Reason # 54325473345342543325432 of why not to buy a Ford.

@ViperBorg: Exatctly. Yet American car companies keep wondering why we don't buy their products.

it's exactly what I expect from Ford. This story only validates it.

Yep, I worked for Ford for a year, getting laid off in Feb. '08, trust me, they're Idiots, the management at least. After working in NYC for nearly a decade, coming to Michigan and seeing these fools, it's no wonder at All why the company is going down the tubes.

I forgot to add, Amateur Hour!

Jeff, my family's business runs a small fleet of company cars: all Chevrolet, after a couple of bad experiences with 2006 Pontiacs.

One of the `08 Chevys developed an oil leak last spring. Chevrolet, through our local dealer, replaced the motor under warranty without hesitation...and offered a free loaner.

I'm sorry you've had such an awful experience with Ford. There are millions of F-150s on the road, so they can't all be bad. That said, you might look into a Chevy Silverado; millions of those are still rolling, too.

I have a vaguely similar story with Ford. After a hailstorm I go out to check my truck for damage and see small cracks in the paint all over the hood. Assuming it is hail damage I call my insurance company. Upon inspection they tell me its not hail, its just bad paint. I took the truck to a Ford dealership and they agreed. I did not, at that time apparently, get put into the computer system. At that time the mileage was at 35,800. 200 miles still left on the warranty.

When I returned to schedule repairs I had 36,300 miles on the truck. I was told the truck was no longer under warranty and I would have to pay for the repairs myself. 2 months of arguing with the dealer, Ford, the dealer I purchased the car from.. No amount of reason was going to get me anywhere. This pre-dates Consumerist.

Up to that point I had never purchased anything but a Ford. Since that time I've purchased two Hondas, and my next truck will by a Toyota.

Maybe when they get that $25,000,000,000.00 "Loan" that they want to update facilities, then they will get it resolved .....

My suggestion to reader John is to try and involve your local media and raise a stink to the dealers (first the one that told you it was "normal" and second to the one that was blaming the oil filter -- after tearing apart your engine). Not to bash the consumerist, but you can definitely attract a broad local audience which would put a lot of pressure on the local Ford folks to cover your repairs. I hope this ends well for you.

American cars are really terrible. I never would buy a Ford...unless it was the GTO and I was rich.

"As Tough As You Want"*

*vehicle may fall to bits if you use anyone else's parts on it.

@zero_o: As a side note I believe that we should start expressing billions and trillions as zeros as opposed to just writing 'billion' or 'trillion' because you lose sight of just how much money a billion or trillion is when you don't put the zeros

@ViperBorg: My family has had issues with every Ford we owned: 84' Bronco II, 88' Thunderbird, 06' Escape.

Quality hasn't ever been job #1

Jeff,

I am so sorry for your problems.

During all that service work, there was not a single notation about the noise? Typically the service advisor lists all the customer 'issues' to be investigated. If this is listed even once, you potentially have a legal case for fraud, when they indicated this is normal.

Ford also states that even their own fuel filters can void their own warranty? I can't see how that's even possible.

Although I believe your service contract requires binding arbitration, have you consulted with a lawyer anyhow? There may be cases where the actions of the company may be outside the normal arbitration provisions.

Have you contacted your local media? A story on the evening news would sure cost a lot more than doing the right thing and covering the repair.

Has anyone noticed Ford's new ads where people test drive (and love) the new Ford Edge? They typically say "I would never have considered a Ford, but I was so suprised, I love it". It's almost as if Ford has made a decision to acknowledge their bad reputation and try to win people over. Well you can change your marketing, but if you don't change your crappy products AND the crappy care you extend to your customers, your crappy reputation will remain.

I drive a Nissan that just turned 100K miles this weekend and runs flawlessly. My service experiences have all been good.

I think I would try the stand-outside-on-public-property-with-sandwich-board-warning-sign technique here.

Totally unsurprised.

Ford's customer service problems extend throughout the company, even to their finance arm:

I used to finance a 2003 Mazda, which goes through Ford Financing since Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda North America. I had everything set up electronically, including a "saved" checking account as my payment method. I didn't have AutoPay set up because frankly, I don't trust them that much. They ended up giving me good reason not to!

One month I logged in to make my payment and noted that the label I had given to my saved account ("CHECKING") was different. It read "DENNIS" (name changed to protect the innocent). I immediately called Ford Finance and explained that somehow, someone else's checking account information had gotten into my account - indicating that there must be a serious database mixup and therefore security issue. I also expressed the concern that since someone else's info was in my account, my info could therefore be in someone else's account.

Guess what their explanation was? That I must have let a friend or family member log into their Ford Finance account on my computer and they forgot to log off. "Seriously?" I asked. Serious as a heart attack. Never mind that I don't know anyone named Dennis that happens to own the exact same car as me with the exact same payment amount, and that I remembered entering my credentials to log in.

Nay, they stuck by their story. Refused to look into it, refused to admit that some technical error occurred. Needless to say, I watched my checking account like a hawk for weeks afterward for car payment charges that weren't mine. The next day when I logged back into my Ford Finance account, my correct info was mysteriously back in place.

I took my car into the Koons Chrysler in Tyson's Corner, VA a little over a month ago to get my air conditioner fixed. It was making an odd clanking sound. Needless to say, they fixed the clanking sound, but now the air conditioner spews out a horrific, awful smell when the AC first kicks on. I have to roll down my windows for about five minutes until the smell goes away. And of course, I'm going to have to pay to get the smell "fixed" that didn't exist before they "fixed" it.

So yeah. I can definitely relate to the OP.

I think this can happen with any auto company though, but I hate FORD so I will not be buyinga FORD product EVER!! and after listening to this b.s, I will forward this on to people making sure they know how FORD treats it's customers especially in times they are losing customers at a level of a waterfall...

@zero_o: You're right that we should start expressing these numbers as numbers.

I thought that $25,000,000,000.00 was a joke (like Mr. ViperBorg's reason # 54325473345342543325432 of why not to buy a Ford).

But it's not.

About the only Ford I owned that I ever liked was a '66 Mustang Fastback - and that's only because I replaced pretty much 3/4 of the car with aftermarket parts.

Unless you count my recent Volvo, my experiences with late-model Fords (a Windstar, Ford Bronco) have been hateful and wasteful. Too bad, because the new lineup is starting to look interesting.

please make your letter shorter. srsly.

This is the sole reason why I dont by American made cars, which Im not proud of but Im not willing to gamble my second largest ownership investment to a bunch of low quality, no service, ilogical yokals (I made my mistake with a 1993 Ford Range). Im somewhat of a gear head, more into imports and the modding scene but ANY car/truck that cant use any old generic off the shelf oil filter (the most basic part of todays cars along with floor mats) shouldnt be on the road. It means that engineering tolerances that went into making the car are impractical.

Did they at all explain why a non-OEM filter would cause this? To me ping sounds more like "knock" or a mechanical failure in a moving part. Possibly one supplied oil to keep lubricated and cooled but still that points to a MANUFACTURES DEFECT. I would research their filter supplier to find the aftermarket copy thats sold for 1/3rd the price but exactly the same minus the Ford name.

I do think you should have requested a quote before any work was billed and told them to put it back together if they were going to fix it, then take it for a second opinion at a competent mechanic.

They call themselves an "American" car company. I remember when they used to advertise "Made in the USA". They cannot do that legally now since their products are built in Canada or Mexico.
I will stick will buying cars built in the USA. Support your local economy and workers. Sad part the companies making vehicles in the USA are all foreign.

Just curious, was there ever an actual problem found, or did this ~6k worth of work simply stem from a noise that didn't really seem to be affecting performance. I certainly understand you wanting to fix any potentially major issues before your warranty expires, but I personally would not have let a shop tear apart my engine based on a noise alone, even if it sounded like pre-detonation.

I can commiserate with you though - my g/f's 2001 Escape had it's rear latch actuator start failing intermittently while it was still under warranty. The Ford dealership service department claimed it was working fine every time she brought it in and would not replace the actuator. It then failed completely after the warranty expired and the dealership refused to fix it for anything less than full cost. After a few minutes of research online I found that this is a common problem on Escapes. I also found a generic actuator for $5.50 that required a little bit of custom mounting, but fixed the problem after about an hour of work on my part. In addition, the same dealership convinced her to get an automatic transmission flush / fill, even though it is not part of the factory recommended maintenance on that particular model transmission (this required a surprising amount of cross referencing due to the poorly written "maintenance guide" that came with the vehicle). The dealership overfilled the transmission, which, several months later, began to jerk when the vehicle was stopped in drive. The service manager refused to accept responsibility for the issue, and claimed that the relief valve would keep the transmission from being damaged. After draining and refilling the transmission fluid a few times, and making sure the level was set correctly the jerking mostly went away. When I initially drained the fluid from the dealership, it appeared to have been burnt. I personally wouldn't trust any dealership, regardless of make, to perform any maintenance or repair task correctly. It's best to find an honest mechanic, but ultimately I prefer knowing that if a repair was done incorrectly, it was my own fault.

letter may be long but at least clear what it's about. Some letters here you get past the first screenfull without even finding out what they're asking for.

Consider filing in small claims court for the remainder. (If you really want to cover your bases you could get JiffyLube's story.) Your case is essentially, it was defective from the start, and even if Judge doesn't believe you reported it from the beginning, you still have fallback case that the JiffyLube story is just an excuse and they have to repair it anyway. They may not even show up to court, be surprised if they even contact you to work things out prior to the court date. If you sue the warranty dept first for breech and lose, you may still be able to sue the original dealer for selling you a defective product.

Typical Ford, which is why I would never buy one. Also if I ever 'win' one I will quickly turn around and sell it. Actually, I don't buy raffle tix for various local clubs/local causes if they show a Ford as the prize.

Riddle me this, why can't most Ford drivers read traffic signs or obey traffic laws?

John- Thank you for reminding me never to buy a Ford. Sometimes they come out with cool looking cars, like the new Mustang, but then I remember the potential hell I would have to deal with if anything went wrong. Ford is like the Paypal of cars, except worse in that the problems start before ANYTHING begins, ie: trying to buy the car.

We've not heard Ford's side.

My Continental is still perfect at 117,000 miles. My Expedition is still perfect at almost 85,000 miles.

Yes, there was a time when I wouldn't buy a Ford (I bought two Honda's in a row, instead). But this story's a fluke. I'm not unsympathetic -- the situation sucks, but all of the hatred that I see above is just stupid.

I have since received a check for half of the repair costs from the original Ford rep. It came through one of the local dealers with no stipulations about keeping quiet if I cashed it. I cashed it and am now making good on my promise to write this up for all to read on your site.

Having cashed the check, you may now be out of luck trying to get the other half from them. You should check your state law, but in most states cashing that check would be considered acceptance of the settlement as payment in full.

1) People who are saying that this story validates their opinions of poor American car quality should stop using a sample size I can count on one hand and instead start looking at the real facts. This isn't the 1980s anymore.

2) John Y., you had me with your story until the very end. IANAL, but despite the fact that the check you cashed didn't have any expressed requirements about furthering your cause on this issue, your action of cashing the check very well may have been an implicit acceptance of reasonable compensation for your issue. In court, Ford's lawyers would have a field day with the fact that they sent you a check and you cashed it. If you really did not feel that the 1/2 payment was adequate, you should have NOT CASHED IT.

Ford = Fix Or Repair Daily

My family used to have a Ford van. It ran good until it had a problem. Then another, and another, and another... Pretty soon it was a monthly repair thing.

Ford seriously needs to handle the quality of their vehicles. That, or get ready to find new customers on Mars.

Wow, what a novel. Well, its time to stop playing nice and sue for damages in court. Hopefully you can file in small claims in your state, but you're near or past the limit alot of places. Cashing a check for a unsettled dispute is a very bad move. I hope it doesn't cost you the other half.

I hate to play Monday Morning quarterback - but if you buy a brand new vehicle and it makes an odd noise, please go back to the dealership right away and demand that they give you a different vehicle. It is also useful to document everything as soon as you notice a problem, both in writing and with video/photography.

As for Ford, their treatment of you speaks for itself. Americans should remember what kind of behavior they are rewarding if they vote in politicians who then bail out incompetent companies.

@Preyfar: You have crap growing in your A/C system due to trapped water. It's likely the condensate drain is plugged, especially if you're getting water dripping into the footwells. They'll need to unplug the drain line, then spray some kind of fungicide into the A/C intake to kill the critters in there.

@DrJimmy: A fleet buyer is in a much better bargaining position than a consumer when it comes to getting repairs made. The dealer can afford to take a loss on a repair because they know you'll be back on a regular basis.

@SkokieGuy: I have a 1996 Ford Escort with 138,000+ miles on it and I've never experienced anything that could give Ford a bad name for quality. In the 10 years I've had it (bought it used with 25K miles) The only repairs I've had to take it in for have been when the timing belt broke (car was 5-6 years old at the time) and to replace the battery leads because they corroded when I left it sit dormant for more than 6 months because I had a company vehicle for a time. Other than that the only annoying issue I've had with it is that the automatic seatbelt broke and I had to cut the cable on it off so now the little motor whizzes around all the time trying to retract what's not there. Something which happened only last year. Everyone in my family has owned Ford vehicles with similar lack of disaster. Hardly a record of horrible crafstmanship. Whether you end up with a great car or one that's a bit of a lemon seems to be the luck of the draw and good attention paid before buying/right after purchase.

That said, Jeff's experience with Ford and their refusal to even look into the possibility the troubles with his car are the responsibility of unscrupulous dealers, is certainly making me rethink my decision to purchase another Ford when mine finally dies.

Setting aside the craziness of the dealership and all the slippery mechanic talk, the issue they're pointing to is possibly correct, although, since the pinging was there when the dealer was servicing it, it applies equally to their own oil filters as it does to the evil evil "Aftermarket" ones.

Assuming that it is noise in the camshaft region, they're technically right that a bad oil filter can cause the sound. An undersized oil filter, or an oil filter that doesn't allow sufficient flow can screw with oil pressure, and starve part of the engine of oil, particularly the top. That's the last place oil goes (oil is pumped up from way down at the bottom). So the top of the engine gets starved for oil, and things start to wear really fast.

Usually, if the oil filter is that bad, the car's oil pressure readings will be wacky. You'll get an oil light for too long when you start the car, or it will come on and off, or it will always stay on. Unless the oil pressure was just weak in one area, but if it was weak just at the cam, it would probably be blocked oil journals, and not the filter, that's the problem.

Things to check for oil pressure-related problems:

(1) Oil light comes on too long at startup (more than a tiny second). (Probably a worn oil pump.)

(2) Oil light flickers on and off when changing engine speed. (I would think this is more likely the case with an undersized oil filter that is restricting oil flow.)

(3) Engine runs rough, with knocking sounds that match engine speed (Pressure was too low: failed oil pump, clogged filter, low on oil, or some such. At this point, it's time to give up and replace the engine).

Overall, pay very close attention to that oil light. It's one of the most important indicators that a non-mechanic has.

To check for knocking, take a piece of rubber hose and put one end in your ear and the other end on the engine, moving it around until you find the loudest pinging sound. If its a fuel injector, the fuel injector will be making the noise (Duh!). If it's the engine, it will be somewhere on the valve cover or engine body.

If they ever tell any of you it's a fuel injector, there's a very easy way to check. UNPLUG THE FUEL INJECTOR. If it's still pinging, IT IS NOT THE FUEL INJECTOR. :)

@wickedpixel: How would cashing a check with no terms attached be considered acceptance of a settlement? You could just as easily say that by them sending half payment they admitted to half responsibility. Now he can fight over who owns the other half. Such as the local dealer, or still ford corporate.

@nataku83: If you have an issue that is documented during the warranty period, and the manufacturer doesn't do anything to repair the issue while in warranty, they are still liable for the repair of the problem when the warranty is up. At least, this is the case in NY. I had issues with my old car's front wheel bearings. They kept telling me nothing was wrong; of course I felt the thing vibrate all the time. At 38k miles, the bearing was FINALLY diagnosed as the problem, and was replaced gratis even though the warranty had expired, because of the service history. (GM Vehicle)

I was told all GM dealerships are connected to a database with the full service history of every car they work on. 10 years from now, if my old car is still on the road, punching the VIN into GM's service book system will bring up all the wheel bearing replacement issues.

I saw something like this one time on Judge Judy or The Peoples Court. The guy complained of a knocking noise and mentioned it to the dealer who said it was nothing and to not worry about it. When the engine went kaput, the warranty guys didn't cover it stating that it was something a quick lube place did and that he was outta luck. Guy ended up loosing the case because he didn't have the proper documentation (I.E. the burden of proof).

I have a 99 Taurus. So many problems. I hate how every year it needs something fixed.

I will never buy a ford. This was my mothers car. I know why she gave it up.

@moeman1024: That F150 was made in the United States. As is the Focus, the Mustang, the Ranger, the Escape, the Super Duty, the Expedition, the Taurus, the MKS.

Since we're all sharing our Ford horror stories:

My '98 Escort's AC failed a few years ago. Understanding the dangers of the dealership, I went to a local shop, who diagnosed the issue as a computer module (the CCRM) that wasn't in production anymore and tightly controlled by Ford. Research indicated that the modules were prone to fail, and no rip-n-repair junkyards had them for me. My only option - dealership.

They asked a $90 diagnostic to be applied to my repair. Three weeks and a $2000 estimate later they told me it would be 6 weeks to get the part. They offered to put my car back together (for $2K) and call me when the part was in, at which point I could pay an additional $500 for the part, and $300 for the labor.

I called Ford, who actually helped.

Long story short - I got out on the diagnostic fee with a repaired AC mostly due to the dealer gaffing on a conference call with Ford. The CCRM simply needed reprogramming (step 1 of the troubleshooting that the tech skipped). I said (and Ford agreed) that it wasn't my fault that the tech skipped the procedure that would have fixed my car in 15 minutes. The Labor, shop rate, storage rate, etc. would be eaten by the dealer.

That dealership went out of business a month later.

I honestly don't think this is a Ford, or domestic vs import issue, rather just another unscrupulous dealership trying to fleece you to cover their own costs when they misdiagnosed your vehicle. They pretty much know that most consumers do not know enough about their vehicle to properly discuss the nature of said problems.
In my humble opinion, a pinging noise (if that is accurate, ie not another noise mistaken for pinging) can only be attributed to 2 things:
1. Fuel - either delivery, mixture or grade (octane) can easily cause pinging. Could be related to car's computer mixing air/fuel lean.
2. Timing - incorrent timing (or distributor, sparkplug, etc. problems) can also lead to this

In NO way can I imagine that an oil filter can ever lead to any king of pinging or knocking, if that is their claim, ask them to explain the logic, and then verify with an independant mechanic.

In short...never believe what they tell you at the dealership or Jiffy Lube or any other place without verifying with a trusted mechanic.

In addition to previous long response, thought I would share this story (quickly) of a friend who bought a new truck:
Bought new truck, believe it was a Chevy. Immediately began experiencing problems (within 48 hours). Took truck back to dealership, they promised to look at it. Unbeknownst to the dealership, my friend put a chalk mark by the rear tire.
Upon returning a few days later to pick up the truck, was told that "our technicians inspected the truck, the engine and suspension and found no faults or problems."
That's when my friend went and checked behind the rear tire, sure enough...the chalk mark was still there. They had not even so much as moved the truck into the service center.
He left the dealership about 1 hour later, after much screaming, with a full refund!

I would venture to say that once you cashed the check for 1/2 of the amount you were seeking, you effectly ruined your chance for any further payments. Cashing the check impies that you accept payment in full, even though you did not mean to.

You did good up until that point though...

@balthisar: Our families Expedition ran great till 100,000 miles and then it was one thing after the next. Same with our Taurus before that. These were the mid 90s models so maybe they got better in the bast decade but as little as a decade ago, they were terrible for reliability.

@NitrousO: *past decade

How come with this neat comment system we can't have an edit button?

Well.. I've owned 3 Fords in 8 years... Currently I have a Toyota and a 2001 Ford Taurus Wagon. The wagon is tops! I've had it since it was new and at 82,000+ miles it's doing wonderfully. Just the regular oxygen sensor and brake maintenance. Fit and finish are very good and there's almost no rattles. I'd buy it again in an instant.

Ford dealerships OTOH... suck huge. Almost criminal suckitude.

Can anybody tell me about ONE Ford dealership that was even semi-competent? I, for one, take the wagon to a local guy who is very skilled and very honest (not cheap, though). But during the warranty period you're essentially stuck with a dealer (unless you want to try to recover your expense post-repair under warranty). In the DC area I tried four different places and all were sleazy morons.

Just bought a new car in March... and no... Ford did not have anything that interested me. Even if it had, chances are I'd have skipped them due to the dealers.