Nancy Kates’s large underwire bra set off the metal detector in the Oakland, California airport. A TSA agent pulled her aside and patted her down, which set off Kates’ personal privacy alarm. “I said, ‘You can’t do that.’ She said, ‘We have to pat you down.’ I said, ‘You can’t treat me as a criminal for wearing a bra.’” Kates was given the option to “submit to a pat-down in a private room” or not fly. Instead, she took off her bra and passed through security just fine. Hooray for personal freedom!
Try to read the first sentence below and not turn “wanded” into a euphemism, we dare ya.
Kates said that although she flies about once a month, the only other time her bra has set off alarms in an airport was while she was being “wanded” in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. When she explained to the security agent that the wand was picking up the metal in her bra, she said, that was the end of the matter and she was allowed to go on her way.
The TSA says they have to check for bombs:
TSA spokesman Nico Melendez said Monday that he wasn’t familiar with the incident. But he said in all circumstances, “we have to resolve an alarm.”
That’s the case for bras, artificial hips or anything with metal that sets off an alarm, he said. “Unfortunately, we can’t take a passenger’s word for it.”
If you’re a large-breasted woman, when you reach the TSA checkpoint you might want to yank your bra off and toss it in a tray. Not because TSA is demanding it, but because we’d just love to see that start happening a lot.
“Delayed by her bra, air passenger is indignant” [SFGate] (Thanks to Scott!)
(Photo: Getty)
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Im surprise the airlines dont step in and try and fix the TSA debacle. I know so many people who literally cut their flying because the TSA is such a pain in the ass.
@Michael Belisle: Hmmm… I guess you don’t wear many bras…
You see most women I know buy multiple bras of similar composition. IE: They know what is most comfortable, fits best, and provides the best support so they purchase multiples of these items. I ONLY own metal under wire bras because that is what the girls demand. Anything else is uncomfortable, ineffective, and prohibits my ability to move well. So comparing my bras to your studded pants (I assume you own more than one type of pants) is not equivalent.
I don’t believe that I should have to go make a special trip to purchase a bra that doesn’t support me, makes me uncomfortable, and is unflattering just so TSA is happy. It would be the same as TSA telling all those boxer wearers out there that they need to suit up in banana hammocks to pass through security.
I am not against composite bras, but I can’t ever remember seeing the metal content of a bra listed on the label so it would be difficult to discern which was which without dismantling the garment.
wait do you think you could warp your dong in tinfoil just to set off the alarm and piss off TSA and not get busted? I mean, you could juet pretend to be mentally ill with a friend and a doctors note. I just had that idea. For the first time, I actually understand the purpose of Jackass.
Sorry OT, wont happen again. I just had to share.
First thing, the lady voluntarily took the damn thing off.
Okay geniuses, how do you propose they go about checking for an alarm in that area if they can’t pat it down?
Pray for the Lord to manifest Himself their at the airport and tell them it’s nothing?
TSA: Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. You can satisfy some people some of the time, but you can’t satisfy ANY passengers ANY time…
I swear 99.5% of people turn their brains off when they talk about the TSA…
When I saw this story on Consumerist, I thought “BFD! How is this a violation of any of her rights?”
What if she had had a gun in her bra & got waved through just cause she’s a woman, and then hijacked the plane or took a prisoner? Then TSA would be roasting for NOT patting her down.
Get over it, people. Blame the terrorists that killed thousands of people on 9-11 when you think your “rights” are being violated at airports. I wouldn’t care even if every passenger had to strip completely naked before boarding if it meant my safety would be ensured. You don’t like the tight security? DRIVE. Take a train. Book passage on a ship.
Yeesh.
@ochobit: I think we’ve pretty much established that
a. detectors set to the CORRECT level of sensitivity do not sound an alarm for under wires.
b. in the event that an under wire does trigger an alarm despite the correct settings the TSA must offer PRIVATE screening.
c. a POLITE warning that you are about to be manhandled and a bit of understanding/patience with the people who are being assaulted by strangers would go a long way to making it a less humiliating experience.
Surprisingly I’ve yet to experience ANY of these conditions when flying wearing a bra. The alarm ALWAYS goes off, Private screening is never offered, TSA staff are rude, inconsiderate, and ROUGH with my person.
@JamieSueAustin: I don’t really like putting all my liquids in 100 ml containers, sizing my suitcase to fit in the overhead bin, or wearing shoes that are easy to remove. Granted, all of these have nothing to do with my anatomy, but they’re the only examples that affect me today. If someday I end up with a metal hip that sets off the detector, develop a disability, or progress into the two-seat-needing range, I’m sure I’ll find the extra burdens annoying too. But I’d understand at that point that I’m an exception, not the rule. Systems are designed to work for 90% of the people 90% of the time. It’s not economical to do it any other way. (Of course, in the case of the TSA, it sucks for 90% of the people 90% of the time. They should work on that.)
They’re not saying you can’t fly unless you make adjustments to your wardrobe. You have the option to do whatever you want to. You could seek a screening-friendly bra or you can take the risk that your metal-containing bra will set off the detector. If that happens, you might be subjected to additional screening, like any one else who sets off the detector for any reason. Maybe they’ll take you at your word when you say “it’s my bra”, maybe they won’t. Maybe they have a maybe they have a millimeter-wave scanner and can see all that’s going on underneath everyone’s clothes.
But what do I know? I’m just some guy on the internet who went to [biggerbras.com] , found a 56K soft cup bra, and decided I am now qualified to unleash my advice on the world.
@kabuk1: Lame troll is lame.
Talk to us when TSA starts grabbing penises and pulling just to make sure that they’re real and nothing is shoved up into them. We’re not asking that women get a free pass, just that the security proceedures were more appropriate.
If men were included in this, you would be as ticked off as the rest of us.
@Michael Belisle:
Ignoring the rest of your comment, you have no idea how comfortable that is or how well it fits the majority of the people who need it. PLUS women don’t even get to try it on before buying it. It’s also 50 dollars and not everyone has the money to throw around just so they don’t get embarrassed at TSA.
I flew for the first time since 9/11 a few weeks ago (and it was actually the first time within the United States, actually, now that I think of it) and I thought it was sadly hilarious that all these strangers had to undress slightly (i.e. shoes, belts, etc.) in front of each other and re-dress before heading off to their departure gates. *sigh*
@JamieSueAustin: Surprisingly I’ve yet to experience ANY of these conditions when flying wearing a bra. The alarm ALWAYS goes off, Private screening is never offered, TSA staff are rude, inconsiderate, and ROUGH with my person.
That’s unacceptable and you should raise hell. I already posted this link, but the ACLU would like to hear your story.
Just to be clear, I’m not defending the TSA here. Have you requested private screening, even if it wasn’t offered? (They only say “You may request that your search be conducted in private,” not that they must offer it.)
@The_IT_Crone:
Thank you!
@JamieSueAustin:
a) Define CORRECT level of sensitivity? How many times have you calibrated a MAG?
b) I have never seen a single officer NOT offer a PRIVATE screening, people can and have been sued for that… I know in the fantasy world of the blogosphere the TSA is untouchable, then again maybe because it’s MIA, I’ve heard MIA is better than most small airports…
c) There is ALWAYS a warning before doing that search, now DEFINE polite, maybe what you expect is absurd… remember TSOs are officers not customer service reps, it’s always good to show customer service when reasonable, but it’s rule numero uno to err on the side of security.
Then again this is the internet, so I can just CLAIM that the TSA shot me in the leg and kidnapped my children and 80% of the internet would believe it.
@The_IT_Crone: Talk to us when TSA starts grabbing penises and pulling just to make sure that they’re real and nothing is shoved up into them.
TSA does do that within the amount that it’s reasonable to determine that it’s a penis and not a gun. Men have complained too.
Screening sucks for everyone. Unfortunately, the level of suckiness is not evenly distributed.
I have a formal challenge for all complainers:
How would you resolve the alarm, other than just ignoring it and pray it’ll be okay?
I mean, bags were scanned before 9/11, the screeners just said: “nah, box cutters SHOULD be fine, I mean, they are clearly for cutting boxes…”
Bloody hell some people are stupid.
@ochobit: Speaking of weapons, Busty Heart could knock a person out with her assets:
With that, I’m out (and probably well on my way to hell).
@Parapraxis:
Breastmilk is always allowed, in any amount, even if the baby is not present.
@ochobit: So, how long have you (or a family member or a friend) worked for the TSA?
@ochobit: So now after 9/11 I’m just going to have to deal with sore breasts when I fly because “baggage handlers” now has a new meaning? (But are still as rough as they are with luggage).
I don’t know how many people here are trolls and which are serious, but it really doesn’t sound like you’re serious. I don’t have a problem with being searched if I set off the metal detector. I would have been perfectly happy to have pulled up my shirt to show my bra. I would have been perfectly happy- even amused- to go behind a screen and flash the lady. I did NOT like being pawed with no warning in front of at least 100 people. I was the only one it was happening to at the time, and the many people in line had nothing else to look at. I had NOT been given any other options. It was “do this or else.” I was worried that if I spoke up I’d get in trouble and miss my flight.
It was a business trip, and if my coworkers had flown with me (as had been the plan) I’d have been mortified.
@Tmoney02: It’s like having teeth so sensitive to cold, you can’t notice how sweet the ice cream is.
@fjordtjie: It shouldn’t come down to wearing a certain kind of bra to take a flight anyway.
Why shouldn’t it? We’re not talking about taking a flight at all (because then you’d be right), we’re talking about taking a flight efficiently…getting through security with the minimum of hassle and maximum of speed. It takes a certain kind of shoe (slip-on please!), a certain kind of packing (leave your toothpaste at home), why not a certain kind of bra? No one said this passenger couldn’t get on her flight, they said she couldn’t get on her flight without extra screening.
Honestly, as a large-breasted woman myself, there are things you know about your own body and plan accordingly for. The guy with special orthopedic shoes knows to add time to his trip, if he can’t wear the slip-ons. I know to either don a sports bra or expect the pat down. It was a surprise the first time I flew, now it’s just part of the procedure (although, granted, it’s hit or miss depending on the airport.)
Next up to be put to the test by the ever so vigilant TSA is the everyday tooth filling.
Quick! Now’s the right time to get into dentistry.
Yeah, I always try to remember to wear an soft bra to the airport but sometimes I forget. Then I generally get felt up in front of the security line with no warning. But someone else commented about your copper IUD setting it off??? I’m screwed!
@The_IT_Crone: The problem is, most people are talking about general procedure, you’re talking about a specific event. The event you’re talking about (being patted down in front of an audience) doesn’t follow specific procedure. That’s something you need to take up with the TSA and/or a lawyer. However, it doesn’t make the overall (correctly followed) policy WRONG.
If, for whatever reason, you can’t utilize reasonable accommodations (ie: the sports bra) to avoid a pat-down, then (a) take a train, or (b) expect the pat-down. You have the right to expect the pat-down in a private area. However, I have the right to know that you’ve boarded my plane after being fully screened, and not harboring any weapons.
Honestly, no one’s suggesting you should be groped in front of 100 passengers. If a TSA agent went off-script, deal with that agent or that airport. Now, after 9/11, you do have to deal with sore breasts, just like the rest of us have to deal with no bottles of water, taking off our shoes, and people going through our bags. You’re not being singled out for inconvenience since 9/11.
Not to inject a wrench in this completely unproductive discussion, but I wonder if enterprising terrorists could inject the raw ingredients for their bombs into saline style implants. Then all boobs would be suspect, men’s too! (see pectoral implants)
Or better (maybe worse?) yet, you could easily fill a few condoms and shove them somewhere unscreened, get a few folks together on a plane and drop out your mule packages.
I guess the only way to make planes safe is to not allow anyone to fly. Just like the only way to make roads safe is to not allow and cars. Since obviously neither of those is going to happen, I suppose the real discussion should be around what is an acceptable level of risk for the convenience. I imagine that answer is different for everyone though.
The TSA operational procedures are a joke. There is little to no consistency in procedure from one airport to another – for those of us who fly and travel extensively for business it can be pretty aggravating. What is more upsetting is hearing how someone’s personal rights can be violated – in the case of the woman subject of the OP, and in the case of the young women who have been allegedly groped by TSA workers. (I say workers, not agents or officers).
I recently traveled through 3 major airports and 2 security checkpoints after a trade show – forgetting to remove a utility knife from my pocket (think folding pocketknife). This was clipped to the pocket, with a metal clip. I went through security in Reno, removing my shoes, belt, but forgetting the knife. No alarms. Some poor woman was being hassled in the booth next to where I was “screened” – the best I could determine was that she was singled out because she had a scarf on her head and darker skin. Landed in LAX, went to another terminal, back through security, again, no alarms. It was when I arrived in MSP that I realized that I had the knife in my pocket – too used to carrying it, I suppose. The whole system is screwed up, and if we are going to screen airline passengers, we need trained professionals to do so, not some people who took a couple classes.
This thread is hilariously ridiculous.
@sir_eccles: My grandfather has one for his pacemaker.
@mmmsoap: The OP wasn’t talking about a specific event? I guess I read that WAY wrong…
@BigPapaCherry: Finally, someone with the male’s equivalent. Men have belts, women have bras, we all can get the pat down if we don’t take them off.
That is not remotely equivalent. If men’s belts set the detector off, they don’t have to drop their pants and have their balls fondled by some big man who’s grinning and sniggering.
You guys don’t get that that’s the problem. We’ve had accounts on this thread of women being groped by male TSA guards. They are backed into a corner with no options, have their options taken away from them, and are forced to submit to the amusement of someone else. Several women have said that those guards were not professional. In the legal code, that’s sexual assault. It’s a crime, and it’s being legitimized by an organization that has arbitrary and total control over people who enter an airport with the intent to fly.
And then you guys on the thread, and the OP, add to this humiliation by telling the women here to “calm down,” to stop being hysterical, to stop inconveniencing you with our opinions and feelings. Does it ever help and injustice to claim it doesn’t exist? Do the people who deny an injustice ever turn out to be right in the long run?
@Sarge1985:
If you look at the comments section in the linked article (though not too much in depth, because it’s loaded with the usual “evil fascist government” and Ben-Franklin-those-who-trade-security-for-freedom-deserve-neither-quotes that accompanies shenanigans like this), someone mentions that Israel’s biggest airport security victory came from when they found an Irish lady that had a bomb in her suitcase put in there without her knowledge by her fiancee who had ties to Syria.
If all terrorists were from the Middle East, it would make much more sense to only screen people who came from that part of the world. Since we have people like the Unabomber or Timothy McVeigh among us, and they pose as much of a threat as the Islamic extremists, then everyone should be checked.
In my view, the above is not a “sensibilities” issue along the lines of political correctness, but one grounded in realism. Understandably, though, I guess that there are some who don’t want to screen people because someone might get offended, but I guess that’s their problem.
Anywho, this story seems a little extreme. TSA should use common sense (which really isn’t that common anymore) in cases like these, but then again, this is a government operation we are talking about here.
Cheers!
@SinisterMatt: You may have misinterpreted my comments. Bags are screened. The problem is that we have TSA goons squads out there fondleing women and some men and not paying attention to the real issue. Terrorists are typically young adults between the ages of 17 and 40 and mostly male. This is fact. They fit a profile and that is what should be looked at/for.
“…submit to a pat-down in a private room”
Chance would be a fine thing.
Ms Bayliss wore a new pair of slacks from GAP going out through Logan. The RFID thingy sewn into an inside seam triggered the metal detector and the (female, at least) TSA operative required her to remove her outer garment IN FULL PUBLIC VIEW to the extent that she could identify the offending device.
In other words, Ms Bayliss was standing there in her panties.
My complaints were first countered with claims that “she had approved the procedure” and then with threats of detention.
@BytheSea:
Now you’re just making stuff up… while cross-sex patdowns are normal in many countries they don’t happen in the US.
That person would be fired and arrested faster than it takes to yell “bag check!”.
@Michael Belisle: “Maybe I’m just an optimistic engineer, but we have the technology to make metal-free wires. Carbon fiber is a great alternative, for example. It’s far past time for composite materials to infiltrate the brassiere market.”
First of all, carbon fiber is expensive, no? Using that kind of material might work well, but very few could afford it. I give you kudos for your concern on the subject, but let’s face it: if men had breasts, bras would already be engineered better, and they’d be cheaper. Just like there’d be affordable and effective medication for morning sickness if men had to experience it. But instead, women have to pay outragous prices for good quality underclothes, and go through several months of basically feeling like they’re having the worst hangover 24/7 whenever they want to reproduce, and there’s nothing they can do about it. (I envy those women who don’t experience morning sickness.) Just using that as an example.
And no, I’m not a feminist. But I do think men tend to take for granted the gender-specific things women put up with. I don’t think that men are “out to get” women, or purposely turn a blind eye, they’re just happily ignorant. Just like I could never understand how it feels to be kicked in the balls.
And I agree with JamieSueAustin; women should not have to go out and buy a special bra just to get through 5 minutes of their life with the TSA. I don’t think that’s comparable to buying smaller containers for liquids, or shoes that slip on and off. And also, as she pointed out, every woman knows what works best for her, so chances are, that one bra she needs to get through the metal detector is not a comfortable one. That means either changing into and out of said bra before and after, or wearing it all the way to their destination. You have no idea what it feels like, especially for a large-breasted woman, to wear an ill-fitting bra. Without proper support it can cause serious back and neck pain, not to mention the straps digging into the shoulders, among other issues.
But if you can come up with a solution for all of these issues, by all means, go right ahead. I’ll support it 100%.
@allthatsevil:
Believing in equal rights for men and women = feminist.
@bria: Actually (sorry to go off topic) according to Merriam-Webster, feminism is defined as: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes. Not exactly the same thing as equal rights.
I’m all for equal rights, but I do believe there are some things men are better suited for than women. And vice versa. That’s why I’m not a feminist.
@allthatsevil:
Feminists disagree with that definition.
@bria: Googling define:feminism suggests that the world does not agree on what it means to be a feminist. The Encyclopedia of Feminist Theories, meanwhile, doesn’t explicitly mention equal rights in the entry on feminism, but does conclude “Feminism, both theory and political action, is plural, mixed, and moving. … No one need feel that she has to identify with one feminism to the exclusion of all others.”
So I don’t see how you can say “feminists disagree with that definition” as if they all agree that “feminism ⇒ equal rights”. Are you telling me that a feminist by the dictionary definition is not a feminist at all, and your brand is better than all others?
@ochobit: No, they do happen and it can be sexual assault. The TSA says that in exceptional circumstances, cross gender pat downs can happen.
But where ByTheSea goes off base is with her depiction of “you guys”, because I’m not sure who she’s responding to here. Mostly everyone hates the TSA and nobody has defended the TSA in response to stories like those told by The_IT_Crone or jakesprincess. Those situations are unacceptable, but they’re not a policy flaw because they’re already a violation of policy, as expalained quite nicely by mmmsoap. And I had my crotch manhandled by the TSA, but it seemed like a normal pat down so I didn’t think anything of it.
In cases of sexual assault, lawyers should be contacted, timely complaints filed, and people fired and/or jailed. Unfortunately, that doesn’t always happen. And that is a problem with no easy solution.
@allthatsevil: But if you can come up with a solution for all of these issues, by all means, go right ahead. I’ll support it 100%.
In my understanding of the history of the bra, I think men are already responsible for a lot of its engineering. It’s probably part of the reason why they suck so much. So I don’t think the bra business needs another man. I can imagine, but I can’t understand. I’ll stick to airplanes.
I do think men tend to take for granted the gender-specific things women put up with. I don’t think that men are “out to get” women, or purposely turn a blind eye, they’re just happily ignorant. Just like I could never understand how it feels to be kicked in the balls.
I’ll try not to go too far off topic, but my favorite feminist quote comes from Betty Friedan in 1974: “Men weren’t really the enemy—they were fellow victims suffering from an outmoded masculine mystique that made them feel unnecessarily inadequate when there were no bears to kill.”
We have our own bullshit gender-specific things that we put up with. We turn a blind eye because “The Cosmo Girl” is not our creation. It’s written by women. Men today don’t keep women “in line” because they do that on our own and, besides, we’re too busy keeping the weak men in line.
@teh: Then when they touch you somewhere you can say different things like “Woahfondle” and “Wheres the doll? Can you demonstrate this on him?
@sir_eccle Phoenix isn’t a nowhere airport.
I’d hate to be my cousin when he goes through airport security. He has metal plates in his head after a couple of thugs beat his head and face in with a 2 x 4.
In airport security terms, that would translate to “He has bombs in his head after a couple of bombs bombed his bomb and bomb in with a 2 x Bomb.”
Oh, and this completely explains why I’ve been “wanded” myself.
We need to get over ourselves, people. I’d rather be inconvenienced than blown up in the sky.
I’d rather take my bra off than let someone fondle me.
Why doesn’t someone come up with a non-wire underwire? They can’t create a plastic hard enough to replace the metal?
Some of the TSA posts make me wonder why someone hasn’t gone nuts on a plane just on principle.
I mean, I guess I can understand the airport’s security measures. They can’t take your word for it. If you know that you have some clothing or whatever that may set off the alarm, then just don’t wear it that day. Problem solved!
pics or it didn’t happen?
Screw some of these TSA agents. How about screw the TSA altogether. 9/11 security, fear, blah, blah, blah. Like anything remotely close to 9/11 would happen again?? And since it hasn’t it MUST be because of our SAVIOR TSA agents. M/F please!! I’ve had enough. If I was with that lady, I’d of punched that TSA cocksucker right smack dab in the middle of his face. Sure, I’d be in jail now, but the attention and support it would have garnered will have been worth it. Enough with the idiots, seriously. How many stupid branches of the Federal Government do WE NEED? How embarrassing to be an American these days. I know what you’re thinking…No, I don’t fly, thank God. I hope I never have to either. Obviously, you wouldn’t want ME on YOUR plane. I no longer tolerate idiots and call them out at every opportunity.
I know that with all of these comments that probably nobody will see this but…
What we all need to do is wear medieval suits of armor to airports. Just to waste all the time we can. Hell even go through the line a few times on days you don’t even have to fly. That would be so funny. “Um, sir, please remove your breast plate.”
this system is intrusive and ultimately ineffective. getting lulled into a false sense of security due to these extreme measures belies the fact that one corruptible employee can practically walk a remote triggered device onto an airplane. as if even these TSA freaks can’t be tempted! As if!!
My sister flew out of Cleveland with no less than 5 Bic lighters in her carry on (by accident). On the return trip from Phoenix they found all of them. Although it took three passes through the x-ray machine to get ‘em all. Can you say radioactive luggage?
Cleveland = no security.
That’d be why I always wear sports bras when I travel. The underwire in my bra set off the stupid metal detector the very first time I ever flew, when I was 15. Ever since, sports bras are my very good friend when I fly. LOL!
I agree with Vivalefat. I think Chris’s post was a little sexist, and I think it should have been edited to remove that comment when it became clear there was an issue with it. There is nothing wrong with telling people that she was offended by the post. Instead of telling someone they shouldn’t be offended, ragging on them for over 100 comments about it, and then possibly banning them (I didn’t read to the end of the comments), why not amend the post and take the offensive comment out?
Chris, would that not be the sensitive thing to do? Is that last statement so essential to your story that removing it would also remove an essential piece of the story’s puzzle? I think not. Stop being insensitive.
Just like any other harrassment, if someone tells you you have offended them, you have. Either appologize for it, or man up and let them know that you don’t care for their opinion or feelings.
I really hope Roz doesn’t ban vivalefat. That would be a shame.
@RStewie: For the last time, please drop the vivelafat issue or take it to email.
Vivelafat has not been banned.
Personally having audited the TSA…..I can honestly tell you they make retarded people look like Nobel Prize winners. Their hiring criteria is that they must receive their GED by the time they hit 30 and pass a drug test. That’s it.
@Shark1998:
Seems weird that the majority of people in the TSA have served in the armed forces and and a lot of us are currently studying in college.
Honestly, I am flabbergasted how dumb passengers are who are incapable of understanding the simplest of commands.