Best Buy Refuses To Replace Your Defective TV Because You Followed Their Instructions
Umar bought a DLP in 2005 with a $400 Best Buy Performance Service Plan. The TV keeps blowing through expensive bulbs (Umar has replaced 7 $275 bulbs in 3 years,) and rather than wait 2 weeks for a technician every time this happens, Best Buy provided a telephone number and told him to order and replace the bulbs himself. Now, because he followed their directions, Best Buy is refusing to cover the TV under the "lemon" provision of the service agreement.
Umar writes:
I purchased a new DLP-HDTV w/ an extra paid-for 4-year extended service/warranty plan (additional $400) from Best Buy on May 28, 2005. The total amount spent: $3,285.61!
The TV keeps blowing up it's expensive bulbs (DLP-lamps). At first, a service-call was placed and a week and a half later, a tech' came to replace the bulb/lamp. He stated that in the future, I should just call the 800-number and order a bulb and install it myself (he showed me how to do it, a simple 5-10 minute procedure). This would avoid down-time.
Well, since then another 6 bulbs have been replaced in about 2 1/2 years. This is uncharacteristic for any TV.
The paid-for additional extended service/warranty has a policy to buy-back/exchange the TV if more than 3 services are performed. However, they are now stating that bulb-replacement isn't grounds for return/'lemon-law' because I didn't report each bulb-replacement as a service-call. Uhh, their own service tech' told me not to call in the future and instead order the bulbs directly. Also, it takes at least 1 to 2 weeks (quite often longer) for a service tech' to come to your residence. So, go w/o TV for 1-2+ weeks? Yea, ok...
They realize that there is something wrong w/ the TV, causing it to blow the bulbs so rapidly (each bulb costing $275+).
The Best Buy store manager (Brian) repeatedly stated initially that the TV should be bought-back by Best Buy because I have purchased a service plan and that there is an inherent fault w/ the TV. Corporate has thus far refused to buy-back/exchange. And the Best Buy store manager is now refusing to do a store buy-back saying he doesn't want the loss in profit/final-numbers. The local Best Buy is capable of doing a buy-back if the product is defective.
I purchased the expensive service-plan to be protected. Instead, I got a lemon for a TV.
Because it's been a few years since you purchased this TV your options are slightly limited. We think you might want to consider filing a small claims lawsuit against Best Buy. You have the receipts for the bulbs that were replaced under the protection plan, so a court may rule in your favor. Better yet, Best Buy might not even show up to court and you'll get a default judgment. You mentioned in your letter that you were in Texas, which has a $10,000 small claims limit, so you should be able to ask for a refund.
If you're intimidated by the process, check out this story from a reader who took Best Buy to small claims court over a washing machine and won.
And, not to be jerks, but this is the part where we remind you not to purchase "extended warranties" or "protection plans" from retailers. Get a credit card with extended warranty protection instead!
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Comments:
It's too early in the morning to start blaming the customer (so I won't) but I find it amazing that he was able to redeem $1,650 in replacement lamps. Pretty sure he's made up the money spent on the warranty and then some.
Now that I have that snark out of the way - people hate Toshiba....DLP TV's. There was a class action lawsuit against them for this very thing and subsequently Toshiba exited the business for the same reason Sharp, Hitachi and Panasonic did - they can't control lamp life because of all the factors.
So they end up looking stupid because a ballast runs hot, or a fan doesn't spin or a DMD board goes on the fritz.
I hope Umar is able to get this resolved. I really do, and with this being on Consumerist, hopefully someone somewhere in Minneapolis is reading.
Hate to say this, but does he have the TV behind a power conditioner? The biggest thing to blow bulbs, including lights that light your house are voltage drops and spikes. A power conditioner softens these drops and spikes, and you really want to have this on any of your expensive electronics. BTW most UPS's already have power conditioners built into them. And no I'm not talking about a surge protector, a surge protector won't protect against voltage drops, just surges. Believe me brown outs are as bad as voltage spikes to electronics.
Not to be a jerk, but your credit card warrantee wouldn't have covered ONE bulb, let alone 6. Credit Cards double the manufactuer's warranty, and Bulbs are considered "consumable" by them. DLP TV's is actually one place (and DLP Projo's) where in-house extended plans are worth while. 6x275 > $400. No?
Also, that being said, and I don't know you situation, if you leave the TV on 24/7 (especially in TX where we have notoriously awful power spikes and fluxes), you really could have changed the bulb that many times and had nothing wrong with the TV.
At any rate, good luck with best buy!
This is one of those stories where I'm totally behind the consumer. It especially irks me when anyone can see the common sense answer (including at one point the store manager), but because of "policy" etc. what should have been a simple case of replacing a faulty product *that is covered under a service plan* has turned into a potential court case...
My parents underwent a "service plan" fiasco back in the early days of Sky TV where they had bought a more expensive model of receiver with Surround sound etc. Under the service plan they paid for item was to be replaced with an item of "similar model" if it broke. It did break (after the model was discontinued), and for months Sky tried to get us to accept the cheapest receiver (which was free anyway) as a replacement rather than accept their side of the deal and give us the upgraded version of the receiver.
@desertdust: Wow if that's normal, I'm damn glad I didn't buy one of those, and a CRT based one instead. My 52 Inch RCA CRT rear projection TV is still going strong 3 years later.
When I worked at Best Buy for a little while in 2002-03, we started getting DLPs in, but we had Plasmas and even LCDs for a while before the DLPs. They always struck me as a dead-end technology for precisely this reason. Also, I wasn't impressed with how thick they were when you could get a much thinner LCD or Plasma. I really hope nobody's still buying them. Cases like Umar's should hopefully scare buyers away.
I'm glad my Samsung DLP uses LEDs with about a 20 year lifespan.
I stay away from Extended Warranties but when I got my SAMSUNG DLP HDTV Nov of 2004. So I did the unthinkable and bought one. I did so based from my experience with our office projector that uses replaceable bulbs and has burned out a couple of times. Following the same logic, it would have been more cost effective to get the EW in the long run than having to purchase the bulbs that cost a lot.
By 2007, I was having problems with my DLP screen (getting smudges). Having the warranty, my INNER AND OUTER screen got replaced. It turned out a good call for once although my bulb has never burned out on me from the time I purchased it. :)
Okay, why do people still buy Best Buy warranties? I learned years ago that they are meaningless and BB will do whatever they can to avoid giving you a cent off them. In my case, they refused to even look at my computer under their warranty, claiming they only had to touch it if the manufacturer refused. Well, the manufacturer said Best Buy sold me a box of junk. I never got one penny from Best Buy. But seriously people - if you have to go there and buy something, I would strongly suggest laughing in the face of the salesperson who tries to sell you a warranty.
I have heard of DLP bulbs not lasting very long. In fact, it seems to be a known issue:
[tv.about.com]
[www.willus.com]
Still, it sounds like your TV is killing bulbs way faster than others. Like Meg said, if you purchased with a credit card, start there. Then you could consider a small claims suit, but, before that, I would try contacting the manufacturer directly. Explaining your situation to them, might result in them replacing the TV or contacting Best Buy Corporate to arrange an in store replacement.
I've got no help for Umar but I'm going to follow loogee and bitch about Toshiba and DLPs.
I just replaced my second bulb in 2 years which is a little worse than what my local repair place thinks is reasonable but it gets worse when you find out that between late January and mid June the TV wasn't turned on once because a colour wheel had died and the whole light engine (~$730) needed replacing. And it was down so long because the part wasn't available from either of my repair place's suppliers OR Toshiba itself.
I'd have killed for an extended warranty on this piece of crap.
(It's an 62HM95 if anyone's looking at one on ebay/craigslist avoid it like the plague.)
Agreed.
I suspect the consumer has an electrical problem in his or her dwelling, although it is up to BestBuy to make this determination in regards to the warranty.
No to Best Buy/Circuit City/Sears for tvs. Yes to local appliances stores that actually care about your business.
It's often been admitted--by the manufacturers, no less--that DLP was simply intended as stop-gap technology between old CRT-style TVs and new flat-screen TVs.
That said, however, I know a few people with rear-projection DLP TVs who love them and haven't had a single problem.
"Better yet, Best Buy might not even show up to court and you'll get a default judgment."
I am not a lawyer, but you still have to present your case to the judge and convince the judge that best buy is at fault. Best buy not showing up just makes it easier to make a claim without getting shot down.
My Samsung DLP tv, which I bought in 2004, has never needed to have the bulb replaced and I feel I watch a considerable amount of tv!
While I believe Best Buy should have replaced the OP's tv I wonder why they waited to invoke the lemon clause until the 7th bulb blew instead of the 3rd? I would have been calling Best Buy to replace the tv the instant that third bulb went!
@viqas: This is correct. Small claims isn't like traffic court. You still have to present a preponderance of evidence to win your case. (Thanks, Judge Judy!)
I'm confused... he didn't want to wait 1-2 weeks for a service technician, so instead he kept paying $275 to have bulbs shipped to him, that probably took almost a week to arrive?
Obviously Best Buy needs to step up and replace the faulty TV, but I can't help but wonder why on earth the OP would pay $1650 for replacement bulbs out of his own pocket.
If anyone, he should have at least called their service department to report the problem each time so they'd have a record.
Would opening the back of the TV to install it himself somehow void the warranty?
hint: $275 * 7 = $1925 (aka, time for a new TV)
There are about 800 questions left unanswered in this story that don't allow any one individual to make a decision on who is in the wrong here. I like to lean to the consumer, but there is too much info left out.
I have had extended warranties on all of my large TVs. I've never had a problem getting my TV fixed and usually within a couple days. However, none of those are through Best Buy.
@viqas: @CountryJustice: Of course it depends upon the jurisdiction, but generally if you file a civil complaint and the other side fails to respond, you can get judgment without proving fault. Its called default judgment. The only necessary proof is that the other side was properly served with the complaint and that they failed to respond within the alloted time (generally 20 days from service).
To the OP, why did you wait for MORE than 3 bulbs to start this process? I would have been very annoyed and would have immediately asked for an exchange!
I love my Samsung DLP! Never a bulb replacement in 1 and half years. Samsung FTW!
They've only fixed it once. Kinda see their point.
Not trying to "Blame the Customer" but he ordered products from a third party, and Best Buy wasn't involved. How are they supposed to know the TV was repaired 4 times?
7 $275 bulbs in 3 years?!?!?
Dude...get a new DLP with an LED bulb - it's a bit pricier than typical DLPs...but about 10x the life.
The third part is contracted BY Best Buy for parts replacements.
The store is empowered, but just doesn't want to do anything.
Umar, try calling their Customer Relations dept. It may not help but talking to the store doesn't seem to be getting you very far.
Wow! To get Best Buy to replace six bulbs is unbelievable! I would question the way the TV is powered. One of the reasons bulbs die before their time is because the bulb needs to be cooled properly after being used. If it is not cooled properly it will become brittle making it's lifespan much shorter over time.
I also agree that DLP sets should use a UPS to insure proper cooling even if the power goes out.
If the set is plugged into a switched wall outlet or a cable box and the switch or box is turned off after viewing the set would not be able to cool the bulb properly and would drastically reduce the lifespan of the bulb.
Making sure that the TV is plugged into a continuous power source is essential for the bulb to provide the viewing time expected.
2005 RCA DLP + UPS + good surge protector = no bulb changes. (I know I just jinxed it.)
I got the extended warranty from Best Buy, even though I usually don't do that sort of thing. After about six months, I noticed the picture was warping slightly in one corner. After another month, it got progressively worse. I made a warranty call, a tech was out within a week, replaced the entire light engine, and everything has been perfect since.
@CharlieInSeattle: Yeah, I was going to say my boyfriend had an issue with his Toshiba after a bad storm. He got it fixed, I know they had to replace the bulb and something else, and the service tech recommended he put it on an UPS with a power conditioner so that next time, if the there is a surge or a power outage he can shut the TV down the way it is supposed to be shut down.
But, yeah, Best Buy should replace this TV. Something is happening to make the bulbs burn out much faster than they should.
rear projection tvs are one of the few items that Consumer Reports suggests its prudent to get an extended warranty.
@GMFish: I am pretty happy with my Samsung LED DLP. Had mine for about a year and a half now, not even the slightest problem. Not having to ever replace a bulb was a huge selling point (not sure of the exact life span, but fairly certain it's longer than most of the TV's other components, 10+years?).
I know the new ones are even better, with superior brightness/contrast ratio and even longer LED life.
Moral of the story? Nobody should buy a DLP or LCD RP set, period.
The only ones that are somewhat tolerable are the newer LED backlit sets, as they don't have all the heat and longevity issues.. but I'd still be embarrassed to have one of those plastic boxes sitting in front of me--call me crazy, but I'm sold on build quality. That extra few inches for the money is not worth it.
The extended warranty is backed by an insurance company. If Best Buy buys back the TV, they just file a claim with the insurance company and get their money back. They wouldn't be out anything (except labor processing the return) so I don't see why they won't just replace it.
@barco: I've been extremely happy with my Sony 55A3000 SXRD. Bulbs blowing on an RP set at the pace that the submitter describes is simply not normal. The picture on DLPs/SXRDs is much, much better than you can get on a similarly-priced LCD, and you can generally get a much larger set, too. Build quality is also excellent (with the exception of Samsung's DLPs, which often have geometry issues from bowing).
When you do get an extended warranty on that RPTV, though, make damn sure that it covers consumables (eg, bulbs). I've been reading that many such warranties do not, and people get screwed when they try to actually make a claim.
My brother went through a similar situation. First bulb blew after 10 months, the second six moths later. He had the extended warranty, and after the second bulb blew out, instead of just shipping him a bulb, they sent a technician who replaced what he called the 'light engine', which appeard to be an electronic controller attached to a bulb socket. He has not had the bulb blow in the 2+ years since.
@mpotter: @Elijah86: I bought a second hand 61" Samsung DLP over two years ago and have never had to replace a bulb. So, considering that my boyfriend falls asleep with the tv on at least once a week, by my calculations we've easily watched 2500 hrs of tv on a single bulb. Definitely Samsung DLPs FTW.
For the first time since I started posting here, I am going to blame the OP.
Sorry.
All projection TVs/monitors have a set of quirks that you need to know about before you buy.
1) Bulbs are damned expensive.
2) If you touch the bulb surface with your fingers, it will burn out.
3) If you turn the thing on while the bulb is still warm, it has a very high chance of having the bulb burn out.
4) if you don't have the thing on a UPS, power spikes will eventually cause the bulb to burn out.
I lost exactly one bulb on my first projector, did the research, and have owner two projectors, used them both for well over 1000 hours, and have yet to blow another bulb.
@barco: Because everyone can afford a 56"-65" LCD or Plasma? The DLP offers bigger size for lower cost. Yes, no one should buy a DLP that uses a LAMP. But the LED (I've had my Samsung DLP/LED 2 yrs now and NO problems) models don't have noisey fans, colorwheels, nor the frequent lamp replacement, heat or power draw.
What (DLP uneducated) folks don't realize is that at DLP is NOT like a CRT that you can turn on/off instantly. Lamps need to warm up, oil/surface contamination will lead to failure, and they are at least $300 a pop (no pun).
Best Buy should just replace the TV with an LED version. Betcha its cheaper.
I used to always be against warranties, until I started working on a tech bench and seeing how many laptops need to be sent off to service.
How do the credit card warranties work? Are they as evil as some retailers? How do they make any money off of it?
@mpotter: Best Buy's lemon policy does not apply to bulbs on DLP, since they are considered a consumable item, therefore after the 3rd one blew, they would not have replaced it (it's also on the 4th time that something breaks that the lemon policy kicks in). Also, if you had read their policy, they only are suppose to replace ONE bulb (originally they were not even going to cover ANY extra bulbs).
From their website:
No Lemon Policy
If your product requires 4 qualifying repairs, we will provide a replacement of comparable performance.
Bulb Replacement
We provide a one time bulb replacement on qualifying products:
* DLP Projection TVs
Now the problem is that Best Buy determines what a qualifying repair, and I can guarantee you that bulb replacement is not considered as one. Also, do not equate service with a repair. In general, not all services are repairs.
Now that their policy is aside, what the OP really should have done was to have Best Buy check the rest of the DLP set. What was done here was not the case, the OP just kept on plugging in new bulbs, instead of insisting that they check to make sure that it was not something else that was causing the problem. Yeah, waiting 1-2+ weeks with out a TV can be a pain (I know, my color wheel went out and had to wait 3 weeks, but you know, you do other things, take more walks, have longer dinner with actual conversation, etc...) but its the only way to ensure that they cannot blame you for anything.
As it stands, I would insist that they come out again and to check other things that may be causing the bulbs to be going out (and if the OP does not have a surge protector, invest in one).
DLPs give you the most screen size for the buck (esp in bigger sizes). I bought mine last year and I've been completely happy with it, nothing's gone wrong with it etc...
I can totally sympathize with the OP, previously I had a Toshiba projection TV that I bought from Best Buy (complete with extended warranty) and that experience completely soured me to them. The TV had issues almost from day 1 and BB did everything it could to not live up to it's extended warranty. In the end I actually ended up escalating it through Toshiba who replaced the TV w/o going through BB. It's been several years now since I dealt with that, but I've avoided buying any more TVs from them (oddly, I've had much better luck buying from Circuit City).
It's really hard to know what to do with some of the big box retailers nowadays. A couple of years back, I bought a stereo for my truck only to discover that the BB sales monkey sold me one that wouldn't fit (and I explicitly asked him to make sure it would). When I went to return it the customer service clerk tried to insist that I needed to pay the 15% restocking fee on the radio because I'd tried to install it. it took some arguing and escalating it to the store manager, but I finally got ALL my money back.
At this rate, you pretty much need to research your purchases extensively (my DLP TV was rated very highly across the board and fared better than comparable sized LCDs and Plasmas) and then go buy exactly what you know you need because places like BB seem determined to do everything they can to make any problems (e.g. incorrect recommendations), your fault/problem. It's actually kind of sad that nowadays you can often get better customer service from online retailers than you can from brick and mortar stores.
Where to start!!!!!! Disclaimer first. I am a TV repairman. I do not play one on TV.
1) The lamp is isolated from line voltage through the power supply and a ballast. I have not seen any lamps damaged by spikes/brownouts.
2) A UPS is a waste of money unless you are protecting the whole house.
3) Lamp life for early generation DLP's was around 2000 hours. That is roughly 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for a year. Current gen lamps should last approx 5000 to 10000 hours.
4) I do factory and extended warrantys. I much prefer to use the factory warranty. The extended warrantys are basically insurance plans. The extended warranty companies are seperate from the stores and have service centers (people like me) to do the repair work.
Flame on people......flame on
That's a great idea. Instruct your customers to void their warranties.
If these TVs are so sensitive to surges and power loss, why don't they design them with built-in power conditioners or even small battery backups?
I stayed away from DLPs because of the rainbow effect that affects all DLP TVs save the LED DLPs. Sounds like that was a good move.
Has he read the service terms and conditions?
@WoodsWrecker:
Thank you, WoodsW, is very good to know this.
Now, Umar Do you have any way to proof that their technician told you to change the bulbs yourself? This will be really helpful, because it will go to prove that the store "refussed to do any more service calls for you."
One other thing I would do, call Toshiba legal department and let them know the horrible experience you have had with their TV and Best Buys. And also let them know that because of their refusal to honor their contract on a TOSHIBA item, you'll be taking them to court and you don't have any other option that take them to court too because the item is a TOSHIBA.
As ready, able and prepared as corporate lawyers are, they want not to "waste" their time in this type of issues. So you'll probably end up with a new TV.
Oh, one more thing Umar. When and if you call Toshiba, let them know that when you told them you'll make this public, they told you they didn't care! Toshiba won't accept their "reputation been soiled" just because of Best Buy's policies.
Believe me, I had a Toshiba laptop that gave me a world of migranes! and the week after the warranty expired, so did that piece of crap. I did exactly what I have told you, and A couple of days later I got a brand new laptop, expensier than the one I had. Of course I got me a new Compaq Pressario laptop, and gave the Toshiba one to someone. I don't want any more deals with Toshiba.!!!
When will people learn that you do NOT buy anything from Best Buy -- especially with a BB warranty.
His fault -- he voided his own warranty. Any idiot knows that if you do something yourself regardless of what the company tells you, ONLY the business can repair it to NOT void your warranty.
He got what he deserved.
With DLP type rear projection TVs the extended warranty is a wonderful purchase. I have more than made up my "protection plan" purchase price. On any other purchase I have flatly refused. At first they just sent me the bulb overnight and I replaced it. Now they have figured out how much they are paying out and have made it a mandatory service call. Then they order it. Normal tv viewing can expect about 1.5 years between bulbs. Falling asleep and leaving it on all night cuts into that time considerably.