Inquiring readers named Kurt want to know: If a buyer from Canada buys something from someone in America on eBay, pays for it, including shipping, and then it shows up with a $50 C.O.D. charge for imports and customs, is that kosher? Discuss…
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Every thing I buy in the states online (I’m in Canada) I have shipped to my Aunt. She brings it cross border every 3 mos when visiting and no duties are payable as she is the owner of the goods. Lucky for me I guess.
1) It’s legit because it’s a customs charge. It’s not from eBay or the seller.
2) I don’t believe it’s the duty of the seller to disclose, warn, etc you because how are THEY supposed to know what every country in the world has for customs laws? YOU live there.
I AM CANADIAN
And to me, this sucks worse then gas prices.
I would love to hand over more money to the U.S. economy, but the gouge and screw policies of UPS and the other shippers (but mainly UPS) are unbearable.
I use to order print marketing materials from places like overnight prints … but reliably, I am charged an extra $40 by UPS to do it.
It’s horrible, disgusting, and while there are a lot of great things about Canada, importing with con artists like UPS isn’t one of them.
But this is COMPLETELY a UPS issue.
I looked up the brokerage fees schedule for UPS and FedEx. There’s no clearance charge for UPS using Worldwide Express Plus, Worldwide Express, Worldwide Express Saver and Worldwide Expedited and FedEx using Express. (You still have to pay duty and tax, of course.) But….
There is a $50 (UPS) or $75 (FedEx) Duty and Tax Amendment fee. What’s the amendment fee?
So you’re taking a bit of a gamble by gaming the system.
For the enterprising individual, here’s an explanation about how to avoid the brokerage fees by doing it yourself.
@Michael Belisle: But the shipping, using these services, is outrageous. No wonder they don’t charge brokerage in these cases.
UPS blows for shipping to Canada. I got charged an addition $45 + all the regular tax for a $100 item. Fuck UPS. I never paid it and I never use their service anymore.
FedEx is OK. DHL is pretty bad. USPS is really the best way.
I second, third, or whatever number it is by now about not using UPS to import to Canada! Come to think of it, that last sentence needs severalo exclamation points, so here they are !!!!!
Also, duty on computer stuff to Canada probably doesn’t have any duty nowadays; back when I was getting bits for my Amiga (15 plus years ago) from the states the duty was extremely low and about to disappear. But UPS would always try to come up with some reason to try to charge a broker’s fee. They did with a video editing board I’d sent for repair and which was being returned; they even did when I first moved up there and had a friend send up a box of my winter clothes — they claimed this medium-sized box of used clothes “looked like a commercial shipment”.
Don’t use UPS when shipping to Canada! I always liked them fine within the states; did a lot of shipping with them and very rarely had a problem. But to Canada, no way.
Of course if you’re in Canada and want some computer stuff, just order from NCIX in Richmond, BC. Competitive prices compared to the states and no hassles.
And I see someone just above me mentioned DHL, and let me second that. I’ve heard that some people have no probs with them, but with me they were terrible, and lied about when they’d supposedly tried to deliver (they claimed they’d tried 3 times and said when; all of those times were before the item was shipped). Apparently it’s spotty and depends a great deal on the driver in your area; you have a good driver, they’re fine, a bad driver and you’re screwed.
I’ve always had good service with FedEx, and Canada Post has been terrific.
If you want to buy consistently from the US, and are canadian, and live ANYWHERE near a border, for the love of god get a US post office box (You don’t have to be a citizen to get one – some people seem to think you do), and have your stuff sent there. Hell, go in with a few others on it. Then you can choose how to declare YOURSELF when you go back across the border. And I say this as a dual citizen who ships ebay items from both Canada and the US, to both Canada and the US.
@Eilonwynn:
An alternative to getting a US post office box is to have your packages shipped to a UPS Store outlet near the border. The one in Ogdensburg NY will receive and hold any shipment for a $5 fee. You don’t need to contact them in advance, and you can call and verify if your package has been received. On any given Saturday afternoon, the parking lot of the place is jammed and the license plates on every car are from Ontario or Quebec. I’ve picked up everything from a laptop battery to a set of car tires. And when crossing the border back into Canada, I’ve never once had to pay duty or GST. The Canada Customs agents just don’t give a shit.
How does that song go from Sheila Broflovski, from South Park-Longer, Bigger & Uncut???
Blame Canada.
On one hand i’d love nothing more then to call it a rather ridiculous charge, and go into a long spiel of what was to come, be it the customs charges to ship from state to state, but then the reality sits in that we haven’t hit that point in society just yet.
Instead the reality of the situation is that it’s a completely legal ‘tax’, I’ve run into it myself from buying things from Canada, as well as things from the UK. But all of those purchases included the ‘customs surcharge’ with the price, or I was made aware of it before submitting a payment to them.
So yes, it’s legal, you just got shortchanged by not being told about it by the seller.
Definitely not just UPS. I worked with a RESEARCH group that was split between the US and Canada, with the actual research taking place in Canada. The research materials we shipped? We got socked with customs. It was awful. Even though we explicitly and very clearly explained that they were not being shipped permanently. And for us, at least, they wouldn’t tell us the charges up front. Evidently, they like their cash on demand. We almost gave our receiving end a heart attack.
def not, i just ordered some car parts for my roommate from canada maybe a month and a half ago, no $50 charges
@create
“def not, i just ordered some car parts for my roommate from canada maybe a month and a half ago, no $50 charges”
car parts may be duty free as part of the Auto-Pact and the integrated US/Canada auto industry
UPS Ground. Every bloody time. Ugh.
In my experience, UPS (and FedEx, etc) tend to charge a $40-50 “brokerage fee” (plus GST on the declared value, and the brokerage fee) on many items coming up from the States to Canada. I think twice about dealing with anyone who will only ship UPS, as they tend to way overstate shipping to start with, plus this.
The way to go is USPS – you’ll still get a bill many times, but it will be for $5 plus GST on the declared value of the item.
As for people being asked to declare items as gifts or lower the declared value, I see it as simply working the system a little, not illegal. The buyer has already agreed to part with their money, and a little understanding and help trying to work through the red tape is much appreciated.
The bulk of that $50 charge is almost certainly NOT a government tax, but a fee charged by UPS to process the package. There is some tax, but the additional fee is HUGE.
This is over and above their shipping charge, generally undisclosed or unknown to the seller and buyer, and grossly unfair. It’s a cash cow of course which is why they continue to do it year after year. People pay the fees and think it’s a mandatory government tax, which is not the case at all.
To avoid this charge, NEVER EVER ship by UPS from the U.S. to Canada. Use a reputable carrier like the U.S. Postal Service (USPS not UPS) and the charge is simply the actual taxes + $5.00.
Its been already posted, but there have been a lot of people having saying declaring the item as a gift is a way to dodge customs fees, but that only works to a point. You still have to declare a value, and if it exceeds $60 they can charge you duties and taxes on it. Now a lot of it depends on the discretion of the CBSA person, but if they see an ipod being sent as a gift chances are it will get charged.
I used to work at a Canada Post retail outlet. Depending on how the Canadian received his goods, the charge may very well have been kosher.
When a package is imported into Canada, there are three scopes of expense, tax (Goods & Services tax which is now 5% and Provincial Sales Tax which varies depending on the province), duty (additional fees placed on the import of specific items, usually to protect the Canadian market, this is rarely applied but can sometimes be seen on high cost luxury items like jewelry and such) and customs brokerage.
Tax is a predetermined amount (a %) set forth by the government. Canada customs is supposed to collect tax on all imported commercial goods with a value of over $25 Cdn. In reality Canada customs is highly overworked and has a tendency to flag many items through without charging tax, even though they are supposed to. Right now the system is desperately short customs officers and the customs officers are having labour relations issues over things like being overworked and not being allowed to have guns, so a lot of stuff when sent via USPS, slips through without getting dinged. Anyhow, my point is, the sender has no control over the practice of charging tax. In theory all commercial goods entering the country are being charged tax, regardless of how they are being sent.
Duty is also outside of the seller’s control and is in the hands of the government. I am not too knowledgable about it, but I can tell you that it is very rarely if ever applied, and that it can be appealed if an excessive amount is charged.
Customs brokerage is where it gets cute. Any carrier has the right to clear customs as they see fit. In order to clear customs, your package must have a guarantor, basically somebody that accept the financial responsibility of collecting the tax that will be charged by customs, on your behalf. Customs doesn’t really care if you are good for it, as they are not in the business of collections, so they bill as the package goes through.
Canada Post charges a $5 free for customs brokerage, meaning that when you send an item USPS, it gets passed off to Canada Post, who accept the financial responsibility to pay that tax on your behalf. When your package gets to Canada, it will be handed over to the addressee when he or she pays the tax that was charged, whatever duty may have been charged, and a $5 brokerage fee for their troubles.
UPS on the other hand has a very sneaky sliding scale for customs brokerage, which varies depending on the value of your purchase, in theory, because their brokers (it’s not actually them doing the brokerage but a brokerage firm on their behalf) accept a bigger liability the higher the cost of the tax will be. You can see their basic brokerage fee schedule here [www.ups.com] They also charge some shady “Import preparation” fees and silly things like that $2.95 here $14.95 there, to punch it up a bit.
In Canada you also pay tax on the fees you are charged by the broker to cover the tax you were charged on whatever you bought. Are you confused yet?
Fedex has higher fees than UPS, however you will not find very many sellers willing to ship Fedex to Canada because Fedex has a policy of billing the sender account for any unpaid customs or brokerage fees and once a sender gets screwed by Canadian customers unwilling to pay the outrageous Fedex bill a few times, he or she switches to UPS or USPS. UPS and Canada Post on the other hand, hold the addressee responsible for the cost.
Once I ordered $70 worth of clothing from torrid.com. Little did I know they shipped via FedEx. They came without any COD but weeks later I got a bill from FedEx for $120 in tax and customs brokerage fees. The cost to import the stuff was even more than the stuff was worth.
It’s extra tricky, because Canada Revenue charges tax based on the value in Canadian dollars, so what the exchange rate is at can have a significant impact on the final cost as well if it is an item that is similarly priced in Canada and the US.
I have no idea about purolator, but I am guessing it would be a screw job as well. Canada Post is the only carrier I know of short of your own car or your aunt Gladys who is heading over to Montreal for a hockey game, that does not use third party brokerage services and profit from it. All of those other carriers insert middle men and questionable fees to try and profit from the transaction as much as possible. Is it kosher? Yes, because if you don’t want to pay it, then don’t accept the package. Is it shady and crappy? Yes.
Are Canadians who do not understand how the system works, aren’t informed before hand, and get mad, throw fits or refuse to pay when they get billed or have to pay to get their parcel part of the reason why fewer people and companies are willing to ship to Canada? You better believe it.
Incidentally with Canada Post, UPS and any carrier, if you believe you have been charged too much for your item, you can appeal it.
A lady at our post office had ordered a white gold and black pearl pin off ebay. She got it for $125 from some type of jewelry clearance seller, even though it had a very high original value. When it came in the mail, customs had opened the parcel and saw the old price tage on the box that said $389 and charged her tax according to that value. She paid the artificially high tax charge, got her parcel and then filled out a form to appeal the assessment, along with proof of the actual value in the form of a printed paypal receipt and copies of the ebay transaction. It was recalculated and she had a check in the mail within 4 months.
Just because you mark it as “gift” does not mean the recipient will get it duty free. Customs tends to be meaner if they decide it wasn’t a gift.
And the problem is just the courier companies. USPS/Canada Post don’t have that problem.
I refuse to ship via UPS for this very reason. Too many of my customers getting hit with $60+ in fees on a $10 purchase. UPS lied to me every time, insisting they were not charging a fee and had delivered the package, while the customers would call me and tell me the UPS driver is holding the package hostage and demanding cash payment for these huge fees. Bunch of f’ing liars on the Canadian customs side of UPS. They also claimed the fees were all Canadian government fees, however, the $40 “inspection fee” is all UPS.
I switched to USPS for all packages. Customers love it (3 day delivery via priority mail!), Canadians never have any trouble with it, and it’s half the price of UPS for most small packages. Oh, and they pick my packages up at my house for no additional charges. I just set them on my porch in the morning and that’s all there is to it.
@jimconsumer: UPS charges brokerage. Not making aware you, as a shipper, is pure fraud.
This is why when I’m searching eBay, I check “US only”. I have had trouble shipping to and buying from Canada. It’s alwasys “Customs problems”. It sits for weeks waiting to clear customs and then thy add a VAT to it for the CA people.
I have much better luck buying from China!
@TexasScout: You have only USA’s customs to blame. It’s just your luck, that you got faster proceedings with Chinese packages. Anything coming into USA will experience custom’s delays. They raised checkups since 9/11, but didn’t hire enough new personnel.
Blame your own government…
As a Canadian who has received many packages from the United States, I can assure you that it is pretty much only UPS that pulls this crap. Other shipping companies seem to magically manage to deliver packages without these ‘mandatory’ extra costs. Funny that, eh?
This is the main reason why I stopped using eBay. Shipping rates to Canada are always exorbitant; generally to the extent that the cost of shipping will eliminate any savings you were hoping to get by buying used off of eBay as opposed to new in a store. Even if you can find what you’re looking for, and shipping isn’t an additional 40%, there’s always the chance you’ll get hit for $50 at the border. As such, I now only use eBay if I’m looking for an incredibly hard to find item (this summer I bought a book which has been out of print in Canada for two decades, but can be found easily in the U.S. — the shipping was almost 700% of the purchase price.)
If you see a Canadian Customs paper enclosed then it is legit. It is usually GST and $5 re-shipping fee, but I highly doubt you bought something on ebay for around $1000. C.O.D. is usually a shipping charge the seller implies on the item because shipping probably cost more than what was stated- if so, contact the ebayer, leave negative feedback and never do business again with them EVER!
As a Canadian, I’ve discovered you can avoid the surprise UPS charges by getting express or airmail shipping whenever possible. Sometimes it only saves you a couple dollars (the faster shipping costs more) but at least I feel less ripped off!
If possible, as your ebay seller to declare the item being worth very little, and hopefully you’ll avoid those pesky charges!
As pointed out several times in ths thread.
The charges have nothing to do with Canada, or the Canadian government.
UPS gouges Canadians shipping anything over the border, and FedEx comes in a close second.
I’ve shipped thousands of dollars in product through USPS with no issues, no lost packages, and no made up fees.
In short you’re paying $50 for someone to fill in some paperwork and pay a few bucks of GST to Canada Customs.
What to do:
TURN DOWN the parcel, call back the courier and tell them you’ll take care of the brokerage yourself.
Go to a CBSA office, fill in some paperwork, get a release document, go back to the courier’s depot, claim your package using the release document you got from CBSA.
If you think the above is worth $50 the go right ahead and pay the brokerage fee.
Source: [www.radio-canada.ca] [french]
So much for “Free Trade”. Now that we essentially have dollar parity (and as long as the U.S. keep killing its banks and having hurricane release parties it’ll definitely stay that way) and price parity, what’s the point in imposing these stupid duties and taxes? Especially on products worth less than $1000. I could accept such levies on boats, trailers, cars, trucks, outhouses and other more expensive products that could take money out of the mouths of hungry Canadian politicians, but charging duty on a couple of houndred dollars’ worth of pants and shirts is just asshattery.
I’ve been hit by the import charge before: my iPod was listed as worth “$0.01″, so no duty, but my phone wasnt, and i got hit with $60 on a $100 phone
UPS or whoever charged me $35 for them to fill out the customs form, on top of any duty, which is why it was $60
It’s not worth it for me to even look at buying from Americans on ebay.
Here is how it works….
You pay for your E-bay item INCLUDING SHIPPING. Canada Customs (CBSA) can charge duties if required BUT WILL ALWAYS CHARGE GST AND ‘HANDLING FEE”. When I had my Member of Parliment ( MP )( akin to US Senator ) look into it, he told me that CBSA is to get GST ON ALL ITEMS – PERIOD.
What U.S. shippers don’t understand is that when they ship via courier ( UPS, FedEX, DHL ) that is when the scam starts. The U.S. shippers pay for the shipment BUT when it gets to the customer in Canada…. all of a sudden these companies want a ‘brokerage fee’. If you don’t pay it, you don’t get your package OR, even better, they let you have it and send you a bill weeks later – usually for $20.00+!! Often times this makes the cost of shipping MORE than the value of the item. If you try to dispute it – they send it TO A COLLECTION AGENCY!! When I spoke to CBSA and Toronto Police they BOTH agreed that it was a GREY area that bordered on FRAUD. Why? Maybe I want to ‘broker’ my own package. Did they call and ask me if I wanted their services? NO. It is akin to me coming to your house, cutting your grass with out asking permission, then sending you a bill for services rendered that you WILL pay or be sent to collection.
So, U.S. shippers be aware of this gouging by couriers up here – that is why Canadians make their ‘strange’ requests. Best way to ship is via U.S. Postal Service