TSA, can you at least train your agents to do their jobs properly? We’d appreciate it even more if you’d discipline (read: fire) those who go all stupidly power-mad and think they have to “win” every encounter, even when it means making up new rules on the spot. Here’s a story of a soldier who lost a day of leave because one of your agents caused so much trouble. In the end, the soldier says he’s happy with the outcome—”Using standard Consumerist customer service doctrine (polite, patient, proper channels and then EECB), I won”—but we’re still floored by how difficult you made his trip home. Oh, and NWA, you were no help either.
First, I am active duty military and I only get so many days of leave; when extenuating circumstances happen to delay travel – I still get charged for the leave.
So there I was on Monday, 11 Aug in the Detroit Metro Airport which happens to be NWAs worldwide hub. I am there a little more than an hour and a half prior to my flight. I was scheduled to leave around 130p on a Monday.
When I checked in at the E-ticket console a message flashed stating that the flight was overbooked and that I was being offered a voucher. I arrived with the intention of checking my only bag because I needed to check a firearm – something that I have done several times. Current TSA policy on firearms is that they need to be in a hard-sided case and locked (my case was a standard manufacturer’s case that is completely hard-sided and has been through airlines checks numerous times).
I usually have a lock, but TSA always ends up taking it off and telling me I don’t need it. Of course this time I didn’t take a lock. The NWA agent told me, after I informed her of my firearm, that TSA wouldn’t check it because it didn’t have a lock, I told her I would talk to them and see what they would say.
The TSA agent told me that she wouldn’t take it without a lock. Trying to minimize time-damage, I asked her if a zip tie would do – logicizing (that absolutely has to be a word) that since law enforcement and military use zip ties in lieu of steel handcuffs to detain people, a zip tie should work instead of a mini lock that I could bend with my bare hands.
She said, mockingly, that I could not use a zip tie. I asked, “what constitutes a lock?” She replied, “A lock.” I politely thanked her for clearing that up for me. The NWA agent, who was trying to be friendly and helpful at a very busy point in the day, actually left the desk to go look for a padlock that they could sell me.
Okay, fair enough, rules is rules—get your OP-blaming out of the way now, because this is where it gets very silly.
While [the NWA agent] was gone, the TSA agent told me that she “can’t let this through, even if it has a lock on it it’s still accessible”.
I was confused and said that I did not understand what she meant. She again stated that the case was accessible even if it had a lock. I explained that I did not know what she meant but that TSA’s policy and website state the only two requirements (ammo notwithstanding) are a hard-sided case and a lock. She said, “Even if this has a lock on it, I’m not letting it through.”
I pulled out my 3g iPhone, pulled up TSA’s website and found the firearm policy and showed it to her. She said, “TSA sometimes gives us different policies than they give you.”
I responded, “Are you kidding me? I don’t think when it comes to firearms TSA is going to surprise passengers with some magical policy to prevent them from checking firearms they’re allowed to check.” She responded with, “I’m not letting it through.”
I asked, “Who do I talk to about getting this through?; she replied, “A supervisor.” I asked if I could please speak with a supervisor and she said, no kidding, “I am a supervisor.” Does anyone really believe that a supervisor of any kind is actually going to be on shift at the ticketing counter inspecting baggage and tossing it onto the belt?
I asked to speak to a supervisor, [and was told] iit would be 30 minutes before he arrived. Foreseeing a possible “late arrival” and subsequent loss of seat, I asked the same NWA agent if the vouchers were still being offered, she said yes and I asked if I could sell my seat back for one and she said, “No, you have to be at the gate.”
This I know to be untrue for two reasons: I’ve done it before and it’s a ticketing counter and I was asking for help with ticketing. I didn’t contest; I waited a few minutes and then went back to her and asked if I could call the gate from the counter and try to do it over the phone; she said “No, you have to be at the gate.”
Again, I know this to be untrue because I had just done it with NWA a few weeks prior, not even for me but on behalf of my fiancee. Regardless, I dropped it. The TSA supervisor was great: I gave him a quick explanation, asked him if my case was within policy, he said “Yes, what’s the problem?” To which I responded, “Your agent doesn’t know your policy and is trying to tell me that you guys have secret policies.”
He essentially ignored that, [but] he actually went and got me a TSA lock and gave it to me for free, inspected my bag on the spot and checked it through. After asking, he agreed to escort me to the front of security so I wouldn’t miss my flight.
Hooray! Through security! But of course they delay set up a chain reaction.
I asked the NWA agent for my boarding pass (she had taken it earlier when I’d asked for the voucher) – she told me I wouldn’t make the flight – it was about 15-20 minutes prior to takeoff, she had told me that at 10 minutes you are checked as late and the seat is given away.
I told her I would still like to try because I still want to try for the voucher, I explained TSA was going to escort me right through security and that I thought I could make it. She said, again, “You won’t make it,” and she took it upon herself to cancel me off of my scheduled flight and put me on the 730pm flight.
So after I got through security, I went to the NWA customer service center, picked up a “reservation” phone that automatically dials a reservations rep and after a couple minutes of explanation to her she gave me the number of the NWA Detroit Director of Operations (I don’t think she realized whose number she’d given me – especially considering the NWA agent at a desk didn’t know the guys name when I told her I needed to call him). This guy didn’t answer, I left him a message, I never got a call back.
I also called – because the TSA supervisor told me I might be able to get reimbursement – the Detroit TSA customer support manager. He called me back within an hour. I explained to him what’d happened. He stated that he would do an investigation and talk to his people to see what they say happened; gee, I wonder what they’re going to say. I asked him what their reimbursement policy was, should he conclude that I was right, he said “we don’t have one.” He went on to say that his agents err on the side of security. I said, this is absolutely not a case of someone erring on the side of security, she flat out told me hat she didn’t know the policy. He then changed his statement to “well, she erred on the side of safety.” I laughed and told him it was still the same, that she essentially told me she didn’t know the policy – not safety, not security. He said he’d do an investigation and get back to me, that was over a week ago.
I ended up volunteering for a voucher and was put up in a hotel overnight. I asked where my bag would be and was told it would be waiting for me in San Antonio. When I got to San Antonio, the NWA agent first told me it was on the carousel; the same agent, after the carousel was empty, told me she probably had it at the counter. When she finally met me at the counter, she told me she didn’t have the keys to the room and I had to do a claim.
After all of that, there’s a happy ending, but only because Matt wouldn’t let the matter drop. Here’s a good example of how persistence can pay off.
Later in the week I spent approx. an hour dialing various numbers and holding and pushing buttons until I finally got through to a person. At first, this woman was surprisingly friendly; she listened to my tale and told me that absolutely I should have been able to do the voucher at the ticketing counter; she told me she’d never heard a case like this, wanted to give me a voucher, but she said she had to go check with her “Sup”[ervisor] first.
When she came back, the warmth was gone and all I got was, “You were made late because of TSA, there’s nothing I can do for you.”
I told her I was delayed, but not made late and the NWA agent didn’t give me a chance to get the offered voucher. She responded, “Yeah, you didn’t get to the gate so it wasn’t NWAs fault,” to which I responded, “It was NWAs fault that I didn’t get to the gate.” I had to repeat that a couple time. She eventually said she would put down “rude behavior/treatment” by an agent and offered me a $75 voucher.
I said that I wasn’t treated rudely, and that I should be getting the flight voucher. She repeated the usual, I said “I don’t accept your premise” and she just stated that there was nothing she could do for me. I asked to speak to a supervisor – you know, the “Sup” she just talked to 5 minutes ago – and she said, I thought it was deja vu, “I am a supervisor.” I almost laughed; confused by her short memory I asked if I could speak to her supervisor; she said she could do an “escalation,” I said that would be fine; she took down my phone number and a good time to call and said that I would receive a call within 24 hours. I never received that call.
I waited a few days and then wrote an email to Kristen Shovlin (from your website) and Beth Reed (from some other website) – both listed as executive types. When I clicked on the “Beth” email link on the other site, Kristen’s email address came up; I manually typed in Beth’s. Within 3 hours I got a response from Jodee with the usual humminah humminah and I got the voucher.
Thanks for everything you do; hope this is helpful.
Matt
We won’t reprint Matt’s entire email, because we’re running out of space on the web for this story, but basically it was a slightly shorter version of what you just read with the TSA part reduced to “TSA delayed me.” At the end of the email, Matt states clearly,
I am sorry for my verbosity, but I feel strongly that I should receive a flight voucher. I tried all of the proper channels first and received essentially no resolution.
(Photo: Getty)
More From Consumerist
-
Petition Calls On White House To Require TSA To Seek Public Comment On Full-Body Scanners
-
Dying Woman Says TSA Humiliated Her By Refusing To Perform Search In Private
-
Woman Accused Of Groping TSA Agent Claims Turnabout Is Fair Play
-
Man Claims TSA Agent Spilled His Grandfather’s Ashes During Security Screening
-
Man Who Exercised 1st Amendment Rights By Stripping At Airport Still Owes TSA $1K
@johnva:
We disagree on the first point. Why didn’t the 9/11 hijackers use guns or knives instead of boxcutters? Because guns and knives were at the top of the list to stop from passing through security. The risk was too great so they took an easier way out.
“Another issue is the fact that any terrorist would go for the weakest link in the security chain. Spending lots of resources attempting to prevent the kind of threat we’ve seen before just guarantees that terrorists will do something different in the future.”
I agree. The 9/11 hijackers got around the system by using box cutters that were not prohibited and techniques that were never used before (taking over the plane without a need for the pilots, flying, and crashing the planes). It’s unlikely that these tactics would work if used again. I think we both agree that stopping the unexpected is what is important but it is by definition the most difficult to stop.
And I bet if there was never a stink about any of it made (Which wasn’t an option as you could not travel without your weapon) they wouldn’t have black balled you. But that’s the way people get through their day–by being assholes to other people. Sucks your time that could be spent with your family was derailed by selfish assholes who make it a point to be a thorn in other people’s sides.
Rest assured, they’ll burn in hell.
@johnva: What you’ve seen isn’t the same thing as “objectively reduces,” though. Our individual observations aren’t a statistically significant sampling, even if we were in a position to know what has been averted as well as what happened. Of course, it’s very difficult to know what’s been averted, and without it there’s no way really to judge, so claims of success are about as questionable as claims of failure.
@Sian:
Actually, You may mail a Firearm to Yourself at any address legally.
@captain_underpants: Thank you for proving my point: we are so PC that we would rather allow ourselves to suffer aggravation, frustration and humiliation than offend anyone.
@thebluepill: Ahh, yes, with the ground only service and only two and from licensed dealers. Less of a headache indeed.
@chiieddy: Exactly. What can I do with four ounces of liquid instead of 3? Have another whisky?
@SadSam: That’s what I was told by someone in Wichita. Back when you could still wear shoes.
@HFC: Have you ever had to show a baggage claim ticket at an airport? I haven’t…except for those times when NWA lost my luggage.
@johnva: Next time I’m trying to get to my grandma’s deathbed, I’ll remember to refuse to obey the TSA’s secret laws.
I have a moral obligation to do a lot of things. Sometimes, the number of obligations overwhelms me. I guess we all have to do a little triage when it comes to our conscience.
May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
@vivelafat:
I serously doubt this was his military issue weapon. I would say this was something personal in nature.
@TideGuy: Metal detectors are only useful for detecting weapons made out of
(wait for it)
metal.
X ray machines are only useful for detecting weapons that
(wait for it)
look like weapons.
We have no defense against someone walking on board an airliner with a volcanic glass (or fiberglass, or some other composite material) knife in his pocket. And no defense against someone who figures out how to make a handgun that, when disassembled, doesn’t look like a handgun.
Security theater.
I just find this odd because when ever I flew I just showed my Military ID and TSA always let me go past the checkpoints.
@jswilson64:
Thats a really good point.
I think you would be fairly hard pressed to make a firearm or amunition out of a non-metal material. Even carbon fiber would have difficulty standing up to chamber pressures.
My local Airport now has a machine that blows air over you to detect explosives and gun powder.. kinda cool.
I fly once a month from work, usually transcontinental.
I used to think dumb families on vacation completely unprepared were the worst. Now it’s definitely TSA people. I don’t think I’ve ever had a positive experience with them.
TSA rep has to be a job for someone who has a mural of American flags screaming bald eagles on the walls of their home and has never had a position of authority before.
@johnva: I’d give LITTLE in to say he was in really haggard shape so it could even have been classist… but wouldn’t anyone look bad after being forced to fly 8 hours in the opposite direction to wait in a frozen hanger in Kazakhstan for 12 hours then flying over the ocean to Midwest, USA after being stationed in the sandbox for damn near forever? And if someone clearly was in bad shape from traveling a long time wouldn’t you take “no” for an answer, instead of snapping back rudely that OTHER people had families and that he was being selfish not to give up his seat so that THEY could get home?
I was ready to fly to the airport to throttle the … (no words that aren’t swearing are appropriate). I have a temper as it is but to presume he had no one anxiously waiting for him at home is… sick.
They also lost all 9 of his bags. Including his gun. Which the airline later found and had delivered about 4 weeks later.
@verdantpine: When he was over there last time I organized gift drives for the single soldiers/w-o families. He’d have to keep his eyes and ears open and a lot who didn’t get care packages from home, got one from me.
@Slytherin: Wow. Bye bye, troll.
@bifloman: it’s so pc of me to be against racism, isn’t it?
@HFC: Yep, I hate it when someone decides when and where to enforce the rules that they’re supposed to enforce on everyone. Sure do. “Sorry, we don’t give a $hit about your baggage getting stolen off the carousel, but once I’ve walked my ass over there and rolled it back over here, well now the rules apply.”
But I’m sure I’m wierd that way. Everyone else likes it when rules are applied arbitrarily and capriciously – that’s why nobody ever posts about crap like this on Consumerist.
@SadSam: you read it somewhere? National Enquirer perhaps?
@tedyc03: yea@
Slytherin: and most stupid comments come from harry potter fans?
@jjeefff: While I agree with you, the problem is that the people with the authority will cost a LOT more than the TSA people they use.
And heaven help us if they trained TSA people to the level needed to do as you said above…
In MA, one officer, (Obviously you would need many more for each terminal) cost a minimum of 40 bucks an hour, figure 9 hours and 3 shifts by 365 days, not counting holidays and people working on vacations which they then charge double time… You are looking at a minimum of 1 million a year per 24 hr period per terminal / group of 3 officers per day assigned to a terminal.
Logan would easily cost more than 10 million…
@erratapage: I agree that it’s hard to do. But I think things like secret laws are where we start to cross over from “democratic government” to “authoritarian regime”. I agree with what you’re saying, but I think there are times when the correct response is to take a stand. I will comply most of the time, but if I ever have a serious problem with TSA mistreatment you can bet that I’m going to refuse to obey them until they can show me the policy or law that authorizes their actions. If that has consequences, I’m going to lawyer up.
@captain_underpants: This has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with protecting us; which is one of the few jobs the Founder’s gave the government (but that is another discussion). Generally, a terrorist will fit a certain profile (and before you say it, yes there acceptations – Tim McVeigh). If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear about. It works in Israel, it could work here.
@nicless:
Always at least one of those on every thread.
@bifloman: are you honestly saying that it’s ok (ideal, even) for government employees to choose whom to inspect (harass?) more thoroughly based on the color of one’s skin??? well then, why not go further and have a “white line” and a “colored line”?
i hope i’m wrong, but i get the feeling that when you say this has to do with protecting us, the “us” you’re referring to is white people.
@TideGuy: @johnva:
Exactly. It keeps the amateurs from doing something stupid. It’s like locks on cars or houses: If someone really wants the car or what is in the house, they are going to find a way. Likewise with airport security. If someone really wants to hijack an airplane or whatever, independent of what the TSA does, they will pull it off.
That’s not to say that we shouldn’t try, though. Security theater does have its benefits, mostly a feeling of calm for passengers. That and it employs people, too.
@johnva:
I think that the Current Occupant’s (to quote Garrison Keillor) administration gets its authority to institute arbitrary secret rules because it has been elected to govern. Thus, it can do what it wants how it wants to because the people gave Bush the “mandate” to do so.
Cheers!
@bifloman: The problem (beyond the serious ethical and civil rights issues) is that if racial profiling is actually used, terrorists will just find someone who doesn’t fit the “profile” to carry out their attacks.
@SinisterMatt:
That’s not to say that the administration’s logic is correct. I don’t think it is, as it leads to dangerous places.
Cheers!
@captain_underpants: Of course not, all I am saying is most terrorist fit a certain profile. That’s what the TSA should be looking for, not some grandmother in a wheelchair. I drive between San Diego and Los Angeles all the time. Frequently, at the San Onforo check point, I get waved over to the secondary check because of who I am and the car I drive. I have nothing to hide so I don’t care that they profile me. Yes, it is an inconvenience but again, I have nothing to hide.
@SinisterMatt:
I disagree that security theater creates a feeling of calm for passengers. I believe it actually has the opposite effect, putting people on edge and making them testy, cranky, and fearful by stressing them and reminding them of the threat of terrorism. Fear, I might remind you, is how terrorists control people. So it’s at least plausible that security theater actually makes people more compliant when someone who claims authority tells them what to do (which is how the terrorists prevented the passengers on those planes from fighting back). And job creation is about the worst possible argument for the existence of any government bureaucracy.
Once you allow arbitrary secret rules, then there is no such thing as the rule of law anymore. Because there is no way for you as a member of the public, or your lawyer, to verify the authority under which a government official is doing something. Thus, they can do whatever they want. It’s that serious. They may just be using these “secret laws” for transportation security now, but who is to say that they won’t decide some other reason is equal justification for secret laws in the future? That sort of thing is exactly indicative of how abusive authoritarian regimes rule over the day-to-day lives of their own citizens. They transfer the authority to do things over from a public law that we can all read to “do what I say, because I’m the government. Only I know the rules, so you have to do whatever I say”.
@ClutchDude:
You thought you were writing some satire, but…
Maybe 15-20 years ago in rural England, a private bus company was getting constant complaints about its wretched, usually late service.
A spokesman for the company told a British newspaper that the buses would be on time if they didn’t have to stop & pickup & let off passengers!
@jswilson64:
During the Great Depression, sone of the most popular items were glass knives. I’m sure you can still find them in antique stores & the occasional garage sale. They will go through a metal detector unless they were made with a high lead content, but I don’t think Depression glass was made that way. And if packed correctly, they might even pass the X-ray.
As prior military, I can say that having your leave taken by the airlines is one of the most frustrating things imaginable. People don’t understand the military leave policy. Civilians take leave and hour (sometimes less) at a time. The military makes you take WEEKEND DAYS if you are out of town.
Visiting relatives?
Civilian: Gone one week total, left Friday night after work, returned Sunday afternoon = 5 days.
Military: Gone one week total, left Friday night after work, returned Sunday afternoon = 9 days (unless your supervisor makes you count that Friday…then it’s 10).
Also, that leave time is your sick days, your vacation days, and any holiday you’re off that isn’t a Federal Holiday (like Christmas vacation).
@papahoth:
Sorry I can’t find the original article that I read on the issue of TSA using stress to trigger interactions with passengers. But here is an article on the TSA system being used which is called SPOT. [www.time.com]
Here’s a tip.
Don’t ever ask for a “supervisor”!!
The correct phrase is “Please let me speak to your superior.”
Everybody may be a “supervisor” these days, but everybody also has a boss.
Well, not everybody, but if you find yourself talking to someone that doesn’t, they’re either A) lying or B) they’ve got no excuse to pass the buck.
@bifloman: You can always define terrorism in such a way as to include visually identifiable people, but it doesn’t have much to do with actually enacting policy that makes anybody safer.
The five main domestic U.S. flights brought down by bombing have all been considered domestic work. Not much point in profiling in a way that would exclude the biggest historical source of domestic terrorism aloft.
@Parapraxis: Word.
Thank Ye George Carlin, who once said.
Well. Watch this video.
@Nick1693: Oops!
“TSA, can you at least train your agents to do their jobs properly?”
No. Because that would cost money.
We had a similar nasty and officious TSA supervisor at the Santa Rosa airport, who took 15 minutes ostentatiously going through my friend’s carry-on. It’s too tedious and trivial to go through the gory details, but suffice to say, even the other agents were embarrassed at his behavior towards this 68-year-old grandmother who posed such a dire threat. Their eye-rolling, snorts and tsks showed that they knew this guy well, and that this wasn’t his first grandstand. One apologized to me.
Meanwhile, through all the nonsense and commotion, something truly dangerous could have been going on.
And indeed, was.
The next day, as she opened a package of accumulated gifts she’d hurriedly thrown into her carry-on, she said “Remember that jerk at Santa Rosa? Look what he let on the plane!”
And held up her gift-packaged 8″ cook’s knife.
Man, after reading so many awful stories like this I never want to fly again.
@geneb5: I’ve also had TSA agents apologize to me for the terrible behavior of their colleagues; once one of them even whispered “she’s just a bitch” under his breath to me after his coworker put on a display of treating people like dirt. Which makes me wonder…if even their coworkers can tell how horrible some of the TSA agents are, why don’t those people get fired? Their attitude is actually a security threat in addition to being an unacceptable way to treat members of the public.
@bobpence:
He didn’t volunteer for the voucher.
“I asked to speak to a supervisor, [and was told] iit would be 30 minutes before he arrived. Foreseeing a possible “late arrival” and subsequent loss of seat, I asked the same NWA agent if the vouchers were still being offered”
It wasn’t until the TSA and NWA employees held him up (each in their own special way) that he thought about the voucher. I don’t see anything where he planned on taking the voucher anyway.
You wanted to clear the welfare roles. Well you got your wish. Workfare I believe it’s called. Wouldn’t it be easier to just pay these people to stay at home, breed, drink, do crack, weave their hair and leave us alone?
That’s it – I’m never giving TSA anymore of my busin….
Nevermind.
I can believe this (Although we never know how the guy treated the Officer in the first place), supervisors that were hired at first were never officers so they don’t know the rules but still pretend they know everything.
There are a lot of good officers, but their are too many bad apples that are never dealt with in that agency…
Personally, I’m trying to do whatever I can to weed out TSOs that should have been fired years ago…
that’s what you get for not showing up at the airport 6 hours early for your flight
First rule of problems with the TSA: Ask for a supervisor AND the airline’s Ground Security Coordinator (GSC).
@SadSam: and SPOT is a good thing. Hardly what you are claiming. Do you really believe that if such a thing existed, this and other websites would not be up in arms about it?
@pb5000:
Really? I thought Indonesia had the largest Muslim population outside the Middle East. In fact, I believe it has the largest Muslim population in the world.
@jswilson64:
I never argued that TSA (or any security for that matter) has the ability to stop everything but tell me how the actions of TSA (in this case) “in all actuality does absolutely nothing to stem any threats whatsoever, and sometimes, makes it easier for threats to get by.”
If I can name one threat that is stopped (and I have) then I have proven the statement false.
If either candidate wants to win the Presidential election by a landslide, they need to publicly condemn the TSA and tell the people if elected it will be dismantled.
Every person who has flown since 9/11 will vote for them. Regardless of political party.