I awoke this morning to find a dead man on my doorstep, apparently from the gunshot wound to his back. By examining the depth of the tread marks and the streak of blood on the walls, I determined that he had dragged himself up after receiving the fatal bullet. I cleaned up the pool of blood with some extra-thirsty Brawny towels, and rifled the pockets of his black trench coat to find a package addressed to “The Consumerist.” A hastily scrawled coversheet read, “Please keep my identity secret, I could lose my job. I have compiled a “10 Norton/Symantec secrets I shouldn’t be telling you” list.” Too late. Someone already punched his pink slip. Let’s read what was inside…
10. You can always install the product on twice as many computers as stated in the EULA. This is enforced via the backend and a grace number is allowed.
9. If you ask for a refund, Symantec will probably give it. If your order is more than 60 days old, Symantec may have to cut you a check, but odds are good Symantec will give you your money back.
8. When you get a order refunded, the product/entitlement/subscription is not disabled on the backend. You can continue to use your product as normal without any consequences.
7. We enroll you into our Automatic Renewal service on the http://www.symantecstore.com without giving you the chance to opt-out of enrollment during the purchase process. You have to access the link in the email we send you to disable this enrollment.
6. Customer Support in India is the best thing that has ever happened to Norton/Symantec . They take 1+ million calls a month. Prior to outsourcing, the most calls per month was less than 100k. You may hate the accent, but they do great work.
5. We know the performance of our product sucks. This has been an engineering priority for 3 continuous years, progress is being made.
4. You don’t have to “upgrade” to get upgrade pricing. From the http://www.symantecstore.com website, select upgrade and you will pay a reduced price for the upgrade. You may be asked for prior proof of purchase, but you don’t have to provide it.
3. When you upgrade from product X to Product Y, product y Does not inherit the subscription time from product X. Calling Support and asking to have the time transferred will provide you with this extra time.
2. Symantec support agents will do whatever it takes to make you happy. This includes giving away free things. We can give free shipping, eliminate processing fees and do price matching as needed. Just ask for it.
1. With the right search engine, you can find coupon codes to buy Symantec software for free. The store website has coupon codes, every company needs codes to test with, some are easily guessable.
BONUS: Here’s the Complete Norton Symantec Executive Contact List
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Avast! works well and is free without doing anything ethically questionable as this article suggests.
When OS X is used by more than just trendy hipsters it will become targeted.
Th site needs a button to flag offensive articles as well as comments.
A software theft Howto?
Thx for the info never knew some of these (haven’t really used symantec/nortan things EVER really…) At school this year I was doing a mentoring program with symantec and got to visit their building at the end and talk to some of the people they all seemed really nice but i still dont really like their software >.>
I haven’t used one of their products (or any other virus protection) on my personal machines for almost 5 years. Never had a virus. Obsolete. SP2, using web-based email, google toolbar and an updated browser with a little tiny bit of common sense will keep anyone out of trouble. And all of those things should be done for just function sake long before thinking about viruses.
@pianos101:
A: [www.zdnet.com.au]
B: [www.boygeniusreport.com]
Also OSX is BSD; I know that the differences seem slight but they are relevant. BSD is not as actively developed as linux these days (at least in the opensource market) its mostly a Cupertino thing now.
Number 8 is not true for retail purchased products
@balthisar: I meant Unix. OS X is based off of FreeBSD, with the “Aqua” GUI added on top by Apple.
@jimv2000: I guess you’re not familiar with OS X. Programs like “screensaver” don’t work like that. You don’t usually “install” programs like you do in windows (there’s no registry, no .dll crap, etc). Usually you just download an “application” and drag the app file to your HDD and it’s done. You know what you’re getting. I don’t know how else to explain it…
@Nyle: what does that mean? Does that mean that OS X is slower than windows? Than vista??? haha I mean xp runs faster on my MBP than it did on any pc i’ve ever had (including my dual-core 3.2GHz Xenon with 4GB of RAM that I use at work).
@x40sw0n: Have you read either of those articles, or did you just look at the sensationalistic headlines? Both of those “attacks” were done under very closed environments, like letting the hacker make user name/pwd, having the root of the OS open, etc. And if these were windows computer they would’ve been hacked in about 1/1,000th of the time so I’m not quite sure what your point is. Is anything completely foolproof? No, but safer is safer. And easier to use. And less worrisome about stupid things going wrong.
Long story as short as possible. I was a Norton Antivirus user when, a few years back, my ISP started to offer it free to its customers (they cut a massive licensing agreement somehow.)
There was about a month left in my current license so I uninstalled my own copy and installed from the link my ISP supplied – confirming I was now renewing on their nickel.
3 weeks later I got an email from Symantec saying they’d charged renewal of my original license as per my agreement (#7 above). I checked and, yes, I’d never opted out. After following the link and opting out, I got on the phone to their call centre.
After explaining my problem to the fellow(*) I said I was the one who screwed up but asked him to make sure I’d successfully closed that account. After a few minutes he said “Yes, and I’ve reversed the charge on the license.” Happy customer me.
(*) Yes, he had an accent but nothing anyone who’d lived ANYWHERE multicultural would even notice. I’ve had more trouble with Maine’s “down east” accent. OH, those vowels, I swear.
Here is another…
When your update subscription expires dont pay for another year, just uninstall the software and install it again and you will have a year of free updates again.
Coupon codes I get, but isn’t number 8 theft? If you’re going to return something and get your money back, stop using the software.
Aren’t there comparable, free, legal alternatives?
That’s like buying the rock-salt/ice/pumpkins outside a grocery store, returning it, then loading up on the stuff outside again because it’s not ‘secured.’
If you’re in the Military, you get a full copy for free for each computer you use at home.
Yeah forget Symantec. So does the whole “dead man” thing mean this guy got fired for talking to you?
I hate Symantec and McAfee antivirus software so much that I won’t use it even though I can get it for free. I’m MUCH happier paying the $30 or so a year to use NOD32, a far superior product that is both more secure and more efficient (so no slowdowns).
The most important thing to remember about Symantec is that their products are bloated kluge ware to be avoided like the plague.
Just try CLEANLY uninstalling any of their products and see what is left behind.
Just about any anti-virus product on the market is better than Symantec’s crap.
Thanks for the information about the “automatic” renewal process. I just filled in their web form to opt out of that.
I actually got my Norton AV for free, and i would hate to see it auto renewed. Its bad as it is.!
10. Why?
9. That sounds like a no brainer. Kinda like returning stuff at Target.
8. Again, why? When I sold my house, I had to move out. When one gets a refund of a service, she is not prevented to use that service anymore? Isn’t that a symptom of the poor back end management? You don’t because you can’t?
7. Girls Gone Wild do the same thing.
6. Does it mean that 900,000 calls were left unanswered? I’d rather have 1 million calls served in the US if I had a choice. “Thank you for calling American Express, my name is Ravindra”
5. Nice PR. We know we suck. We’ve been working on it for 3 years. We still suck. I’m willing to bet this is not such a high priority.
4. 3. 2. meh
1. You don’t even have to bother. Buy, install, get a refund, use forever.
0. Just like Windows, being one of the biggest name in the business ensures that every even half ass piece of malware/virus will be written to bypass/disable/kill Norton AV.
@pianos101: Mac and Linux users are more likely to have serious damage done to their files by a virus than Windows users. Why? That attitude towards security. There are Mac and Linux viruses out there, but most users think that their OS is safe because it isn’t Windows. False senses of security are dangerous.
@Con Seannery: There are actually no viruses for OS X that have ever maliciously infected an OS X computer. I think you might be thinking of trojans or worms, which do exist, but require a LOT more invasive practice to get installed on OS X. The user always knows what is currently asking to be installed and there is absolutely no way around this.
[theappleblog.com]
[search.mcafee.com]
Let me know when you find a real virus that’s a REAL threat to OS X. Not a “proof-of-concept” vulnerability.
The one thing they neglect to mention is that it does have a back door for viruses to get in and kill your system. And that its almost impossible to uninstall completely at least the older versions were not sure on the newer ones though.
This is coming from a Certified PC tech who knows his stuff.
My advice stay away……
There are better cheaper antivirus programs that work much better.
@rdldr1:
” Norton products are a resource hog”
How true. And I had a friend who had purchased and upgrade over the net and didn’t have a clue how to actually get it installed, I managed to help her install AVG and get a refund.
Norton used to be good – 10 years ago – now it’s bloatware.
@Con Seannery: Your assertion would only hold water if there was a single virus in the wild for either OSX or Linux. There are none.
Linux = Best antivirus ever!!
LOL @ windows users. You clueless bunch. Get a real OS.
the thing that makes me the most upset is number 8, they know their product sucks. why do you make all these outrageous claims on the box about “safer browsing” and “better performance” if apparently, it’s all a downright lie?
thank god i’m on a mac…but when i had a pc I would never give into that system-slowing norton. avg antivirus FTW!
oops, it was number 5 where they say their product sucks
@Ein2015: I second Avast (Virus scan program_) it is FREE and highly rated at Cnet. Go too http://www.download.com (Cnet’s site) and download avast (you can read reviews on it there too). Also download “Advanced WindowsCare Personal” to do the rest of the system maintenance.
I had Norton every year for about 10 years just because I didn’t know any better. Every single year, upgrading was a big PITA and something ALWAYS got screwed up. I then realized I had been paying for something that most people get FREE from trusted sources (Avast & WindowCare).
Oh and another thing about Symantec…last year the download didn’t even WORK at all, so I had to go through the whole nightmare of contacting them (it’s like dealing with AOL when people still used them) to refund me so I could just go buy the read cd at BJ’s. Had to call back and explain the whole thing to four people before I was finally “assured” I would receive my refund. Sure enough I was charged anyway, and finally gave up (as they were hoping) because life was just too d@mn short to deal with them anymore
Their call centers take a million plus calls because they hang up on customers when (a) they can’t understand or who can’t understand them, or (b) they can’t solve the problem. Go ahead, ask for a supervisor and wait for the *click*!
*cough*
OSX/Hovdy-A Trojan Targets Mac Platfor
TheOSX/Hovdy-A Trojan horse is capable of infecting Mac OS X computers, in an attempt to steal passwords, open firewall to give access to hackers, and disable security settings.
Agent.BKY
iPod Linux Virus
TI.Tigraa.a
SB.Badbunny
WH/Vred.A
Zhelatin/Storm
IM-Worm:W32/Skipi.A
MSN Trojan
etc…
The list may be small, but so is the 8% market share of mac os x users.
Slightly off topic, for those who think they’re smart, OS X is not Linux, it’s Unix. Linux has too many distros and too many options for it to be worthwhile to try to hack, yes it can be done, but it presents very few targets with too many different weak points. OS X has just as many weaknesses as Windows. Sorry, it’s true. The reason it rarely gets attacked is purely because of market share, if/when Apple is on top of the world, it will become a target, and it will be the same risk that Windows is. In my network security classes one of our labs was to “crack a Mac”, wasn’t hard, but with less people owning Mac’s than Windows boxes, it’s just not worth the time.
@ogman: Sounds like they operate under the AOL, Sprint PCS, and Time Warner Cable school of training and hateful attitude toward the customer
I had a pc for many years. No viruses, only spyware, so all the anti-virus was a waste of money, since anti-spyware stuff was free. And was in college for three for those years (read: much downloading and emailing) and I still never got a virus.
why did someone bring up Macs here? this conversation doesnt really relate
@pianos101: As a Win XP user, I also don’t have any antivirus software, since I always work with limited-priviledges. Windows is just as secure as Unix, all that’s needed is some common sense. You wouldn’t want to run a Unix system with root priviledges either.
Regarding program/application installations, I think you are mistaken – certainly, there IS more than simply copying files. For instance, many applications are actually services (or daemons in the Unix parlor), or require such. To run them in the background whenever you start your computer you definitely need to “register” something, or whatever it may be called. The drag-and-drop feature, the one where drag an app to your HDD, is an visual candy – as a user you are simply shielded from what’s actually going on. It’s the same thing like when you drag an item to the trash bin – a mount/unmount command is called underneath.
@pianos101: Reminds me of customers who come into our store and say, “What do you mean the hard drive crashed? I bought a Mac because it’s supposed to be crash proof!”
Riiiighhht…
This article seems like advertisement to me.
Norton slows down the computer, AVG is free and much better.
FYI if you ever have to uninstall NAV from a machine, the password is… “symantec” (no quotes).
I’ve been in IT for a long time. I’ve made more than my fair share of calls for technical support. Sometimes I get an Indian call center employee who has an accent too thick to cut through. This is different from the mid 90′s when I’d be talking to someone in Louisiana or Arkansas with an accent too thick to cut through how?
@MorrisseyTheCat: Exactly!
It’s nice running operating systems that don’t need anti-virus protection.
@pianos101 & HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak: I thought I remembered some report a few months back regarding a virus with OS X, regardless, IF one were to be made, there would be much more vulnerability to the users of the OS it was made for.
Symantec has always had a bigger budget for R&D than all the other companies *combined*. The new 2008 product(s) are far from sucking, they’re still pretty good at protecting. I’ve seen machines loaded with AVG and the others, with 3 or more active viruses. The one complaint about Symantec from an support standpoint is their new ‘Norton Priority Support’ , (Pay Symantec for “personal attention”) campaign. Almost everything referencing virus protection and identification has been removed from the symantec website. Now the inference is that Symantec products are so good, that it isn’t possible that you have a virus, so it must be that you need ‘Norton Priority Support’. Well I’ve seen many examples of where NIS has failed the customer of late. All having to do with the relatively new invasive websites that take over customer machines. Also the lack of support for the support professional has created a rift between 3rd party support personnel and Symantec. I’ve seen this error in judgment, it is clearly Symantec’s biggest issue. The list above has been true for pretty much all of Symantec’s life. I was familiar with the Norton line before Symantec purchased them. At the moment, they’re still the best for Windows.
@pal003: Re your comment, “…since they disabled the “Ad-blocking” feature. It was the best thing I liked about their product…”
I agree – I was running the Internet Explorer browser on several machines until Norton removed ad blocking with NIS2008. When they did that, I switched the browsers over to Mozilla Firefox (very seamless) and downloaded Adblock Plus, part of the free Mozilla Firefox stuff. Bingo – back to 100% ad blocking. Also went to Mozilla Thunderbird for my e-mail.
I pick up NIS for free or cheap each year when I buy TurboTax. If they stop offering this deal, I guess I’ll have to search for coupons (#1) or go for a freebie. I know good ones are out there, as others have said in this string.
On some machines, I use the free McAfee Security Suite that comes with my Comcast high speed internet account.
Ugh. I’ve had the option to use Symantec free as both an undergraduate and graduate student, and I still prefer use the free alternatives (then AVG, now Avira). And there would be this much crap to cut through to actually get my money’s worth if I had to pay?
Post again when the next dead operative tells us know how to get paid for using Symantec’s software.
The American companies that outsource to India train the local agents to sound as American as possible, usually with disastrous results. A normal Indian accent, while rather humorous, is not that hard to understand. I emigrated to the US from India when I was 12. I spoke decent English, and lost all traces of my Indian accent within the next couple of years. I have worked for a call center(from home) for the last year and a half. I personally do get frustrated by the language deficiencies of some of my coworkers from India, many of whom have been living here a lot longer than me. I recently discovered from a Facebook page that many of them thought me to be a racist, white American. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the fact that you have an intense dislike for bizzare foreign accents does not make you a racist!
@ekthesy: You comment almost made me eject high-speed iced tea through my nose. I didn’t scroll down to see if anyone else caught your Frampton reference, but you made my evening. Thanks.
Their software SUCKS. That being said, it is currently being used on both my systems. *sigh*