One thing I will say about the post office is that they are quick. While I sometimes watch a FedEx package sitting in a warehouse for three days before moving, the USPS packages never stay in the same spot for very long. I can understand why they are pushing an upsell. If the same package gets there within 24-48 hours of it's higher priced counterpart, I can see where they stand to gain. Of course, in todays society, that 24-48 hours is sometimes worth the extra $2-3 dollars.

The internet killed the post office star :(

Canada Post is more criminal. Expect a letter to arrive at your home a week from when someone sent it, possibly more.

If they tried to tell me this the other day when I shipped a package to my bofriend in Canada, I would have told them to shove it up their ass if they wouldn't give me first class. A 1 3/4 lb package to canada for first class cost me $7.61. The website estimate for priority mail was $29! If they had dared tried to pull that stunt I would have said fine, either give me first clss or i'll find a different courier.

So that's why I wasn't asked why I wanted Priority Mail or Parcel Post like normal when I went to the Post Office yesterday!

I knew that the USPS had to do something to offset their deficit...

Interesting to know. I still like the USPS. It is still the cheapest way to mail things all over the place. I can mail a letter for 42 cents regardless of whether it's going next door, to rural Montana, or to Hawaii. Packages are based on actual distance, not how awkward it is to get there. (See Rural Montana.) Not a bad deal, overall.

@Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->: I disagree. I sent a package from Washington, DC to Colorado last July. I paid over $50 for express shipping, which was supposed to guarantee 2-3 days. I sent it on August 14. It arrived on August 29.

They are quick when it comes to letters. But they are hardly reliable for any other service. I recently moved from an apartment to a house. I signed up for mail forwarding, and I have yet to receive a piece of mail forwarded to my house. I called my old apartment and asked them if they could check my old mailbox and lo and behold, there were several weeks worth of mail there.

It's time to phase them out and allow private competition that can deliver to a resident's mailbox, which is currently illegal.

They'd get rid of their deficit more quickly if they just started selling fancy coffee right there at the counter. Free with express mail, half price with priority, otherwise how about a nice cup of fancy coffee before you go?

Seriously, the idea of "ask if there's a cheaper way to do it" is always good advice in general. No one on the other side of a business transaction is obligated to or interested in looking after your best interests. Only you can look after your best interests. Mail, cars, doughnuts, anything at Target or Wal-Mart or wherever--always ask, always bargain.

We're not historically a bargaining society, but we are fast becoming one.

@deadspork: I hear that a lot, but I don't think I can believe it. I spend FAR more at USPS now than before I became a heavy user of the internet. From eBay to newegg.com, they get a lot more dough than a few lousy letters to some friend across town.

I can relate to this story, the last few times I've tried to send Media Mail I thought I was going to have to submit to a cavity search.

@SabreDC: I will say I disagree with you. I have had the occasional slow package show up, but 97% of the time, they show up damn quick. Hell, since my area is considered "rural", I can buy postage from my mailman(really great when you don't have a stamp and just put the exact change on the envelope in your mailbox), money orders, etc... Try doing that with UPS or FedEx.

@afrix: For years, I asked EVERYWHERE if they offered student discounts while I had a valid student ID. you would be surprised the places that do.

They best way to avoid this is to pay for your postage online before you go. Unfortunately, the USPS site only has it for priority (last time I checked, anyway) but if you have a paypal account you can use it's shipping feature to ship any class, including media mail - even if it's not an ebay transaction or you don't have any money in your paypal account. There is a fatwallet thread on how to do it.

Also, I've never used it, but many post offices have those automatic 24-hour lobby postage machines - I would imagine they would let you select your class of mail and compare rates as well.

I have a package to send media mail - I'll take in Monday and see if they automatically try to sell me Priority. Doesn't really matter though, since all consumers have to do is know what they want - no problem to say "media" please. I like my post office!

@madanthony: Those machines only sell you stamps from what I have seen.

I am in an area that sending a package across town doesn't have to be an option. I can typically drop it off when I am in the area.

I try to avoid the USPS for anything except letters.

I've been getting that spiel every time I've gone to the post office for a while now. Even if I say outright 'Hi, I'd like to ship this package first class, no insurance but I would like delivery confirmation, please' they'll do the whole thing from start to finish. I just repeat myself until I get offered the service I'm requesting. One of our local post office branches has a machine in the lobby that lets you weigh your package and print out postage, but it's rare not to find an 'out of order' sign on it.

No matter where it happens, I hate upselling and will do my best to minimize my business with any place that encourages it.

It concerns me to see USPS behaving more and more like the privatized hybrid they are rather than than the public service they really should be.

They're still an iconic brand, they're still the only possible means of delivering mail to every single address in the country (try that with the others), and they're still the best value for most services. During our last hurricane here in south Florida, every other public agency closed but we got our mail on time. That's impressive customer service. My mail carrier genuinely cares for me as a customer and a citizen, and provides me with day after day of excellent service.

Of late, however, they've been abusing employees, promoting unecessary fees, and behaving very much like their lesser competitors. It saddens me that they bounce their Web traffic from usps.gov (which they should be proud of) to usps.com, which makes them seem like so much less.

The U.S. Mail is a symbol of America, and I hope the postal service's privatization creep ends soon.

@hillsrovey: Remember, media mail can take anywhere from 2 to 8 weeks. I sent out 4 packages on Friday and am sending 2 tomorrow. They are going cross country and I had the option to send them media mail. They are also rather heavy so they probably would not be exactly a priority for the free space on the truck. (Required heavy lifting and all) Yeah right! They are going Fed Ex. 4 days total.

@JulesNoctambule: Don't shop much, huh? Every business that sells something encourages upselling. It is part of making money, which is what a business is supposed to do.

Now whether an employee does it or not is another question. Of course, these are they same employees that everyone whines about not being all that smart, etc.

@thelushie: I hate upselling, too, and I really don't shop at most places that do it. I do most of my shopping on the Internet, partly for this reason. It seems that the upselling junk is most rampant in industries where you can easily get the stuff online (like consumer electronics). It just drives people like me to never set foot in a Best Buy or Circuit City.

funny how when government starts running like a profit driven business, people freak out.

Depending on how much you ship a month, it might be an option to purchase a scale. In fact, I have a really inexpensive non-digital scale that has never failed me. I use that plus a regular tape measure to ship my eBay goods. I can then choose the best, least expensive way to ship. If you use PayPal to ship, you can get free delivery confirmation as well. The USPS carrier-pick up is als great! I don't have to waste gas driving to the post office.

However, I do understand that people ship just a few packages a year. But if your nickle and dimed each time it may be a good idea to explore other options.

Also, the USPS isn't a business. It's part of the executive branch and established in the U.S. Constitution. They're goal isn't profit.

Eeek, too many grammar mistakes in my post! Sorry, had a long night...

I've noticed this upsell the last two times I've had to go to the post office in the last month. I heard almost the same exactly thing from two different people. Each time I said, "I want this shipped in the cheapest way possible," and got it with no argument. I can see how a lot of people get sucked into this because no other options are presented and not everyone knows what the shipping terminology is for "cheapest way possible." I think it's "standard ground shipping" but I'm not even sure.

I try to avoid the post office at all costs (pay all bills online so there is no need for stamps.) This gives me another reason to do so because I know there will come a time when I'm hungover, trying to mail a birthday present, and I will agree to a 1 lb box for $20 with insurance.

Do we even still need a federal Post Service?

The post offices in my area (Washington, DC and Maryland suburbs) have already been doing this for years. They only offer Express Mail or Priority Mail. I have to look at the screen myself and check the First Class/Parcel Post rate.

I trade books online, so I send a lot of packages by Media Mail, and that's not even listed on the screen as an option. You just have to know about it and ask for it, then go through the "your package may be opened and we'll throw you in jail if there's anything but books in there" speech.

Mailing hassles aside, I love the USPS for receiving packages. They're the only company that consistently gets into my apartment building every time, unlike UPS (the worst offender) and FedEx, which half the time posts some notice on the outside door whining about not being able to get in, even though they have keys, just because they don't feel like taking the time to go inside and make the delivery, which forces me either to go to their facility or else get the package sent back and reshipped. Whenever I order something I ask to have it shipped by USPS if at all possible.

I work at a contract post office, and was informed that this is supposed to start Jan. 1, 2009. Usually, my customers just say they want it the cheapest, and then I give them their options. Otherwise, I reccomend printing postage off the USPS website. If you have a small scale, you can figure it out yourself, and you don't have to waste your time in lines, and listening to ridiculous pricing...

Hopefully, I won't be working there by Christmas.

Send gift cards people. It's $.42, and easier!

I love the post office, regardless of this new policy. It is nice to get the info on it, though.

I throw my Netflix in my mailbox, flag up, before 3:00, and I get another movie the next day. Granted, this is partly because there's a distribution center in my town, but I still think that's pretty danged quick.

I work at a contract postal station. They said it;s supposed to start on Jan. 1, 2009. Your best bet is just to go online to USPS.com and print off your own postage. Don't even bother with the post office... Or just ask the clerk for ALL your options right away... then take the cheapest. Flat rate Priority is always good if you are sending boxes... $9.80 for up to 70lbs, if you can fit it in the box.

And send gift cards for christmas. It's going to save you $20-30 in shipping.

Hopefully, I won't be working there by christmas.

This is on the same level as only having the Flat Rate priority boxes available in the offices, making you waste time and their gas to order the non-flat rate boxes online.

Never ever use the USPS. Its a waste of time and money. And that tracking thingy they have is a complete joke. Expect to lose 1 out of 3 packages you send via US Post. The rest will be delayed.

Our Company will never send anything via the post office. Its either Fed Ex or UPS or DHL every time.

@deadspork: who said"The internet killed the post office star :("

I know you were joking, but you are actually very close to the source of the issue!

About 8 years ago, USPS was one of my clients, and I therefore had to learn their business model. Until about 1999, the USPS could very accurately predict the volume of first class mail based on census figures of US adults. The USPS never anticipated how quickly people would adopt online bill paying (bill presentment and payment made a HUGE percentage of US mail) and also failed to anticipate how quickly people would adopt online tax returns (another HUGE annual boost in business). Their models were out the window, at a time when they had spent an obscene amount of money to expedite an automate first class mail. Yo9u know those little bar codes that are on your mail? That means it can be automated--a machine reads the zip code.

The USPS delivers 97% of first class mail within 24 hours. Shocking, isn't it?

The other thing that people don't seem to realize is that the USPS is supposed to be a 'break-even' operation. When rate hikes go into effect, they are generally expected to cover three years. The first year, the USPS makes money, the second, they are even, the third, they lose. Over the course of the three years, they break even.

They have an impossible business model--they must reach every address in the US, daily, no matter how unprofitable those addresses prove to be.

They wised up and began leasing their 'last mile' capability to other shippers in the early 90's. It may be unprofitable for, say,UPS to get a package to East Middle Of Nowhere three times a year, but hey, the USPS is obligated to maintain that profitless network, so the USPS takes those packages the 'last mile' because they have the network in place.

The internet, internet bill pay, internet seasonal greetings and invitations, internet shopping and internet transfer of overnight documents really did catch the USPS unaware. They all converged to turn their business model on its head. The ease with which their employees could retire, with full benefits, in their mid forties with now two or more wives to pay did not help. Their training was way behind there, because these employees, back when people stayed married, stayed at the post office, rather than collecting their full salary as pension in their forties and seeking higher paying jobs in the private sector.

I'm not surprised. I went to mail a package a few weeks ago recycling a beer box from Magic Hat that had the words Magic Hat on it. I was told that they could not accept the package because packaging that held wine or beer bottles tempts their workers into stealing, regardless of the current contents. I was then told I would have to buy one of their boxes from the mailing supplies counter if I wanted the package shipped.

The fact that they openly admitted that their employees steal isn't great advertising in my book!

@thelushie: When I let an employee know at the start of a transaction exactly what kind of services/goods I want and they proceed to ignore me and offer the automatic upsell, the transaction becomes an annoyance for me and yes, my business goes elsewhere. It may be hard for you to believe, but plenty of places manage to make money without making the business transaction irritating for their customers.

@vermontwriter: You should have just asked for a sharpie.

But who ships stuff in a beer box? Those things are barely better then paper thin. Priority boxes are free with priority shipping, and you can get shipping grade cardboard everywhere for like free.

I wondered about this. I dropped off a two page letter in a large envelope at the post office yesterday. When I did so they only offered express and priority. I gave the clerk a rather odd look and asked if it could be shipped first class, and that is how it went.

vermontwriter,

Regardless of what they said, they couldn't accept the package because the labeling on the box indicated it held liquids. The postal employess are not allowed to mark out the labeling, only the sender can do that and the markings must be completely obliterated. Same thing with any hazardous material.

@drnmr: I apologize, but your 1 out of 3 statement seems pretty unfounded. Do you maybe live in a more rural area? I'm curious as to what part of the country you're in that your mail service is THAT bad.

My only issue with USPS is their long lines in their centers. Other than that, the only bad experience I had was some damn woman asking the employee's opinion for "stamps that convey affection, but not too girly, and commitment too" at fifteen minutes until closing time with a long line behind her. I could've strangled her.

Same when you ship something abroad ...USPS dropped international surface mail "to offer more integrated service" or something. When I wanted to ship something heavy but was in no hurry, I'd always used it.
Recently I was trying to send some used baby clothes and toys to my sister in Japan -- she's due in January, so taking 2 month by surface mail was totally fine -- but then I was told there was no other way than to ship it with priority. After telling me it would cost me $120, the USPS lady asked: "Do you STILL want to send it!? Used baby dress!?". I did anyways, because going to DHL or FedEx store with big package and my toddler son was also a pain in my rear end. Other countries I've recently visited (France, Italy, Switzerland and Japan) are still offering postal surface mails, even some of them also have financially troubled postal system. They just don't believe "integrating service" like that will improve their finance...

The USPS is too important infrastructure wise. I have never had a problem getting or sending packages and letters through them. Since the service is too important, we subsidize it.

Better than UPS running the show.

@drnmr: I've sent and received several packages via USPS and never had anything lost.

If you run Windows, Shipping Assistant is by far the easiest way to do mailings. Unlike their online Click N Ship service, it happily offers you First Class and Media Mail.

You still have to keep stamps around, or pay at the post office, but it really speeds up mailing (and you get almost-free tracking).

I pretty much use the US Postal Service exclusively and have stopped using UPS. Maybe if they made their website suck less and lowered their rates I would consider using them again. It's pathetic how badly they are being beaten by the government postal monopoly.

I'm not really surprised at this type of behavior, it happens all the time.

At the local grocery store chain, baggers are told to ask "is plastic okay?" instead of the typical "paper or plastic?" because it's cheaper to the store to use more plastic bags. Paper is still an option no matter what, you're just hoping to convince a handful of people to just go with plastic and save the store a few pennies.

I love the post office. 42¢ to send a letter anywhere in the country? And it generally takes four days to get there? Remarkable! Sure fedex is faster and the tracking is better, but for three-day service it's a minimum of $12!

Bulky boxes are cheaper to ship by UPS, so I generally do, but anything less than a pound or in an envelope is super-cheap by USPS.

>>I apologize, but your 1 out of 3 statement seems pretty unfounded. Do you maybe live in a more rural area? I'm curious as to what part of the country you're in that your mail service is THAT bad.<<

Nah, drnmr's just pulling numbers out of his ass. I've been selling on ebay and Amazon for about eight years now, and have shipped somewhere in excess of 20,000 packages through the USPS. Approximately 1 in 500 has been totally lost in the system (or, my guess most often, delivered to a different address and that person kept it). I also shipped thousands upon thousands of (larger) packages through UPS, and the loss rate was about the same. The only real difference is that UPS will actually try to find out what happened when a package goes missing or damaged, while USPS usually will not.

Generally speaking, the USPS is very reliable. Not perfect, of course -- as long as there are humans involved there is always the chance of human error. But by and large, pretty good.

FYI, someone complained about media mail shipping times. I generally ship out 30-40 media mail packages a week, and the average delivery time is 6.2 days (Endicia is good at producing detailed stats on that sort of thing). For in-state packages the average is 2-4 days, for east or west coast the average is 6-8 days. Occasionally (about 5% of the time) a package can get stuck in the system for some unknown reason and take 20-plus days for delivery, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

For anyone who is doing a fair amount of USPS business on a regular basis, I strongly recommend looking into some of the online postage systems like Endicia or Stamps. I use Endicia, it costs $15 a month but I can print out postage on my printer. No special equipment (other than a $20 kitchen scale) or special labels. Addresses are automatically checked against the USPS database for accuracy, an email is automatically sent to the recipient with delivery confirmation number and information, delivery confirmation only costs 18 cents instead of 75 cents at the counter, and I get 5% discount on priority and international postage. No need to even go to the counter at the post office (unless I have an APO/FPO over a pound, or international package over four pounds, which is very rare), just drop it in the slot and go. No fuss, no muss, no worries. It's worth it just to avoid those lines at the counter alone.

I sell a lot on ebay and trade things with collectors a lot. I am at the post office at least 4 times a week. I have noticed this the last month or so. I have had to ask for first class or parcel post. Or comment about how it's on their screen but they didn't offer it to me.

A month ago, the clerk's spiel was more along the lines of 'first class is $3.22 and will get it there in about 5 days. priority is only $1 more and will get it there in about 2-3 days.' Now it's exactly what the letter stated. very very pushy.

I avoid it all together whenever I'm sending domestic packages and just use the automated postal center in the lobby. ;)

Don't be hatin' on USPS y'all. I run a small business that ships books and software by Priority Mail, and we've been nothing but happy with them. We get free pickup at our home based office and it's damn cheaper than any rate UPS will give us, by a long shot (and twice as fast as UPS Ground).

The only area I have a beef with as far as USPS is rude counter service... fortunately I've only seen that being common in the Austin, Texas substations.

Perhaps if they accepted charge cards with Check for I.D. written on the back of them instead of rejecting them, they wouldn't be in this $1B hole. :P
Like Democracy, the Post Office is the worst, until the alternatives are considered. However, considering they ARE a public institution, I'd expect more ethical behavior than seeing them pull a Wal-Martesque bait-n-switch. Shame on you, Mr. Speedy!

"Do we even still need a federal Post Service?"

They're not really a federal agency, first. They are a private organization that has some powers granted them by law, such as the legal monopolies your cable provider enjoys.

But to answer the question, yes, we need them. It has been discussed many times that UPS or Fedex could deliver first class mail, and there are several reasons why this is not possible. The first is that the USPS has a statutory monopoly on delivering first class mail - in addition to the various federal laws such as the USPS being the only entity legally allowed to leave mail in mailboxes, there is also a constitutional clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 7) which would have to be overcome - not likely.

An additional consideration is that all the services are highly intertwined and codependent - one services airfleet will carry packages and mail for the others, and vice versa, all 3 ways around.

The real problem is that UPS and Fedex will only want to ship to the most profitable areas, whereas the USPS will deliver at the same low price to anyone in the country, no matter how rural, no matter how unprofitable it is do so, no matter where in the world the APO or FPO is. They have to - see again that clause. So yes, we still need the USPS.

That being said, although they are losing money this year, and despite the general public image - the USPS generally turns a profit. In 2004, and again in 2005, they turned over a billion dollars in profit. I think with the current gas prices, the company that owns the largest civilian vehicle fleet in the world not doing well financially is sort of understandable. UPS's profits have falled 21% this year, and that's with passing on fuel surcharges and costs to customers - something the USPS has not done.

I suppose this explains why the post office near my office got rid of both stamp machines, leaving me with two options for postage:

1) Use the automated stamp machine that only takes credit cards but also won't let you charge any purchase under $1.00, or wait on the long-ass line just for one stamp where they do, yes, try to push you towards Express / Priority.

@SJActress: That has everything to do w/ netflix, and nothing to do w/ the post office. Netflix has shipping facilities all over the place. When you drop a Netflix movie in the mailbox, you can rest assured knowing it doesn't have very far to go before it's back with them.

The post office does a damn fine job with letters..... and nothing else. Gather around kids, it's story time!!

I once had a package that had shipped out to me via usps priority mail wind up missing for two weeks. The sender emailed me to confirm that it had gone out on time, and to let me know that the tracking number indicated that it was at my local post office. I received no notification whatsoever that this was the case. I contacted the post office, and sure enough, it was there. I explained the situation and asked that they send it out the next day. When I saw the mailman coming down the street, I stepped outside to greet him and take the package directly. I lived in an apartment at the time with locked mailboxes. The package would have fit easily into my mailbox, but let's ignore that fact for now. The mailman handed it to me, and said something along the lines of "Well, I tried to deliver it about a week ago" to which I replied "It should have fit in the mailbox - but even so, why didn't you leave a note in the mailbox to let me know it was at the post office?" He replied "I did" to which I said " I never got it" to which he responded confidently "It must have gotten lost in the mail" I was absolutely speechless - he IS "the mail". From that point on I decided to pay extra to get ups shipping whenever it is available - I get a tracking number that provides me with a heads up about every step along the way. Well worth the extra two - three dollars.