Papa John's Is Taking Your Theft Seriously, And Gets Offended If You Don't Believe Them

Mark didn’t like how a Papa John’s pizza delivery guy was acting, so he paid the delivery charge but marked through the tip line on his receipt. Two days later, he discovered an extra $6.42 had been tacked on. When Mark called Papa John’s to report the theft, he spoke to someone who obviously hasn’t gotten our memo that “taking it seriously” is about as reassuring as “your call is very important to us.”

Here’s Mark’s story:

On Monday, July 28th I ordered a pizza from Papa John’s Pizza. When the delivery driver showed up, he handed me my Visa slip to sign with an ‘x’ written next to the tip line. To me calling any kind of attention to the tip line on a credit card slip is akin to holding your hand out and asking ‘where’s my tip.’ I didn’t like the presumptive tip, and had already paid an almost $2.00 “delivery charge” so I wrote a line through the tip line, rewrote the total and signed the slip.

This morning while getting ready for work, my wife informs me that Papa John’s Pizza had overcharged us by $6.42. Quite upset about Papa John’s Pizza stealing six-and-a-half dollars from me, I immediately googled Papa John’s Pizza corporate number. I was transferred to the finance department, and left a message expressing my extreme dissatisfaction. About 7 minutes later I got a call back from Papa John’s Pizza and the gentleman asked for the details of the transaction, etc. After promising the difference would be reversed to my debit card, he said that “Papa John’s takes this sort of complaint seriously.” To which of course I replied “Please do not ‘take this seriously,’ resolve the issue.” Then the Papa John’s Pizza guy got all defensive and wanted to know why I was calling him a liar. Anyway he promised to have a ‘field supervisor’ look into the situation.

If my charge was off by a dollar, say because the person keying in the charge transposed a number, I may or may not have been so upset. I would have waited until the local Papa John’s Pizza opened up and discussed the matter with local management. But I firmly believe that the delivery driver took it upon himself to give himself a 30% tip. I also wonder how many other people have been ‘fleeced’ by this driver.

I hope to email you with an update about how Papa John’s Pizza refunded the difference and took steps to show me that I am a valued customer, but the day is still young.

Well, we’re impressed that someone at Papa John’s called him back as promised, and in less than 10 minutes—that sort of thing is far too rare with many companies, and makes us think that Papa John’s actually means the phrase. But yeah, they might want to rethink using empty PR-speak if they want to reassure customers that employee theft is not tolerated. But you shouldn’t blame your customers for being skeptical when they hear that phrase—there’s a reason nobody believes it anymore.

(Photo: Getty)

Comments

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  1. B says:

    So, the OP didn’t tip because the delivery guy asked for a tip? That makes sense…. Still, theft is theft, and I hope Papa John is really taking this seriously, as it’s a serious offense by their employee.

  2. IC18 says:

    They can never overcharge when paying with CASH.

  3. nrich239 says:

    If you don’t get a satisfactory response from Papa John’s, call up Visa. They would love to take care of this for you, especially since (hopefully) you have a signed copy of the receipt showing a different total.

  4. toddkravos says:

    I can’t for the life of me find that CheckSum hack for restaurant receipts. Can you include it here? Might be helpful

    K thanks.

  5. At least they didn’t thank him for his “generous” tip.

  6. AD8BC says:

    Come on dude, he promised a refund. Then he said he would take it seriously.

    Save the sillyness until you find out he didn’t keep his promise. If he does keep his promise, he took it seriously, now didn’t he?

  7. [supportveteransinbusiness.com]

    are those guys separated at birth?

  8. I understand the tiredness of “taking it seriously”, but it sounds like the OP was kind of a dick to the guy on the phone. When presented with the problem, he said it would be debited back to his card. There didn’t seem to be a need for the rudeness.

    If they don’t debit it back, call again and be more stern.

  9. EarlNowak says:

    Charge it back. Visa will ask for the original signed slip, which
    will either have no tip or be obviously overwritten.

  10. synimatik says:

    While I don’t agree with delivery people or servers taking it upon them selves to give themselves a tip, shame on you for not tipping. That $2 charge goes to the driver for the gas he’s not being paid for. That $2 charge is dolled out to everyone because cheap, lazy bastards like you don’t tip delivery drivers. If you can’t part with another dollar or two, drive out and pick up the pizza yourself.

    I know we’re not supposed to blame the OP in here, but this is most certainly a time where he was wrong in the 1st place. He even said he wouldn’t have minded if it were off by a dollar. So tip him a dollar.

    Again, shame on you.

  11. sleze69 says:

    @AD8BC: /agree. You got a callback within *10* minutes. That’s fantastic customer service. I know you’re angry but calling out the first person who tries to rectify the situation is douchy.

    And they better take it seriously because it is theft/credit fraud.

  12. angrypants says:

    “Delivery Charge” is just that. It doesn’t all go to the driver, they get a percentage of the sale, a commision at Papa John’s that is “supposed” to pay for their gas, tires, oil changes, etc. The tip is there to take there pay rate from $6.50-$7.50 an hour to something more livable. Since this isn’t really a story about rather or not you should tip a pizza boy, I guess I should just wish you luck getting your money back.

  13. newlywed says:

    ok, to be fair…i think it’s not fair that you didn’t tip…THAT DOES NOT MAKE THE CRIME OK, but just sayin’…I don’t think the delivery man gets the fee, and they work on tips.

  14. SkokieGuy says:

    He called corporate, they promised to call back, they did, in 7 minutes, they never disputed or argued granting a refund. In this case, I think the OP is unreasonable. He is scolding PJ’s for not using the language he deems appropriate? Save the snarkiness for companies that don’t comply with reasonable requests.

    People like this are perhaps part of the reason why most CSR’s are uncaring and rude. Even when they do everything the caller wants, they still get attitude.

    What should have happened? 7 free pizzas? The CEO hand write a letter of apology?

  15. That-Dude says:

    @AD8BC: I mean the guy called him back in 7 minutes re: a 6 dollar overcharge.

    Yeah, that is serious enough for me.

  16. ratnerstar says:

    Wow, I really hate blaming the victim and all, but this guy just sounds like a jerk. He doesn’t tip because there’s an “X” next to the tip line? He’s rude to the person who calls him back right away (!!) to resolve the issue? And he’s shameless enough to brag about this behavior on Consumerist?

    To paraphrase the old joke, give him back his $6.42 and tell him to go to hell.

  17. jackal676 says:

    Yeah, so you didn’t tip because someone wrote an “X” on your receipt, and then you acted like a douche on the phone to someone who is giving you great customer service in a timely manner. Boy, I’m so sympathetic to your cause. A-hole.

    I don’t care if I’m violating the comment rules with this post. This is just stupid. Go ahead and ban me.

  18. PinkBox says:

    You don’t leave a tip to the poor pizza guy coz he left a simple X on the slip, and then get mad that that they aren’t really taking the issue seriously because they said so, even after promising to refund you?

    Uhm.

  19. ediebeale says:

    @IC18: Not helpful. I pay for a lot of things with my credit card and debit card, because I get benefits and points for each and in the case of my credit card, I pay it off in full every month. So I get free stuff. He shouldn’t be overcharged as a “punishment” for using a credit/debit card.

  20. sir_pantsalot says:

    If my charge was off by a dollar, say because the person keying in the charge transposed a number, I may or may not have been so upset.

    This guy would have lost it if they transposed a number. He seems to have been looking for any reason to get upset. Is he the kind of guy that goes to a restaurant and wants to be unhappy so he doesn’t have to give a tip?

  21. lemortede says:

    While I think what the Driver did was wrong I think that the OP is a huge douche.
    I’m not sure why this is a story since it looks like Papa Johns is taking care of it.
    Most of the drivers get paid crap and have to use their own car and pay for their own gas.
    The $2.00 delivery charge doesn’t cover that by a long shot.
    Yes they get a per mile reimbursement but come on, does that really cover anything any more.
    If your Pizza was there in the promised time you should have tipped.
    The OP seems like the kind of person who also doesn’t believe in tipping in restaurants.

  22. Coelacanth says:

    @B: The point of a tip is to reward good service. Someone demanding a tip is tactless and the opposite of good service.

    It’s a personal call, but I don’t blame the OP wishing to withhold his tip. However, he may wish to reconsider any future attempts to order from Papa John’s again unless he wants his order sabotaged.

  23. malraux says:

    My understanding is that most pizza places do not give the delivery fee to the driver, only the amount on the tip line. If Mark took the pizza without paying the delivery guy for his work, I’m not exactly clear on who stole first.

    And the x next to the tip line is probably to call attention to the line so you don’t forget to fill it in.

  24. Sugarless says:

    I don’t see the problem. They called back faster than any company I’ve ever dealt with and they said they were taking it seriously.

    His objection is about semantics. I didn’t get the impression that they weren’t going to do anything.

    This seems like a none issue, not the stealing part. I’ve had the same thing happen to me and they credited the funds back into my account. But being upset about the word choice of the person trying to help resolve the issue is just silly.

  25. blue_duck says:

    I agree with the fact that the customer was way too rude in the beginning. I understand something bad happened, but the person he had called had nothing to do with it so there is no reason to get snarky. AND he called him back in 7 minutes. Temper, temper.

  26. jamesdenver says:

    @jackal676:

    I agree. The guy sounds like a douche. The delivery guy was attempting to be as tactful as possible – probably already been screwed that night.

    We placed a Papa John’s online order last week, then realized upon delivery we had no cash in the house.

    We were headed out later than night and told the delivery guy we’d stop by the store after hitting an ATM. We did, and he was surprised that we followed through.

    Just f-ing TIP – especially if he got your pizza there on time…

  27. VicMatson says:

    When I see the “X” by the tip line I fill in an appropriate amount, not tipping is more rude. Zero(unless provoked)is in bad taste, and speaking of taste, don’t use them again, you might get montezuma’s revenge.

  28. Edge231 says:

    I agree with many posters here…the OP was indeed a turd with with phone call.

    An employee of Papa John’s stated they will look into it and you say something stupid? Why? Let them do their job first and if they then don’t you can get all snotty.

  29. mariospants says:

    I agree that the OP was being a bit of a dip, but the delivery guy is STEALING. Hell, he might even be turning all of the “0”‘s in people’s tips into “6”‘s and adding additional decimals, he needs to be caught.

    I’d say the police – and not just PJ’s – needs to be involved in this.

  30. malraux says:

    @COELACANTH: The point of the tip is so that businesses can’t offload wages from their books to the employee. Unfortunately that means that the point of the tip in many cases is simply to pay for the service at all. Therefor, demanding a tip is no different than demanding pay for any other labor.

  31. harlock_JDS says:

    @Dead Wrestlers Society: actually the guy sounds kinda like a jerk overall (from stilling the delivery driver to complaining about a completely reasonable (and quick) response to the problem). It sounds like he wants the delivery drivers tared and feathered.

    Natually the next time he orders from papa john’s i doubt he’ll get an untainted pizza.

  32. FrenchBenj says:

    Douche indeed… The kid makes, what, a buck an hour, and you refuse to tip him because he wrote an “X” next to the tip line? Bad karma, dude, bad karma!

  33. sir_pantsalot says:

    This guy may have a good point. Most receipts I have seen the tip line is about 1/2 inch away from the signature line. There is no way that someone could just quickly write a big X and it just happen to be closer to the tip line than the signature line.

    It would be great if this chain told all their delivery customers that there is an extra charge or it will take longer for the pizza to be delivered because they had to hire an experienced “X” writer for their receipts. Then call this their new “Customers Name” Policy.

  34. WisconsinDadof2 says:

    So what could they have said that would have been acceptable to the OP? Understanding that the phrase “taking it seriously” is occasionally over used, it is still something that they immediately called back, and seemed willing to resolve the issue. I’d be pissed off and defensive too, after acting quickly to respond to his complaint and getting a condescending smartass remark like that in return.

    So if the guy had said “Papa John’s is genuinely concerned”, the OP would have said “don’t be concerned, resolve my issue”? I think the anti-“taking it seriously” crowd is a little silly, frankly. I’m not sure at what point the mere use of this turn of phrase changed from the literal meaning of the words to somehow mean the exact opposite. In the end he’ll probably get a couple of free pizzas from Papa John’s too, although he may want to go the pickup route instead of delivery when he orders them.

  35. Coelacanth says:

    @malraux: That may be the case, but I think the businesses should pay their employees a living wage, and if a service is particularly costly to the business, then charge a delivery fee, which I believe happened here.

    Other than that, build it into the cost of the product. When a tip is truly *voluntary*, perhaps it’ll encourage customer-effacing employees to go the extra mile… and provide exceptional service.

    Not that I expect the economy to function in that manner anytime soon. Until taht point, I’ll continue to tip the standard rate.

  36. snoop-blog says:

    no the driver does get all but 25 or 50 cents of the delivery fee, and since they started pulling this crap, I too have adjusted the tip to include the delivery charge. If your delivery charge is $2.00, I’ll give you another $2 plus the change (coins). I look at it like even if they don’t get the delivery charge, and I know they do, that’s still $2 and some change to literally drive 5 blocks. Still not a bad deal.

  37. EmperorOfCanada says:

    I am actually usually a reasonable tipper.. %20 or $5 whichever is higher.. However in the case of pizza delivery I absolutely hate those delivery fees. If the fee doesnt go to the driver then I dont see any point in charging the fee.

    I consider the tip my delivery fee, and if they charge it right on the receipt then I consider my tip already given.

    Not my fault that the pizza company rips off their employees.

    Delivery should be free, or at least factored into the price of the meal.

  38. SkokieGuy says:

    Can I throw out a thought? What if the X on the charge slip was put on by the people in the store who took the order? It’s unlikely the driver has access to a credit card terminal.

    So the initial ‘offense’ that ticked off the OP and caused him to decline to tip the driver might have not even been the driver’s fault.

    The adding of a tip was of course stealing, but would the OP have tipped the driver if there wasn’t the evil, horrible ‘x’ on the receipt?

  39. kable2 says:

    The pizza guy does not get a tip from me. What I do give the guy is a few bucks for himself to help him out with his expenses (like 2 or 3 bucks).

    I dont agree with tipping, so lets call this a service fee.

  40. johnva says:

    Agreed that this isn’t sufficient justification to not tip. Never mess with the people who prepare your food!

    That being said, I deal with this sort of thing via chargeback. Once I actually tipped quite well at a restaurant, and they apparently decided to tack on even more. I simply called my credit card company, explained the discrepancy, and let them deal with it. I got a credit instantly, and the merchant likely was hit with a chargeback fee. The fee is a much bigger incentive for them to actually “take it seriously” and figure out which of their employees just cost them $25 or whatever their acquiring bank charges now.

  41. tortcat says:

    Well…seems Papa John’s did contact the OP almost right away. I am not sure the “attitude” by the OP on the phone call was really needed. The fact they called back so quickly seems to have indicated they were in fact going to do something about it.

    Thats just my 2 cents on that aspect of it anyhow, since the point of the post was not really about the tip the delivery guy added ( which was wrong) but more about how the supervisor calling the OP was acting.

  42. johnva says:

    @kable2: You “don’t agree with tipping”? If you eat out at the same places (in the U.S.) much, I bet people spit in your food. I don’t like the practice of tipping, either, but I can’t change the world. I’m not going to punish a service employee because of my distaste for their employer’s business practices.

  43. snoop-blog says:

    @snoop-blog: May I add that I use to tip a five spot faithfull,… until they started this delivery charge crap. That’s a smak in the face to good tippers like me. I was tipping a dollar per block that they had to drive. To hit me for another $2, is just greed, and now has forced me to reduce the amount I tip to make up for the delivery charge. If your store doesn’t give you that charge, not my problem. All I know is they use to NOT charge it, so…

  44. snoop-blog says:

    Jeez, my spelling and grammar is barbaric today!

  45. icust298 says:

    While I usually tip fairly well just out of courtesy, it shouldn’t be a requirement to tip. Also to those people saying that it’s terrible that delivery drivers make so little without a tip, maybe they should get a better paying job then. There are plenty of people that don’t make very much money that we don’t tip. If there weren’t enough people willing to do the job for the current wage, the wages would go up.

  46. Pizza_Guy says:

    A word of warning to this guy and whoever else thinks delivery drivers don’t deserve a tip. Drivers remember who doesn’t tip or who is a light tipper. Yes, light tippers are just as bad as no tippers. Ordering a pizza which costs $9.95, giving the driver a ten and saying, “Keep the change”, is a real kick in the coin purse. My usual response was to give them the nickel and mention they obviously need it more than I do. Drivers can and will do any number of things to ‘punish’ you in the future. I delivered pizza for 3 years in college and here’s a few items in the delivery drivers retaliation handbook:

    Take your time on the delivery. Don’t be surprised if your next delivery takes an extra 30-45 minutes. For those of you who say, “Well, I’d just send it back and get a new pizza!”, the driver doesn’t care. You’re the one now waiting 2 hours or more for your dinner. He already knows there is no chance of a tip from your past history, so why should he be bothered by your inconvenience.

    Don’t put the pizza in a heat bag. I delivered in a pickup truck. In the winter, non-tippers pizzas would be put in the truck bed without the usual insulated bag. Enjoy your frozen pizza, cheapskate.

    Use ‘questionable’ toppings. Our topping area was pretty common, toppings in containers over a grated area where the pizza was placed. When topping pizzas, toppings will inevitably not make it on the pizza, but fall off through the grates and into a container. These containers are usually not emptied until the end of the night. If a known non-tipper ordered pizza with toppings available in the container, these were used regardless of how long they had been there. If it has been a slow day and the containers are empty, toppings can be dropped on the floor or in some other way contaminated. Also, these container toppings are commonly used when a customer orders a pizza with “The Works”.

    Treat their pizza like it owes you money. Drop the pizza, throw it around, carry it under your arm like a book, etc. The goal of this is to make sure the pizza is a mess when delivered.

    One other thing to remember is delivery drivers and generally all people in the service industry (waitresses, bartenders, etc) don’t get paid the usual minimum wage. I delivered when the minimum wage was $5.25, but delivery drivers got $2.22 +.25 cents a delivery + tips. As you can see, your tips make a huge difference in their salary. In order to deserve no tip whatsoever, the driver better show up using the corpse of my dead mother as a handpuppet.

  47. Coelacanth says:

    @johnva: You know, that trend could change if some restauranteur opened a place and advertised their waitstaff receive decent pay, and that the entire establishment absolutely refuses tips.

    The food may be more expensive, but it sounds ethical and could start a trend if enough people are willing to support it.

  48. technotica says:

    We had the same exact thing happen with a Papa Johns in our area. My husband forgot to give the delivery driver a tip, so the next day he went back to give the poor guy a tip. There we found that the driver took it upon himself to write in a (large) tip on the CC slip.

    Needless to say we were not enthused and contacted the local manager. The apologized profusely and fired the driver.

  49. OnceWasCool says:

    Chatsworth Georgia Papa Johns does this. We paid with credit card and tipped the driver with cash. Later, when checking the statement, they had added a tip to the charge. I called the manager and he said it didn’t happen. He said they only billed the credit card company the pizza price. Funny how the next day it was corrected on our bill. It is a scam and I think Papa Johns is doing it automatically or the manager is.

    Cash works best.

  50. milqtost says:

    @malraux: I hate to sound all Mr. Pink here but the point of a tip is to reward excellent service. If this driver doesn’t like his $7.50 hourly rate, he shouldn’t expect everyone to hand out tips to make it up, he should find a new job. Or deliver better service so people want to tip. It’s not up to the customer to pay him a living wage.

  51. anthonyhasp says:

    When I was a delivery driver, the rule was if I used my own vehicle, I received the delivery fee and if I used the store’s vehicle, they got the fee.

  52. Canino says:

    I solved this issue for myself a long time ago by deciding to not buy delivery pizza. It’s way too expensive, add tax, there is a delivery charge when delivery used to be included, and tipping. Put all that together and it’s $17 and change for a large 2-topping pizza.

  53. cmdrsass says:

    I don’t blame the guy at Papa John’s for being offended. The OP didn’t even give him the courtesy of allowing him to attempt to resolve the issue before he lashed out. Making the guy who wants to help you angry is pretty stupid.

  54. ryatziv says:

    @angrypants: I tip for service, not to me the delivery person’s wage more livable. Whether or not he’s making ends meet isn’t my concern.

  55. secgeek says:

    I have to agree the OP seems like a jerk…. Why would you not tip??? If the service was slow then maybe give less than you normally would, but to not tip at all is rude.

    I always find tipping humorous, while in school I worked Valet, Pizza delivery all types of jobs that had gratuities tacked on. It was always the same scenario, the guy who has been spoonfed his entire life driving a high end luxury car gives a buck (Howard Stern gave me a 3 dollar tip to park his truck), while the guy who has worked for a living to buy his high end luxury car or even PoS tips 5-10 bucks.

    I remember a while back (01 or so) I got laid off, so was doing a shift or two valet while I was looking for a job. I will never forget this.. I was studying for my CISSP, while waiting for cars to leave. This guy gives me a buck to get his car. I guess I must of left my book cover up. He looks at it and then when I bring the car gives me a ten. I guess it made him think that “Oh Crap I might have to valet cars one day”

    On the other hand the driver did commit fraud, which should be punished. Taking it out on a customer service rep who is trying to help is just stupid.

  56. chaintothread says:

    Unbelievable, OP Mark is an asshole. Your opinion on tipping doesn’t matter. You have to tip. It’s not optional. Right or wrong, that is how the food service industry works. Even giving him a dollar says “I’m broke, sorry”. Giving him nothing says “you are a piece of shit”. You can make up all the excuses about red X’s and bad service, but the real story here is that you are a cheap douchebag who thought he could get away with saving a few bucks.

  57. LINIS says:

    There is no doubt in my mind that any future orders from this Papa Johns will arrive with some “extra toppings”.

  58. snoop-blog says:

    @chaintothread: @secgeek: It’s people like you that make me want to never tip reguardless of how good the service is…

    I tip is something that is earned, not something you are entitled to. I hate entitled people.

  59. intellivised says:

    Back in my ‘home from college for the summer’ days, I worked as a pizza delivery guy. This was when gas *gasp* hit $2.00/g for the first time.

    The way it typically worked (at both places I worked) was we were given a bank of $20 in various change making forms at the beginning of the shift. That was owed back with the cash totals of the pizzas you delivered, also. Anything a customer gave you beyond the total was yours (your tip).
    I did cash drops throughout the night to keep me from carrying around too much money. Every order you delivered $1 (or $.50 at the first place I worked) was deducted from the $20 owed back. So basically you were guaranteed $1/delivery. Average night was 10-20 deliveries, more on weekends. A good night would be $80 in tips 2000-2001 money.

    No judgment calls on the OP, just a basic breakdown. Surplus delivery charge tends to go to the tip pool for the lineworkers since they are making the food.

  60. AMetamorphosis says:

    Slow news day Consumerist ?

  61. Average_Joe says:

    @Dead Wrestlers Society: Well putting a band-aid on the problem doesn’t do much to prevent it from happening in the future. I think it is reasonable to request it be investigated to know how that extra money was charged. If it was charged as a tip, then the location he is ordering from has a theft problem and even if refunded, the OP should contact the police. Most likely a business isn’t going to “take this seriously” unless they are forced to by the police. And the business is most likely going to call this a mistake even if it is clear theft. They might not even fire the guy who did it.

  62. Consumerist-Moderator-Roz says:

    @chaintothread: Please do not feel you need to respond to this troll’s comments – he’s been banned.

    Let’s get it back on topic. :)

  63. secgeek says:

    @snoop-blog: How do you figure people like me??? I could get horrible service, so I might leave less then usual but I’ll leave something. Do you know that some restaurants pay their waitstaff below minimum wage?? The Tip is included in their total comp.

    I never said a tip is something you are entitled to but think about it from the pizza guys perspective. He is driving through all sorts of weather so you don’t have to. Thats not worth a buck or two? Then get off your lazzy @$$ and go get it yourself.

    Or the Valet guy thats sitting in the rain so you don’t have to walk to your car? Do some real work for your money then come back and say that… I make a really good living, but I worked my way up to where I am. So I know what its like..

  64. jonworld says:

    I’m not trying to blame the OP, but tipping is really no longer considered optional. If you liked the service, you should tip more and if you didn’t like it, you should tip less, but NEVER SKIP THE TIP!

    However, the delivery guy was wrong to add on the tip himself.

  65. ryatziv says:

    @chaintothread: It’s great that you’ve made your own version of the term “tip”, but the rest of us have the right to refer to it in the standard definition.

  66. snoop-blog says:

    @secgeek: well it was more the other guy than you. I’m actually right there with ya, bad service still gets a dollar from me because that’s like saying, I’m a tipper, but you still failed me, and it could have been more.

    However, When I delivered for Jimmy John’s (I love, love, love that place) we had to fire a driver for stealing tips off of cc’s. It’s actually a REALLY common occurance because unless you catch it and complain, the bs managers at that place could know it’s going on but not give a shit. (which was how it was where I worked).

  67. ryatziv says:

    @secgeek: He is driving through all sorts of weather so you don’t have to. Thats not worth a buck or two? Then get off your lazzy @$$ and go get it yourself.

    That is worth a buck or two… it’s called the delivery charge. I know it comes out of my pocket.

  68. JaguarChick says:

    @secgeek:

    That cheap tipping thing is sooo true. I had a friend in college who was ridiculously spoiled (only child, parents had him very late in life) and was the worst tipper ever.

    He would also collect cash from everyone when a big group of us would eat out (and everyone had included their portion of the tip in the cash they handed over) then charge the dinner on the credit card his parents paid for and NOT write in a tip. We finally busted him when I had gone to the bathroom while everyone was settling up and by the time I got back out, they had all gone out to their cars and the waitress actually yelled at me for being cheap and showed me the receipt. I emptied my wallet and he was pretty much ostracized from that point on.

  69. secgeek says:

    Oh I agree completely…. The driver is definitely at fault…

    Damn I hate you why you have to bring up JJ… I haven’t been to Jimmy John’s since my last ChiTown Visit!!! and I’m hungry….

  70. secgeek says:

    @ryatziv: That Delivery charge is completely bogus. If it doesn’t go to the driver it should be removed.

  71. coan_net says:

    I would also be mad at Papa John for charging an amount over the agreeded amount.

    I’m also mad at the person who does not tip. Usually a delivery charge is kept by the store / used to counter the gas cost.

    A tip is a way to say thank you to the person who is driving all over town bring you food – dealing with traffic – walking up stairs – etc…..

    TIP THE DELIVERY GUY. (Good tips usually make them remember you and you get quicker service next time)

  72. ryatziv says:

    @secgeek: It should be removed, but as long as it’s money coming out of my pocket, then the delivery guy has beef to take up with his employer, not with me.

  73. Stormslanding says:

    Was the order correct? Did it arrive before the given time? These are reasons to tip, simply because he put an X next to the tip line does not justify NOT tipping.

    When I worked as a pizza deliverer in High School, the customers that tipped well got bumped up to the top of the delivery queue, and the ones like you got a 45 minute cold pizza.

    Next time don’t screw the driver out of tips and this whole situation could have been avoided. Pick up your pizza if you don’t want to tip.

  74. SkokieGuy says:

    Has anyone noted the inherent irony of the “taking it seriously” phrase as it relates to this post? The has become a phrase to be mocked is because of all the companies who toss out the phrase, but are all talk & no action.

    In this case, PJ’s did ‘take it seriously’. They promised to look into it, promised to call back, and kept both their promises. The call back was in 7 minutes, less than the hold time of even reaching corporate at many companies.

    Papa John’s DID take it seriously. Other companies who monitor Consumerist, take note: Say what you’re going to do – then do what you say. Pretty easy huh?

  75. Youthier says:

    @snoop-blog: Jimmy John’s demanded a tip off of me the other day! I had a large order delivered to work. I was a little disorganized and getting all my ducks in a row so the delivery driver was probably getting a bit irritated. But then she said to me, “So, are you going to tip me? Because I came all the way out here.”

    She got $5, which was about 5% of the bill. THAT’S demanding.

  76. MrMold says:

    The pizza delivery folks work hard for little money. The tips keep their wreck running. So Mr Entitled doesn’t like tipping. Is he cheap? Does he wish to treat working folks like slaves? Or did he just realize that calling corporate can save him $6.42 if he acts offended.

    I read the threads and have noticed that many stores now require a receipt for even store credit. Tells you a lot of scams are out there. Mr Entitled sounds like one. Give an OK for a tip and then deny it later. Reminds me of my former boss that used to wait for the rest of us to leave the restaurant and then scoop up the tips…after all Jesus gets 10%, why should a server get any….

  77. geofriend says:

    I am a college student who did pizza delivery (for Domino’s) as a summer job. I can tell you, most of the driver’s pay comes from tips (the hourly pay is less than minimum wage), and that $2 delivery charge is never seen by the driver. It goes directly to corporate, and unfortunately for drivers, many customers see it as a “tip” and it effectively comes out of our pay. Not tipping because of an X and a delivery charge is therefore very rude, and if more people are like you drivers won’t have enough money to live.

    That said, stealing is still wrong, and you should get your money back, but you haven’t exactly been a nice guy.

  78. campredeye says:

    Not giving a tip is just rude. Maybe he meant to mark the signature line and accidentally did the tip line? Ive accidentally signed on the tip line before… Maybe hes used to having people ask “Where do i sign?”

    Drunk college students and lazy people wont take the time to look and see and want shit handed to them.

    Tipping is considered rude in eastern Asia. I like their logic, you pay for the meal, the service is included in the price and guaranteed to be in their best effort. But I guess that is part of their culture, and we Americans are all greedy bastards.

  79. ratnerstar says:

    @SkokieGuy: “Say what you’re going to do – then do what you say. Pretty easy huh?” Except then you end up on Consumerist anyway. So what’s the point of trying to provide good service?

  80. CumaeanSibyl says:

    It’s not the low-level drones who come up with these meaningless phrases and scripts — it’s a language created by PR hacks and handed down from the highest levels of the company. Harassing some guy who just works the phones is a dick move.

  81. MrMold says:

    I used to be a pizzahund. The local shops knew me so well they literally asked me, “Your usual, MrMold?”. In the days before electronic records, this meant I ordered at least twice a week.

    I had a friend that worked as a delivery driver and I asked him what the rates were. When I heard, I was appalled. And began tipping. At least 15% (old days) and usually more. Funny thing, the pizzas started arriving earlier and hotter.

    The days of birth conferring status and entitlement are gone. If you’d like a return to those bygone years, recall the French and Russian Revolutions.

  82. snoop-blog says:

    @coan_net: what gas does the store use?

    @Youthier: when I worked there, All order’s over $50 got hit with a $10 delivery charge (that I got to keep) because it usually was a business, and I usually had to walk a million miles to your break room, then back to my car about 3 times. Meanwhile others were still waiting on their food.

  83. Lucky225 says:

    I’m not even going to read any of the comments above. Let me say I’ve been a delivery driver for 2 separate Papa Johns in 2 different states. The delivery driver’s actions (both putting an X next to the tip line), and stealing from your credit card are totally unacceptable. I no longer work for, nor do I endorse Papa John’s, but I would like to apologize to the OP. Both times I worked at Papa John’s, I was unlike any of the other Delivery Drivers. Let me just say that most of them have a sense of entitlement to a tip (especially now with gas prices). Most of them view our customers as ‘lazy bastards who have enough money to order a pizza but can’t fork over a tip’. Addresses of known ‘non-tippers’ were blacklisted by delivery drivers, and whoever got the delivery would usually drive to that location last, even if they were right across the street (again, you must be a “lazy bastard” if you can’t walk across the street). I for one do not feel like this, and never EXPECTED tips, *I* DIDN’T EVEN WANT TIPS ON CC’S — YOU HAVE TO REPORT THOSE TIPS TO THE IRS AS THE COMPUTER AUTOMATICALLY REPORTS IT ON YOUR CHECK! In any event, the OP *HAS* a point regardless of what others think, drivers get a $1.25-1.75 (depending on the store or franchise) of that $2.00 delivery fee. I treated all customers the same regardless of weather or not they tipped, I even had to hold back laughter when customers threatened no tip if something went wrong (Let’s face it, it’s pizza, things do go wrong, not always my fault) Anyways this is just my point of view, I find delivery driver’s since of entitlement completely unacceptable, you get paid an hourly wage + delivery (and when you take 3-5 orders at a time, your gas for the trip is usually more then paid for in delivery charge) you shouldn’t be expecting a tip, period. Customers who go out of their way to tip are just being nice, remember, you choose to work in Delivery or you didn’t have any other skills or care in life to get an education and a better job, that’s your problem, not the customers.

  84. floraposte says:

    Whether the OP should have tipped or not, the delivery guy should not have broken the law in response to the absence of a tip.

    However, I think the fact that “taking it seriously” has become a hollow cliché at times doesn’t mean you get to always get to blow off people for using it. The problem isn’t the phrase, it’s the lack of response behind it, and I’d rather have a company use the cliché and do something than get a brighter PR team that gives them a different response phrase to hide their inaction behind.

  85. MurrayLaenatus says:

    A few years ago Papa Johns started charging the delivery fee even
    though I live less than 5 minutes away. I assumed it was a ‘required’
    tip of sorts, and only tipped my driver the change leftover (less than
    a dollar). He blew up at me about how that money doesn’t go to the
    driver, etc. I have not ordered another pizza from Papa Johns to be
    delivered since.

  86. RalphBurdick says:

    I asked the delivery guy last time and he said no they don’t get the
    delivery charge. He wished they did b/c it would make up for all the times
    they don’t get tipped b/c people think they keep the 2.00

  87. SkokieGuy says:

    The problem isn’t the phrase, it’s the lack of response behind it, and I’d rather have a company use the cliché and do something than get a brighter PR team that gives them a different response phrase to hide their inaction behind.

    Bravo! Well said.

  88. coren says:

    @malraux: The delivery guy is already paid by the company. If there is some sort of required compensation that the OP can “steal” by not putting it on the receipt, then it should have already been factored in.

    Also, I prefer to use a debit/credit card in situations like this so as not to deal with the awkwardness of nto having exact change

  89. Kajj says:

    I hate to spark off yet another round of bile from people who have obviously never worked service jobs, but it’s possible the driver didn’t steal at all.

    Firstly, in a lot of pizza places drivers don’t touch the registers. Cashiers do.

    Secondly, cashiers in busy restaurants sometimes estimate the tip when they’re ringing up the receipt, and go back and adjust it to the actual amount later. I found this out when I saw a tip on my credit card after I’d paid in cash. I told a waitress friend about it as I was preparing to storm over to the restaurant and demand my money back, and she explained how that sometimes happens. The tip was cleared from my card the next day, and I never had to say anything about it.

    I don’t condone that practice, but I understand how a busy restaurant might look for anything they can do that saves time. For me they still had to go to the register twice, but for the majority of people who tipped the estimated 15 percent, once was enough.

    And expecting tips isn’t greed, it’s business. Patrons pay the restaurant for the food and the waiter for the service. Minimum wage for tipped employees is less than three dollars an hour. The law assumes the remainder will be made up in tips. If you don’t like it open your own restaurant.

    I have never seen a non-tipper congratulating themselves and thought “My, what a pennywise individual. I sure won’t try to pull anything over HIM.” I don’t know why people are always so proud to have less understanding of how our society works and less consideration for other people.

  90. coren says:

    @SkokieGuy: The store has the machine, but the driver has the pen – which is surely what the x was written in, unless it was part of the receipt, in which case I would think that would be mentioned

  91. sarahandthecity says:

    i propose a ban on all stories beginning with “so i decided not to tip him…” because, really, people need to not be jerks. delivery drivers are paid a pittance by the hour and are usually doing it as a second job.

    if you didnt want to pay a delivery charge or tip the driver, papa john’s offers pick up.

    was the delivery guy wrong and unprofessional? sure. but who was the first one on the dickwad train? OP.

  92. rhpot1991 says:

    A lot of places will run your card for the price of the meal + 18% that way if you choose to tip on it they will know if you would be rejected or not. They then will adjust the price after you fill out the tip. This very well could have been one of those instances as he was looking at the charge the very next day and these things take time to filter through.

  93. harlock_JDS says:

    @Lucky225:

    i always tip with cash even when paying via CC because i don’t trust the server to actually get the tip if it is put on the card. I also totally black out the tip section on the check so nothing can be added later.

  94. lannister80 says:

    @malraux

    A tip is exactly that: a tip. Totally at my discretion. If you rely on tip income to make ends meet, make damn sure your service is so awesome you get on every time, or get a new job. Tough cookies.

  95. AdvocatesDevil says:

    @lemortede: “Yes they get a per mile reimbursement but come on, does that really cover anything any more.”

    Um, maybe they should have chosen a different career path then? Stealing from customers doesn’t seem like the right response to the realization that you should have gone to school and gotten a REAL job! :)

  96. AdvocatesDevil says:

    @sarahandthecity: “delivery drivers are paid a pittance by the hour and are usually doing it as a second job.”

    Ah, yes, they chose the wrong career path so WE should give them our hard earned money whether or not they do a good job? If they do their job right, they get a tip. If they don’t, they don’t. If you want socialized everything, move to Cuba please. :)

  97. AdvocatesDevil says:

    @lannister80: Finally, someone on this site who understands the way the world works! If I work a $2.33 an hour job, is that my fault or the customer’s fault?

  98. Let me put this a politely as I can: Only a total loser would not tip someone doing them a service because they are expecting a tip. Of course, they expecting a tip! They are doing something for you that is customarily a task where part of the payment for that job comes in the form of a tip. To stiff this poor pizza delivery guy because of a perceived slight shows a total lack of class.

    It is jerks that think that for some reason they are better than someone who delivers a pizza for a living that make doing that job seem demeaning. But working for a living is not demeaning. Not paying for a service provided is demeaning.

  99. snoop-blog says:

    @chaintothread: Yeah I just looked up the definition of the word “tip” and not one dictionary says it’s required. However all of them did say it was optional/unrequired. Sorry.

  100. snoop-blog says:

    @snoop-blog: and to add to my last comment, most of the dictionaries I looked at also said something to do with going above and beyond, or providing exceptional service.

  101. Oface says:

    I know in Nashville they won’t let you amend a receipt with tip amounts. Something about they aren’t allowed to do so. So now I keep a couple dollars on hand to give to the driver.

  102. Goutnout says:

    @Kajj: I don’t know what kind of scam restaurants you go to but for the cashier to guess and charge the tip ahead is the most absurd way of doing business I have ever heard.

    @everyone: The delivery fee is charged by the stores as a way to cover the wage of having all the extra drivers on staff collecting min wage folding pizza boxes waiting for the next order. Employees you would otherwise not need to hire if you weren’t offering delivery.

    When i delivered pizza in a small town you would have to drive upwards of 25 miles round trip roughly one gallon of gas in a average car. I expected the tip + portion of the delivery fee would cover the gas. If you don’t want to tip that’s fine but you should have enough sense to know how far away you live from the store to cover basic gas there and back for the driver.

  103. snakeskin33 says:

    “At my discretion” does not equal “not subject to any disagreement from anyone.” Of course a tip is at the tipper’s discretion. But the way you use your discretion can be criticized, and while it certainly doesn’t justify the driver writing in his own tip (if indeed he did), I personally find the idea of stiffing the driver for the sin of marking the line where 99 percent of consumers are going to fill in the tip to be very unfair.

  104. snoop-blog says:

    @Goutnout: If that was true about the delivery charge, then:

    A) Why hasn’t this charge always been there, and

    B) Why is there a ex Papa Johns employee on here telling us that they do get all but 25-50 cents of it,

    C) Why did Jimmy John’s (which I worked for) not keep the delivery charge but instead gave it to the drivers.

    ONE THING WE HAVE ALL MISSED FOLKS:

    I’ve been wanting to say it but When I was delivery driving, the charge was supposed to help towards my vehicle repairs. Obviously I’m going through brakes, shocks, tires, etc. Not just gasoline.

  105. mlradio says:

    >>A lot of places will run your card for the price of the meal + 18% that way if you choose to tip on it they will know if you would be rejected or not. They then will adjust the price after you fill out the tip. This very well could have been one of those instances as he was looking at the charge the very next day and these things take time to filter through. <<

    Yes, I see this happen often. But when this happens it shows up as “PENDING” on my account. When the final transaction goes through one to five days later, the pending transaction is reversed and the new transaction with the correct amount is deducted from the account.

    Because the tip amount in the original poster’s complaint was an odd amount ($6.42), I suspect that may be have been was possibly happened here as well. Of course, only the original poster could respond whether or not the Papa John’s charge on his card shows as PENDING or COMPLETED.

  106. Corydon says:

    Yet another example of how America has become a nation of selfish douchebags.

    1) Papa Johns is wrong to charge a delivery fee if the entire fee does not go directly into the driver’s pocket.

    2) The driver was mildly wrong to draw attention to the tip line. We’ve all ordered pizza before; we know how the system works.

    3) The OP was massively wrong to punish the driver by leaving him nothing. If you can’t afford to tip, then go to the supermarket and buy yourself a Tombstone. Just like we all know how to fill out a credit card slip, we all know that delivery drivers pretty much subsist off their tip money.

    4) The driver was massively wrong to alter the credit card slip. No question.

    5) Papa Johns corporate did the right thing by calling back immediately and refunding the difference. Stellar customer service might have been to comp the entire thing, but they were in the right.

    6) The OP was massively wrong to go off on the caller after Papa Johns had just fixed the problem. Yes, “We take X very seriously” is a bit of a joke around here. But all it was meant to do was to tell the OP that Papa Johns would indeed follow through with resolving his problem.

    At any of these 6 points in the entire transaction, the entire situation could have been defused. But because everyone involved (with the exception of the corporate call-back person) chose to continue to escalate the situation and in general act like a raging douchebag on steroids, we got to read about it here.

  107. Goutnout says:

    @snoop-blog: In Florida we have always had a charge (I can only speak for the last 9 years). It usually goes up when the gas prices hit a new plateau. Everyone from national to local chains charge.

    When I delivered it was $2 and I got to keep 1.25 not a bad deal for gas prices which were roughly the same. Every franchisee is allowed to charge whatever they want and pay whatever they want of it (if any) to the drivers. Corporate Domino’s didn’t tell the franchisee of my location how much to charge or how much to give to the driver. What domino’s will tell the franchisee is how fast the average delivery turnaround in that particular store needs to be. Where I worked it was under 35 minutes so if your store isn’t hitting that they had to hire more drivers. It’s regional just like all surcharges. You have to factor in how much business a particular store does for pickup. If the business does most of its sales from pickups they won’t need as many drivers allowing more flexibility in their wage/generosity. There are a million factors they gotta do what they gotta do to keep the business making money.

    We used to have 8 drivers on Friday nights to keep up with arbitrary 35 minute rule, when 5 could have done the job cost to franchisee at that time $21 extra a hour. Guess who pays that bill.

  108. Consumerist-Moderator-Roz says:

    @Corydon: Posting helpful comments for the victim is fine; posting that the victim is a selfish douchebag is not fine. Don’t do it again.

  109. trujunglist says:

    I guess if you don’t have anything good to say you shouldn’t say it at all, so here I go:

  110. trujunglist says:

    @snoop-blog:

    Can you link the posting that talks about the Papa Johns employee getting most of the delivery fee?

  111. grebby says:

    Tip or don’t, it’s your business. But seriously OP, there’s no need to go off on Papa John’s customer service guy just because he uses the phrase “taking X seriously.” Especially considering he had already agreed to solve your problem.

  112. Shadowman615 says:

    Obviously stealing the tip was wrong, and the driver should know better than to risk his job over 6 bucks. The driver certainly should suffer consequences from this.

    In addition, IMO this sounds to me as if the OP was looking for an excuse to save a few bucks by not tipping here, and managed to find one. Lucky him.

    I worked for tips for many years before I finished college as a bartender, and I never put X’s on the tip line — I thought that was a bit tacky. But I think to completely stiff someone’s tip because of that is much tackier. It’s understandable that if someone works for tips and gets stiffed quite a bit, as delivery drivers do, to be slightly assertive about asking for it.

    He certainly did not put his hand out, it was a subtle gesture. The guy is trying to make a living off of tips, and if such a gesture gets someone to tip who otherwise wouldn’t have, then it’s probably worth it, tacky or not.

    I’m not resorting to any name calling here or any of the other taboos. I just want to make the point that I think that not tipping the way the OP did, and being rude to someone who is helpfully resolving a problem because of the “taking it seriously” phase is totally unacceptable behavior.

  113. Zeke_D says:

    Firstly, a tip is NEVER mandatory. If the service I receive is exemplary, I tip generously. If the service is substandard, I tip low or not at all. When I make a purchase of any kind (including pizza) I expect to pay the price quoted to me. If I CHOOSE to REWARD service, I will tip. It is people who think that tipping is some sort of sociological obligation who are wrong.
    Next, on the the topic on hand: The OP was being a jerk. If I found out someone had potentially stolen from me as I am getting ready for work, I would be extremely upset, and possibly short with the person on the other end of the line. While the OP being short with the person who may be trying to help isn’t the smartest thing to do, I can certainly understand why the OP may have been flustered on the phone. Perhaps this should be an example of why we shouldn’t go off half-cocked and take the time to do the research on a subject before calling corporate or posting to the consumerist.
    Finally, the OP did say he would update us with the resolution of this issue, so maybe this will turn into a “Papa John’s is awesome” (seriously, who calls it Papa John’s Pizza) Or we could get an update about how Papa John’s totally dropped the ball, then the OP’s skepticism of ‘taking it seriously’ was justified.

  114. 2719 says:

    Staling money is not OK but also don’t be a cheapskate.

    If you don’t want to tip a pizza delivery guy you need to get the pizza yourself. A buddy of mine worked for Pizza Hut. Was making minimum wage (at that time I believe is was $5.xx). Those guys only do it because of tips.

    Also you do NOT want to stand out as the no tip guy. Trust me on this one!

    Bad things happen to those people (or should I say their food) ;)

  115. allstarecho says:

    I never EVER add a tip to pizza delivery anymore since they started charging delivery fees about 3 years ago here in my area of Mississippi. 3 years ago, not one company had a delivery fee.. not Dominos, Pizza Hut, Papa John’s or Mazzio’s. Then it seems at the same time, they all started it, ranging anywhere from $1.50 to $2.50, depending on which chain.

  116. wee0x1B says:

    I was a pizza guy in college. I can tell you with 95% certainty that if this guy ever orders a pizza from that Papa John’s, his pizza will be the very last delivered. I give him 50/50 odds of there being some sort of “foreign matter” on it when it arrives.

    Domino’s, years ago, had a special for a medium pizza and two cokes for like $9.87 (incl. tax). You want to guess how many times I got a 13 cent tip? Eventually, it was changed so that the total was slightly over $10, but for a while there it was maddening. Every once in a while we’d get people who gave us $15, saying stuff like “I can imagine you don’t get many tips…”. But that was rare.

    All those $9.87 pizzas got delivered dead last. Most of the worst offenders got “extras” with their pizza. The ones with the balls to ask for change pretty much always got a free special topping. I never did anything like that, but many drivers did. They felt pissed because someone had swooped in and grabbed all the tear sheets (those little slips on the pizza boxes) of the close deliveries and/or ones that didn’t all but guarantee you a 13 cent tip. And so they lashed out at the skinflint customers.

    I wound up telling the manager it was happening, and he made a half-hearted attempt to stop it.But he was a driver for years and years, and understood how they felt.

    In short, you DO NOT want to screw with the pizza guy. He’s likely just some punk kid trying to earn extra cash, and he’s not likely to have, ah, “advanced” scruples. Give the kid a tip, and you’ll get your pizza unaltered. Continuously tip well, and you’ll get your pizza first and unaltered. I feel sad that’s the way it is, but it’s the truth.

    If you’re too lazy to cook your own dinner and need to have someone bring it to you, then you really ought to factor in the cost of the guy doing the driving. Otherwise, you two will be sharing more than you’d like.

  117. dveight says:

    @Consumerist-Moderator-Roz: Are you freaking kidding?!?! Ok, with the 100+ comments that this story has gotten, I would say that at least 50 of the 1st 100 comments called the OP either a douchebag or a jerk, but you go after Corydon who was like post #97. What the hell is that all about.

    My 2-cents: Yes, what Papa John did was wrong. However, the jerk…I mean the OP, also made many mistakes and assumptions.

    1st, he assumed that it was the driver that put the X next to the tip line. It may not have been the driver, could have been whoever rang up the order. It also may not have been the driver who put in that extra amount.

    2nd, he was rude to the CSR who called him back in 7 minutes. When a company calls you back within an hour, I believe that they really are taking the matter seriously. No reason to be a jerk to someone who is trying to help you out.

    So OP, chill and don’t be such a jerk anymore, the public opinion is against you.

  118. Youthier says:

    @snoop-blog: This JJ’s actually had no delivery charge (I asked when placing) but honestly, I would have had no problem paying it. I would have had no problem putting down the $15 that I had planned on tipping until I was told that she deserved a tip.

    She did get me back by not faxing me my needed receipt so I had to go down there and pick it up myself for expensing purposes.

  119. Saboth says:

    Last I heard, you aren’t required to leave a tip. If service is bad, or the server acts like a jerk…don’t expect a tip. Now…usually I’ll tip at least 10%, even if everything is crap, but yeah…a tip is a TIP, not a required payment.

  120. yagisencho says:

    Once, long ago, I delivered pizzas for a living. Customers called in an order, the cashier wrote up the total, and we delivered the pizza/collected the total amount due. If memory serves, tips brought my (low) hourly wage up by 25-50%, depending on the shift.

    Anyway, there was one driver who made crazy tips, bringing his wage up by 75-100%. I learned his secret one night when he had to take off early and I used his (company-owned) car. On the floor of the car were all of the customer copies of the total slips from the night. I brought it to the store manager’s attention. It turns out the driver had been quoting bogus totals and pocketing the difference.

    I doubt this works any more in the day of debit card payments, but…moral of the story is…always insist on getting a copy of the receipt.

  121. verdantpine says:

    @technotica: Wow. This is why we usually order online and pick it up in person.

    I feel for delivery drivers (and my brother used to do their job eons ago, so I know the crap they put up with) but I agree with the OP that I don’t like being muscled into leaving a large tip. Tipping is supposed to be for good to great service. If you’re already paying a delivery fee on top of the pizza overhead, then snoop-blog is right, the tip should be negotiated downward.

    I especially dislike it when you get something to go, after driving somewhere, and waiting for it, and then you still get a receipt with a “tip” space on it (and yes, sometimes marked with a big x to designate, remember to add in more money for us!). We usually write “to go, thank you” in that space.

  122. STOP RIGHT THERE….

    Was this a CREDIT CARD or a DEBIT CARD?

    The OP says his wife noticed the overcharge the NEXT MORNING. It takes longer than that for the actual charge to POST, however most restaurants get an AUTHORIZATION for the total amount plus 30% to cover any “tips” that the customer MIGHT leave.

    The only way to know for sure if he was overcharged is to see what shows up when the charge is POSTED — That may be another day or two.

    So, I think this is over-reacting too soon!

  123. @dveight:

    I agree. While the OP puts the full onus on the driver for “stealing” as if he had proof that it was the driver who put the charge on his card, the OP’s action precipitated whatever actions happened and then he played the victim card to the hilt.

    When the moderator complained about “blaming the victim” they forgot to mention that the niggardly actions of the “victim” precipitated the “theft”.

    IMO, to not tip for a service rendered when a tip is customary is the equivalent of stealing. In our society it is completely unethical. If you are not going to tip for a service where a tip is entitled, then DO NOT use that service. It is pretty easy.

    So who’s the real victim? All people who provide good service.

    1. Because the JERKS who deem good service beneath their willingness to pay for it.
    2. Because of those who besmirch the name of those hard-working people who provide good service by stealing from their customers–if that is what happened.

    Any kid will tell you that two wrongs don’t make a right so quit calling the OP a “victim”. It demeans true victims everywhere.

  124. mmejanvier says:

    If Mark really wanted to prove a point to the driver he should have just communicated his frustration with the seemingly entitled attitude of the errant “x” next to the tip line. To just forgo tipping and say nothing is passive aggressive and will not solve anything. A simple, “You know, this makes it seem like you expect me to tip you and is off-putting, FYI” Or called the manager or something. Obviously it’s something he felt strongly about.

    The ensuing tip-theft is not okay. At all. Plus; nearly seven bones for delivery pizza? Sheesh! At least steal a reasonable tip! (I keeed, I keeed)

  125. P_Smith says:

    “Taking is seriously” is a synonym for “I’m sorry”.

    It’s told to people to placate them in hopes they go away, especially when the business has no intent of fixing their mistake or flawed product.

  126. RabbitDinner says:

    @The Rude Bellman: props on not being afraid to use the word “niggardly.”

  127. mmejanvier says:

    @RabbitDinner: Seriously. A the first entry on google is a wikipedia article titled: Controversies about the word “niggardly”

  128. RabbitDinner says:

    @mmejanvier: People in my high school loved this word, they took it as carte blanche to make jokes that were obviously racial in context. Completely OT, but something I haven’t thought about in a long while. It’s an obscure word, no doubt, but with a completely different origin. I don’t want to lose this word because of the immature types I went to high school with and the extremely self-righteous such as those who have been offended by appropriate usage of the word.

  129. RabbitDinner says:

    @RabbitDinner: Of course, I realize the irony, in that it was I who brought attention to the word niggardly in this post in the first place.

  130. modenastradale says:

    Uh, wow. The OP sounds like a complete jerk, and an ineffectual whiner too.

    I totally understand wanting to investigate and correct an errant charge. But why not contact the store directly? After all, they — not corporate headquarters — have access to their transaction records from the night before. Also, why leap to the conclusion of fraud, when it’s more likely that the wrong total was entered?

    I totally support standing up for oneself and demanding businesses to treat customers well. But this kind of crap is juvenile, and it reflects quite poorly on the OP.

    (Also, I can’t believe what a smug cheapskate the OP was to cross through the tip line and send the driver away. I suspect the OP is one of those people who, every time he dines out, looks gleefully for each and every failure of service, so that he can justify shortchanging the tip.)

  131. RabbitDinner says:

    @The Rude Bellman: I love this site to death, but sometimes the OP drives me nuts. He put an X near the tip area on the receipt? The way the author of the post phrased it, “Mark didn’t like how a Papa John’s pizza delivery guy was acting,” I thought the delivery guy was being curt, or held out his hand, or was otherwise unceremonious in his delivery. It is most definitely not akin to holding your hand out and saying “where’s my tip?”

    I don’t know what to think, is he a stickler for formalities, or was he just picking a fight? Who knows. As far as being a Mr. Pink on the issue, I’m all for merit-based tipping, but when you’ve gotten good service and refuse to tip based on your disagreement with the principle, that’s asinine.

  132. RabbitDinner says:

    My point being, he should’ve just omitted that from his letter. “I didn’t feel like tipping as I already paid a 2.00 delivery charge and then I got fleeced,” instead of “I found the X next to the tip line presumptive and I didn’t feel like tipping as I already paid a 2.00 delivery charge and then I got fleeced.”

  133. tex1ntux says:

    I dunno, when you have to deal with a guy who’s as big of an asshole as the “victim” here is I don’t see this as an added tip/theft.

    I’d say consider it an “Your an Asshole” fee.

  134. There's room to move as a fry cook says:

    This reminds me of a People’s Court episode. The defendant represented an unnamed airline that flies from NYC to Israel and has a reputation for high security. The plaintiff claimed that airline staff were abusive and had confiscated and damaged his PDA. The airline had apologized to the passenger and had sent a letter saying that, following an internal investigation, the employees involved had been disciplined and a permanent notation added to their personnel records. The rep’s defense was that, despite the apology in the letter, the airline had done nothing wrong, had not disciplined staff, and that this was just a meaningless standard form letter sent out to complainers.

  135. Canino says:

    I delivered pizzas in college. It was cash or check only. Most people paid cash. A normal tip was $1, and we’d get tips about 50% of the time.

    I learned a trick by accident one night. When counting back the change (always having plenty of $1 bills of course), “accidentally” drop one and step on it to keep it from blowing away. Continue counting and then at the end pick it up to give it to them. For some reason people didn’t want that dollar once you had stepped on it. Even people who didn’t normally tip would tell you to keep it. I made a lot of extra money with that trick.

  136. There's room to move as a fry cook says:

    I also delivered pizza. Tips were low and only about 50% tipped at all. Tip size and frequency was inversely related to social status. Apartment dwellers gave better tips.

  137. Yet another post from Consumerist where the customer was rude and the company responded in exactly the correct way.

    “Papa John’s takes this sort of complaint seriously” is 100 percent the exact correct response.

  138. Seriously Roz, are you going to ban half the people in this thread?

    Sometimes Consumerist blows it and posts a silly story. The problem is with the writer of the story – not the commenters.

  139. Joe S Chmo says:

    Two things here. The amount of 6.42 is divisible by 3 so it is indeed a possible transposition error so it would be helpful to know the original amount of the charge. It could also have been just the ‘hold’ amount like the other commenters have noted.

    One of the commenters also said to do a chargeback. Please do not do a chargeback on something like this. You need to contact the merchant first and seeing how the merchant said they would correct it, no chargeback process is necessary. Besides, for this amount the bank would just write it off and not chargeback the merchant.

  140. oldwiz says:

    A change on your charge slip should always be reported to the CC/debit card people as well as to the store management. If the CC people are told about it they will be aware it is happening and can watch the store’s billing. If it becomes frequent, the store will be in legal trouble.

  141. @RabbitDinner:

    I was not aware of the controversy involving this word. I first read it in Aristotle’s Ethics. His discussion of illiberality would be quite appropriate here.

  142. ArntorFTL says:

    First, and just playing devil’s advocate here, until OP hears otherwise, he doesn’t know that the pizza guy in question took it on himself to add a tip. For all we know the totals on two separate credit card slips could have been mixed up and entered incorrectly at the end of the night. These people work at a pizza place; they aren’t accountants.

    Second, Papa John’s at LEAST called OP back quickly. At that stage (gathering information, figuring out what the dispute it, etc.) what else should they have told him? Of course they take this sort of thing seriously and of course they will investigate it. But they still have to figure out what happened after the phone call! What else could they have said, at that moment, that would have satisfied OP? Something tells me “nothing.”

    Third, the OP seems to have a real problem with this particular driver. He strongly hints that the driver has probably “fleeced” other people in the same way he feels the driver “fleeced” him (sans proof, of course). I also noticed how OP took an attitude with the Papa John’s corporate person who called him back. You’re never going to get companies to right their wrongs if you act in this manner.

    Lastly, and I know this isn’t really the forum for this, but OP stiffing the driver was very, very bad form. The driver isn’t a mind reader and he has no idea why OP just stiffed him. So what if he put an X next to the tip line? Drivers live on tips. If you don’t tip, he loses money. Gas costs $4.00 a gallon. If he drove 15 miles round trip to your house, that’s, most likely, over a half gallon of gas. He just lost money on that delivery. Stores charge a “delivery charge” to offset the money they pay drivers to stand around/fold boxes/wash dishes. Yes, any “delivery charge” should all go to the driver, but it doesn’t always work that way. That is no reason to take it out on the driver.

    tl;dr OP should probably wait and see if Papa Johns fixes the problem and what explanation they give before making accusations. If they don’t, call the credit card company (and hope he saved his receipt as proof). It would probably also be helpful if OP acted with a little more courtesy to both service employees and those at the corporate office.

  143. coren says:

    @2719: But how do you know in advance if the guy is gonna hold his hand out for a tip (basically what happened here)

    @ArntorFTL: He didn’t get stiffed. Tip=optional. He is not owed the tip. And if he’s driving his own car (which he might not, Papa Johns is large enough to have their own delivery vehicles), he gets reimbursed for that. He’s not “losing” money. That’s what delivery charge is for – not to pay the pizza delivery guy to do work around the store. That’s what the price of pizza is, that guy’s wage. But you say don’t take it out on the driver when he’s the one the OP feels is asking for a tip when he shouldn’t – so who should the OP take it out on?

  144. coren says:

    @The Rude Bellman: Precipitated? You make it sound like the driver (or whoever) was justified in doing it. They’re not.

    I tip. It is customary. But it’s not mandatory, and if it was, the charge would be built in. You should absolutely tip if service was good (for pizza delivery, it’s hard to tell), but you don’t have to, and it sure isn’t stealing to do otherwise.

    OP isn’t a victim, though.

    @Dooley: I use my debit card to pay for everything, including places I tip. If anything, charges show as underpriced because they don’t allow for tip, just charge me the cost of my food.

  145. coren says:

    @MRsteve: Divisible by 3? I don’t follow – could you elaborate (I mean, I get the number being divisible by 3, just not it’s significance)

    Also: There’s a lot of talk of maintaining the vehicle, but who says it’s not a franchise owned delivery vehicle rather than the delivery guy’s car

  146. Major-General says:

    @COELACANTH: Ditto.

    @malraux: Perhaps the OP lives in a state like California, where it is illegal to pay less than minimum wage with an expectation that tips would make up the difference.

    @RabbitDinner: Niggardly comes from an Old Norse word meaning cheap.

    I’m with the OP, because I think he’s been someone who’s been lied to by too many companies about too many things.

  147. LionelShrew says:

    Happened to me once at an Outback Steakhouse. Waitress sucked, left
    zero tip. Checked my account the next day, she added $20. One police
    report and three phone calls later:

    1. Fired by the restaurant.
    2. Restaurant finds at least 4 other similar charges
    3. County DA files criminal charges

    I got my $20 back. She would just be off parole around now (3 years).

  148. djanes1 says:

    If you don’t want to tip, pick up the pizza yourself.

  149. RabbitDinner says:

    @Major-General: Oh, I wasn’t calling him out on using it, I was just giving him props because I’m hesitant to say the word because of its phonetic resemblance to a certain other word

  150. NinjaMarion says:

    @2719: “If you don’t want to tip a pizza delivery guy you need to get the pizza yourself. A buddy of mine worked for Pizza Hut. Was making minimum wage (at that time I believe is was $5.xx). Those guys only do it because of tips.

    Exactly. They do it for the tips. Why? Because with good tips, they make a pretty good wage. They COULD go work a 7-8 dollar an hour job doing something else, but they would rather take this job that service workers so often love to bitch about that’s so shitty because it might get them good tips. So because they are greedily choosing this crappy job, it’s somehow my personal responsibility to directly pay their salary? Screw that! If you make too low of an hourly wage, find another job where eating and paying bills doesn’t rely on people arbitrarily giving you extra money for doing what you’re already paid to do.

    A tip is just that, I don’t give a damn who says otherwise. A tip is a reward for good service. If you don’t provide good service, you can go screw yourself, because I’m certainly not giving you money (just less than I would have otherwise) for being an asshole to me. Hell, most of the time, “good service” to me is simply doing your regular job… not being an asshole, being as prompt as possible, etc. If you simply do your job, you’ll probably get a decent tip from me. If you go above and beyond, you’ll get a good tip. If you show up a half hour late with a “Dude, here’s your pizza. So where’s my tip, brah?”, you’re probably getting the door closed on your face. It’s a tip… a reward for good service. It’s not me being your employer and having to pay your wages, and if it were, you’d be fired for shitty service.

    And why should it be expected to tip just because someone’s bringing you food? Do you tip your garbage man? He has to ride on the back of the worst-smelling truck ever so you don’t have to burn your trash or take it to the dump yourself. This guy drives a pizza to your house in the comfort of his own car. What about hospital and nursing home personnel? They often have to deal with people that’ve puked or crapped themselves or bleeding all over the place, etc. So where’s their tip? Delivery drivers take a lot less shit from customers than call center employees, so where’s the mandatory tipping for call center workers?

    Now it’s kind of another issue if you’re doing your job well and don’t get a tip. It kinda sucks when you bust your ass and do well at what you do and still don’t get a tip, but it still shouldn’t be expected or demanded. You don’t know if the person’s a cheapskate, just forgot, or doesn’t have the money to at the time (either financially, or physically…as in only having the exact amount on the at the time). If it’s the last one, it’s absolute bullshit from the people that give the “Well then you obviously can’t afford pizza and shouldn’t be buying it” or “Go pick it up yourself” garbage. If I have the enough to pay what’s listed on the menu and any applicable delivery charges, I can afford the pizza. If you think I should only get delivery with a separate charge specifically to the driver in addition to paying the price of the food AND a delivery charge, open your own pizza chain and see if anyone chooses to order anything from someone that feels entitled to the customer’s money and thinks the customer’s an asshole if they don’t give you more than is required.

  151. Pro-Pain says:

    Papa Johns is one step above dog food. I can’t believe people eat that garbage. Yes, it IS that bad.

  152. @coren:

    Tipping is optional just like good service is optional. One goes with the other. The OP is your typical stingy, ungenerous, self-righteous chump who thinks he’s better than other people, especially those who have jobs serving others be they a pizza delivery guy or a CSR. However, it is evident this gentleman is better than no one.

    And NO, I did not justify stealing in any way shape or form. In fact, I said people who steal give those who provide good service a bad name.

    @NinjaMarion:

    Please take a Valium. I could go on for days about the merits or lack thereof of tipping in society but suffice to say that in some jobs a tip is customary and in some it is not. I did not write this societal rules. I would much prefer that the owner of a business pay his employees a good living wage instead of adding a few more million to his bottom line but that is not how it works. We have the system we have. If you order a service in which tipping is customary you should consider your tip as part of the price.

    The question of how you tip reflects more on you than on those serving you. Are you generous or a skinflint? Do you respect hard work and effort? Do you believe a worker is worthy of his wage? Would you rather those working in what many consider menial jobs instead go on welfare and live off of the largess of government? How you answer those questions will determine how well you tip.

    Good service should always be valued, whether you believe in tipping or not.

  153. GregGates says:

    People who eagerly look for a tiny sliver of excuse to clear their cheap conscience really can GTFO. You were lazy and wanted the pizza delivered. Pay the fee and give the guy $5. If you do not like the system, go pick it up. Even better, eat some chicken breast and rice.

    Yet another massive tool OP.

  154. arl84 says:

    I know a lot of people have probably already said this, but I need to say it too.

    The OP is completely indignant. The delivery guy is wrong for what he did, but the OP deserved it. And when corporate did everything right to fix it for him, the OP was still indignant.

    People like this guy are exactly why I don’t go above and beyond for my own customers anymore. I’m still gonna get attitude no matter what, might as well save the effort.

  155. Egakino says:

    Did pizza delivery before (papa johns even) so from my end it is like this:

    1. Dude probably stole it, there are alot of scummy drivers out there

    2. The X on the line is less so a *AHEM* with your hand out and more so for the pain of answering the same question a billion times. You actually wouldn’t believe how many people ask were to put the tip. I know they are giving money but COME ON! On that note i never did do that because I was lazy.

    3. As was said before customer sounded like a prick.
    in this case “we are taking it very seriously” equals “Yes i freakin know the problem already basically planned how to investigate and/or written up the pink slip please for the love of god shut up and stop repeating yourself”

    You can be sure that the manager was probably banging his head against the wall after the 10 min of this saying to himself, shut up shut up shut up.

    …. it should be compulsory service for everyone to work for a living in food service/customer service for at least a year. We would be so much better off as a country.

  156. Dansc29625 says:

    I wonder why he didn’t talk directly with the Store Manager? Seems strange to go directly with corporate. I wont tip just for doing ones job. Sorry folks just call me European. Why not just tip everyone, mechanics, cable repair men, the guy installing your battery at auto zone? Have you ever tipped the UPS or Fed-ex guy? How about the postman? The parts delivery guy does the same job as the pizza guy and never gets a tip. (the parts guy has to have a clean haircut and tuck in his shirt how about a tip for that) That is my tip rant.

  157. Chatter22 says:

    I’ve worked for Papa John’s for the last 3 and a half years, just recently “retired” for a full-time career. Let me say up front that I loved my time there. Good friends, the work was fun, and I made great money. Now this is how it is.

    Fact: The delivery fee, which just recently increased from $1.50 to $1.75, is there to sort of cover the company’s cost of paying drivers minimum wage or better. The company gets $.50 of it, the rest is cash in the driver’s pocket. This can be considered for various costs, but in the computers it is called “mileage,” which is assessed to each and every delivery. A driver can potentially get to keep the entire delivery charge based on performance, seniority, or doing the manager a favor by staying late, covering a shift, etc.

    Papa John’s operates on a VERY small profit margin. We’re talking 4-6%. What they’ve done now is adjusted the drivers’ hourly pay rate so that they get minimum wage ONLY when in the store, but when they’re clocked out on deliveries, their pay is adjusted to $4.55, making them more dependent on tips.

    It seems a lot of people don’t even understand how to tip a pizza guy, so I can’t really fault him for putting an X near the tip line. Delivery areas vary and it could’ve been that people routinely ignored the tip line out of ignorance. I can’t tell you how often people would just take a slip and scribble on it without even looking at the total or taking their copy, let alone try to figure a tip. Some also don’t realize you can add a tip if you’re writing a check.

    In these situations, I would politely ask if they’d like to leave a gratuity for their driver, and 9.8 times out of 10, they’d be more than happy to. The other .2, well, you take the bad with the good and roll on. You DO NOT adjust CC slips. That is no less than fraud, and stealing, no matter how big a jerk the person is who is stiffing you. Do you tip your waitress for carrying a plate of food to you from a kitchen 40 feet away? Then you gotta tip the drive who’s racing your food from MILES away, and do it mathematically, not a flat rate of a dollar. And don’t stiff someone because they put an X by the tip line.

  158. Nofsdad says:

    That “X” may have been there for senile oldsters like me that have never gotten used to tipping on a card and always have to ask someone where to enter it on the receipt, especially since every pizza place has their own format.

    I’ve always been an OP defender but this time I have to agree with many of the other commenters. The OP comes across as too cheap to tip the driver, looking for any excuse not to do so, and then was a jerk to the people on the phone… every temptation to violate the comment guidelines all rolled into one cheapskate elitist twit.

  159. Egakino says:

    oh and another thing I forgot to mention about pizza delivery, contrary to alot of the other posts drivers really don’t make a % tip on any delievery. For some reason people always tip the same amount no matter what unlike normal food service. For me in my area i could count on 99% of my tips to be exactly 3 dollars, no matter the order. My god would i have loved actual % tips

  160. Egakino says:

    @Dansc29625: People do tip the post man, every year around christmas, i have gotten tips pushing carts at grocery stores. Some are just more common than others

  161. 5h17h34d says:

    @Consumerist-Moderator-Roz: The best and most sensible comment in the entire thread and a moderator writes this?

    Common sense is your friend.

  162. I tip not because I give one rats ass about the economic situation my server/driver has found themselves in, but because I am selfish and self centered and want people to think I am generous and pleasant and that I should always get great service. My “will be delivered in 45 minutes” pizza always arrives piping hot in less than 20, meals at my favorite restaurants are always served according to my particularly specific tastes, and my bartender has my drink ready before I sit down. I always tip at least 25 to 30% (50% if the bill is small, 100% if the bill is cup of coffee small) regardless if the service is good, bad, or mediocre. I smile even when things are wrong and ALWAYS ask how their day has been.

    I’ve only had ONE bad experience at a restaurant in my LIFE and that involved a waiter basically throwing my plate down in front of me, splattering me with food and then bitching because I rearranged the sugar packets in their little dish (by color). I tipped him heavily AND left a note saying that I hoped his day got better. Know what? Every since then that waiter has given me IMPECCABLE service. People are motivated by praise, not punishment. If you want to get great service then be polite, gracious, and tip well.

    Not tipping says to the server “It’s not that you gave bad service…I’m just the kind of asshat that doesn’t tip.” No server says to themselves after you leave “I should have worked harder!” They say “What an asshat. I’m glad she’s gone. Next time I’ll pass that table off on someone else.” Think of it… do you ever stop during the middle of your work day and say “Damn, I should be working harder to make other people happy! I’m such a slacker! No wonder I’m not getting what I deserve!” No, you don’t. You think you’re doing a great job and when you get shit on you blame the other person.

    Tipping is the kind of positive reinforcement that makes people behave well. You train a dog with treats not tasers and you train the people around you to interact with you appropriately by rewarding them for every little effort they make.

    Remember… the person serving your food is just as self entitiled, narotic,and f’d up as you are.

  163. @Dansc29625:

    If you want to be called European, move to Europe.

    People do tip postmen although it is illegal for a federal employee to receive a gift over twenty dollars, I think. I once sent a ranger a pound of my favorite coffee because she did a great tour for a group we took to a National Park. She made it clear during her talk that she loved coffee so I figured it was appropriate. She wrote a nice letter back and said she wasn’t supposed to receive gifts but her boss knew better than to try to take coffee away from her.

    Fed Ex and UPS driver tend to make good $$$ and don’t expect their wage supplemented with tips. Although when I owned my own business I always gave my regular UPS driver a gift at Xmas and we invited him to PPV fights we had with friends.

    Generosity is appreciated and reciprocated by most thoughtful people.

  164. sinfonian94 says:

    I’m a Delivery Driver.
    Real simple.
    1) The driver is absolutely wrong for adding a tip that wasn’t added by the customer.
    2) Most places don’t give delivery fees to the driver. They do pay a Gas/Mileage reimbursement which ranges from 5% or the pretax order at Jimmy Johns (not NEARLY enough to even cover gas alone) to about a buck at Pizza Hut

    3) If you don’t want to tip a delivery driver, get in your own f’ing car and pick the pizza up, you lazy bastard!

  165. mannymix03 says:

    OP is a whiny baby.
    First off, I don’t care that the delivery driver marked it with an X to draw attention, he has probably been shortchanged a lot or people overlooked the tip spot. Give the kid a few bucks, Its the only way he can make nearly minimum wage (tipped employees can make almost $3-4 under minimum wage and depend on the tips to make money). Then the CSR is helping you out and apologizes and then you have the balls to call him out and be a dick to him too? It was an extra $6.42 you were charged and your being a dick to the guy who is trying to help you out and get it credited back to your account? You sir are the exact customer that I HATE helping and the one I strive to never be like. I wish more customers were understanding, but you take being an idiot to a whole new level, and of course the consumerist rewards this kind of behavior.

  166. Egakino says:

    @mannymix03: Drivers make above minimum wage as base and get a certain amount per run for fuel costs, When I did it I got $7 an hour and 70 cents a destination about 4 years ago. Waiters are the ones that can be paid under minimum wage not drivers.

    However, not tipping with out a moderate reason is kinda rude.

  167. bonzombiekitty says:

    @ryatziv: But the delivery charge doesn’t really go to the driver. The delivery charge is used to cover the expenses of making the delivery (i.e. gas, etc). Even with reimbursement, in most cases the driver is still being paid less than the wage they make due to the costs of making the delivery (especially now adays).

    Yes, tips are optional. However, it is ingrained into the US food service industry to the point that it is culturally not optional unless you got horrendous service. There’s really no getting around that.

    Wages are based off of the presumption of tips. I look at it this way: restaurants are more or less paying for the waiters to simply be present and rather than tacking on the cost of the server’s services (which is considerable more than their wage) onto the menu price, YOU are paying for it with what you deem a reasonable price.

  168. bonzombiekitty says:

    @Egakino: It’s probably because people see delivery as a one-off service. If you’re at a restaurant, the server greets you, gets you drinks, brings your food (possibly multiple times depending on what you order), checks on you, and clears your table. That inherently has more value than just dropping off food at your door. Since it’s a one shot deal, people are more likely to just assign a single value of driving something (no matter what it is) to your door and dropping it off.

  169. merekat says:

    My S.O. works at a Papa John’s as a driver so I will tell you about his experience. He is paid the state minimum wage (higher than federal mimimun wage), but the franchise owner regularly tries to cut wages, and pays new hires a lower than minimum wage, hence, they are often short on drivers. The owner charges a delivery fee, which is not passed on to the drivers. That goes straight into the owner’s pocket.

    My man is paid a commission of 7% on each delivery he makes, but when the minimum wage was raised, the owner toyed with the idea of getting rid of the commission or cutting it to a lower rate, but he didn’t when he realized he would lose his best drivers as a result.

    Think your driver doesn’t also cook your food or touch the register? Think again. The franchise owner has to pay inside staff a higher rate than drivers, so to cut costs, he will short staff the store, or let inside staff leave early. This means drivers make your pizza and man the phones and registers. Now does it begin to make sense why you pizza might take an hour or more to get to you, when it takes about 10 minutes to prepare and cook it?

    They also clean the store after closing. My guy works 10-12 hours, without a lunch/dinner break (or sick or vacation time), to bring people in the ghetto and downtown hotels and offices food. He actually loves his job – it’s stressful, and the money and customers sometimes suck, but it also an adventure every night.

    Still think your pizza delivery driver doesn’t deserve a tip? Get stuffed.

  170. Brunette Bookworm says:

    @Kajj: See, I was thinking about that too. What if it was the cashier who added that money to the total themself and took the money? Someone took it, yeah, and that’s wrong but Papa John’s said they would look into it. They responded quickly. It probably takes time because they probably have to get the signe dcredit card slip from the store. They didn’t ignore the OP and he is understandably upset about the overcharge, however, overcharges don’t just disappear right away. Give them a day or two to invetigate and refund the money before complaining about their service.

    Also, yeah, in the US it’s rude to not tip. Yes, the drivers may get the delivery fee but they don’t at all places. If it got there, was correct and on time, at least tip something. If the driver was helpful and courteous, tip more. I have to order food at work and since it’s alway large orders, I tip well. They usually have to make multiple trips up and down a few flights of stairs. Tipping well has done me a great service, though. The places we order from know me, get the food there quickly and will often give us discount or throw in extras. Niceness gets you further than being rude.

  171. Rectilinear Propagation says:

    Seriously Roz, are you going to ban half the people in this thread?

    @twophrasebark: Everyone in this thread should have read the Consumerist Comment Code. If half of them choose to ignore it and get banned that’s on them.

    There is a difference between saying the OP is wrong for not tipping or being short with the CSR guy and saying that the OP deserved to have his money stolen.

    If people deserved to have crimes committed against them they wouldn’t be crimes. The OP doing something people don’t like isn’t not an excuse for theft. It’s not even close.

  172. stezton says:

    We avoid the tip issue in the first place by picking it up ourselves. Our PJ isn’t too far and we always get it faster and fresher. :)

  173. Consumerist-Moderator-Roz says:

    @dveight: This is a warning. You know that you’re violating the rules; you chose to do it anyway. No more.

  174. Ben Popken says:

    Comments are being turned off on this post due to consistent disregard for the Consumerist Comments Code.