You would think that if you review guns, that you would know better than to reload used ammo.

You would think, right?

So for once, people who blamed the OP were right? :)

To f3rr37:

That bloody hand was YOUR bad, sir.And well deserved based on the report.

Wow. We really should have blamed the consumer.

Sooooo we *can* blame the consumer? Excellent!

Seriously thou, just because you can buy a reloader for cheap doesn't mean you should. I read the original thread and that guy was fully convinced it was NOT his fault...and yet...it was. That was a hell of a hot-load if it was 2x the limit!

I buy new ammunition for everything I own (too lazy to reload). I suspect that I *may* have to start reloading in another 10 years for a few of my guns that are WWII-era...or I may just put them on the wall, who knows.

I wonder if he owes them for the replacement FiveseveN?

@11hawkinst: Ammo can get pretty expensive, and there's nothing inherantly bad about reloading... IF YOU DO IT RIGHT. If he was a reviewer, maybe he got cavalier about doing his reloads and wasn't paying attention to the grains of powder, or he mixed up batches, or whatever. In either case, guns/ammo + not paying attention = disaster, as always.

Is there a reason why only once the serial was x'ed out?

Anyone with half a head of grey matter knows that reloads in tupperwear guns are the leading cause of a KaBOOM.

Here we have the most basic warning regarding ammunition. If you pack your own cartridges, please ensure that you know what the hell you’re doing. Armed forces personnel will sometimes receive training in this, but otherwise, only professionals and those trained by them should attempt this.

I'd just like to gloat by pointing out that I was the first to point the finger at his use of reloads, at least on Consumerist.

[sprains shoulder while attempting to pat self on back]

Nice call... reloading can be done right, but as with anything there is the opportunity for error. I think the guy lucked out with a relatively minor injury and the gun company did a nice investigative job.

Coming from someone who knows their guns, reloaded ammo is not necessarily a bad thing. Competition shooters (like those who do high accuracy, long distance shooting) reload their own ammo so they can give the highest quality possible. For example, the reloader can put in a precise amount of powder to aid in consistency between shots. I will say though that this guy is likely reloading to save on cash more than anything else.

Reading the email, FN found that the round was mistakenly "double-charged" which meant that he screwed up by adding twice the amount of powder. He was obviously not attentive at his reloader. The majority of reloaded rounds do go out fine, you just need to pay attention while you are making them.

In all, I would hesitate to say that one of the morals to this story is to never use reloaded ammo, but to ensure you can guarantee its quality (either by being attentive at your own work, or know the work of whoever did it).

Everyon in favor of letting the OP pack his own parachute, say "aye!"

I think that one of the issues is that with this particular type of firearm, reloading should be avoided. The pressures in the Five-seven cartridge are a lot higher than in, say, a .38 special or .45 ACP. There's not as much margin for error with those pressures, and with a polymer gun, there's just not a lot of material between the cartridge and your hand.

I have shot some reloaded rounds my uncle made on the range before with a .30-06, worked great. But with semi-automatic handgun? I don't know if I'd ever do it.

Ben, I know you don't want us to do it anymore, but has a story ever been more deserving of an "lol" more than this one?

However, in all seriousness, this only gives credence to the skeptics who, without warrant, berate OPs in every thread.

Who would have thought that making your own ammunition could go totally wrong? Maybe I should stop blow drying my hair and making toast in the bath, because you just never know.

doesn't know how to make his own bullets...pfft...

I'm not really all that surprised. This is just one of many stories you hear about gun owners harming themselves after making a mistake, since almost any mistake involving a gun is either lethal or very painful. It's good to know that with a little prodding the manufacturer decided to investigate to make sure that the gun wasn't defective (even going so far as to induce catastrophic failure in several test guns, Mythbusters style) and it's also good to know that the customer is willing to face facts and realize that he placed too much powder in the cartridge.

I, personally, only use ammunition purchased at the range, and it's never repacked by me. That way if a gun ever blows up and I survive, the person responsible will be obvious and not me.

stick to your zip guns if you're going to do a half-assed job

Lesson 3: Don't simply post a story just because it sounds horrific.

(The above is constructive advice, and shouldn't violate Consumerist's new anti-dissing-editors policy.)

There's nothing wrong with reloading ammo, if done wisely, correctly and diligently. It looks like the guy double-charged his loads - that is, threw powder twice into the same case. That's one of those "correctly and diligently" items. I only use powders that take up more than 50% of the case capacity and visually check every case to ensure no double-charges.

And for the record, I've had exactly 3 faulty rounds made by myself out of about 12,000 rounds made (I shoot a lot). I've also purchased about 10,000 rounds, and have found 60 or so faulty rounds from the manufacturer. So buying someone else's product, as we learn every day on this website, is no guarantee of quality or safety.

@krom:

I think you are off a bit though. The original article was about how the manufacturer failed to follow up as they had promised the consumer. "Five-seveN said they were sending out a pre-paid packing slip for the gun and would inspect it, destroy it, and give f3rr37 a "deep discount" on a new gun. A month later, none of these promises have materialized."

I think the original and this followup are well within what we should expect the Consumerist to post.

F3rr37 was claiming that the problem was an inherent design flaw in the product itself. FNH probably knew that what he was saying was untrue, but 1) since he was making the claim, which could have wide-sweeping consequences for all of that model that are distributed, and 2) because he was injured as a result, there could serious legal consequences.

In such a case, people at every level were probably prohibited from talking with the individual in order to limit their liability/damage their case in any future legal proceedings. I mean, the guy's hand was blown up by their gun!

This guy went out the games blaming the company, talking about faulty product design and the cost of medical bills, and that will trigger FNH to instantly get their lawyers in a row and not move a muscle until they say so.

When f3rr37 says "All I want is for them to admit fault and that their product has a design flaw", that statement alone can have millions of dollars worth of consequences. It's a terribly stupid demand to make, and one that any company will fight back in court. This is especially true for a product like a firearm, which undergoes extensive product testing and QA, and where a product fault can carry mortal consequences.

FNH conducted additional testing and blew up several of their products to verify their findings. Laboratory testing takes time. It doesn't surprise me at all that they took months to conclude.

I'm not going to knock him for not buying factory ammo, that can get very expensive. I'm also not going to knock the guy for messing up a reload. If you are not paying careful attention, a double charge can be very easy to do, especially on some of the cheaper "semi automated" reloading setups.

On cheaper presses, the operator is responsible for advancing the cartridge after each oepration. A momentary distraction from a phone call or a needy child is all it takes to lose your focus.

It would be interesting to see if FN makes him return the new gun.

For all his tech talk about how he "knows" guns and said it was a design flaw, he sure forgot to mention the fact that he used his own ammo with double th powder..

So let me get this strait.

This guy reloaded his ammo

When he tried to fire it, the gun "exploded"

At this point this guy does not even think his ammo might be the issue and escalates this story all over the internet and such - making the gun maker seem like they are making bad equipment.

Much later, it finally comes out he was using reloaded ammo, and he accepts that as a reason.

It was 100% the guys fault, and the gun maker has suffered from bad news stories - if I was the gun maker, I would be suing this person for all the negative stories about their product because of the guys stupidity.

@coan_net: In his origional forum post he started off by blocking people saying he did a double-load, he posted: "I did not double charge this load, everything was well within specifications."

As with a lot of hobbies people get into: he thought himself an expert and when he blew himself up there's no way he could of conceived it was his fault.

my 2nd thought, could someone use a scale to weight their reloaded ammo to detect a problematic bullet?

Am I the only person who is bothered by the capital N at the end of the company name?

@outinthedark: Standard practice for privacy.

What "N" at the end of company name are you referring to?

The information on "reloaded ammo" would have given better insight. 5.7x28mm ammo is difficult to reload like 40 cals as the jacket is frail. Lesson learned.....I wondered if they are going to take the gun back now.

I haven't had any issues with my FiveSeven and this story really scared me at first.

What "N" at the end of company name are you referring to?

From the post above all these comments, we can find several examples:

Lead sentence:
The makers of Five-seveN handguns finished

From the manufacturer's response:

Subject: Five-seveN serial # 386102425

The following conclusions are results from FNH USA's evaluation of the Five-seveN serial #

The design of the Five-seveN pistol,

It is FNH USA's finding that the catastrophic failure of Five-seveN #38610xxxx

Please be aware that the owner's manual for the Five-SeveN handgun

IF you reload correctly you can save money by reloading. BUT NEVER NEVER NEVER use reloaded ammo in a home defense handgun. You open yourself up for a lawsuits. I carry a handgun EVERYDAY. Although I am no longer a cop, I still have a CCW permit and carry a 9mm or .45 everyday. Reloading is something that I don't have time to do correctly right now so I don't do it.

Double the amount of powder?

Yeesh...

@Bender: That's why you need to stick with Dillion.

@TeraGram: I imagine so, because the company's name is Fabrique Nationale de Herstal (FNH) and doesn't end with an N.

If anyone's wondering, the price of one of these handguns at a larger retailer was around $990 as of this past Saturday. At that pricetag, FNH has a lot to protect.

FToriginalA: F3rr37 pledges, "Until they make this right, I will never buy another FN product again and will continue to share my experience with what happens when a FiveseveN fires out-of-battery.

Using his own standard of conduct, he has an absolute obligation to go to every thread he posted on and to tell everyone that it was not the fault of the manufacturer, and that his weapon did not fire out-of-battery but in fact misfired because ammo that he had made incorrectly misfired.

The manufacturer eventually went beyond any reasonable expectations on this, as they were in no way obligated to hand out a new firearm over this.

Thanks for the follow up, editors. I often wonder about one story or another and how they played out. Good to see that this was resolved to the satisfaction of everyone.

guns don't kill people. monkeys kill people. if they have a gun.

@newfenoix: Yea but the serial is written out 5 other times in the letter..? Or am I not reading something correctly.

you forgot:

0. if you really know what you're doing, you won't try to make your own bullets in the first place.

It's odd that someone, as careless as he was, would be given another firearm. Especially since he aready injured him self with it...

Was it his fault? Yes. Most gun manufacturers do not warranty firearms that have been fired using reloaded ammo for this reason.

On the other hand, I do think FNH's design suffers. The handguns failure point isn't quite safe. It seems to direct pressure in the event of a failure down and into the hand of the shooter. It doesn't seem like a logical design.

Many other handguns are designed with the potential for failure in mind. The FNH Five-seveN doesn't appear to have been.

Sounds like FNH pwned him with their fancy science

Perhaps it's time for Consumerist to take on an ombudsman? The increasing volume of OP-was-in-the-wrong posts suggests such. I love this site, and believe it provides a valuable forum, but as it becomes polluted with erroneous reports (which credulous commenters are quick to support), its credibility is damaged. I know that the purpose of the original article was to address FNH's lack of customer support, and not the actual equipment malfunction, but it is nonetheless a mistake to put the weight of the site behind a customer who is in the wrong, especially when the reporting is largely based upon the claims of this customer.

He's lucky it was only minor damage to his hand! In Vietnam the US planted reloaded ammo that blew the recievers through peoples faces.

He's lucky it was only minor damage to his hand! In Vietnam the US planted reloaded ammo that blew the reciever through people faces.

^^ Sorry. Browser crashed!

@secretoftheeast: Competition shooters will load their own rounds, but I doubt that they use reloads.

Lets get somethings straight here, there is a difference between loading your own rounds and reloading. Too often people are using the word reload improperly. I have always used the term reload (and it should be still used this way in my opinion) with the meaning that they are using spent cartridges, and reloading the bullet, gunpowder and a new primer.

Therefore saying that competition shooters use reload in my opinion is incorrect. They load their own rounds, but I doubt they use reloads.

The consumer didn't actually deserve anything in this case. This is the equivalent of running your new Camry into a brick wall and Toyota giving you a new one.