Nope

Not unless it was disclosed before the time of purchase, otherwise its a bait and switch.

Definitely Not Cool, if the $50 charge was undisclosed in the auction I would think you could somehow dispute it with ebay or paypal. If nothing else, a huge negative feedback to warn others.

Is it a shipping charge, or a customs charge?

Customs charges are Ok, and happen from time to time, extra shipping charges are not.

A customs charge is not really a "C.O.D.", and yes, it is totally kosher and legal. If you ship something of value to someone in another country you have to describe the item and declare its value on the customs form, and the customs department of that country decides if it is taxable. If it IS taxable, they will require a payment from the person accepting to package in order to deliver it to them. Simple as that.

Yeah, if it's customs, it's legit. I've seen eBay buyers from Canada complain about it before.

Blame it on Canada.

shipping, no, complain

unless stated in the auction, all customs charges are assumed to be responsibility of buyer.

Piss, I wish there was an edit function. I got the song title wrong. ;)

Duh! It's an international border, and the charge isn't from the seller, ebay, or the shipper. It's from Canadian customs. Essentially, YOU pay duty on stuff YOU import from the USA into Canada. The seller has no need to be aware of these burdens; it's up to the purchaser to know what he, as the purchaser, owes to the government. Consider that transactions on ebay are considered FOB (look it up), and you'll know that it's kosher.

Several years ago I sold a PowerBook to a Canadian on ebay. Per his request, I labelled it "computer parts" and assigned a low value (his insurance risk!) for the express purpose of breaking Canadian law. In that I'm not Canadian and he was, and due to the FOB transaction, I complied and he didn't have to pay his duty. Least I could do considering the junk he was buying and the price he was paying (not the PowerBooks were junk, but in terms of age, it was old and outdated).

Frustrating? Absolutely.

Legit? Yup - well, as legit as governments get, anyway.

Should it be disclosed in the auction? I can go either way on this. On the one hand, it would be decent of the seller to indicate that customs charges will most likely apply to any foreign buyers, but on the other hand, the onus is somewhat on the buyer to be aware of the fact that when you're importing goods from outside the country, said charges may exist.

As far as a best practice goes, it's almost certainly better to disclose that the charges may exist, but that the seller can't calculate what they might be as it depends on the country and declared value.

UPS is renowned for charging $40.00 for anything coming into Canada through their shipping services. The charges are broker fees, handling and inspection, whether or not it is actually inspected. This is for the "convenience" of the customer/recipient. There has been more than one flare up of flack from this happening to people. And you don't have a choice but pay it if you want your package. I've been hit twice by that scam, thank you so much UPS!

Not so sure if Fedex or Purolator do the same padding.

Ask the seller to use USPS instead. At worst, Canada Customs and Revenue will charge GST if they stop it. Chances are they won't though, especially if it is for an item under $100.00

[thefurtheradventuresofpatandexpat.blogspot.com] Overcharged by UPS

Wish I could find the news reports from three years ago about it. :/

[reviews.ebay.com] More on the overchage by UPS for shipping to Canada

This is the reason I no longer ship to Canada.

1) Canadians ALWAYS ask me to lie on the customs declaration. I've been asked to put $5 accessory on a $750 phone.

2) UPS and FedEx always charge brokerage fees, up to around $50, and if the recipient refuses to pay them, guess who gets the bill added to their shipping account?

I like Canadians, but shipping to them is more hassle than any other country in the world. I'd rather ship to Europe than to Canada. Canadian post has sent packages back to me because the item description was not in French AND English, plus they have lost stuff in the past. CP does not seem to understand what tracking means either...

I have made numerous purchases (more than 20, anyways) from the states on eBay and Amazon.com, and I've only been nailed by customs once. The charge turned out to be $23, but $11 of that was an escrow fee from FedEx. I refused to pay the escrow fee because it was not a service I agreed to, but I paid the taxes. The FedEx CS rep had no problem with my reasoning and reduced the charge with no hassle. I also didn't hear from the seller complaining about the charge being dumped on them, so I assume that everything was good. Paying taxes/duty on merchandise makes sense, but paying (relatively) huge escrow fees to the shipping company is ridiculous.

The seller doesn't know what the customs fee will be, cannot pay it in advance, and, until the auction ends, has no idea that the buyer is Canadian.

I echo everything scoobydoo said. Even the returned packages for lack of French when I sent an item via USPS which gets handed off to its Canadian brother at the border.

People seemed shocked that canadian customers ask them to "break the law".
I am sure everybody who posts here has paid the sales tax on everything they buy over the internet. Because not doing that is breaking the law also.

Stuff sent by courier (UPS, whatever), they assess the customs fee themselves, which is WAY more than necessary. If you are buying from USA seller and in Canada (like me), simply ask they mail it US Post, and nothing else. You'll get charged the taxable value plus $5 assessment fee, if they even bother to do it. Couriers ALWAYS do this and their assessment fee is $25 or more.

@North of 49: UPS doesn't charge the customs fees if you use UPS Air.

I really do find it difficult to believe that a person living in Canada and using eBay would be unaware that the government of Canada assesses import duties on merchandise arriving from another country. Frankly, I think it's alright for the Canadian buyer to try to stick it to the Man by asking the seller to label the item as a gift or to understate its value, but the seller really has no obligation to lie on a customs form and shouldn't be expected to do so.

OK, let's make something clear. It applies to ANYTHING coming to Canada, not only eBay items.

BROKERAGE CHARGES :

1) if shipped by USPS, the package will be taken care in Canada by Canada Post (government agency). Last time I imported, it was 8$ CAD + taxes you'll have to pay

2) If shipped by UPS/Fedex/TNT/*any private company service* , those companies decide what brokerage charge the customer has to pay. Usually varies between 50$ and 70$ CAD + taxes + 2%/4% for ''advancing'' taxes to pay your taxes first.

It's importer's (customer's ) responsibility to check which taxes/brokerage fees are there to pay, since there a lot of regulation that changes from one country to another.

(Pot is legal some countries, doesn't make it legal to import).

@Victo: EXEMPTIONS (no taxes/brokerage) are made for :

PERSONAL GIFTS : each gift has to be under 60$CAD, but there is no limit on number of gifts in one package. So if you have 3 rings, each 50$, it's still taxes free.

EVERYTHING ELSE : exemption for packages containing for less that 20$CAD value of merchandise. (Which is *cheap*, compared to 200$USA on the other side of the border...)

Everything else, be ready to pay...

Nothing new - importing something into your country costs money.

From eBay: [pages.ebay.com] ...

"What if I live in Canada and purchase an item from a U.S. seller?
Fees, duties and taxes are often not included in the purchase, shipping and handling fees on international shipments to Canada. If you are a Canadian buyer purchasing goods from outside of Canada you should check with the seller to determine whether the fees (including customs clearance charges), duties and taxes are included in the purchase price.

How can sellers make it easier to ship to Canada if they live in the U.S.?
UPS offers U.S. sellers a Non-Resident Importer (NRI) Account. The U.S. seller can then bill you up front for duties and taxes, as well as shipping and handling."

@ThinkerTDM: Actually, I do pay the (estimated) sales taxes for stuff I buy on the Internet. Michigan's tax forms make it a line item on the state income tax form.

Anyway, on point: Like everyone said, the seller didn't do this. The Canadian government did. Buyers in Canada have to lie, or live with it.

@scoobydoo: You are exaggerating. And ''stuff'' does not get lost in USA? You just have to state in the auction that taxes/duties/brokerage (if using UPS) are on buyer's ''conscience'' and not seller's responsibility.

Sadly, you have stupid people on both sides of the border. I seldom post auctions to USA's since many idiots do not understand the meaning of word ''delayed by customs''. Which is, by the way, disclosed in advance, and is easy to track, on ANY shipping service with a tracking number.

@JasonR:
Hey Jason, quit clouding the issue with FAQ. :)

Customs duties may not apply due to NAFTA, but that doesn't obviate the need for a customs form.

When I worked part time at a shipping store, I would remind customers that they were not just mailing or shipping something if it went to another country, they were EXPORTING it. They had to fill out customs forms and declare a value, whether there was a tariff or not.

Oddly, the high tech stuff I buy on eBay that ships from China always seems to have a VERY low declared value.

@krispykrink: Sorry, but I don't believe you. I have never met ONE custom's officer that wasn't bilingual. Probably your ''brother'' refused to pay duties/taxes. Or whatever you were shipping was restricted for import at that moment (can happen a lot, especially to food).

@jaybeebrad: Oh, and I forgot to mention.

You can REFUSE the COD from UPS, and state that you will file paperwork for yourself with closest custom's office. It involves some driving, and you have to get off your ass, but it saves 50$-70$, so well worth it.

I'm not sure it works for Fedex, TNT, etc....

All government of Canada employees are recommended if not out right required to be bilingual in both of our official languages, no matter which part of Canada you work in.

I'd be curious to know what the item in question is as I have recieved items from US buyers in Canada before and never had such a charge.

If it was a for a larger or more expensive item I can see how this might apply.

I know a lot of ebay buyers want sellers to mark items as a gift to avoid the charges, but customs fraud is not a good idea.

Don't forget P P P Powerbook . . . great story about getting the scammer to pay the import fees

/not really related
//hilarious story anyway
///block out a few hours to read it
////[www.zug.com]

@scoobydoo: don't forget:
3) scammers.

no more canada for me - had some jerk send me fake money orders & try a 409 on me. u.s. only from now on.

@Victo: or he shipped it to somewhere in quebec. i had a woman refuse to serve me in a mcdonald's in montreal b/c i didn't speak french - i kid you not.

some of those folks are borderline militant about their heritage.

@mac-phisto: There is a difference between nationalistic nut working minimum wage at McDo and custom's officer, bilingual, and dealing with thousands of different people in a year...

McDo does not attract the brightest bulbs. And if it happens, as soon as they get some experience, they run away to better jobs :)

definitely Kosher.

One way you can get around it is by labeling the package as "personal gift", that should get it through customs in canada.

Completely legitimate fee, but I'd have to go with ThinkerTDM on this one...

I remember being annoyed as a child when I won a contest from America and was sent my prize but had to pay 50$ customs on it (well my father did).. it was more than the cost of the prize... .-.

Agreed with others. It's not the sellers problem that you live in Canada, and you can't estimate import taxes in your listing (or at all). Buy from ebay.ca or pay your government or replace them by voting in new ones.

I've had this happen before, and every damn time it was a shipment done by UPS. The only way to avoid being ripped-off (unfortunately, legally) like that is to completely avoid doing business with any company that only uses UPS for shipping.

This may seem surprising, but I've always had fast, courteous service using USPS and Canada Post. Whenever it's an option that's the one I pick. I usually get faster service that way too, because UPS's idiot drivers never seem to find my place on the first try (even though I live in a large apartment building on a well-known street downtown).

@humphrmi: It's buyers responsibility. And estimating taxes is pretty easy. It's one phone call away. One free phone call.

There is a NAFTA exemption for paying duties. To qualify, the item must be for personal use and made in the U.S. or Canada, but I have seen lists that also include Mexico and Costa Rica. Here's the info:

[www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca]

A funny side story. I live in Buffalo, NY and have been know to go across the border for the sole purpose of buying potato chips in flavors not available here, which can sometimes be interesting to explain to the border guards. One such trip went something like this:

U.S. Border Guard: Purpose of your visit to Canada?
Me: Shopping.
USBG: That's funny, cause most people come to the U.S., not the other way around.
Me: I was buying all-dressed chips...all-dressed potato chips. They aren't available here.
USBG: Never heard of 'em.
Me: Exactly!

He let me through after that.

Canada is really just a suburb of the United States.

It doesn't make sense that our brothers from the north get taxed like this.

If the shipper sends it as a gift then I think there are no customs charges, thats how it was for me whe I have sent things to Canada.

I just checked my UPS software. As a registered business (UPS has my EIN) I have NO capability to ship a gift to Canada.

The declared value of the goods must match the insured value (I can't say the goods are worth $1 and then insure the item for $1000) as the software will kickout variants.

I must either prepay the brokerage fees or assign the fees to the customer or to a 3rd party.

There are some other checks and balances in the system to eliminate fraud.

FedEX has similar systems to counter fraud.

BTW, read the UPS or FedEx tariffs (contract between shipper and shipping company)... import or export fraud is a violation of the terms of the tariff and will result in the your shipping account being closed and forfeiture of your account deposit/bond as well as notification of authorities as appropriate.

@humphrmi:
IIRC, FedEx and UPS are both US owned companies. They are the ones charging the bullshit fees, not the Canadian government.

I'm also pretty sure the fee is much smaller / non-existent if you ship to a business which has a UPS / FedEx account.

@emington:
$50-$70 for a "customs handling" fee when the USPS way costs $8 is not legitimate. How the hell can 5x-10x more be defined as "legitimate"?

Standard practice. Canadians get the shaft when it comes to US goods. Not only do we pay more in retail for the same goods (with the dollars at near par) by 25% or so, we pay more for goods that are MADE in canada, and shipped down to the US. We also get screwed on customs for everything. I had a $120 IP phone sent up, and had to pay almost $90 in customs charges and brokerage fees. And woe to you if you weren't expecting the package that day as most places are cash only.

I have working in Logistics for many years and this is totally legit - it might not be something you want to pay tough.

People always ask to declare a lower value - which I will not due for them. If the product gets lost are damaged I want to reimbursed for the full price.

Sometimes we would send samples and you have to fill out all of the forms correctly and mark it "no commercial value" so my customer would not be hit w/ lots of charges.

@Shamanix: Ehhh, not really a seller's responsibility to mark off what foreign countries will charge what for it. Generally speaking I'd expect a buyer to be more familiar with their government's laws than a seller trying to inform people of how the other 194 (or so) countries would treat it if you should buy it from there.

Of course, it goes without saying that if it was shipped from America ... there's a decent chance that the seller hadn't even considered international shipping until someone from Canada topped the bidding.