The price of oil dropped $2.19 today, to $117.91, spurring a stock market and dollar rally. Sounds like good news. Except that it’s dropping because the market thinks more people won’t be able to afford to drive their cars as much. Who’s up for a “staycation?”
Oil Prices Tumble Again; Stock Markets Surge [NYT] (Photo: hanapbuhay)
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@InfiniTrent: Commas, please? Eyes…crossing…
Glad I could be of service. I left the commas out to drive home the point that there are so many zeros you’ll struggle to count them.
@RagingBoehner: Plus, they pay many more times in taxes what they earn in profit. Not that it’s a bad thing — but the biggest winner in Exxon’s ascendancy is the U.S. Treasury.
There’s no doubt that they pay significant taxes (according to some guy it’s more than the bottom 50% of individual US taxpayers). I’m not fan of a windfall profits tax because it’s bad and misguided economic policy, so they don’t need to convince me.
But there is some considerable spin on that page that I’m not even going to try to decode. Mostly because corporate taxes are out of my league (but i’ll guess that foreign income is taxable, so it’s stupid to say “We paid more in taxes than we made in domestic income). And This chart would make Edward Tufte cry.
Overall, they are not paying more in taxes than they earn in profits. Their income sheet would beg to differ.
@Michael Belisle: I read they pay $3 in taxes for every $1 profit. I’m not going to stand behind that. But I read that somewhere. Obviously you can twist stats to make them say what you want.
But ya, I mean, the provide oil to all of america. Everyone is their customer. They make money. You prefer they not? They have also had record losses (which is where the subsidies come in)
@Bladefist: I read they pay $3 in taxes for every $1 profit.
I found a link where the Tax Foundation says that. That’s over a 25-year-period, including a silly windfall profits tax in the early 80s.
At first glance, I see 2 problems:
1) They included taxes at the pump, which were paid by you and me, not the industry. I’m not about to let the industry take credit for taxes I paid.
2) They included royalty payments, which are only taxes if you believe that corporations should be able mine oil in your back yard without paying you a dime.
In reality, according to Exxon, their effective tax rate was 44% in 2007, which is of course 84¢ of taxes for every $1 of profit.
They make money. You prefer they not?
I got no problem with them making money.
@Michael Belisle: Good exchange here between you and Bladefist.
84 cents of tax on a dollar of profit sounds pretty high to me. Folks who launch projectile sweat because of record oil company profits don’t consider (or bother with) a couple of things: 1. the oil bidness is boom or bust, and 2. look at the revenues and examine their margins, which are pretty small.
Don’t worry, oil will go back up and the dollar back down after the election is over.
utah still has one of the highest gas prices in the country. It sucks. People have complained to the governor but nothing major has been done.
I’m going to pretend that you didn’t just say “staycation.”
Good. I’m glad the price of oil is down. The economy is hosed anyway, so it’s not like the slide in oil prices is going to screw things up any more than they already are.
Besides, now it’ll be interesting to see if everyone finds a different excuse to explain the high cost of goods and the grocery shrink ray.
Prices have dropped by what 3 cents? Wow!
Wait till next year when gas is at $4.75, it usually seems to go up a full dollar then the year before at the same time of the year.
@Michael Belisle: Ok. I figured there was some nonsense in that $3 thing, that came from a biased person trying to twist stats.
IMO, 84 cents is extremely high.
Blaming the speculators–that’s a smokescreen, to distract folks from fingering the real criminals. The shareholders and owners of large oil companies are laughing all the way to the bank. Shareholders, such as the Rockefeller clan, who have controlling interest (if not sole ownership) in ExxonMobil, etc., have been ripping us off, for a long time. The oil companies have avoided building refineries and use every method they can, to expand their profits at our expense. We are dependent upon the oil companies for their product, when there should be little use for petroleum.
But there’s plenty of oil, and there will be, for a long time.
And when it comes to taxes, the DuPonts were at the forefront (c. 1913, at least) of ensuring large, greedy corporations and the super-rich (trillionaires) don’t pay, or pay very little.
OK, just drove from Williamsburg, VA to Nashua, NH for vacation to visit family. Last Friday, it took 8 hours to drive from Williamsburg to Mt Laurel, NJ where we stayed over night and then took another 8 hours on Saturday to drive from there to NH.
So tell me again, there are less people driving where???!!!???
@mrearly2: Regulation and cost are a stumbling block to building new refineries.
Interesting info about a refinery being built in Arizona that’s going to cost around $3 billion:
[NPR's All Things Considered]
[Arizona Clean Fuels]
Interesting phenomenon how posting drops off when they roll to the second page (+100) and age older than a day. It’s a fast-moving online world we live in.
@BillsBurg: “Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike, they’ve all gone to look for America…”
@kaptainkk: Rape the planet. Drill through the polar bears and the seals! My truck don’t run on alternative fuels. It runs on evil gasoline from evil big oil!
It’s how I keep my evil carbon footprint to somewhere close to the size of Cincinnati. That, and, oh yeah, my incandescent light bulbs.
@kaptainkk:
I’m not so sure that population control is the answer. It seems we have done alright up until now, and controlling the population in places like China has generated bigger problems than any threat of overpopulation (for example, they now have a preponderance of men and less women because the culture values males more than females). Granted, we haven’t had almost 7 billion people on the planet at any one time, but I would wager that the earth can support much more than it does now. If resources are used responsibly (in the case of food, distributing it to everyone instead of to your political allies, for example), then there should be enough and to spare for everyone.
In the case of oil and other resources, I say, it’s there, let’s use it. What other natural use is there for the stuff? That doesn’t mean, though, that we should recklessly consume and not plan for the future. Responsible use by everyone would ensure that society’s use for it continues into the future.
That said, and any discussion of economics aside (not my strong suit), I think that the fact that the price of oil is dropping is fabulous. Maybe it’s shortsighted of me, but anything that saves me money is a Good Thing (TM).
Cheers!
@mrearly2:
Actually, I read something a little while ago that said that some of the Rockefellers (who hold a significant portion, but not a controlling piece, of Exxon stock) are trying to get Exxon to look more long-term, but the rest of the board of directors are more focused on reaping the windfall profits.
Cheers!
@SinisterMatt:
That should be the group of Rockefellers who want to focus long term don’t have a controlling piece of stock. Oops! My Bad.
I cut my driving down over 50%. Even when gas prices go back down, I don’t plan to increase this anymore. I found out I actually enjoy walking and riding a bike again. I just hope we continue searching for an alternative solution. Screw oil. This past price raping has been a lesson for the masses. It’s time to MOVE ON FROM OIL. We can do it!!!
@Pro-Pain: You’re right. Oil is so terrible. The masses would have been much better off sticking with horse and buggy carriages, and heating their homes with wood-burning stoves.
When will you people learn how to read Ben’s sarcasm?
@nursetim: that certainly solved all of my energy problems
@mackjaz: aren’t you the same one that said you drive 60 miles to work?
I’ve never understood people complaining about any company making a profit, that’s what they are in business to do. Wouldn’t it be like telling individuals you can only have $100 for example in the bank, because not everybody can save more than that? I’ve never met a single person that said they didn’t want to make a profit. It is possible to lose less gas if that is your main goal. Move closer to work, take public transporation, walk to the store. Don’t blame the oil companies because you want to get to work quicker or more comfortably.
My job is 13 miles from my house, if gas prices were my biggest concern, than I would walk or buy a bike, yeah I’d have to get up pretty damned early to do it, so I won’t, because I value my convenience and comfort over paying more for gas.
The tire gauage thing? duh, I remember hearing that when I first started driving in the 70′s. And for people that want the speed limit lowered, go ahead and drive 55 yourself (please stay in the right lane though)
@Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity: My parents are in Matawan and would rent a house for a week at a time in Lavalette. We’d run around the beach, go crabbing and go sailing because one of their friends owned a house in town and let us use their Sunfish.