"The United States Postal Service is falling apart." I like how people love to get dramatic in their own little corner of the world. I ship out over a hundred packages a week using the USPS, and I rarely have a problem once every 6 months or so.

From a customer confidence standpoint, though, she's right for her experience. She paid for insurance, and the USPS is using the most egregious reason to not honor it.

I understand why they need a receipt for the value of the item, but why the damage needs to be "intentional" to be covered is odd...... I would ask them to provide denial of the claim in writing with the reason - I just can't believe that's a valid reason and think something is missing....

Yeah it sounds like she's never even called usps and is just relying on her friend for information. He could be just trying to get a free laptop, or maybe he un-intentionally broke it and is passin the blame. I've had to file claims with usps before and never had a problem.

Nearly every shipping service --be it USPS, UPS, FedEx or DHL-- will try to weasel out of paying insurance claims. It's no different than a store trying to back out of a price guarantee or warranty. Apparently, this is how business is run these days.

Anyway, how did the OP ship this item? Express mail claims are handled differently than First Class mail claims.

Let's start with the basics.

Fragile written on a shipping box is absolutely meaningless. The conveyor systems at the bulk processing terminals only perform one level of service and the employees are not allowed to perform special handling service to a product just because the word "Fragile" is written on a box. UPS's written instructions specifically state the box should be devoid of such comments. I am fairly certain (99.9%) USPS has the same policies.

2nd. Bubble wrap is one step above worthless for shipping valuable electronics. Doublewall exterior boxes (ultra heavy duty boxes compared to the usual single wall boxes used by consumers, USPS and small business shippers) combined with an inner box and/or precut foam inserts (spacers) are typically used by professional (read Dell, HP etc) electronic manufacturers for their high valued shipments. Those "professional" package systems are certified by an UPS laboratory to meet or exceed UPS standards with package damage rates well below 0.01% (1 box in 1000). A counter clerk at USPS is not an authority on proper shipping methods (neither am I, I just have too many contacts with UPS that are considered {for UPS purposes} an authority).

3rd. Insurance claims must have proof of value. Declared value on a bill of lading or shipping document is not proof of value. Insurance fraud is serious and the shipping companies are going to protect themselves against fraud. For the record, I have never seen a claim paid unless accompanied by proof of value.

4th. I will need to see the claim that USPS requires an employee to admit fault. That one is a new one for me. Oh trust me, USPS (as well UPS and FedEx) is real good at slimming their way out of payiing insurance claims. Real good. Their denial forms are very standardized. Never seen a standard denial form that mentioned employee abuse as a requirement.

Also, here's some info on filing claims with usps:
[pe.usps.gov]

I'm surprised that the Compaq brand continues to exist despite the fact that their products are very shoddy. That's why I have a regular HP computer.

Something is lacking from this story. I guess the longer above comments explains it all.

I had some items sent to me, USPS insured, by someone who didn't pack them well. Additionally, however, the boxes were mashed and 2 of them had at least 1 side burst open. I know the folks at my local station and they shook their heads over the mess and helped me as best they could. Fortunately, only one item was actually damaged. I was told that to file an insurance claim, what I needed was a repair estimate and that there was a time limit.

Because the item was unusual and it was hard to find anyone on my island to prepare an estimate for me, I missed the deadline.

My sense is that OP might not be understanding what is required and/or may be close to missing the cutoff day.

----

To add to the computer shipping comments -- spend the $10 on a FedEx computer shipping box and enclose it in another box if you don't have the original notebook box and packaging. The foam and suspension systems in the FedEx boxes are darn near impervious to the trauma of 5,000-mile journeys.

@Angryrider: Um. You know they are one and the same now, right?

@ceejeemcbeegee: Wow! you scare me! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!...

Not 5 mins ago I was looking at your avatar and thinking how much I didn't like it. I was sooo close to asking you to change it, and 5 minutes later...

SO GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!

Lol with bubble wrap and in a box I don't see how USPS broke a hinge. That would be hard to do.

I think the friend broke it and is now trying to pass of the blame.

Was the box damaged? I can understand the PO being difficult if there was no damage to the packaging.

It's restitution, not retribution, dear.

I ship & receive about 25 packages a week through USPS. Many with insurance.

I've had 4 problems. Once the package had been slit open with a knife and the item removed. Took about 7 weeks to get the insurance on that.

The other three have been damaged in transit, twice it was the post office's fault and once the sender had used a plain manila envelope for a very fraigile item.

With all three, I (or the buyer) needed to turn the damaged items over to the PO in order to get a refund. I was bluntly told "You don't get the money for it and get to keep it."

Perhaps that is the case here? If the OP doesn't want to give away his computer for $500.00 worth of insurance, the situation could get difficult.

@JaneBadall: Insurance isn't necessarily in place to REPLACE the item, but to REPAIR a broken item. The $500 could go towards replacing the broken hinge, and screen (if the hinge does damage the screen).

My guess: since he didn't report it broken when he got it, the USPS is claiming the damage happened after it was delivered. And... maybe they're right?

Not that I'm blaming the poster but... why ship a computer cross country to take care of a virus? No computer repair on the East Coast? I guess I'm mostly curious.

I am worried that they require a receipt, though.

The USPS DOES do things like this, though. My college graduation present (solid metal) came PUNCTURED. Like a steel rod got jammed through it.

@warloc66: Grammar issues should be sent via email; pointing them out in comments doesn't help very much.

I ship 400 to 500 packages a week to my customers. I NEVER use the post office for anything valuable or important, even though it would be cheaper. I always use UPS and on the rare occasion there has been a problem, they've always paid my claim within a week. UPS will also refund the shipping charges if they don't deliver the package on-time, which is very different from the Post Office's policy of "Express Mail means it'll get there some day, maybe, no promises." Good luck getting that claim processed. I wish you the best of luck.

I received a glass bowl I purchased online and when the mail man delivered it he brought it to my door and said 'Hope it's ok, but it doesn't sound like it' I opened it and it was broken in 3 pieces, but was wrapped in bubble wrap and had insurance. So he told me to contact the PO. Which I immediately did, I drove there with the box and pieces. Was told the person who processes the claims wouldn't be in until morning that they would leave it for them and for me to call in the morning. I called in the morning and was told they were investigating it. I never heard back from them again about it. I let it go, the bowl was part of a candle and I replaced it for $2. They will sell you the insurance, but won't pay out.

Hey, the OP isn't the person who recieved the package in the mail.

Who's to say the friend at the other end didn't fark it up somehow accidentally and decided to blame USPS? Who's to say the laptop wasn't already dodgy to begin with? What if this is really an ebay sale/scam gone bad?

There's just too many vagaries in the story to cast doubt on the overall situation.

This story sounds like a scam. The OP isn't the person who recieved the package, and so they weren't there to see it first hand. The friend could have gotten drunk, dropped it, whatever, and decided to blame USPS since there was insurance on it.

Too many vagaries to take it seriously.

What do you expect from a government agency??? They are still government employees with a government employee mentality. If you like this kind of service, wait untill you get government-run health insurance. But, it will be "free." I sent a package last year to a son in the First Cavalry Division stationed in Taji, Iraq. Three weeks later it came back to me with a note saying they could not find the 1st Cavalry Division. I fully understood that, as they only have some ten thousand troops all over half of Iraq. Easy to miss them. I recently sent a new desktop pc to Texas. I used Fed Ex and it got there the next day, with no damage, etc. Great outfit. UPS is good too, but the USPS is fast becoming unreliable with people who could care less. They cannot be fired for crappy service so they tend to give crappy service.

@guilliam: Man you kept talkin bout a glass bowl and I was thinking you were talkin about something else.

I'm still searching for the place in the OP's letter where it states the package was damaged. It would also be enormously helpful to see photos of the damaged package.

I'm also trying to understand how a hinge--and JUST a hinge--could be damaged in shipping. If the corner of the unit was damaged, and the corner of the box was crushed, I'd have no problem understanding it. But how can a hinge (usually at least an inch or more in from the corner) be damaged in shipping?

To my knowledge (and I'll admit it's been a while since I worked in this field,) there are two ways to damage a hinge:

1) The user opens a laptop in a way that is abusive.
2) The hinge is defective, and breaks during normal use.

Defective laptop hinges are not unheard of. And they're well protected from damage not related to use because of their location on the laptop. It would have had to have been a direct hit on exactly the right spot to damage a hinge, and that hit would certainly be visible on the shipping box, and possibly also on the laptop case it was packed in.

My WAG: the hinge was defective, and the friend either noticed existing damage, or the hinge failed when the friend opened the laptop.

What really bothers me here is that whenever I've shipped something with USPS, and they ask if I'd like to insure it, I've NEVER been told that I would need my receipt for the purchase price of the item in order to collect any insurance payout. I've always assumed that it would be "worth" whatever amount I bought insurance for. That information may be available somewhere, but they should be completely clear about it before the insurance is purchased.

@Propaniac: Although I'm only going by the comments here that requiring the purchase receipt for the item in order to pay out on insurance is USPS policy. I was totally confused by the original complaint: "I sent him the receipt... they said they won't pay it out without the receipt."

@Propaniac: Then you might actually have everything needed in a timely manner to get your insurance money. Why would they do something to help you get what you are owed?

I'm with those on this site who smell a fish. A laptop hinge doesn't get injured in transit. It gets damaged when the screen is opening and closing. If the OP wrapped it in the large, 3/4" bubble wrap, placed it in a laptop case, and then wrapped THAT in more large bubble wrap, that is in fact a very good way to go about it. And I can see no scenario in that situation, where it could be possible at all for a laptop hinge to be broken.

I'm pretty sure her "buddy" dropped it, and is trying to blame the USPS.

@Propaniac: They don't tell you that. But you need the receipt. If you ship something worth $10, but insure it for $50 (the cost is the same either way,) if the package is damaged they will pay you the $10 the item was worth, not the $50 you claimed when you filled out the insurance form.

See here: How to file domestic insurance claims

@warloc66: But retribution sounds so much cooler.

The LCD panel on a mass market laptop like any consumer HP model doesn't cost anywhere near $800 to replace. Sure HP may list that as the cost to repair, but the actual value of the panel is much closer to $150-250. You can find them in that range on eBay quite easily, just search "dv9700 lcd." That same search will also give you a replacement part for the hinge which costs $89 for both sides or $49 for the left side only. Any competent computer tech could replace both items in less than an hour.

The fact that the recipient friend says that it would cost so much means that they either aren't so great of tech and won't be replacing it themselves but sending it in for repair OR they are trying to rip off the OP for a relatively massive amount of money. Note that if that laptop was purchased 7 months ago at slightly over $1000, its current value is probably in the $700 range after depreciation and wear. So the "repair" would cost more than the value of the laptop.

For anything like a computer most places require that it be double boxed with at least 2 inches of foam around it everywhere. Also they will use the box as a reason if it was a cheap thin one. Basically to ship it and collect insurance, you have to ship it in a container packed so it's virtually indestructible.
All the places are pricks about it, but also I bet they get a ton of insurance fraud claims each year too, people shipping expensive, already broken items to collect. A friend of mine worked at a UPS shipping dock years ago, and when they saw something marked "fragile" they used to heave it just to see how fragile it really was. DO NOT mark fragile on the package! Nobody will treat it special except to see if it's really breakable or not. Nothing good comes from having your package stand out in that way. If you pack it right, it won't be any more breakable than any other box they deliver.
IF you have to choose between spending money on insurance and extra beefy packing material, pack it within an inch of it's life and double box the thing. Your odds are a lot better if it's a used item who's price you can't document.

Friends.......I ship a butt-load of packages daily. (I sell performance auto parts online. I always insure my packages worth more then $200 through DSI (no I am not a shill for DSI). They have always handled my claims quickly with a minimal amount of paperwork. I believe I pay approximately .80 cents for a hundred dollars worth of coverage with DSI. Their website allows me to purchase coverage for a single shipment. Easy as pie. I believe DSI requires signature confirmation upon delivery which is an additional charge with the carrier.

Peace of mind for pennies. (My least cynical post to date)

OP

The hinge damage wasnt from USPS.
PM me, and i will insure that this hinge is fixed, and i will even make sure that if this is not already in your hands, no more shipping costs will need to be paid.

If the OP doesnt read this, and someone knows them, please relay this information

Since i cannot edit my post.

This will all be done through HP directly, before any detractors speak up.

I will not ever ask you to do anything, that cannot be verified through a simple call to HP tech support.

I send my LA buddy the insurance information along with the required receipt and figure the money would be distributed in a respectable amount of time. NOT! My buddy calls me later after he recieved the insurance information and explains that the post office clerk in LA tells him that "without a receipt, they probably won't honor your insurance claim)".

Um, what does this mean? Did your friend lose your receipt that you sent him? That is why they won't honor your claim.

@spudaroo:

Do some math for yourself. Package insurance is a huge ripoff to any decent size shipper.

Personally, I self insure.

Example: My shipping with UPS:

Way back when, UPS covered the first $100 in value and then the shipper was suppose to pay $0.25 per $100 (or part there of) in value above the initial $100. Then the rates increased. And increased. Then UPS started with their "minimum" insurance amount. The current "minimum" excess value amount is $1.80, purchased in increments of $0.60 per $100. Which means goods "valued" up to $399 require $1.80 in excess value insurance.

BULL SHEET

Do the math:

Assuming 100 high value boxes shipped per week insured at a cost of $1.80 per box equals $180. 52 weeks per year at $180 per week equals $9360 in excess value insurance being purchased. UPS routinely looses or damages 4 of my high value shipments per year. Each shipment has a vendor (my) cost of $350 per shipment or an annual claims rate of $1400 on payments of $9360. Not a good equation. And there is all the BS that UPS claims/insurance goes through in trying to prevent their paying the claim. Having a shipping clerk spend the better part of one 40 hour work week per year in an attempt to recover $1400 is a poor use of resources.

So I shelf-insure. My handling charges are adjusted upwards slightly to include "insurance" at no additional cost to the customer. Boom. Done. And I set aside $10,000 each year that I was going to waste with UPS to handle any damage claims I may have. At the end of the year I reclaim the $ left over from the damage package fund and give a portion to the employees in the shipping department as a bonus and keep the rest for myself. My bones last year was $3700.

My customers received replacement goods as needed. The boys and girls in the shipping dept sure liked their bonus. I liked my bonus. And I screwed over UPS in their attempts to gouge for excess value insurance. Not a bad day all around.

Self insuring is generally not going to work with people that only ship a couple high value packages per week. But for everybody else it sure beats trying to file damage claims.

It looks like this may be unnecessary, but there are other ways than a receipt to show proof of value for an item that was shipped.

I had a misfortune with a custom built computer sent through UPS that was insured for $5000. When it showed up looking like someone had driven a fork truck tine through the triple box I took pictures, had the insurance adjuster guy come look at it and all the packaging, and sent UPS quotes for similar custom built machines from the online houses showing that a custom built computer to those performance specifications could cost anywhere from %4500 to $6500.

I didn't get my check quickly, but it did arrive without much pushback.

If the OP can't get help from Mr. Bond, she can try showing the USPS quotes for the identical machine that will support the estimate of value on the insurance form.

One last addition, Warranty status doesnt matter.
The only way this wouldnt be fixed, is if the Service Facility deemed it either dangerous (ie Insects, or Bodily fluids) or Unrepairable (ie all main components damaged)

FYI - there is an issue with HP dv model laptops and the left hinge breaking. If this is the hinge that is next to the security lock, it may not be a post office issue and actually be an HP issue.

I just had mine replaced, at HP's cost. Read: FREE

Lisa, thats not quite true, There is no issue with the DV model notebooks, and left hinges breaking.

There are a VERY small percentage of people reporting this problem, but nothing outside of (or even approaching) even below average numbers

Some 12 years ago I mailed a stereo to myself from college in the original foams, box, etc. When I received it at my family's home, it had an outer superficial break and a part was broken in the CD changer that prevented it from changing correctly or playing CDs correctly (they weren't spinning at the right angle). I'd insured the box and when I filed the claim, the USPS told me that since there was no proof that it wasn't already broken before I mailed it, they weren't going to pay me the stereo's value. Ever since then I don't bother with the insurance. I just make sure to pack things as well as humanly possible.

Oh and the box was damaged on the same side as the external superficial damage to the stereo. But allegedly I broke the stereo. I wish I had pictures or video of when I handed off that box to the post office employee!

@synergy:

Unfortunately common problem.

Look at the issue from the shipping company's perspective ..... the customer has a farked up appliance .... the customer ships the item to or from their mother to themselves ..... the customer claims hidden shipping damage. In plain simple terms what I just described is fraud. It is done to the shipping companies each and every day. Of course they are going to respond negatively to every claim.

BTW I am not defending their practices, I just understand the issue from their perspective.

But what really frosts my cookies is when the product has a declared value (paid insurance) and then the shipping company refuses to pay the claim when they LOOSE the package .... like I routinely pay to ship stuff back and forth across the country and falsely overvalue the goods in hope the shipping company will loose the package.

Like I previously stated, I just self-insure my packages and pray for the best.

odd that so many people have had insurance difficulties. I had a package insured for $25 (some clothing my mom sent me), and it got stolen from the mail area of my apartment complex. We have secured boxes, but the post lady leaves our packages just sitting outside of the door because the boxes aren't big enough. I found the ripped open envelope under a bush near the door, brought it into the post office with the original purchase receipts for the items, and got my money back. It was a pretty simple process, but maybe that is because my item wasn't worth too much.

As for the OP, she definitely needs the original purchase receipt from her dad. I've never heard of the "intentional" pre-requisite for claiming on insurance.

Also, to other commenters: USPS stamps items with "fragile" for you, and they even ask if anything inside is fragile. I don't know how the packages are handled, but I will say that nothing labeled fragile has ever broken on me. Agreed with using styrofoam for packing -- I use leftover pieces (that I dumpster dive) to make box reinforcements for shipping, and it's much nicer than bubble wrap.

@Leah:

Yes, small claims by casual customers will often be paid their insurance claims. It looks good and generates good PR. And many big companies that have their own inhouse legal department (think Amazon, Newegg et al) to pursue claims will be willingly paid because of the cost of litigation to the shipping company.

Moderate size shippers are going to be paperworked to death until we go away. SOP. The shipping company's claims departments know the cost of processing a claim by a merchant/shipper is often far greater than the value of the claim. Increase our costs and we can seldom afford to pursue the claim.

How bad is the paper work process?

I have had a claim denied because the running SUBTOTAL on page 39 of a 119 page manufacturer invoice was smeared.

Picky Sheit.

I self insure. Screw'em. They don't get my insurance money and I am a lot happier for it.

Eight years ago I worked for a Postal workers union. I was sent across the country for several months on assignment. The cheap place I worked for insisted that if I wanted a computer there, I had to use my personal computer.

They packed it for me, insured it, and sent it by usps next day. It arrived broken. No problem right- it was insured, and packaged by actual postal workers. Claim denied.

Because they could not find any damaged corners on the box.

I appealed, the President of the union made calls- even a VP of the worked on the appeal, making calls to get this paid. No dice. I followed up for three years, through two different Postmasters General. Even the post office could not get through to the post office.
Everyone along the way was shocked, said how unfair it was, but nobody could get the thing paid for. The amount in question was only $600, a lot of money to me then (and now).

This is not a new thing with the USPS. It has been going on for years. I think it was even a Seinfeld episode.