once American Apparel couldn't afford it anymore.

There is a reason why unionized jobs like that have disappeared. They don't exist anymore because they're too expensive. Some companies will "fuck" their employees, yes. But I think if you really look at things, you'll see that 99% of them don't.

Sure, we've heard horror stories about Geek Squad "techs," and I have seen their "repairs" firsthand: I own a small PC repair company, so I am often called in to clean up after them.
However, I think their "technicians" have the right to unionize.
Best Buy then has the right to stop "fixing" computers, which would be just fine with me.

In the letter they say over and over that a union would prevent them from adapting to market conditions. Basically they are saying over and over that they need to fire the expensive employees or those who have morals. I hope that the union contract says "No employee will be asked to lie to customers."

@darkjedi26: You are never forced to join, but you still have to pay dues even if you're not in it.

That's how they get you.

They're like what the second or third largest lobbyist, they're like Oil Lobbyist is to Republican as Union Lobbyists are to Democrats. Pretty simple equation.

My dad was the Vice President of CWA Local 6215 in Dallas for a number of years, so I was raised as the son of a union man. Many years I was dragged out of bed early in the morning to picket various Southwestern Bell/At&T places for various reasons. Since I was small at the time I had no idea what the hell I was there for, but it was good to support my dad.

@Thassodar:

How many buisnesses you guys force to go overseas?

@downwithmonstercable: And by shipping the jobs overseas Boeing won't have to worry about all those pesky business ethics that get them in trouble in this country.

The year before last, Boeing paid out over $600 million to stop a federal investigation and prosecution over documents that they stole from Lockheed and used to gain government contracts. The CEO saw his pay decrease 7.6 percent to $19 million the next year. Kinda "lavish" for someone who lost that much for letting his company get involved in a crime dontcha think? Looks like he, at least, has job security.

As a former Communications Worker of America union member, I can tell you what that particular union has done for me in one word.

SQUAT.

I worked for AT&T where they had the CWA as the union of choice. First of all (and I don't know if it's this way everywhere or just at our particular location), regardless of if you joined the union or not, the dues were taken out of your payroll check. $50 a month. You were bullied into joining the union, telling you that the management would do nothing for you, that they don't want to have to hire people ar fair wages, and so on and so forth.

Management would tell you that the CWA were bullying them into giving the employees decent wages and health insurance that was affordable.

Very mixed signals from both sides.

Yeah, it was nice to be able to afford health insurance for once in my life ($21 a month for health, vision dental, and health plus...whatever that was), but at the same time, when it came to what the union said it would do, they failed. When it came time for them to stand up for an employee who was wronged by the company and upper management in the call center location, they didn't do anything.

When AT&T fired me (for occuring too many points, yet I was on maternity leave), they asked if I wanted to file a greivance. I did. And I've not heard a thing since. That was in April. I've not been given a phone call, an e-mail, a letter...nothing.

I've since then moved on to another company that has a good attendance policy (with actual maternity leave!), is not so uptight and where, sadly, the health insurance is not as good, but at least it's available.

@downwithmonstercable: Yes, but many are shipping the jobs overseas because they don't have the regulations here that make the workplaces safe (think the early days of the Industrial Revolution). Mind you, I've heard tale of companies that go overseas, pay a low wage, build a school, a hospital, and save money while improving a community. This is great and I wish they'd do it here as well.

Unions have a use, but it's to balance the power between the company and its workers. And I agree, I don't think unions are doing what they're supposed to for the most part.

Would someone please kill John Gotti so we don't have to put up with this union crap anymore?

@RandaPanda0283: I'm in CWA through ATT also. Shitty union, probably going to strike at the call center I am at. How the hell do you un unionize? The funniest thing was the first day the union came in and had people sign paper work was that 75% of the people in the group didn't want to be in the union in the first place but were force to.

Unions are a necessary evil so long as employers attempt to get the most work for the least amount of pay. There is nothing wrong with uniting towards a common goal. Something that Americans severely lack as of late.

@corinthos: I don't know that it's possible to "un-unionize". Which call center do you work at? There had been rumors of strike at the call center I worked at to, due to the union contract not being negotiated like the union wanted.

I googled union and geek squad and on like the 40th page a link to www.tellthem.forumotion.net it appears that they are building a real case for change before they start getting signatures. One of the first post appears to tell the story that some uppermgnt guy went against the rest of the companies decision and gave all the Geek Squad guys/gals a $10k pay cut by taking away their company cars. Way to piss em off!

Lets thank the unions for the five day work week, the forty hour week, overtime laws after 40 hours etc, etc, etc. Anybody ever read the book The Jungle by Upton Sinclair? Perhaps we should just go back to living like that.

@parad0x360: Their fear is understandable, I think.

Imagine being told by your local (and only) power company that due to policy changes, instead of paying a standard rate based on usage, you would now need to negotiate not only your rate, but your usage, and you would have to justify yourself in writing if you didn't meet your usage quota. And by the way, if you don't comply, they'll turn the power off, put a big sign out on the street saying that you don't pay your bills, and harass you if you buy a generator.

It's a bit long winded of an analogy, but I think you get the idea. Unions represent a fair amount of expense and fear/worry because a strike has the potential to turn a year of gains into a year of losses. Anyone would be right to worry a power like that being in the hands of people who have no vested intersted in the business succeeding or failing.

@RandaPanda0283: Evansville. I am going to another job thankfully before the whole strike business goes down.