Sign Of The Times: $100 "Pay At The Pump" Limit
Reader Paul sends in this photo of a sign he saw at a gas station in Texas. First people were upset that gas stations were putting "outrageously high" holds of $100 on their cards when they paid at the pump. Now $100 is just the most you can buy at the pump without going inside and having them swipe your card. Sad.
Here's a Washington Post article about consumers who aren't able to fill their gas tanks for the usual (former?) "pay at the pump" limit of $75.
One expert explains:
The average station makes a profit of $60 at the pump per day, says Jeff Lenard, a spokesman for the National Association of Convenience Stores. "It's not uncommon to lose money selling gas. So the idea of losing $20 or $50 [in charge backs] is too much."
...
Stations "are faced with two bad options -- allow the pump to go beyond $75 and risk not getting paid . . . or take a customer from frustrated [with gas prices] to outright anger," Lenard said.
At the Pump And Past The Limit [Washington Post]
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Comments:
i cant see gas stations only making 60 bucks in profit a day. I know the ratio is pretty lean but come on...
Hmmmm. I thought it was more or less impossible to do a charge back on charges at pay at the pump systems?
The gas is all burned up by the time the charge back goes through, so it's hard for the station to prove you got it and hard for you to prove you didn't.
I saw this same sticker yesterday. OP must have gone to Safeway for gas.
@simplegreen: At my regular station, they could probably increase profits if they only employed one cashier and two people smoking cigarettes out back instead of the one cashier and four people smoking out back.
Also - wouldn't it have been easier to say:
Limits on Pay at Pump Purchases
Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover, Debit: $100.00
@Rectilinear Propagation: That's what I was thinking. A chargeback on gas? Ahhh, yes, the ones who screw the system and we all end up paying. Selfish bastards.
$60 at the pump...or $60 PER pump?
I can the reasoning behind applying this to credit card purchases where there is no verification of who you are, but I don't think they should be allowed to do this for pin-based transactions.
I don't see a problem here. If they place a hold over $100 on a debt card/credit card when using pay at the pump the customer is going to be really ticked off.
I don't get why this is, Sad.
You can always stop at $100, hang the nozzle, then pump the rest of your tank. It IS possible to fill your tank up by using two different transactions. It won't hurt your engine.
My heart bleeds for those poor, unfortunate souls who drive full-size SUVs that use 25 gallons or more a week. It really does. NOT.
I use something like six gallons a week because I wasn't one of those bozos who had to go buy a Tahoe for no better reason than that I could. In the 1990s, it was because I'm a cheap bastard. In the 2000s, it's because I'm too smart to fall for GMC's "it's not more than you need..." BS.
@simplegreen: Here is a link to a NPR Report on where and how gas stations make their money.
Stations love it when after paying for your gas you get a soda/bottle of water and then a car wash from their little station wash.
@thelushie: Someone did point out a computer error could result in being overcharged in that get the receipt for gas story but that'd still be really rare.
@Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity: Good point.
@Rectilinear Propagation: I was coming back to amend my statement. I just read it too. There are reasons to do a chargeback on gas as stated on the other post.
But doing it just to be a jerk and screwing the rest of us is wrong and they are selfish bastards.
I take it that you don't live in hicktown, USA in the winter. Families use SUV's/Trucks here for what they were made for. They live in the country and need to haul trailers among other things and in the winter that means a ton of mud and snow. Way to generalize everyone who buys these things. But I will agree people buying these things in the city is completely retarded unless they are building contractors who need to haul things.
Many pumps in my area.... Metro Milwaukee, have a $50 max pay at the pump. I have seen signs stating that it is a credit card policy...
I'm really confused about why this is a story. Is it about the terminal fees or about the chargeback liability or about SUV-wielding guys/girls who must fill in separate transactions or about low-profit-margin gasoline sales or what? Very poorly written.
Those $100 limits are typically not set by the individual gas station, but is rather a contracted limit between the payment processer, Visa/MC/Amex, and the station brand parent company (BP, Conoco, Exxon, etc.) $60 a day is probably right for the average station in fuel sales. Inside sales - such as candy bars - are how the station stays in business.
I drove from Jersey to Michigan last week and I could swear I saw something even worse at one of the stations on the Ohio Turnpike. It wasn't a 'Pay-at-the-Pump' limit, but a general credit card limit, inside OR outside. It was $100 limit for any credit card except for their own branded card, which had a $150 limit.
@tom2133: Maybe for this station in particular. On my drive from Atlanta to Orlando yesterday, somewhere on the border of FL on 95 there was a similar sticker on the pump but it was 50$ for MC, VISA & 75 DISCO, 100 AMEX. I'd never seen anything like it before, I just thought it was FL being weird.
I live in the Bay Area and I mostly see $75 limits at the pump. I almost hit that maximum filling up my Toyota.
These $100 ceilings can put a temporary dent in a passenger car driver's bank accounts if they use a debit card or check card. A lot of places will just charge the $100 as a pre-authorization. If you only put $40 in your tank but are hit with a pre-auth for $100, that can make cash tight for paycheck to paycheck customers for a few days.
And to make things a little worse, quite a few stations with the intent to prevent drive offs are making their pumps prepay or credit card only. So it's either go inside and estimate an amount which may be wrong or go outside and have to run multiple transactions. Some systems even limit the number of outside transactions.
In the end, these systems were designed to make things more convenient for the station and customer. However, it's quickly becoming the opposite.
If you drive a large vehicle like a truck or van you can easily smack up against that $75 or $100 limit.
Me, a full tank is about $50. So I walk. I moved back in March to a new apartment that permits me to walk/bike to work, and I love it. I wish that everyone had that option.
It's been this way for a while. I've got one of those "kick mother earth in the face" SUVs with a 31 gallon tank, so I've had to either do the two transaction pump, or just be satisfied with my $75 or $99 fill up.
And before I'm hung in effigy, I bought it because I am restoring an old house and need the cargo room, and I still have to move myself and my family as well.
That was my thought. Just run two separate transactions and it defeats their controls. Bwahahahaha!
QT or QuikTrips are great. They will issue you a "PumpStart" card. You insert it into the machine, then pump as much as you want. You pay when you are done and they only charge/authorize the amount you actually use.
Some other places like Loaf & Jug or Kwik Shop (Anything KROGER) actually authorize a set amount (like $75.00). When you are finished, it takes the money from your account but doesn't release the authorization for 2-3 days. If you buy $30 in fuel, it ties up $105 in your account.
It would be nice if they could do something similar to QT since they issue shopper's cards to everyone anyway.
@Rectilinear Propagation: Yes, I did one when my wallet was stolen. Verifying identity with your zip code doesn't do much to stop a thief that also has your driver's license.
This is why I use cash. I never buy that much gas at one time (I don't think my car has a tank that big, but I never get it much lower than what the gauge calls a quarter), but I like the discount I get at the station I prefer, and I don't have to worry about extreme holds.
Oddly enough, the cheapest gas station in town (the one I go to) is a kinda old looking place without any grocery or repair place connected. All there is to buy there is gas and compressed air. They undercut the other stations by a good 5 cents, so I don't know how they do it if they really make under $60 a day. They've been around a while and have always been cheap, so I doubt they're trying to cut their losses and sell as much gas as possible before they close up shop.
Disclaimer: I live in NJ and drive a PT Cruiser. NJ because it's a nice place, the Cruiser because I could afford it.
That sucks, but a lot of people drive overly large vehicles. I'm glad it takes less than $50 to fill up my car from empty. Of course it used to cost less than $30... :(
@Sollus: I've always said that I have no problem with ranchers, farmers, etc. to buy the large vehicles because they're actually being used for what they're for. The number of people, though, who buy those vehicles and don't need them is ridiculous. There's probably equal or more number of people in the city whose hardest drive is going to be getting on the interstate and not hauling a ton of things like rural users.
This isn't about the chargebacks, this is about the credit card fraud. Gas stations tends to be the easiest mark for credit card fraud. It takes little to authenticate, at most needing a zip code.
I first encountered this a few years ago when I was driving cross-country in a U-Haul truck. Even back then, it was easy to hit the $100 limit when you were filling a 50 gallon tank.
@Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity:
You still have to go inside. When your card goes through a second time a code comes back alerting the clerk, they are supposed to ask you if you've used the card there earlier and if you say no then that means someone else has used your number. The clerk has to ack the code and let the transaction go through. so you have to go inside to do this.
I had a resturaunt in a small town we were staying say a code came up when we went to pay for out dinner since we had ate breakfast there earlier that day and refused to accept my payment then even though I assured them I knew I had ate there for breakfast so this second charge was legit.
@enine: Well, every time I have done this in NJ, it went through. I think the computers at Visa or wherever are savvy to what is happening, and shouldn't flag the transaction. When I worked at a gas station, we would only get a error message if we tried two transaction for the same amount in a short period of time, I.E. two charges for exactly 10.00. It would pop up as a dup(licate) and require us to hit "yes".
@Sollus: My DH theorizes that people drive Suburbans and such around NYC because then they don't feel the potholes.
@simplegreen: I can believe it. The key words in the article are: $60 in profits at the pump.
Gas stations typically use gasoline as a loss leader. The snack foods and soft drinks are were they make their money.
A station near me (DC area) has an unannounced $50 limit on CC use. When I got cut off, I went in and the attendant told me to just repeat the process. Whether the 2nd charge would have gone through if I hadn't gone in, I am not sure. I'll have to try it next time. $100 or even $75 would be fine, but at current prices even a car needs over $50 to fill up.
When I'm met with a low limit for a fillup (say $50) I just do the first $50, close out that transaction, then swipe again and finish filling up.
Solution: Don't drive a vehicle with a 25 gallon tank. Typically, the only vehicles with these tanks are SUVs and "light trucks" in the 3500-6500 GVWR range.
For some reason, most stations around here in Dallas/Fort Worth, although they list the maximum at $75, they allow me to go over pretty consistently.
With a 27 gallon tank, it's easy to hit $75.
I don't bitch because the truck is paid for. I just budget for the gas.
I feel that at the rate we're going, we're going to see limits not unlike those during the OPEC embargo.
What stops a customer from having two separate $99 transactions at the pump?
There is a station here in Chicago with a $50 limit, and it actually stops the pump at $48. The sad thing is, I have started to it hit when filling up our 99 Camry. When I do hit the limi, I just swipe the card a second time and finish up.
Be sure to refuse to show ID!