Meh. I'm glad Jewish funerals are as bare-bones as they are. We wouldn't even use those simple wooden caskets if they weren't legally required in most places.

@Erwos: Ditto.

Aren't there quite a few health risks involved with handling an embalmed body as well? I'd personally risk expsoure to infectious agent (which can probably be scrubbed off) vs. toxic chemicals.

A significant goal of mine by the time my wife and I are middle aged is to find a way around the laws that prevent your family from burying you on your own property. I had a friend just lose her father to cancer, and the stories she told of the greed and insensitivity of the funeral home (and the amount of cash they had to lay out even though they elected to cremate) were just horrifying.

I want to be laid to rest in my own land, slowly encouraging the oak tree which my descendants or college buddies or whatever will plant over my grave. Why would anyone want to be buried in a sterile golf course and pay thousands of dollars for the privilege?

This opinion is reinforced by the walks I used to take near a large Atlanta cemetery. You could hike along the edge of their land and find the piles of headstones they had bulldozed out of the way to make room for more. What a great way to spend six or seven grand, huh?

yah. I'm with Erwos. I have always found the "viewing" aspect of other burials kind of scary.
And I have never understood the whole several thousand dollars for a casket thing.
Just put me in a simple, cheap as anything box and let me be.

Just don't forget to leave the light on and a few magazines in case I get bored in the purgatory waiting room.

They're trying to scare or freak people into buying a $5000 casket, etc. etc. It's all about money. If there's a possibility of exhumation, sure, preserve away. But other than that, I'm not spending that kind of money on my own funeral, which I'm looking into preplanning.

I'd like to donate myself to the body farm.

I desire to be cremated & returned to the earth. with the lowest outlay of cash.

I'm freakin' dead, what the hell do I care? $1 or $10,000? same to my dead ass!

Green all the way, baby.

This is the biggest load of horseshit ever!!

bodies take at least a few days to decompose (assuming that the recently deceased is recent)

there will not be a sinkhole (go check out a grave from 18 whatever, no sinkhole)

buired at 6' decomposition and decay are slowed because worms and the like don't go that deep.

all cheap caskets can hold, and you don't always need a pallbearer (that's why they use the cart)

typical funeral home scams... if they try that on you say you will abandon the body and let the state cover the costs.

@opsomath: "You could hike along the edge of their land and find the piles of headstones they had bulldozed out of the way to make room for more. What a great way to spend six or seven grand, huh?"

You may be right. But I know in the case of my grandparents, they did that because they did not die at the same time. So when my grandfather died a year after my grandmother, they had to toss out the old headstone and put in a new one with both names on it.

The entire funeral industry is a despicable, predatory conglomeration that does nothing but prey on people during times of emotional distress. It just disgusts me.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with that disclaimer. Especially in sue-happy USA. That's only common sense...

No embalming = natural process of rotting.
No monument = difficulty to finding the grave years down the road.

I lost both my mother and father to cancer. Save the pity; it was years ago. But I had to dispose of both of them.

Mom made it clear she wanted to be cremated. No problem. We go to the funeral home. This was back in early 1990. We tell the funeral director "cremation". He tells us we still need a box. I point to one, looking at the price tags, and he blanches (as I've pointed at the cheapest). "That's for paupers funerals".

I say "well, why do we need a casket anyway, she's going to be cremated" "It's for protection" he says. "For who?" I ask.

"It's about AIDS" he says. I just glare at him. What an idiot, how absurdly stupid and vile.

My sister grabs my arm, her clue to pipe down. She's 8 months pregnant at the time.

We select a common box (around $1000...the cheapest apropos...) and then ask about the cremation. He goes into vague detail and then, towards the end, says "...the remains are returned in a fine corrugated box..."

At this point, my sister starts laughing. "You mean mom's coming home in a cardboard box?!" she snorted. Her husband worked in the industry. That pushed her button.

In the end, for $1500, it was done. A total ripoff.

But nothing like the ride my Dad's second wife took when she buried him. $18,000 for a "sealed" casket, another $5000 for makeup (he had been a cancer patient for 2 years and she insisted on an open casket - 3 weeks after he died). When it was all said and done, she spent close to $30,000 to plant him.

The death industry is a one last chance to screw the public out of their money.

Personally, I've written in my will that I'm to be cremated, paid for it in advance. No one collects nothing until a few of my ashes are run through my motorcycles and cars.

Now that's disposal.

And this is nothing compared to graveyards' laws in QC, one of Canadian provinces. The law says that the cemetery plot is rented for 50 years, not owned. So after 50 years, you can renew the plot rent, or someone might get buried on the same spot. *shudder*

Some people write in their wills that they want to be buried in other provinces, due to that insanity... Or cremated.

I say burn my body and toss it in a landfill. (That is, unless I do something really important. Then I want a mausoleum and a state funeral.)

Never quite understood why a dead body needs a 2000-lb head stone, 300-lb casket, and a 12'x6' plot of land with a view of the ocean.

I'm going to be cremated and put into a cardboard box wrapped in brown shipping paper and twine. There will be a stamp on the box that says 'Return to Sender'.

The funeral business revolves around bilking emotionally vulnerable people out of money. It's a legalized racket and no one has any intention of doing anything about it, since funeral companies have duped everyone into thinking that getting screwed is part of the grieving process. Also, a lot of their customers are old people who will die soon and just want some place to be buried, and so they tend to not care too much if they're losing a lot of money because they'll be dead anyway and have much more imminent concerns.

They hate green burials because they can't talk you into buying a very expensive casket (which often costs more than a new car) or a very expensive headstone (which is often very quickly and sloppily engraved, because dead people can't check spelling and dates).

In my family we've all agreed that in the event of death we get donated to a medical school, because then they take care of the cremation and they usually buy a nice urn or something to put you in. Or, in the case of one of my uncles (who was a doctor) they put his ashes in a specimen jar and labeled it with a pig-latin version of his name, as per his request.

so the side effect of a green burial is that our body will decompose? THE HUMANITY! I hope when I'm old I do not become delusional and agree to some ridiculous burial package

I want an unremarkable death to go along with my unremarkable life.

@oneandone: Me? I'd go with the chemicals as the effect will likely be local whereas contact with a bacterium on a corpse can do a fuck of a lot worse. Best still is cremation because if you want to preserve DNA, a snip of hair will do nicely and there's no logical reason to inter a full-on dressed body in an elegant death parlor casket unless you're well and truly nuts.

@DogStarMan: "I want an unremarkable death to go along with my unremarkable life."

But you want a KICK-ASS BURIAL!

One more thing: In college I spent pretty much every weekend evening technically "embalmed" and no permanent harm came of it.

Hasn't the funeral industry been at this for... well, ages?

Jessica Mitford wrote her exposé on it in 1963. And it's hardly gotten smaller or more cooperative since then.

I'm with the first poster. My grandfathers died within 8 months of each other. One was Jewish, and the other Roman Catholic. After comparing those services and burials so close together... I'd prefer the Jewish one any day.

@incognit000: Most medical schools usually also have a nice, public memorial service to recognize all the people who donated their bodies. My best friend was in med school and found it to be quite moving. Families are invited as well.

My side of the family seems to favor cremation with a memorial service a week or so later when everyone can be there, which is definitely what I want for myself. My husband's side does the whole open casket viewing, graveside burial thing. This advisory is totally aimed at them and is unnecessarily scary. You'd think there were these giant fields of smelly sinkholes left over from the 300 years of dead people BEFORE modern burials.

@Erwos: Agreed. The whole idea of wanting to view someone who's dead sort of wigs me out. Nice, closed casket is my ideal.

I've never had to go through the funeral process so I'm not sure what the experience is like. But I would think a lot of these problems can be addressed before the person kicks it.

I am preferring to be cremated, and so does my mom. Not sure why we need a burial or anything.

@bmwloco: I'm 40 years old and (luckily?) know nothing about planning funerals. Are you really telling me you had to spend $1000 for a box that was going to be burned? This is... nauseating. I'm literally feeling ripped off for you.

If people want to "visit" when I'm dead, they can come to my home and be surrounded by my family and my friends and my things... not some sterile, ugly funeral parlor where my family will have been bilked for thousands and thousands of dollars.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to go about planning a 'green' funeral in New York?

@G99: My grandmother simply purchased a double headstone and had we her name added when we had her unveiling (one year after death)

I'm no expert, but the green funeral they must have in mind must use a cardboard box of some sort? Made of soy? Even a plain wooden box should be able to be carried. Settling did occur in older graveyards. If you happen to see a graveyard with perfectly flat ground, there was probably some filling done.

Donate your body.

Final disposition becomes the problem of the new owner. I assume what doesn't end up inside other people will end up in a hospital incinerator, or as a crash test dummy.

@sketchy: When you donate your body to medicine, the body is actually returned to the funeral home for final disposition when they are through with it. Depends on what state you live in, but I belive the family has the option to bury or cremate at that point.

As the son of a funeral director, there are many issues that the public isn't aware of when it comes to burial. In MA, it is state law that the casket is buried in a concrete vault. I dont know about you, but I wouldn't feel comfortable about that eco-friendly dead body leaching into my well water. Also, without embalming, the time is severely limited for transport and viewing without seeing some issues, including flies and smells. One of the benefits of a traditional burial in a casket is that it leaves the body available for exhumation if the need arrises.

@badgeman46: But you're okay with all the embalming fluids leeching into your well water?

I think a green funeral is the way to go.

I would not want my loved ones to waste money upon my death. I would prefer to be cremated or buried in one of the green cemeteries that plats a tree instead of a head stone.

I do not want to be embalmed and buried in a casket with a concrete vault - I would rather decompose with nature.

@sir_eccles: I was going to say the same thing after reading that!

I do not see how embalming fluid could be any better...

The entire funeral industry is sick and wrong. I'm sorry but it's flat-out immoral to waste perfectly good land and money on storing artificially-preserved corpses. What was worse is that my family does none of these disgusting things, but still has to deal with this evil industry just for cremation. I've already told my whole family, just dig a hole and chuck me in it. If you try to send me through the funeral industry, I will come back to haunt you. Though knowing how cheap my family is, they'll probably just dig a grave in the woods to save money!

I just want to be dumped in a hole as soon as I die. The thought of buying a useless casket and being fixed up just for a few days to be seen actually scares me. Waste of money and I just don't like the idea of people doing those things they do at the funeral home. I am sure there's laws against a fresh dead person being buried.

As a funeral director in NYS, i can understand alot of people being very upset with things like this. The reason why the material is spelt the way that it is, frankly is because death is a very sensitive issue. As a funeral director, if anything goes wrong, a mispelled name in an obituary or dad doesnt have the right floral peice. The family gets upset and you are usually the person who gets yelled at. Its spelt out like this not because as an industry were not open to it, but because you have to be amazingly detailed about what can happen ten years down the line or the such. if your not, then a family can and will sue, people sue because funeral homes have shaved part of a moustache or trimmed one up, and its called mutilation. Its essentially just like another business where you could get hurt, its just a major liability.

More importantly, the funeral industry in the 70's with jessica mitford is/was absolutly disgusting. Yes, we as an industry as a whole were shown as monsters and that hasnt disappeared. With me Its very hard to go day to day, and hear about how all these people ahve bad experiences and hate us so much. Thats why i became a funeral director, i come from a family with no funeral background but with alot of helping carrers ( fireman, parole officer, teachers)In school theres still bad apples, but its sour we all get balmed and casted to the fire with everyone else.The new wave of funeral directors are very modern and open to alot of things like this. I am one of these people. I have done several green burials and dont mind doing them. There are some health risks, and you just need to address them with a family and make sure there prepared for things like this. Thats where that wordy document comes in, we have a simple form we read to the family they have to sign, just understanding everything in case an issue arises. In new york state and many other states, you cannot deny a family to see a loved one, one last time. Even if its a skeleton ( which has happened ), but if a body is in such a manner you feel uncomfertable showing a family this, thats where the forms come in. Its just to protect a funeral home in case of a possible problem

Im just tryingt o give a view from someone on the other side, i will probably be burned and yelled at for posting this but i just want to put my two cents in. I dont own a funeral home, i dont make the prices. I tell familes to try and personalize things, bring a music cd they enjoyed, or bring in flowers and her garden gloves cause she loves planting, anything to make the family feel more comfertable. i tell families that a casket is like a car, theres diffrent makes and models, but they all get us from point a to point b. I dont care what the family selects, i dont make commision, i just honestly want to make sure theyre happy. Cause to be honest i got into the business to honestly just help people, i would take a a full heart thank you and a hug over selling anything any day, no matter what my boss thinks.

Also sorry for the spelling and grammer, i just dont have time to write this out in a complete manner.

All I know is that I'm still young and will probably want to go this route when the time comes. Either this or donate my body to science. My father has already told me, if it's possible, that he wants his body to be thrown into the woods, or go the route of sailing out to sea on a burning funeral pyre. To me, that sounds a hell of a lot cooler than being stuck under a whole bunch of "fancy" wood and six feet of earth. Hell, do they even go down six feet anymore?

Just so ya all know there is one funeral director in Canada that has never charged for for anything in regards to a child's funeral the family comes in makes the arrangements but they will never see a bill. And do donate your body to the medical schools there are more than doctors that benefit physiotherapists dentists EMT's nurses ect.

reminds me of the snl skit happy fun ball
-DECEDENT may explode if unenbalmed, REPRESENTATIVES should not look directly at the DECEDENT as it may cause retinal burns, the DECEDENT may come back to life an seek the brains of the REPRESENTATIVE, don't taunt the DECEDENT,if unenbalmed the DECEDENT may look deceased and unnatural...

My aunt recently passed away from cancer and we went through the whole funeral process - she wanted a viewing, graveside service, etc. She tried to save money by requesting the funeral home at the cemetery perform the embalming and preparation instead of one a few miles down the road. Since the grave and the funeral home are both in the cemetery you don't have to rent a hearse, driver, etc, right? WRONG! The funeral home charged our family an extra $800 to drive the casket from the funeral home to the grave, both of which were on site and less than 200 yards away.

The reason they rip us off?? Because they can.

Hi all,

I'm the guy who wrote the article criticizing this disclaimer form. I'm glad this provoked discussion - but I want to clear up a few misconceptions some commenters have about funerals, burial, and the law. There's so much misinformation out there that costs people money and boxes them in to funerals they don't want.

Badgeman46, above, wrote that his state law requires a concrete burial vault. Not true. There is no state law in the US that requires a vault as a condition of burial. There is no state law that requires a coffin as a condition of burial, either.

Also, there's no environmental problem from dead bodies decomposing in the ground - that's nature. If the funeral industry is so concerned about it, why don't they form a charity to embalm every dead cow, deer, squirrel and piece of road kill? Honestly.

If anyone's interested in getting *facts* about funerals, hop over to funerals.org. The original story on this green burial indemnification form debunks some common mortuary mythology.

Do you know why funeral directors exist? Because your average person does not know the laws and method for disposing of a body, and most do not have the desire. So there is a need for the funeral director. Do you know why a funeral director charges so much? Because he has to keep the lights on. Do you know how many bodies a funeral director will handle in a year? No, and neither does he, so he has to make sure he charges enough to cover his expenses.

Obviously there are bad funeral directors. Stay away from the corporately held funeral homes, their pricing is dictated by corporate headquarters and not by their directors. They are also under pressure to make their sales target, which forces them to be a little bit slimier than the rest.

So go with an independent. Most of them happily advertise that they are family owned. Pre-plan and shop around. Do your homework. Much of what most people think is the funeral director trying to rip them off is really the funeral director presenting products that the family needs to decide upon when they're having one of the worst days of their lives. "I just lost my mother, and you want to sell me a vault?" In reality, the family needs a vault for the cemetery they want to go to, but since they don't know anything about them, they feel as though they are getting ripped off.

So the general public, because they've never taken the time to think rationally about their own impending demise, thinks they are getting bilked when the reality is they've never done the research. How do you expect the industry to react? Funeral directors will still be a necessity, even if everyone is getting cremated or using a green cemetery. They also have a right to profit. They went to school, they took out the loans for a multimillion dollar facility, they pay to have people on staff. So although some of their practices are a bit sketchy (a sealer casket? come on) by and large most of what they do is above board, with dignity in mind.

Why does any of that even matter? What is the obsession with looking at a dead body, and needing to know where it is after it is dead? A person isn't in a body, but in the experiences had with that person.

Dust to dust, right? Seems like green burial is more in line with that notion than the obsession with preserving dead bodies that are going to be put in the ground.

@emilymarion333: It's not. The difference is the concrete vault that surrounds the casket. It's not very green, but it does keep your gunk from getting into well water.

Please throw out my remains in a Hefty bag and use all of the money saved to throw a kick-ass party or have my family take a great vacation! Now that's money well spent. When you die, what other options are legally available. This industry has to be making money hand over fist. It's like they have a monopoly on death.

This discussion thread is so upsetting that I've decided not to participate at all...

I AM NOT GOING TO DIE!

Take that funeral industry!

Does anybody want one of these fancy, expensive funerals? I see the comments in this thread are virtually 100% against spending $20K-$30K on paying for a chemical-based, polished-casket ceremony.

If anybody disagrees, please comment... I'm just curious.

@sir_eccles: @emilymarion333: I think the point trying to be made by badgeman46 is that state law requires a concrete vault to go around the body to prevent fluids - embalmed or otherwise - from leeching into the ground. That being the case, one's desire for a minimalist type funeral is somewhat limited by the requirements of the state.