I just got an email from BoA who bought out MBNA's cards saying that I need to spend more since I have such a high limit.

I wonder how big / existent the "Credit Card Crunch" will be. I still can't wrap my brain around the statistics that quote an average American household as spending ~5-6k more per year than they make. That can't happen forever.

Less Junk Mail means, Less printing, which means those print shops relying on that revenue in turn will start cutting back or going out of business entirely.

I know nobody likes Junk Mail but it employs, not only printing houses, but the art segment as well as photography. Also USPS rely on junk mail to sustain their business.

so sure less junk mail is good for us who like trees and hate useless crap mail.

But it's bad for us who don't want more unemployed people and a bad economy.

I've gotten those too, and letters encouraging cash advances, transfers. Not for me thanks!

@Fist-oâ„¢: What's the source of your statistic? Is it possible that a significant portion of that is due to unclaimed income in this average American household? I have several friends with 2nd jobs that pay under the table, or side "projects" from which they generate money, and I don't even know any drug dealers.

You mean Plasic Money doesnt mean your rich?

@Skankingmike: I send it right back to them, so I don't care. It gives me something to do in the mornings when it's slow. :-)

@Jakuub: Let me try to see where I read that.... Huh! Well according to THIS article, that's a wrong / misleading figure:

[moneycentral.msn.com]

I'm willing to admit I was wrong! Or, at least, simply believed what I read somewhere. Of course... what's the source for THIS article? *shrug*

p.s. It's the wrong beer now. (Sam Adams FTW!)

@Skankingmike: What a ridiculous justification of junk mail. Surely you jest.

Either that, or you work for the Gooberment.

@Skankingmike: Somehow your argument doesn't sway me to like junk mail. I do the mail at work, and there's a ton of it. Without credit card offers, there's still a ton, so you don't need to worry.

"...the number of pieces of junk mail the average American receives has fallen dramatically."

Funny, considering I still receive my monthly or sometimes semimonthly offers from Amex and Citi.

Lately I've been getting notices of credit limits being lowered. It seems if I pay my cards down the banks are lowering the credit because they fear I will respend what I am paying back.

Personally I don't care. My only fear is I don't have a emergency fund at the moment as I am trying to get my spending under control as I pay the lowest cards down first.

@zentex: I do as well, but with a twist. I take the junk fro CC-A and stuff it in the envelope from CC-B and vice-versa and since they pay the postage, viola! Jobs for the post office to deliver and jobs for the mailroom, and a job for someone to open each envelope and dispose of the contents. Hey, another job or three, Waste Management! Wins all around!

Odd, Citibank just raised my credit limit a lot. Just in case I want to buy a car using their Visa card.

Umm if we had money in the first place would we need credit cards? Just saying is all. I will say the amount of credit card apps I get in the mail have significantly decreased over the last few months. However I haven't gone a week with out getting those freaking "checks" from the credit card company's I have cards with telling me to spend spend spend. I hate those checks with a passion, at this rate I'm going to have to get a new shredder.

I can't get a student loan for college now, but everyone else doesn't have to deal with junk mail. Wonderful.

@thebluepill: It does in Americana!

@blackmage439:

Funny, considering I still receive my monthly or sometimes semimonthly offers from Amex and Citi.

I've definitely noticed a huge drop in the number of offers I've received in the past few months. Our household used to receive 10-20 offers a week. Now I receive 1-5.

And it has become much more difficult to raise my credit limit (which I typically did every 6 months).

@Fist-oâ„¢: Having gone to school for art and coming out with no real job prospects back in 2002 and now going back to school again for education, I can surely tell you that if you want to be a graphic designer good luck. If companies cut back on your junk mail, or people cancel their magazine subscriptions you will see even more "starving artists" and starving print operators.

I don't' work for the government, but you need to understand that just because you hate junk mail doesn't mean that it doesn't create a lot of jobs that are highly specialized to a few particular fields.

Design firms that create ads will loose that segment and cut the jobs of artists who are either new or don't' know say Flash. The graphic arts field is pretty sad as it is. And the slowly dying out Print shops will quickly die.

Like I said the USPS employs a lot of people regardless if you like them or not if their bulk rate mail goes down they loose money thus jobs get cut.

This economy can slowly spiral into a depression very easily if it's not closely monitored.

The last time we had a devastating depression like economy we got socialistic principles from FDR's New Deal. Lets see what we get this time.

James Surowiecki for one is not so convinced by the Times piece:

[www.newyorker.com]

"There is an upside to all of this, of course, the number of pieces of junk mail the average American receives has fallen dramatically."

Unless you are like me and work for a company who sends it for the banks.

I can't get my CC companies to stop sending me cash advance checks and offers for 0 - 5 % interest for a specified time limit.

I've spomken with several others about this and it seems to be a pattern of trying to get those with good credit to go deeper in debt while they reduce the limits of those that they fear will default.

Although it does not affect me personally since I carry no CC debt, it has to be concerning to those who's limits are reduced and thereby their debt ratio's rise.

I too fear that CC default will be the next big gloomy headlines in the coming months.

I'll second the point on junk mail. I got my first CC offer in the mail this week in like 2 months.

When I log into American Express to pay my amex weekly as I always do, they now cover up the pay bill button with a warning that what you are seeing is not yet a bill. You have to close the warning before you can click the pay bill button. I guess frequent online payments are hurting the potential for late payments and interest.

We were broke 5 years ago, but had houses and jobs that served as collateral. I don't think this is a surprise conclusion for the credit card companies.

@Skankingmike: Your argument is ridiculous. It's like telling me I should invite neighborhood dogs to take dumps on my lawn because it employes free lance pooper scoopers. Yes, the poor pooper scooper might need to find a new job but that doesn't mean I need to have a lawn full of turds.

In case you missed the analogy, Mr. Pooper Scooper, if your job depends on leaving turds on my lawn (or in my mail) then you'll need to find a new job because I don't want to support it.

@OhYeahAlright: Can you not get the loan for tuition or is it you can't get a loan to cover tuition plus living expenses?

Have you looked at going to a 2-year school to save some money and possibly work? Live at home, work as close to full time as possible and, in exchange for not paying rent, agree to put 75% of whatever is left over after tuition into savings for the final 2 years at a 4-year college. Yeah, it sucks. But the idea of living off of debt for four years does sound stupid, doesn't it?

@Skankingmike: Why can't we take all that effort and add actual value to the economy instead of just mindlessly employing people?

@Corporate_guy: I noticed that today as well. I'm tempted to call them up and ask what their preferred method of paying is: monthly? I would think that the quicker they get their money back, the happier they would be.

But who knows.

@testsicles: nah, I digress, I just can't pass up a pooper scooper analogy. I understand what you're saying, it's all connected and less junkmail, as annoying as that may be, has an impact on the economy. I get it.

@Jakuub: I was about to say the same thing. Side/under the table gigs are a lifesaver.

I'm not seeing it either; Chase just sent me 2 card offers with a high limit and 2 years at 0%.

@AMetamorphosis: I echo this one. I spent the last 6 months paying off my chase account. Every month, I would get a letter that said "We noticed that you made a large payment to your account, we hope that we are still your #1 card." It then had a bunch of balance transfer checks included. I always chuckled that they are very interested in you staying in debt. Oh well, I am credit card debt free now and am planning to keep it that way. No Chase Freedom, just freedom!!!!

OK, I actually have a question for you all. Does this mean that stores will not back off pushing their own cards, or do they still bring in enough money to make it worthwhile? I know that Macy's will start folks with credit limits as low as $100, but will their credit card backers still allow them to basically force their employees to push the cards?
I say force because I know that raises are partially based on getting credit card apps, and new employees can be terminated if they have not gotten enough new apps in their first 90 days.

A few facts, which is why I disagree that credit cards will be a crisis of anything resembling the importance of the mortgage market:

1.)Loan-loss reserves are only really relevant to companies like AMEX, which do the actual lending. Credit limits are going down because companies like VISA and Mastercard sell debt, and the market for it has drastically reduced.

2.) Profits for credit companies will go down as spending tanks, reducing fee revenue, and credit card companies will need to lay off employees. From a loan-loss reserve perspective, though, most of the credit companies are in pretty good shape, which won't lead to the cascading failure of CDS's and such like with housing.

3.) With the reform bill, it's much harder to "walk away" from your credit card debt like you can with a house. Loan-loss reserves will not be subject to the same, sudden collapse in value like credit hedges in the mortgage arena that led to sudden, massive writedowns.

@Skankingmike: as a 3rd generation printer maybe I can provide a better perspective...

1. The printing industry has been on a steady decline for years now (an average of 2500 shops close their doors or are bought out by much larger printers or online printers like Vista-Print every year).

2. Smaller shops that are still alive typically clear less than a 1% profit margin and will end most fiscal years in the red (especially over the last 3-5 years). Many times turning a profit period is a means for jubilation!

3. Any printer that closes as a result of a decline in "junk mail" is a result of not diversifying their client base and should have seen the writing on the wall. Not to mention that there are many printers that provide an inferior product and up-charge for every little thing along the way... just like any other manufacturing industry.

4. The primary reason you're seeing less "junk mail" is a direct result of postage increases and re-classification of the types of mail and their respective rates.

As for the Graphic Arts/Design industry; the market was absolutely flooded w/ design majors throughout the 90's and early 2000's but the problem now is that people with BA's are being under-cut by teens and adults that learned to use InDesign/Photoshop/Dreamweaver on their own or through community ed. and only charge $10-$20/hr for services vs the $100-$500/hr rates of a Design firm.

Many businesses (especially small businesses) are starting to realize that they don't necessarily need all the traipsing's that a Design firm offers and that they can get by w/ a basic website/brochure/business card layout from the kid down the street...

Lately I've fielded more calls from designers who are out of work and looking for a job than I am talking about print projects and it will only continue to get worse until things come back into balance.

@pixiegirl1: We need credit cards to buy things over the internet. Unless we no longer want to buy things cheaper than Brick and Mortar, that is...

@Lars: @Fist-oâ„¢: That article does their calcs based on 2001 report, which assumedly uses 1999 data. Wasn't the issue the fact that, while real wages remained flat during the past 8 years, consumption went up?

@Skankingmike: By that logic we should legalize pretty much everything, since it would give people jobs. There are hitmen that are having trouble finding work! Yes, the economy sucks, and advertising will be the first to take the hit. Such is the life of a designer. Junk mail sucks, and there is no justification for it, even as advertisement. It does. not. work.

@ionerox: I find that they do this when you pay your card off. They probably are worried you're planning on setting it aside.

the number of pieces of junk mail the average American receives has fallen dramatically.

Bullhonky! Maybe. I'd agree if I wasn't now getting junk mail from USAA. If the banking-messiah is pushing for business, that correlated with the credit crisis, then I'd wager we'll be seeing the mailers fly. Or maybe USAA is just capitalizing on recently easing membership requirements, however slight.

@KristinaBeana: Don't know about retail, but my wamu branch tried the hard sell on me this morning for their credit card. And then, after that, to open a business account. Backing slowly away.....

@RevRagnarok: We had issues with our MBNA/BoA Mastercard. Mailed in payment 6 days before it was due and they didn't get it until the day after the due date. As a courtesy the cut the late fee in half and dropped the interest charges.

As a courtesy to them we canceled the card.

I just had Citi close out all my unused cards on their own. Apparently they're trying to limit the amount of total potential credit out there.

@blackmage439: We get weekly offers from Chase, at the peak it was about 4 each per week. It's down to 1 a week now.

I work in the direct mail industry for a company that is largely repsonsible for many of the credit card and mortgage offers you get in the mail. Aside from the banks who make their money on your interest and late fees, there is quite a chain of suppliers along the way that are supported by this.

The printer runs a couple millions forms per job and makes reply envelopes. A card printer makes those fake cards included in the mailing. The lettershop personalizes each letter, tacks on the card, folds, stuffs and mails the letters. The trucking firms move skids of mail to USPS sorting facilities. The USPS obviously delivers the mail.
Like many of you, I find getting the same offers in the mail all the time a little annoying, but it pays my salary, so I don't complain too much about it. Like many of you, my email address is what I choose to protect over my mailing address.
In some cases, I keep the solicitations and bring them to the office when they have done something unique. Anyone ever receive the fake cigarette packs from Camel? Those were expensive... wish we'd done them...

Less junk mail? Eh. I just got a new mail shredder a few months back for the impending ID fraud crisis that people think/are convinced is going to/is happening.

Plus, who doesn't like shredding their mail? (C'mon, it's a lot more fun than writing checks :) )

@Jakuub: The savings rate is what is scary. [tinyurl.com] talks about it a bit and you can find stats about how far savings have dropped since WWII.

@ionerox: I pay my card off every month and I just got a notice they are raising my limit. It will now be over the point that I can pay it off every month if I use. But since I get cash back I use it to pay for my gas and then pay it off at the end of the month.