yeah, but what were they before? the "experts" say that improving the fuel efficiency of the least efficient cars (SUVs, etc) save more oil than small cars, as the % difference is greater. I think people have a reason to buy those big monstroseties regardless of what fuel costs are (small business tax loopholes for one example), might as well get a more fuel efficient model while they are at it. my car already gets 28 on the highway and is nearly paid for :)

I've never quite gotten the point of a hybrid SUV. Is a vehicle that big really necessary? Besides, the hybrid versions of these don't have the power to really even haul the vehicles weight around. I'm no expert on the matter, but they felt awfully sluggish when I was test driving them (more out of curiosity than an actual interest in purchasing one).

I ended up buying a smaller, more fuel-efficient car for less money.

19MPG for the durango hybrid? What the hell does the standard model get?

-looks that up-

Oh.

16MPG.

Well .. .that's worth the giant replacement cost for the batteries, isn't it.

I want a Hummer H1 byprid! 12 MPG for the win, suckas!

Seriously, why even bother with these. But then again I guess if you have your heart set on one of these vehicles having the "hybrid" moniker attached might do something to assuage your guilt even if it won't really do anything for your pocketbook or the environment.

Proof that Hybrid is just a buzz word to the car companies.

@shadowkahn: Is that in the city, on the highway, or combined average?

There's also a nifty Gas2.org article about GM and their desire to keep selling high-profit SUVs. Check [gas2.org] for the full details.

The fuel economy was increased 50% up to 20 mpg city and 21 mpg highway from 12 and 15 respectively, no small feat for a vehicle that large!

Suddenly I don't feel so bad about my future E46 BMW M3 coupe getting 'only' ~27mpg on the highway.

"1-2) (tie) Chrysler Aspen Hybrid & Dodge Durango Hybrid 19 MPG"

...and yet somehow these vehicles are granted access to HOV lanes when my 40 MPG TDI Passat (or the 50-60 MPG golfs/jettas) is told to suck it.

Shame.

@shadowkahn: I have a 2002 Dodge Durango (non-hybrid). I do about 90% highway driving and get about 21 MPG.

The 11 most efficient hybrids:

Toyota Prius: 46 mpg
Honda Civic: 42 mpg
Toyota Camry: 34 mpg
Nissan Altima: 34 mpg
Ford Escape / Mercury Mariner / Mazda Tribute (2wd): 32 mpg
...
Uh, maybe they should have made their list a little shorter when the 3-way tie for 9-11th least efficient hybrid is also a 3 way tie for 5-7th most efficient hybrid...

source: fueleconomy.gov, 2008 hybrid vehicles

This is the direction we need to go with hybridization. Actually, work trucks and vans are needed even more. Plumbers aren't exactly able to cut back on their mileage OR drive one of these things.

@copious28: My dad had the Ford Escape hybrid. He feels "safer" in a bigger car and 4WD is a necessity in snow.

I drove it around when I went to visit and didn't like it. It definitely did NOT have the same "pick up and go". I also felt like I had more leg/head room in my Wrangler.

These are big SUV's what were you expecting 40-50mpg. A Toyota Highlander is not the same size as a Prius or a Honda InSight

@shadowkahn: ..and we all know the numbers they post for the so called MPG on vehicles aren't true for real life use anyway, those mpg figures are measured with a tail wind with a high octane blend of gas, on a smooth road with no stop lights, on a clear sunny day.

I had a 2007 Ford Escape Hybrid 4x4 for about 10 months before I claimed Lemon Law on it.

I NEVER got better than 17MPG City in the entire 10 months that I had it. Also, they don't tell you that if you run the A/C, it will NEVER go into Hybrid mode.

I was basically told that my driving habits (short distance back and forth to work and highway trips on weekends, lots of stop and go traffic) didn't warrant the best fuel economy for hybrids.

So I have a V6 now and I am getting better than 25 MPG average with the same driving habits.

Hybrid is just another way of saying 'Gimmick to sell more cars'.

@shadowkahn: Actually, a 20% improvement in economy is pretty impressive. It just doesn't seem that way because the numbers are low, so it's "only" 3 mpg, but it's the same as boosting a small car from 35 mpg to 42 mpg. Looked at another way, it's like hacking $0.80 off each gallon of gas.

@Mercury POX:

"4wd a "necessity" in snow? H.S.! You and I have gone through deep winters without starvation, without amputated limbs nor frozen noses. And without 4wd. As a matter of fact we did it quite compforably, even with a little more shovel-heft required.

- The Escape was not "peppy" enough for you?

Poor spoiled baby. And you "felt like" you had more body-room in your Wrangler (which has a fuel-line the size of a garden-hose)...stop it! Yer breakin' me heart!

Feh.

There was a recent suggestion to replace mpg with gphm (gallons per hundred miles). The Durango hybrid takes 5.3 gphm, compared to the non-hybrid which takes 6.3 gphm. So, it saves 1 gphm. By comparison, the Camry hybrid gets about 34 mpg = 2.9 gphm, compared to the non-hybrid which gets something like 26 mpg = 3.8 gphm, so it saves a similar 0.9 gphm. It seems like, based on exactly two data points, that you save the same amount of gas regardless what kind of vehicle you were going to buy...

@e.varden: I'm hoping your post is tongue in cheek.

If not, your driveway is not as long as mine :)

Can I get a comparison of cubic storage space vs. MPG?

Its all well and good that a Civic and a Prius get 40+ MPGs hybrid, but can they haul DJ equipment that I need to cart around?

@BrianDaBrain: Well, for some people, yeah, it is necessary. One of my good friends has a Mariner hybrid because she and her husband have a baby and two Great Danes. There just isn't any way you're getting everybody in a sedan! And 32 mpg, compared to 19 for their previous car, a Honda Pilot, is really NOT bad.

I have the same issue -- my husband and I have a toddler, a baby on the way, and an 85-pound German shepherd. It would be hard enough to fit the dog and one car seat in the back seat of a regular car (assuming the dog wouldn't drool all over the kid and lick him half to death, which he would), but it would be completely impossible to fit the dog and TWO car seats. Plus, having a large dog sitting right next to my kids seems like a big hazard in the event that there was an accident.

I suppose a station wagon is another option, but most of them don't have significantly better mileage than my small SUV.

@Steeb2er: If you want cargo hauling space, you're probably going to be looking at something like a minivan, or maybe a "tall wagon" type vehicle like a Scion xB. SUVs don't tend to have a lot of cargo space for their size, because the high ground clearance and 4WD systems result in a high load floor that eats up space.

I didn't even know there were that many hybrids on the market to begin with.

The Escape Hybrid is actually a very effecient SUV. In NYC, where they are used as taxis, there is no other alternative other than the Crown Vic or Sienna minivan. I always try to get one of the hybrid taxis because, as a driver told me once, they only have to fill up three or four times per week. Versus a Crown Vic taxi which needs a fuel-up once or twice per day.

@ne1butu: City traffic is idea for hybrids and the worst for regular cars, so that doesn't surprise me. Crown Vics are heavy and kind of archaic. They're lucky to get much over 15 mpg in stop-and-go-traffic. Even on the highway I only get 20 mpg in mine.

Most of those "gas wasting hybrids" get better mpg than I get in my perfectly acceptable car!

I've driven the Escape Hybrid quite a few times. It's not true that it won't go into "hybrid mode" when the A/C is on; it's always in hybrid mode. Maybe you just mean that the engine won't cut off. Most other hybrids do that same thing. It's not consuming that much while idling under no load. Just turn off your compressor and let the residual cold blow in if you think your comfort isn't worth the price of gas. You probably don't like climate control either, because you never know if the compressor is running or not.

The oomph isn't quite the same as the 6 cylinder, but it's quicker than the 4 cylinder.

Also, it's more of a "crossover" than SUV -- it's unibody. It's certainly not massive, either! If I were in the market for an SUV, I'd certainly be looking at an Explorer or Expedition if I needed serious space or passenger capacity. It's better than either of those as a daily driver, though.

@nataku83:

The Altima hybrid only gets 34? My wife's 2008 straight gas 4 cylinder Altima gets 31+...

@copious28:

wait... so substituting a crappy MPG for a slightly less crappier MPG is 'commendable'?

car x = 10mpg
switching to
car x hybrid 15mpg

is STILL WORSE THAN

car x = 10mpg
switching to
car y (non hybrid) = 30mpg

these companies need to stop justifying inefficiency period. no car should be even produced for the masses under 15mpg.

@BrianDaBrain: Yes. Some of us take 5-9 kids camping every month in the spring/summer and snowboarding in the winter. ;-)

1) There is more to it than just gas mileage. My wife's hybrid SUV is a SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle). Thus better for the environment.

2) My wife wanted a SUV. That is what she wanted to drive (regardless of how much she is hauling on a daily basis, she is entitled to drive the type of vehicle she prefers).

Granted, we could be driving a more efficient vehicle (smaller sedan, etc), but since we want to drive an SUV, we can opt for a hybrid, which is certainly more efficient than its gas-only counterpart. We are making an effort to drive the most efficient vehicle we can - in the class of vehicles that meets our needs and desires.

3) I wanted to buy a vehicle that would support R&D towards alternative fuel vehicles. If more consumers purchased more efficient vehicles, the manufactures would meet the demand.

@allnitecp: Yeah, I've heard the same thing. City miles, the hybrid-ness doesn't kick in, but long distances it's a great buy. I'm curious to know if the sucky part is more Ford than Hybrid.

Sometimes it isn't a matter of efficiency or inefficiency. Power, torque, towing capacity, etc. are all important.

While I would love to get as much MPG as possible, I'm only going to own one vehicle and that vehicle has to be able to pull a bass boat up a steep wet ramp and tow it home. That means my daily driver is a 4x4 pickup. Would I like to get better MPG? Of course, but for many people like me it isn't the primary concern or even the secondary concern.

When someone produces a hybrid/green/fuel efficient/whatever vehicle I can afford that does what I need, I'll buy one and so will a lot of other people. Until then it's 16MPG city and I'm not going to regret it.

@ceejeemcbeegee:

Actually hybrids are more efficient in the city. On the highway, the gas engine runs more (you want to run electric more, which happens more in the city).

We had a conventional Ford Escape, which wasn't a good car. I would suspect that the Ford part is the origin of the "suckiness".

Uhm, howie_in_az, what planet do you drive on in which you can achieve ~27MPG on the hwy with an E46 M3?

Was the engine swapped out with for an E36's 318ti's power plant?

While the E46 M3 is a brilliant car to drive, you are looking at significantly less than that. According to the EPA, you should expect closer to 21MPG and most of my E46 driving friends see way less than that.
MPG (city) 15
MPG (highway) 21
MPG (combined) 17

these things are a joke to say the least

@MercuryPDX:
4WD is not a necessity, it is a substitute for driver skill...and even then only when accelerating, or in the case of road-oriented AWD (Subaru, for example), cornering. It doesn't help you slow down or stop. That's the thing that actually gets people in trouble in snow.

Good (preferably studded) snow tires will do more for a car's capability in the snow than 4WD will, and a driver who knows what they are doing and has a sense for what the car is doing will do even more than that.

@ne1butu:
I've never really comprehended the Crown Vic as a taxi. Great for the highway patrol...and the ruggedness is justifiable for the police. But I found the purpose-built 4 cylinder taxis in Japan just as comfortable as the off-the-shelf 8 cylinders in the US. V8 city fuel economy just does not make sense.

Hey, in Alaska, there is at least one company that was running Kia Rios a few years ago.

@mmathers:
That's only 3 MPG above the old EPA fuel economy estimate. That's not hard to do in most cars. Your E46-driving friends just have lead feet. Tell them to buy Scangauges.

@ceejeemcbeegee:
You have that backwards. It's on the highway that the "hybridness" (regenerative braking, running at low speed with the engine off, the elimination of idling) doesn't kick in.

And yeah, there had to have been something wrong with that guy's Escape, and that is what Lemon Laws are for.

@balthisar: Actually the combined Horsepower of the ICE and the Electric Engine in the FEH is 155 HP, which is more than the 4 cylinder and the same as the V6. That said, the FEH weights about 300 lbs more so that is where the oomph difference might be.

FWIW, I have a 08 FEH with just under 3K miles on the clock. My lifetime MPG is 34 and my last two tanks has been 550+ miles (or 38 mpg).

I'm averaging 35MPG (sometimes more) on my 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid. It's all in how you drive it. If you're flooring it to a redlight, you're never going to reach those advertised MPG ratings.

So why do they list the Ford Escape and Mazda Tribute as 'tied' for 9-10 place. They're the same vehicle with different badges on.. Same for the Highlander and Lexus RX400. They should have excluded one of the models and opened up the field to more cars.

@TechnoDestructo: I think Crown Vics get used as taxis because they're roomy and because heavy-duty fleet versions are readily available cheaply at police auctions. There aren't a lot of 4-cyl cars that can seat two adults in the back and hold all their luggage in the trunk.

@e.varden: I had a 2-WD vehicle, and lived in Maine for two winters where we had record-breaking precipitation. I had my fair share of sliding down hills, getting stuck in local minima, and got pretty good at pushing my car out of small patches of slush while my girlfriend tapped the gas pedal.

Sometimes, however, an onslaught of 4 inches of snow in 10 minutes would make the roads just about undrivable for a 2WD vehicle

Once, after pushing up, then sliding down a hill in a local minima for about 45 minutes, a salt truck driver pulled over, and, through a combination of salt, sand, and him pushing along with me (not only was he friendly, but the guy was built like an ox), I was able to escape the trap. If not for his intervention, we probably would have been stuck over night. In some environments, I can totally understand wanting a 4WD for safety and convenience. Of course, Mainers all drive Subarus for that reason.

I did the next most sensible thing, and moved to San Francisco, where we haven't seen snow since.

@Sanveann & ceejeemcbeegee: I stand corrected!! :D Still not for me though.

@PDX909: If they had done that, then the list of 11 least fuel efficient hybrids would've included every hybrid sold here but the Prius!

Hybrids are suppose to get better mileage in the city due to increased use or the regenerative braking (using energy from braking the charge the battery). Of course if you are someone who has to race up to the next red light the hybrid will not do much for your improved MPG.

@nataku83: Interesting perspective on most vs. least fuel efficient vehicles.

Off to ride my BIKE home from work.

@mmathers: According to various people that have E46 M3s (at m3forum.com or .net, I forget), they get "north of 27mpg" on long highway cruises. The original EPA estimates were 24mpg/highway, recently 'devalued' to 21mpg. The EPA also estimates that my 2003 E46 330i sedan is only good for 28mpg (previously 30mpg) on the highway, yet I routinely get 33-34mpg at 75mph. In fact, just this morning on my 35-mile drive in I got 33.5mpg with an avg speed of 70mph.

I'll let you know for sure when I actually own a grey over black M3 coupe (6-speed, no flappy paddles for me) in about a year :)

@TechnoDestructo: I know. I'm not in the "I have 4WD, so that means I can drive like normal in winter conditions" crowd. My dad finds it necessary, I think it's nice to have but not required, and by no means a "Get out of snow free" pass.

@MercuryPDX: I'm sorry, but folks who feel safer in large vehicles? It's only because their large vehicles crush us in our small vehicles. But that's a whole other rant.

I really don't like this trend towards overly large vehicles. England gets along just fine with tinier vehicles, their smaller roads and high petrol costs force them to. Why can't we?

@MercuryPDX: *grin* i got my drivers license in a blizzard. it's all about how you learn. i've never had 4wd, and i've driven in some baaad conditions. it cracks me up to now live in CA where folks freak out about driving when they see a tiny bit of rain.

@Steeb2er: I think you might be better off with a wagon or a hatch with the back seats taken out. Depending on what your DJ equipment is. My old Cavalier could actually even haul 2 x 4s with the back seat down but all the new cars (including my Elantra) have less and less cargo space.

I'm SUV neutral. If you want one, have fun with it, just you have officially taken away EVERY right to bitch about gas prices unless you can justify it more than "I want to sit up high" or "I need 4WD" or "I gotta haul the kids and our pet cow to Walmart* and soccer practice."

My dad has a double cab Tacoma pickup truck and 90% of the time it's just a people hauler (or a person hauler.) At 20MPG it's better than the Jimmy he was driving (at 15mpg) but he refuses to let me drive him around in my sedan. He used to have an excuse for the Jimmy by the way (hauling around a wheelchair for my late grandmother) but right now he might haul the occasional lawn mower or something but nothing that couldn't fit in a more efficient vehicle.

Gas isn't at the point where it makes sense to have a second car for more efficiency.