omfg, how many companies are we going to bail out?

Relax, it'll only be the irresponsible ones. Oh.

Hey - my hand is up. I didn't have a plan for new business and my largest client walked out the door. Can I get a bail-out?

Didn't the government already bail out Chrysler in the 70s?

I should really open a business; I wouldn't have to do anything and could hit up the government for money all the time. Forget all this 'free market' nonsense, I needs to get paid!

The automotive and airlines companies know this is an election year and are taking full advantage of it. Nobody is going to vote to put people out of work in a swing-state like Michigan.

I've resigned myself to the fact that we're going to make this loan. At the very least we should say: 1) Its for retooling plants for higher efficiency cars and 2) Officer pay is frozen and no bonuses.

Maybe if Ford would bring their 65 mpg Fiesta to the US, they wouldn't need a bailout.

I vote no.

I wonder what the fallout will be when people finally realize there aren't any more "US" car makers. I used to have a GMC truck that was built in Canada. I now have a Toyota truck that was built in California.

This if pretty f*kn ridiculous! If you make bad business choices then you pay the price for it. I'm so fed up with our government helping out corporations and business but spitting in the face of their citizens.
Live by captialism then you die by capitalism.
*venting*

Sweet, maybe somehow that Chevy Volt that i am trying to budget for now to afford when it goes on sale in 2010 will be closer to $27-30k than $40k...wishfull thanking perhaps.

@CMU_Bueller: Amen. Bring on the European diesels. All the auto makers think they know what Americans want: bigger cars with more horsepower.

Guess what? Our "wants" have changed.

So, we have a free market, but we bail it out when it falls apart? I'm pretty sure that's an oxymoron.

And since our government has a staggering deficit, in reality, it will be foreign money.

So potentially Middle East oil money will help prop up the US government to help us prop up the domestic carmakers who make less fuel efficient vehicles that keep us dependent on Middle East oil.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

I have no problem with the car manufacturer's dying or being bought out. Since most of the "Foreign" carmakers operater US plants, how long till the foreign automakers employ more US autoworkes than the US companies?

They're calling for 'loans', but do they ever intend to pay us back? Welcome to the USSA, comrades!

I want an electric car that I can use for around the city, range of 200-300 miles on a single charge that can haul around a 300lb fat man without much strain!

or they could start learning from other automakers in the world and make products that last, that are clean and that people want.

@yagisencho: free vodka for everyone!

GAH. Let some of them die. If *I* could see this coming, they should have seen it, too.

What about those car companies that lended responsibily? Why can't they get free money?

@everfade: @thnkwhatyouthnk: Well said. Although the unions aren't helping.

@everfade:
I agree, putting all of my investment desires aside (not that I would buy ANY automaker's stock) It is a little troubling that US automakers are just "seeking highest possible profits" when they move their plants to Mexico, but as soon as the going gets tough they want a bail-out from the very people the have spited.

I'd be interested to hear what the people of Flint, Michigan have to say about whether or not the big three should be held afloat.

While I don't doubt there would be major economic impact from automaker failure, we live in a free market and other automakers will either move in to fill the void, or better companies will rise from the ashes.

Dear US Government:

I've done some terrible things. I've been letting myself go since the 1970's by building inferior quality and inferiorly engineered & designed products while paying no attention to the need of this planet as a whole to step away from fossil fuels.

Now, my short-sighted disregard for building a quality product, with the best interest of the consumer, the planet, and our own longevity clearly not in consideration...I need your help. A small loan of about 40 billion dollars should be all we need to start over from the ground up. And if it doesn't work, you can just tax the shit out of your citizens.

Thanks in advance,
the US auto industry

p.s. please don't let us suffer the consequenses of our own mistakes

let's be fiscally irresponsible and fundamentally inept knowing that all will be well. absolutely amazing!

K-cars for everyone!!!!

@katylostherart: Hear, hear! Eventually our government will get it that money does not grow on trees and you can't just keep handing out money to big companies that are on the verge of going under. Here are some ideas for said big companies:

1. Cut your high level management salary budget. A good place to start is with the CEO.

2. Stop spending so much on advertising. Car companies waste billions of dollars on commercials that could be better invested in these so-called improvements they want the loan for. Besides, I think everybody knows what Ford is.

3. Start making quality products that last a long time, are efficient, and look good. Just like, oh wait, those Toyotas and Hondas that actually continue to sell well.

@Secret Agent Man: i mean, why pay an american a reasonable wage when you can just pay a mexican an incredibly low but legal one? that way you screw over american by taking away their jobs and foreign workers by making them legal slaves! and all at the same time!

GM is not a car company anymore, it is a financial company. So maybe a bailout is warranted on saving our banking system.

@katylostherart: How does that screw over foreign workers? If they don't like the job, they're not being forced to take it, right? If the job is there and they take it, isn't it the best one there for them? This isn't a Wal-Mart situation where a car company moves into a Mexican town and puts all the other car companies out of business. This is adding more jobs to the Mexican town that people will take. I do agree, it does screw over the Americans that have their jobs moved south of the border.

*sputters in impotent rage*

@thnkwhatyouthnk: Quoted for truth.

Why should anyone even consider buying a Ford or GMC car if they get this bailout? If taxes are used to cover the loan the government will need to make to bail them out then in a round about way they've already gotten paid by everyone in the country.

Well the government has to bail out oligopolies that go belly up, or the consequences would be catastrophic. If you didn't think that the Repulicans were already in bed with the automakers anyhow, you're crazy. The reason they aren't producing the cars we as consumers want (fuel efficient) is because they are being told they can't by politicians. We rely too much on gas to make an affordable to the masses 70mpg vehicle. You notice all high mileage vehiles are pretty much on backorder? They don't want us to abruptly and dramatically reduce the amount of oil we consume, despite what they're telling us. In fact, republicans answer is to drill more oil, which still doesn't solve anything.

If anyone actually believes that garbage ford is spewing about their 70mpg diesel fiesta is far too gullable.

the government will benefit out of this

Its not like the airline industry

@katylostherart: I see where you're going there! And once people stop buying because all of the companies exactly like us stopped paying americans, we'll ask the government to pay us out of those same people's pockets!

wait... what?

Let the US auto industry fail. It needs a reboot anyway. There is not a single product they make that I would ever want. Corvette / Viper included. They just can't even compete in the same league with any import.

@snoop-blog: Diesel Fiestas are real: It's the Volt that is vapor!

The US automakers need to (in corporate terms) "take ownership" for their lack of foresight. They have been on the same path of big SUVS for the last 15 years, and have not had any innovative products. It's their fault - not the taxpayers'. This bailout is unamerican and represents a "nanny state" more than what makes the US great.

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. Isn't the capitolism great?

Also, I'm going to laugh and laugh and buy an Alfa Romeo when they return to the US AND set up US factories because the Euro is so strong.

[www.autoblog.com]

[www.leftlanenews.com]

@MayorBee is getting what plants crave: it screws over foreign workers by still not allowing them to have a real living wage. it gives them a better job, but not a good job and not the same benefit level that human beings as a whole deserve for their labor.

@CMU_Bueller: *new capitolism*

@snoop-blog: I don't know if I buy the whole "the government wants us to use more oil purposely." First off, since most of our oil is from foreign states, it's strategically a good idea to decrease our reliance on them.

Our thirst for oil doesn't come from the government; it comes from consumers. No matter you politics, people will vote with their $$. And so far, the "green" politicos have lost because the majority of people are unwilling to pay more for a product, just because it's "green". The only people who do pay more are affluent, but are going to get taxed under Obama's plan so will purchase cheap stuff again shortly.

Comparitively, from start to finish, oil is cheaper than any other fuel we have. Until any of the alternatives are finacially viable, this will continue and the average american will continue to purchase oil.

If the government doesn't bail out the auto industry, they will likely be purchased by others. So Toyota buys GM, so what? Toyota will likely continue to keep the US factories humming and who cares what badge is on the exterior of the car?

Our major institutions (airlines, credit cards, auto, media, healthcare, electronics) are failing in large part because of the policies of our government.

If you're unhappy about jobs going to Mexico, then remember that when you go to the pols. One candidate thinks NAFTA and CAFTA have helped the country and he wants to strengthen and expand.

Any such government bailout should include the following provisions:

1) Any executive making $1 million+ in compensation will automatically receive a 25% reduction in pay.

2) Any executive making $10 million+ in compensation will automatically receive a 50% reduction is pay.

3) If the company determines that they need to make layoffs after receiving a taxpayer funded bailout/loan (within a pre-determined amount of time from receipt of said funds), then there must be an equitable ratio of management to non-management types who get the pink slip.

On a side note, does anyone want to come over my house after school to ride my unicorn and play hide and seek with the leprechaun my mommy bought me?

@katylostherart: But isn't it better than no job at all? If auto companies had to pay what they would have paid an American worker, they wouldn't have moved factories in the first place.

Additionally, government supported social safety net programs are much more pervasive in the US than in Mexico. If you're without a job here, you have a chance of getting some help (depending on your circumstances). In Mexico, however, all you have to depend on is your friends, family, and/or neighbors if you're in the same situation. If you have a whole community that's not earning any money, you don't have a lot of help at all.

@linus: it's not cheaper than all of them if you discount the fact that it's already established and that's the one of the largest factors in its "cheap"ness.

sure it takes time and money to outfit solar and wind stuff or even nuclear. but it's not like development of the combustion engine was a free or cheap process. it took a hundred years to get to this point and it had to start somewhere. when it started it was largely unaffordable for most of the population but now it's pretty common place in most countries (at least industrialized ones).

i'll agree money does the talking regardless of politics. maybe it's just wishful thinking that people will start thinking about prevention for the future while they're filling up their tanks. you have to start somewhere. the alternatives are financially viable they just have to get off the ground into the maintenance stage of technology like oil did. oil will have exhausted its potential soon enough.

@MayorBee is getting what plants crave: Most car jobs have not moved across the border, but the have moved South, into states like Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina. GM, Ford & Chrysler's previous dominance has been replaced by Honda, Nissan and Toyota.

I see no reason to bail out Detroit or any car company. There's no reason the US government should be picking sides in the car marketplace. Sure, a lot of people would have to find new jobs if GM folded. But, that's a hallmark of a dynamic economy -- the death of old companies that couldn't compete and the birth of new companies that can.

Unfortunately, with Ohio and Michigan being swing states, these loans are almost a sure thing. The best that can be hoped for is that the bills will stall long enough to get past the election, and then they'll be voted down.

@davebg5: I would go farther:

Anyone making over $300,00 for the last two consecutive fiscal years is now compensated at the mean rate for the entire company (probably somewhere around 65K), until the company is financially solvent again.

See, the whole thing is, you have to motivate. These people speak money language, so you have to preach in a language they understand.

@MayorBee is getting what plants crave: "If auto companies had to pay what they would have paid an American worker, they wouldn't have moved factories in the first place."

kinda hit the nail on the head didn't ya?

"If you have a whole community that's not earning any money, you don't have a lot of help at all."

that's the thing, we're treating other people in our region of the world as if they're not part of our community and like their wellbeing doesn't affect ours. it's not as if we're this closed economic system floating in between two oceans. moving the plants across the borders created jobs in other places at the cost of jobs here. that in turn will eventually hurt the places where the jobs moved. it creates a bit of a wealth vacuum. as we become unable to purchase outsourced products the companies move to even cheaper shores to make up the difference between cost and earnings. then those new plants that were set up are in the same position we are.

if we're going to have foreign labor trade it needs to be on the same terms as domestic labor trade. paying a honduran 20 cents where you'd pay an american $5 screws over everyone. and if the auto industry is asking for a loan of this size, the screwing over has apparently reached the top tiers.

@cf27: it'd be nice if american brands were american brands. those companies did move.

I screwed around at work for the last 5 years and now I got fired, I can have bail out?

How much of that money will go back to political campaigns during campaign season?

@morrisseyscoot: BTW, the Volt looks like it could be real, pics leaked earlier today [www.treehugger.com] It looks nice, lets see how expensive it ends up being.