Wait, my mouse needs to put on her reading glasses to see that one!

YIKES!

That is just ridiculous.

What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away.

This is a no-brainer. Very simple - read the "fine print," then go somewhere else. And, let the appropriate consumer agencies know.

Isn't there some stipulation that it has to be "clearly posted" to be enforceable? I would argue that that is not at all clearly posted.

I suspect this is a low-profit promotion decided at the corporate level.

Since the note is hand written, I suspect it's the local manager (franchisee?) trying to avoid people who say no ice to get more soda.

The post makes no mention if the Joanne tried to contact corporate. They might be upset to learn that at the store level their promotion is being modified.

This is similar to McDonalds insisting on $1.00 beverages and value items over protests of franchisees.

Here's the contact info from Hagen Dazs' website: [www.haagen-dazs.com]

Haagen-Daz is pretty good about protecting their brand; you think corporate would bring the hammer down on them?

What if she asked for 1/2 ice? Would that be pro-rated? While the legality may be in question, it is no-doubt a shady practice. They should have added another sign about the no ice policy instead if trying to fit it on the very bottom of the original sign.

I'm not sure that they would need to list a no ice surcharge on the sign. Sure, most places let you order no ice, but I can't believe they are required too.

On the other hand, I would have asked for easy ice or something to try to get more than 2 oz of drink.

Easy squeezy: order your drink with a single piece of ice.

Haagen-Dazs Coprorate probably made the sign, sent out the sign, asked the sign to be posted...but this store manager decided $1.00 was too cheap for a whole cup of soda.

I may be wrong but I thought the markup on soda was something like 500% anyways, which is why sit-down restaurants give you free refills and nice waiters/waitresses sometimes don't bother to charge you if they're looking for a bigger tip.

I know in PA it's illegal to quote a price "Including tax". Is that the case in NY too, and as such, isn't that a bigger problem that really tiny small print?

Ask for the drink with no ice then when they hand it to you and ask for $2 tell them to put some ice in it and charge you only $1.

Considering the cost of the syrup vs. the cost of running the ice machine, is it really that much more expensive to give the extra 2 cups of soda?

@SkokieGuy: Agreed - report it to the franchisor. They are going to be a lot more concerned with franchisee violations, which is what this looks like, than the appropriate state agency, and the upside is the complainant is pretty likely to get coupons for free stuff or at least decent discounts.

Ice is cheaper than soda. Haven't you ever noticed that the large drink you order at most places is almost all ice? Chains figure that kind of stuff into their profit margins and act accordingly.

Wonder how they would have reacted if she just said, "Only a little ice, please." She's still getting ice. Just not much of it.

I presume that these were fountain drinks which makes it even more of a slap to the face. Fountain drinks are nothing more than the syrup, some CO2, and the local water supply. As I recall from my food service days (and this may have changed) the profit margin on those is pretty damned hefty.

I dunno where it is now, but I thought I read an article about how the cost of making the ice (water plus energy to freeze it) costs more than the actual soda portion of a soft drink, making fun of how franchises seem to try to short customers by packing on the ice. So basically, this manager trying to charge more for more soda would have actually saved money by allowing no-ice-soda for $1. I'll see if I can find the article...

That's crazy. When I worked in a place that served drinks like this, our management told us that the ice and paper cup cost more than the drink itself.

A customer asking for a drink with no ice was actually a more profitable sale.

@rb1971: I second that.

That is so stupid. That just sounds like one stupid manager thinking he is a burly proprietor trying to invent some "clever" rule to boost the bottom line. Idiots like that just don't realize that the prices are set the way they are for a reason and that changing things and adding mindless small print like that actually pisses people off.

I take soda pretty seriously, so this sign disturbs me on several levels. Can you ask for "light ice" instead of "no ice"? Will they charge you double then? I hate when a place overloads my drink with ice - especially if they don't have refills.

@quail: Fountain soda is also pretty cheap as well. I don't remember the exact cost, but I believe it is less than 1 cent per ounce. It is by far the most profitable of all fast food items.

That's funny. I wonder what ethnicity the owners are, or the majority of their customers are. Indian? Not to be stereotyping, but when I used to work as a waiter for several years, I particularly remember Indian customers always ordering "coke, with no ice." But we never had a problem with that request. No ice? no problem. Go figure.

@harvey_birdman_attorney_at_law: In the world of accounting it's the syrup, water, CO2, and cup that gets tracked. Ice is a fudged concept who's true cost is hidden in the over all water and electrical bill, and machine maintenance. As far as that cup of soda goes the cost of ice isn't worried with.

Helpful handbooks that consumers (those of you on the outside ;) )can scan through for these types of situations
NIST HB130 (Uniform Laws and Regulations in the Areas of Legal Metrology and Engine Fuel Quality)
NIST HB44 (Specifications, Tolerances, and Other Technical Requirements for Weighing and Measuring Devices)
NIST SP 1020 Series (Consumer Packaging Labeling Guides)

all can be found here; [ts.nist.gov]

In addition, each state has its own Weights and Measures law that usually adopts one or all of these in some form. For example, New York's info is here; [www.agmkt.state.ny.us] and the person in charge is;
Ross J Andersen, Director
New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets
Bureau of Weights and Measures
10B Airline Drive
Albany, NY 12235
(518) 457-3146 or FAX (518) 457-5693
He is very knowledgeable and approachable.

@dieselman8: You speculation on the ethnicity of either the owner of customers is so wrong.

You ARE stereotyping.

I you wish to study ayurvedic medicine, you'll understand that the temperature of food of beverages is a health issue and not related to being cheap or trying to scam someone.

personally, i dislike the way ice waters down the soda, and how it hits your teeth when you drink. so i whenever i order a drink i always ask for no ice. as for the sign, it says 22oz of soda for $1. the buyer should expect 22oz of soda if they want it. in most cases, shops located in mall food courts usually charge higher prices.

@dieselman8: I dunno about ethnicity, but I know that a nutritionist friend of mine never gets ice in her drinks, because in the course of her studies, she found out that the ice machines are never cleaned, and are therefore by far the dirtiest places in restaurants (sit down and fast food), and best breeding grounds for all types of bacteria. As in worse than a toilet bowl.

So there are other reasons to not want ice :p

Also - who in the hell gets ice in their juice?

Ice machines do get cleaned. The problem is that this is an issue at all. I do agree that they are probably trying to make a buck by packing it with ice and use as little soda as possible, but its soda. If they water down your cancer medication, complain.

Agreement with steveliv: the sign clearly states that you get a "large 22oz" juice or soda. Unless "special" means "ice to the top" that's deceptive advertising no matter how you slice it.

@BloggyMcBlogBlog: The last time I knew my prices in the 80's, a mega cup at the movie theatre cost the company around $0.16 for the cup and soda. They sold that mega cup for around $3.00 (80's remember). At the time, the cost of ice was negligible. Someone told me it cost a penny to fill five cups with ice or some such thing.

I know that those numbers are no longer applicable. Business accounting and real world, societal accounting are different things. I wouldn't doubt that in the real world giving a full cup of ice is a monetary and ecological waste vs. giving a cup of soda with no ice.

Its really deceptive advertising as it was written on by hand and could easily be modified at any time. They have a reasonable complaints, as from the distance the picture shows, you are not even able to see a possible "fine print" which is typically required.

Most people don't stand right up at a poster to read them. This places need to clearly make it bigger and easier to see. Even being up close it is hard to make out, what about people with bad vision? The sign needs to be clear to everyone for it to apply to everyone.

As always, this is their attempt to overfill your drink with too much ice and not enough soda or juice, nothing more, nothing less.

@BloggyMcBlogBlog: Same thing with coffee if I remember correctly.

The local Cumby's gas station sells 32 oz cups you can fill yourself with either ICEEs or soda for just $0.79.

@scoosdad: Except the customer who has to come back and order a second drink because the first didn't have enough sugar water is the even more profitable customer. But really I agree with you. Just serve the drink w/o ice.

This reminds me of the story i read on consumerist of the guy who ordered a drink with no ice and got half a glass full. the manager refused to give him more saying that the amount was the same as he would have received with ice. either way, maybe ask for little ice. I have gone to places that i know cram as much ice as possible and have had no problems when i ask for only a little. They fill it up halfway and i still get a full drink.

@dieselman8:
A lot of Indian people come to the United States after living in the UK. In the UK, as with the rest of Europe, ice is generally not served with cokes. They are simply ordering what they used to. Hell, I lived in London for about a year and got used to cokes without ice, but with lemon, so that's they way I order them.

I've never been to India, but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't serve ice with cokes there either.

Americans use scandalous amounts of ice in their beverages compared to people elsewhere.

Just say "two ice cubes please."

Instead of putting up any fine print about additional cost for no ice, why don't they make the assertion at the time of sale that a drink is defined as a 22 oz cup, ice, and beverage. No one can argue that a reasonable person would assume other wise. If you don't like it, take your business else where.

While the sign isn't the most forthcoming, the employee did warn the person first, so I really can't fault the store for being deceptive.

That can't include orange juice or you'd be charged $12 for no ice (at least how most places do it).

My brothers and I ran a concession stand at a baseball park when we were teens. We hated the "no ice" people, not because it cost more, but because they thought they were getting over on us (back when 8 oz. of soda cost you 15 cents to buy).

Next time beat him at his own game. Ask for "light ice" or "very little" ice. That way there is technically "ice" in the drink.

@RandomHookup: Actually the employee did NOT warn the customer first. The customer only found out when he presented a dollar to pay for the beverage. As the post states:

"I asked for a large root beer with no ice.....When I gave the owner a dollar for payment, he said it cost more with no ice."

(Some) Thai restaurants in Atlanta do this all the time. Order your Thai tea with no ice and you get a smaller glass for the same price as the bigger glass with ice. they seem to think you are trying to get more to drink. I get cold easily so I never want ice in anything. it's a little offensive to be treated that way.

What's really awful is that 22 ounces of soda probably costs them next to nothing to dispense so even @ $1.00 for an actual 22 ounces they're probably making 200-300% profit based on the cost of syrup.

With juice they might have a point but carbonated soda is NEVER a high expense - especially for franchises since they tend to sign exclusive dispensing deals (that's why you can only get coke OR pepsi but never both at a fountain).

Additionally you might be better off ordering a bottled beverage in most places anyway. When I worked in the food industry, one of the least cleaned & maintained areas was the soda fountains/ice machine. And just because they may wipe down the dispenser pumps so they look clean doesn't mean they are clean - mildew loves to show up on and in syrup tubes and ice racks and I have yet to see anyone make those a priority on any cleaning list.

She needs to take a container with her that will measure ounces. Pour the soda, without the ice, into the measuring container. If it is not 22 ounces, they need to make up the difference. They are selling soda, not ice.

@BeeBoo: Most drinks are dispensed cold anyway. I ALWAYS ask for no ice.

Occasionally I will get a warm drink but, eh...it's worth it.