Reader Kyle, like so many of us, would rather Comcast not dig up his property without asking, especially when they are a) running cable for his neighbor b) mysteriously avoiding an area near the curb where they could have run the cable without disturbing his yard. To add insult to (landscaping) injury, when he asked the Comcast workers to stop digging they refused, and when he called Comcast to ask them to tell the workers to stop, they also refused, then hung up on him.
Kyle says:
I’m in the basement playing video games and my wife calls down to me, telling me that there are two guys digging in our front yard. I run up stairs to check it out, and they tell me that they’re running cable to my neighbor’s house. I would have no problem with this, except that they were running the line through my yard, and not through the other patch of grass near the curb where they should have been running it. I spoke to one of them and asked why they didn’t ask me if they could dig on my property, and he gave me some noise about needing to run it over here because of the line signal. I told him to stop digging for a few minutes while I spoke with someone at Comcast.
I call the local number, navigate the tree and finally get in touch with a human being. For the first time in probably 3 years, I did not confirm the woman’s name before continuing. I explained the situation and she tells me that she can’t do anything about it. I ask to be put in touch with someone who can do something about it. She asks me for either my phone number or my account number, both of which I decline to provide. She continues saying that she’s trying to help me, I inform her that she does not need my phone number to transfer me to someone who can help me. She asks if I’m a Comcast customer, I say yes, but also tell her that it doesn’t matter; if I was a Dish customer, they still wouldn’t be able to dig in my yard.
At this point she starts trying to talk over me, and I raise my voice to drown her attempts to talk over me. Then she hangs up on me. I’m researching DirecTV and Dish as we speak.
We asked Comcast for their official lawn digging policy, but our email went unanswered at the time of this post. Kyle says that the Comcast workers did a good job covering up where they were digging, but he’s “just irritated that two Comcast techs took it upon themselves to start digging on private property when there is an area near the curb that they could have used that isn’t my property.” He also adds: “The real test will come in next several days, seeing if any of that grass ends up dying.”
Since we don’t know Comcast’s official policy about digging up your lawn, we’ll just refer our readers to their official coffee making policy. It is totally irrelevant, but quite comprehensive.
Kyle sends an update:
Comcast has an easement on the property on the other side of the sidewalk, a strip of grass roughly 3 feet wide directly next to the curb. This same strip of grass is where the box is located, in front of my other neighbor’s house.
Had they used this area (and this area only) I would have had no problem. Instead, they also used a part of my yard, which is not fenced. There is no easement on my property, aside from that “communal” strip of grass.
Comcast has written us back and will be investigating the issue further, but in the meantime, Frank, Comcast’s Twitter-jockey, says:
“The rules and policies regarding utility easements vary by municipality guidelines. It is always our goal to do any type of digging in the least intrusive manner possible. “
Frank from Comcast sends another update. He says that Comcast was within its legal rights to dig up Kyle’s lawn, but admits that it could have been handled better. (Like, by not hanging up on him.)
As a quick follow up regarding this situation. The place where work was being done was in the utility easement for [redacted], which is 12 feet from the curb. We are working with the Customer to learn more of his experience and improve it for others. But ultimately we could have done a better job of explaining what we were doing and what an easement is.
Yay, communication.
(Photo: u2acro )
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@Veeber:
In most cities, there’s a “Call Before You Dig” law that holds you responsible for any damage if you don’t have somebody come out and map out where the utilities are.
Although there is almost always a right of way for the roadway and easements for utilities, I would certainly not just accept at face value that they were using the ROW/easement and not your private property. If you do, then you open yourself up to losing whatever property you allowed them to work on. Not a good idea.
Then again, if I did own any property (which I don’t, because I wasn’t smart enough to get a home loan and subsequently get bailed out), I would certainly have a map showing exactly where my property line was, where the ROW was, and where any easements are located.
When we bought our house in Vermont, our realtor went over all the easements on our property. She even gave us a map of the property with markings of where the underground phone, power, cable, water/sewer lines were. We were also informed at the closing that in our subdivision, we would only have a day’s notice if Verizon, Adelphia (now Comcast),Green Mountain Power, etc. would be digging unless it was an emergency.
I don’t believe that cable companies have been lumped into the “utility easement” category.
If I remember correctly it only applies to railroads, electric, gas, and most recently, telephone companies.
That being said, call the police and let them sort it out.
<<< 911 what is the nature of your emergency?
- There are 2 men trespassing on my lawn and digging in my yard with no permission.
<<
- (dials local constables office) ring ring . . . ring ring . . ring ring . .ring ring . . . ring ring . . ring ring . . >insert 35 minutes here< ring ring . . . ring ring . . ring ring . . hangs up
<<< 911 what is the nature of your emergency?
- I called a while back about some trespassing, remember me? I called the other number and no one answered.
<<< Are the 2 men still trespassing?
- No, thanks to your efficient policing they left already.
<<< We’re glad to be of service.
My townhouse is a bit different. Private lines to the townhouse, yes, they can dig up because, well, you’re requesting it.
I don’t know about the laws of easements though, but like to know. If this happened to me, I would have stayed on the side of defending my propery and pulled my 9mm and tell them to get off my property or I will shoot to kill.
@Rachacha: Verizon did this in the form of a letter to me, before, during, and after. Even though it wasn’t my property (it was on public land, but unsightly), they wanted people to know that they were there and to be careful of the newly dug holes.
I thought it was nice of them.
I would go with the sprinkers. Once they left, I would buy one of those motion detectors for the sprinklers (the kind that are meant for deer) that just come on when they come within range.
@iMike: I had a similar situation with a contractor that was working for CenterPoint Energy and repairing a gas main. I came home from work to find the walkway to my backdoor GONE! I asked the site foreman what they were doing and he told me that it was none of my damn business. I called the PD, which was three blocks away and they sent two units and a field supervisor out. I used to belong to that department so they figured there was real problem.
When the lieutenant asked what they were doing, he got a similar response. By that time, they had most of the street in front of my house dug up. The lieutenant asked to see his city permits and guess what? He had none. Site manager got a trip to the PD in the back of a patrol car and the equipment was seized by the PD. Two days later, a crew came out to fix my walkway and the street.
About a month after that, a rep from CenterPoint Energy came to my house and ASKED PERMISSION to have access to the underground main that ran under my yard. I granted the crew access to my yard they were done in less than a day. The other crew? Fired and prosecuted for “willful destruction of public property and criminal mischief over $1000″ both felonies in the state of Arkansas.
@linus:
If you did that, you’d go to jail. You can’t use deadly force (generally) unless you reasonably believe that your life is in danger. I imagine your locality has a law against brandishing a firearm as well. I imagine that also violates criminal assault laws in your area. Good try though.
@InfiniTrent:
No such right exists in any state as far as I know. Even utility companies do not have an unlimited right to access your property.
As mentioned previously, an easement grants specfic rights, but only within the easement. And those rights are limited. An easement is not the same as a dedicated right-of-way. A property owner still has rights to use an easement with certain limitations. A property owner pays taxes on an easement. A dedicated right-of-way becomes the property of whoever it is dedicated to.
“They could pave it over if they wanted to. You can’t deny them access to it.”
Easements do not give utilities the right to do what ever they want with the land. In order to access the easement they have to get an encroachment permit from the local goverment. When power, gas, or telecoms have to do any digging or any line work that involves placing equipment on the easement they are required to get an encroachment permit. Every encroachment permit i have ever seen from any state always require the working agency to leave the site of encroachment in the same state that it was before they started work.
Who you want to contact is the public works dept, they will have the say over the encroachment permits. And they do the site inspection before and after the work is complete.
As a rule, cable and satellite companies are not considered public utilities. Therefore, ROW’s and easements DO NOT APPLY. Tell them to leave or you will have them removed by the police. And call the police in front of them and stand there until they arrive.
There was major (fences pulled down, backhoes involved) digging in my backyard last summer because of a storm drain collapse, and you better believe I learned about easements. And had a lawyer.
While there’s almost certainly a utilities easement on Kyle’s property, it’s not uncommon for utilities/towns to believe an easement gives them more rights than it does, and it’s not uncommon for homeowners to think that easements are more restricted than they are. However, if Kyle doesn’t know the terms of the easements on his own property, he’s likely SOL in arguing about this, and he’d be wise to do some research both on the plat maps and in the relevant recorder of deeds office (they’re not always listed on the title any more). Easement terms vary–the put-things-back-the-way-they-were principle is by no means a given, for instance. And this kind of complication is why the cops probably wouldn’t get involved if you called them–this is a civil dispute about easements.
At this point it sounds like what’s done is done. If he wants to contest it, he probably needs a lawyer as well as his property docs. I suppose there might be some advance warning requirement that got breached–he could try municipal or state folks to see if there are any restrictions on a utility’s non-emergency access where he lives.
That shit wouldnt happen in Texas thats for sure.
@newfenoix: That’s awesome. Did the Site manager get jail time?
@newfenoix: cable is included in the public utilities for easement purposes in my state, and in the communities I got quick Google results on. But I would agree it’s possible that it’s not included anywhere and that that’s another good thing for Kyle to check on.
@Pylon83: There have been a few cases in VA (where I live) and MD where people have dressed up as Comcast and Verizon to rob people. Since I don’t know what they are doing on my property, and they haven’t notified me of what they are doing, I would ask them to tell me. If they refused, I would go into defensive mode.
I can’t protect my property, but I can make darn sure that they don’t come after me.
@newfenoix:
That’s wholly untrue. The cable companies franchise agreement with the city effectively makes them “utilities” and grants them access to the easements. Perhaps a little research next time before making such statements.
Bugger. “anywhere” s/b “everywhere,” of course.
@linus:
Well, when they are digging up your lawn and preparing to bury cable, it’s pretty obvious what they are doing. Brandishing a firearm is clearly unwarranted and SHOULD land you in jail.
@linus: Also, they would be considered the agressors since they came onto my property.
Right/Wrong/Easement/Whatever, as hard as I work on my lawn, if I saw someone digging it up… instant batshit. At the VERY least, I would have been leaning on the sprinkler start button. Depending upon my mood that day, it might have suddenly been time to take the dog for a walk… if’n you know what I mean. *psst, Daisy, no… down… no really, don’t do that.. oh Daisy, you bad, bad, dog*
@Pylon83:
How is that? That would be a matter of opinion, unless you can read people’s minds.
You’re telling me you can read people’s minds? If that’s the case, you and me should get into business!
@allthatsevil: Exactly! Did you notice that alot more people became alot nicer once the concealed weapons permits were issued. You never know who is packing
@linus:
Well, in court, the question will be “what would a reasonable person think they are doing”. I imagine that most “Reasonable” people would think they are burying a cable and not go get their gun in fear for their lives.
@Pylon83: I’m glad your so trusting of people. I’m not.
I don’t want to get into an argument with you. The point is you would have handled it differently than I. I may have gotten in trouble with the law, but that’s the risk I openly take to defend myself.
@Landru: I think a regular hose with a nice strong nozzle attached would be more effective.
@Pylon83
I would double check. A few years back some idiot from AT&T wanted to run something through my yard, and claimed an easement. They were only about 10 ft off! Turns out they do have an easement, but only 6″ of the easement was left. Apparently the city laid a sidewalk over the top of it more than a decade prior. AT&T, hoping I wouldn’t notice, tried anyway. Thank goodness the was at home for lunch!
After much verbal haranguing, and a land survey later, I told AT&T to blow me due to their attitude throughout the whole ordeal. At one point they threatened to sue me.
Long story short, check it out. Should the easement not exist (and don’t doubt that it won’t if it’s more than 5′ into your property) call them up demanding removal AND repair. Should an easement exist, check it very, very, very carefully. You’ll probably find they f*cked up and can get a removal and repair. The second happened to my parents with the power company.
This is why I own a gun. I am not going to be asking nicely without insisting heavily that they remove themselves from private property. I wouldn’t shoot them in any case, but why are you tresspassing? They could not dig up city property without permits…..so why mine?
@linus: Yes he did. He and his boss also had to reimburse the city for the expense of repairing their damage.
I would imagine they do have the right to dig there. In Canada (at least Ontario) The government owns around 30 feet to either side of all roads. So unless you have a rather deep yard they cut through it was probably legal. It would be nice however if Comcast (and others) would at least knock on the door and tell you they will be cutting through your yard.
@Pylon83: I am a former cop and BY LAW cable companies ARE NOT public utilities. Take your own advice.
@Pylon83: ABSOLUTELY right, except that the workers didn’t use the easement on the property and instead dug private property. given that Kyle knows what he is talking about
True, most people have no idea what their easment is. When buying my house I obtained a plat with easements clearly defined — 25 feet to either side of the centerline of the street. There is also a small lot on the end of my street that was left specifically for utility access to the areas behind our houses.
Didn’t really matter much to the Verizon contractors who drove heavy equipment in my neighbor’s yard (well past the 25′ mark) to get to the buffer. Once in his backyard they discovered he had a fence and could not proceed so they tore up his yard trying to get their equipment turned around. They then drove through my yard but were gone by the time I was able to get home & call law enforcement.
We had company names, license plates, pictures of damage… 4 weeks of phone calls to Verizon and they would only offer to send a bag of grass seed. Never got an explanation why they were so far past the easement without permission.
So no I’m not surprised, the contractors want to get in and get out and not have to deal with asking for permission.
@newfenoix:
Former COP doesn’t mean you know the law. Most cops I’ve encountered have a very skewed view of what the law is. That’s why they don’t get to actually prosecute people. They leave that to the lawyers. Read up on Franchise agreements and get back to me.
If it happens again, call the police. The police will know where the easements are, and will be able to arrest people that are destroying your property, especially when you have told them to stop destroying your property, multiple times.
@dmann99:
Generally companies are allowed to take necessary action to access the easement. For example, if the easement happened to be at the back of the property, they can drive their equipment back there if necessary.
@scerwup:
The police will not know where the easements are unless they happen to have a copy of the deed/survey/plat map with them. People put too much stock in the legal knowledge of police officers.
plot plan or lot map
@Veeber: A judge would not look kindly on this sort of behavior. And that might be at a criminal trial.
@newfenoix:
Shenanigans on that claim – laws are different in different jurisdictions. Maybe it was even true in the city/county/state that you claim you served; does not mean for a second it’s true everywhere else or even anywhere else.
@Pylon83: Generally isn’t even close. All states have different rules. Texas, for example, is a defense of property state. You can defend not only yourself, but your property from harm. In Texas, if they’re on your property and damaging it without asking permission, you don’t have to shoot them, but you may most certainly point and tell them to cut it out.
The problem, is that Linus’ home state is a “duty to retreat” state. That means he’s can’t go pick a fight with a lineman and expect not to go to jail. In VA, you have a duty to retreat from a confrontation until that option is removed. Someone breaks into your house, you have to retreat until you can no longer retreat, and THEN you can kill them. You can also kill to defend someone else who is in mortal danger. Meaning, If I still lived there, I could kill Linus for shooting at a defenseless lineman who is doing his job.
@linus: Frankly, you make the rest of us look bad. Someone needs to take whatever firearm you have away from you. You obviously aren’t mature enough to even hold it, nevermind use it.
Good job, Kyle. Have to watch those contractors. My family ran into an easement problem with Comcast contractors, too. The only reason we knew they were out of bounds was because we’d gone through a property-line dispute with our neighbor the year before which brought out everything. We even had maps to show the workers, but it still took a supervisor visit to stop the work and a letter from our attorney before they paid for the replanting. None of them ever deviated from their position that they had the right-of-way. Even the payment was a “courtesy.” They must all attend the same class.
pylon
What’s the deal? A simple “Whoops, my comments were based on incorrect assumptions” would win more points than this continual and often OT bickering with other posters.
I have a funny feeling Comcast is going down in the next years…. It is almost as if I am the Oracle and I see the future of Comcast..
Constantly in the news and always negative or bad public image…jeez..the CEO should be fed up by now…
@Elvisisdead:
Generally is close. You can’t use deadly force unless you believe your life is in danger or you are facing sever bodily harm. In most states, it’s assumed your life is in danger in the case of a home intruder. A comcast guy on the lawn burying cable isn’t even close to that. I do agree that Linus has no business owning a firearm.
@nequam: Law is always a matter of opinion. So are strikes and balls in a baseball game. But in both cases, there’s only one opinion that means anything.
Rather than worry about digging it up, you might want to take this tack. Go and check to see if the cable is buried in their easement or not. Check your house deed and verify this, mark the easement off with something small and inobtrusive (like a big 10penny nail hammered into the ground.) If the line is buried inside your property, feel free to invoice Comcast for their rental of your land, making sure to add appropriate fees for their work and leaving equipment behind when they left without a proper agreement in place. It’s not cheap to lease land for utilities. The cell phone tower companies pay people hundreds or thousands of dollars a month for the access and placement of their towers on someone’s land. You should get paid too! It’ll also cost them a significant fee to have their people come and take OUT the line, as well, remember.
tell them to stop, that you know they are just trying to do their job, but you won’t allow them to run it through their yard, and you’ll call the police if they don’t get off your property immediately.
if after telling the person(s) to stop digging on my “private” property, i would’ve just “1,2″ knocked there ass(es) out & let them call the cops, as i call a lawyer for suit against comcast. payback’s a bitch comcast chumps…
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