My new hero!

Victory for Bernsy sure, but a default judgment doesn't really mean anything in terms of precedence. Just hope you get lucky and the airline doesn't show up again.

I like the back and forth negotiation. Good for him.

Lawyers vs Airlines, it's like rooting for the lesser of two evils.

When a legal analyst from the airline called him two weeks later to negotiate a payment, he declined an offer of frequent-flier miles

The miles! The miles! I'll take the miles!

Confederate currency indeed. Good for him.

No reason to take miles when it costs money to book using those miles.

@Diet-Orange-Soda: Nobody would send a lawyer into court to argue a storm where it can be proven there was none. Of course they are not going to ever show up for these cases. You want to argue a case against God? That's kind of what it is like.

So this guy makes/bills at 400+ dollars an hour? I want his job!

What sort of data would one need to prove that the cancellation was not weather-related? We have abundant evidence on one side that flights can be affected by weather conditions that are neither at your origin or destination, and also evidence that the airlines are willing to call things weather-related so that they don't have to pay up...how would you convince someone in court that it was the second, if the airline actually did show up? Would you have to have a statement from an airline employee?

@rpm773: You could have a new boat, or what's in this envelope.

Confederate Currency - My new favorite term!

@AgentTuttle: Yeah, but what proof does Burns have that the flight *wasn't* canceled due to weather, short of the anecdotal evidence that other flights were departing? Doesn't he have to make that case, as he's the one suing the airline?

@Carencey: Methinks that he didn't have to prove anything - he won a default judgement because Delta never showed up at court. I don't believe he even had to produce any 'evidence' to the judge. He wins just by the fact that Delta didn't show up.

I just don't understand why he let them off the hook for the hundred bucks.

How do you prove, well from the article linked in this post:

"Berns checked the National Weather Service report. It said snow that day was expected at five the next morning - hours after his flight was scheduled to land. He and several other passengers from his Delta flight easily booked a JetBlue flight departing at the same time."

While the plane departing might have been coming from a different location that is impacted by weather delays, that is due to the airline's choice of where and how to schedule aircraft. The only weather that can justify the no refund policy is the weather at the point of departure, arival and the airspace in between.

@wiggatron: Yea thats what I'm talking about. Thats more than Hulk Hogan makes!

@rpm773:Simple. FFA and National Weather Service reports for that day for departure and destination city. If the weather was good and no other airlines were canceling this would be enough to prove his case.

I think for the vast majority of people, the default judgements on a typical round-trip ticket certainly exceed their hourly payrate.

It's sad when lawsuits and hefty fines are the most effective way to coerce a large company to truly take things seriously.

@12-Inch Idongivaf*ck Sandwich: Yes, and also guaranteed to be treated worse than a paying passenger.

@Carencey: Several months ago, Consumerist wrote an article about hiring a forensic meterologist.

@ wiggatron

I think if a lawyer bills at 400/hr the Firm he works for earns 400/hr he prob gets like $50-$100/hr

The question is what would he have to prove if the airline produced a defense. That might be a little tricky but the reality is it would cost the airline more to defend than the claim itself so they're stuck trying to settle once a judgment has been made.

Delta = pwned.

That being said, I'm pretty sure that Delta didn't bother sending anyone because it wasn't worth their time/money, not because they were admitting to guilt. Even if they believed that they were innocent, it wouldn't be worth it to pay for someone to spend a day in court over a $900 small claims case. Also, I think it's actually pretty hard to prove that an airline falsified that FLIFO. The FAA keeps pretty tight watch on the airline reporting... And just because the weather was a balmy 85 degrees and sunny in both the destination AND the departure cities (if that was the case), that doesn't mean that the flight wasn't cancelled for weather-related reasons. Weather patterns in flight paths can cause delays and cancellations, and trickle-down delays (caused by early morning weather patterns) are still legally weather-related delays, even if the weather has since cleared up.

Regardless, it's nice to know just how easy it is to file a small claims and win a judgement against an airline.

@Xanaxian: Because he booked himself on another flight, so apparently made it to his destination, and therefore wasn't out for more than the cost of his original tickets? That's my guess. Also most likely because he had a better chance of getting his money back than sueing for more than what they were actually worth, to be taken seriously.

The only weather that can justify the no refund policy is the weather at the point of departure, arival and the airspace in between.
Excellent, excellent. Next time, USAir. Heh heh heh.

Actually though hes prob making a monthly salary that has nothing to do with what hes billing for his firm

@newfenoix: I don't like the airlines, but I'll keep playing devil's advocate :)

The airline canceled the flight because while it would have arrived at JFK before the storm hit, perhaps it would have been stuck there for one, maybe two days while the airport was closed, causing the airline even bigger headaches, more cancellations, loss of revenue, etc. Is that a legitimate weather cancellation?

I'm not saying that happened, but maybe that's how the airline defends its action.

@Xanaxian: Because it's better to have $838 now with a small fight, then $938 later after a long, drawn-out fight. If they want to be jerks about not paying then (at minimum) it means you have to spend another day at small claims court.

@SkokieGuy: I totally agree. I am so sick of them lying about the weather for cancellations. Sorry, your bad scheduling is not equal to a bad weather cancellation. As far as I can tell their reasoning is something like:

Airline: Sorry, this flight is cancelled due to bad weather.
Customer: What do you mean? It's sunny here, there and in between.
Airline: Well, there's bad weather someplace else, so the plane that was supposed to take you on this flight won't be showing up.
Customer: And that is my problem how?

Math is not Consumerist readers' strong points, heh? Mr. Berns spent 4 hours (not 1) to recover $838 which is a little over $200 per hour, not $400.

If Delta had sent an attorney, it may have been a lot more difficult for Mr. Berns to win without some kind of expert testinmony.

@jennj99738: From the article: "The whole thing took him about four hours, he recalls, resulting in earnings of less than half his hourly billing rate."

So, if $209.50/hour is less than half of his hourly rate, then his hourly rate is $419 or more.

@jennj99738: That would have nothing to do with Consumerist math. They're quoting another article.

Bravo to the OP, though. One small victory for consumers everywhere. I love the little blurb about asking for confidentiality... and how they'd rather pay $100 less than have the story kept secret. That's rich.

@Carencey: You can hire a forensic meteorologist.

Virtually any airline wouldn't respond to a small claims case, simply b/c they don't have enormous in-house staffs (and most of those are busy handling more critical matters), and sending in an outside counsel would be more than the judgment was worth. This means you could win virtually any small claims case against an airline.

Hmmmmmmmm.

good for him.

But I doubt any of you will be reproducing his result. Do you have the knowledge, money, and wherewithal to buy full fare tickets to get yourself somewhere in the face of a weather delay, genuine or not, gambling that you'll be able to win judgment later to recover the amount?

Some small claims courts in the King county (seattle) area make you state your case even if the defendant doesn't show. Others are more lenient and just issue the default judgement. So you might have to prove (or at least present) your case, or you may not. Obviously, if you're the plaintiff, "not" is preferred!

He didn't win anything, he only got reimbursed for his other trip.

As for winning a default case if the other party does not show up, you still need to prove that your claim is valid with evidence, etc.., However the best part is that there is nobody to oppose your claims!

So did he have to take delta to small claims just to get his original ticket refund back? Or was the award on top of that? When my recent airtran return flight was delayed due to "weather", which would have resulted in being stranded on the wrong coast for 3 days, airtran gave all the money back immediately. Actually, they refunded more than half the amount, which my 10 semesters of advanced mathematics education is powerless to explain. I still ended up $480 in the hole, since booking alternate last-minute travel plans was more costly, but airtran didn't try to sneak away with my money after stranding me in Boston.

I so cannot wait to get my law degree. But damn that still seems forever away.

@wiggatron: $400 an hour is high for a lawyer, but not too uncommon.

Lawyers can make a good living in private practice, but they do incur costs. You have to pay rent on offices, salary for a receptionist/paralegal, and various other costs associated with running an office. $400 an hour is plenty enough to cover that, but it's also not the take home rate.

One can order official weather reports from NOAA/NWS online for not a lot of money that are admissible in court. Farmers use them for crop insurance claims and they're sometimes used for building damage claims. The unofficial data is usually available almost immediately as it's a straight dump from the automated weather stations, but the official audited reports take some time to become available.

Who cares how much he earns folks. And it shouldn't have been in the post. Worthwhile != I didn't make as much as I could have earned working when the issue is one of principle.

The airlines like to tell us whatever it takes to save their rears (with the exception of Southwest it seems).

The point isn't even to win these battles, but to challenge instead of follow along, grumbling as you go.

@ludwigk: The reason you got more than half of your money back is pretty simple: your return ticket was more expensive than your outbound. Every ticket, regardless of whether it's *technically* two one-ways or one round-trip, has individual pricing for each leg. Most consumers don't realize that, however, and assume that X is the price for the round-trip ticket. It's nice to hear that AirTran both offered up the cash without any games AND that they were honest-- they could have easily given you only half of the ticket cost and gotten away with some of your money!

@wiggatron: go borrow $60,000-$80,000 dollars, quit your job, and spend 3 years in law school to get that job with a $400/hr billing rate. its just that easy!

@Xanaxian: he didn't. He knocked $100 off of the $938 judgment in exchange for prompt payment. Otherwise, they'd have dragged their feet for months.

@Ben Popken: you can also print past weather reports from online sources, can't you? I'd have no problem believing this guy went to The Weather Channel's website the day of the flight cancellation and printed something right away.

@dialing_wand: his earnings weren't stated in the post. Someone just speculated about them in a comment.

@wiggatron: You can have it, after undertaking his Law School time/effort/bills!

Great story, Berns; congratulations on the outcome.

This guy is a hero. These airlines think that they have all the power in the negotiations and they could care the hell less if their screw-ups cost you a $1000. I don't even get the policy of not refunding your money for bad weather. It makes NO sense! They didn't even fly the stupid plane! They didn't pay FAs, pilots, airport fees...why the hell do they get to keep our money?

And I agree that just because there's bad weather somewhere else in the world, doesn't mean that our flight should be cancelled for that. Screw that policy. All it does it let airlines off the hook every single time they have to cancel.

$15? I'm well on my way. It's my last year of law school anyway. I could use a little practice filling out stupid forms.