Let’s say you are in the military and have to undergo some training before you are deployed to Iraq to fight in a war. Let’s also say that this training requires to you bring 3 bags of equipment. If the airline you’re flying charges a $100 “excess baggage” fee, but waives the $15 first checked bag fee, and the $25 second checked bag fee… is that “generous?”
American’s policy allows military personnel “one checked 100-pound duffel-type bag, one standard checked 50-pound suitcase and one standard carry-on suitcase of up to 40 pounds.” They’re getting “a total of 190 pounds of free luggage,” said airline spokesman Tim Wagner, in an e-mail to the El Paso Times.
Staff Sgt. Ashley Serrano doesn’t see it that way. He says that other airlines see his uniform and waive their baggage fees. “I have flown Southwest, Continental, and when they saw me in uniform, they didn’t even ask,” Serrano said. “I flew American a couple of times before, but I never had this problem.”
Serrano said he was confronted Friday at the El Paso International Airport with a demand for $100 for his third bag, and when he mentioned he was headed for Camp Bowie – where Texas Army National Guard soldiers train before deployment – he said they told him, without a smile, that the Army should have given him a voucher. Serrano’s fellow soldier and traveling companion had three extra bags and was charged $300, he said.
“I am not aware of any ability by our agents to waive an excess baggage fee, even for military personnel – since they already have the common checked bag fees waived in our policy,” [an American Airlines spokesperson] said. “Otherwise, our policy is very generous as you can see, and intentionally so. We’re very proud of our military forces – and many of our employees began their flying careers with the military – so we’re pleased to be able to help.”
Serrano doesn’t seem to think the policy is generous.
“You couldn’t fit it all into two (checked) bags if you tried,” he told the paper.
Airline baggage fees hit soldier flying out of El Paso for training [El Paso Times] (Thanks, Gabe!)
(Photo: benh57 )
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@katylostherart: You also like making arguments that have nothing to do with the point. You seem to be saying that as long as a public servant (cop, fireman, teacher, armed forces, politician, politician staffers, etc) NEED the items, the fees should be waived.
That is, point blank, stupid. They should pay and the government should reimburse the company. Or the government, when making travel arrangements should pay in advance. Not so hard.
@ffmariners: then they do what my boss does and ships them there ahead of time. if you’ve ever tried to fedex to an apo, let me tell you it’s nearly impossible. fedex to a hotel room, pretty freakin easy. i can guarantee you conferences are planned out well in advance, i’ve seen guys that have two days to get their crap together before being shipped out.
you’re also assuming that a senator’s assistant and the like don’t put company equipment on company invoices. clothes and suits are considered personal equipment and could be put all in one bag for carry on. cameras are very doubtfully considered such and can be billed to the company. all the equipment soldiers wear (uniforms, boots, armor, patches, etc) are considered personal equipment after purchase from the px despite the person themselves being considered gov’t property. but it’s not personal equipment that they can just purchase again on arrival unlike a suit or a pair of nice shoes.
the staffer also will not go to jail for just walking away from their job. a governor can resign, a soldier has to be released. you’re trying to say that these are the same jobs with the same consequences just because they’re gov’t/public sector. they’re really not and they shouldn’t be treated as such.
@ffmariners: and i didn’t say public servants, i said soldiers. and only soldiers. you don’t seem to understand the difference in job descriptions.
@katylostherart: So the public servant that is non military should spend a substantial portion of his pay to either ship what he needs or buy more once he gets there (only to throw it away or pay for return baggage fees)? OH OK.
And what if this staffer is going to a military base?
And no… I never said they are the same jobs with the same consequences. But they are both public servant jobs, and should both be treated the same. You can’t make exceptions just because the Army does not have an organized system of payment.
@katylostherart: What about a fireman taking all his gear because he is going to fight wildfires?
Surely, he is risking his life. Maybe he is going voluntarily (but the military person DID voluntarily enter, unless we have a draft now?) but that is a moot point.
You want to try and play games with the system.
Why are you so against the military complex paying ahead of time? They can pay billions for WMD but can not figure out how to pay for baggage fees ahead of time?
@AD8BC: @kepler11: Military personnel are all heroes, no matter what their job. How would you like to do their job?
I don’t care how mundane their particular job is. They signed up to put their lives on the line if called…. Neither you, nor myself for that matter, is worthy to breathe the same air or walk on the same ground as a soldier.
I feel very bad for you. You truly have been brainwashed by the media/movies/tv to think this about people in the military. People who sign up for the military are no different from anyone else in our country. They are not some special breed of altruistic, morally superior person. Certainly some of them do more dangerous jobs than the rest of us, but their motivations are not as pure as you think, and they aren’t doing it for free. You should stop and meet a few and see how normal they are. They are not deserving of god-worship. You should question your assumptions once in a while.
@katylostherart: @kepler11: if a soldier is travelling as part of his orders he should get extra consideration. if he is going to disneyland and just happens to be in the army, he should pay the fee.
yeah, obviously we’re talking about going to duty, not disneyland. The whole point of my post was to ask you, for example, how much extra consideration should he get? how many pounds? And will you (and others) let the airline charge the extra bag fee once the soldier goes over that new pound limit, or will you still accuse them of not respecting the troops?
@ffmariners: so what’s good for the goose is good for the gander? do you realize if we applied that concept to everything humanity would cease to exist?
so everyone pays the checked bag fee and those who CAN avoid it do and those who can’t are just screwed.
so you say they are not the same jobs nor do they have the same consequences but that should be treated the same.
so 1=1=8? you can make exceptions. aa could make exceptions. but asking a corporation to do something out of kindness, or even most people to have some sort of sympathy about things like this is too difficult. this is why the world is so screwed up. people just can’t seem to imagine that little things like this rididculous checked bag fee make basic life impossible for some people.
a public servant that is non military that MUST fly as part of their job is *probably* not spending any of their own money on the travel. they are definitely not spending their own money to haul office equipment with them.
how often do you think a cop would fly on a plane as part of duty? because their jurisdiction usually ends at whatever county/state/town/precinct line they’re hired in. what about a teacher?
soldiers and other military personnel can spend the entire first year of enlistment going somewhere new every month after basic. i just don’t understand this. you admit that their jobs are not the same but that the same rules should apply? that makes no sense. it is not stupid to expect different situations to have different rules and policies. it is stupid to apply the same rule to situations that are not similar.
@kepler11: i dunno. considering they’re allowed to march them around with packs that are half their body weight it would be dependent on invididual soldiers. it’s just like i’ve sat with these kids in the uso thing and it’s not like they like having to haul around 2-3 full duffel bags of crap that is considered the minimum to bring. this is just adding to the burden for them. and sparing this cost for soldiers would not hurt aa’s bottom line. that’s the real kicker. this is nickel and diming people who don’t have a way to avoid it.
it’s not a matter of respecting troops to me. it’s just trying to be a decent human being. if i had it my way they wouldn’t be allowed to charge for one bag if there was a diaper bag in the carry on because that obviously took the place of something that would’ve normally gone on free.
people seriously, have a heart. you’re fighting for people that WANT to rip you off because it ends up adding another nickel per bag to a group of ceos that already make millions a year.
You are applying an exception based on emotion.
By waiving the fee the airline will need to cover the costs regardless. Prices go up, we pay.
By charging the fee, the government pays (not the soldier, albeit they may front the money). This comes from taxes, which may increase the slightest bit which in turn means we pay.
If we expect other jobs to expense their baggage fees, we should have that as a general rule… because, once again, all you are doing is making an emotional plea. IN THE END… WE PAY! You just don’t want the soldier to have to front the money OR the government to have to pay in advance.
By waiving the fee the costs do not dissappear.
@katylostherart: You seem to think the airline won’t be making the money.
“Have a heart” = emotional plea
They will make the money regardless, just whether or not its from a direct government payment or higher prices for everyone, is the question.
@ffmariners: if that was honestly the case, of this being a necessary cost, then EVERY airline would be doing this. i have yet to see virgin atlantic nickel and diming all of its services out. british air doesn’t, neither does aer lingus.
this fee DOES NOT have anything to do with actual loss of profit. it’s just something else people will stupidly put up with because they think they have no choice.
@ffmariners: no you seem to think the airline won’t be making money. you’re defending the airline as if not charging this fee will sink the company. if they didn’t charge for ANY checked bag it wouldn’t sink the company. most people don’t generally bring entire households with them to the airport to fly.
@ffmariners: and there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to alleviate some pain for your fellow man.
i would personally pay for kindness over convenience. people not doing so lose some of their humanity.
I feel compelled to defend AA although I would rather not. Hopefully will clear up thie misleading story. I recently returned from Iraq in late May 08 and was the victim of the new baggage fees. My commercial leg of my flight wasn’t booked until 4 days prior to my departure and therefore I wasn’t grandfathered in having not purchased my ticket before the airline’s new policy went into effect. All branches of the military make it mandatory for each uniformed service member to apply for and use a government travel card (the current contract is though BOA…a VISA) and its use is mandatory for all official travel. Most service members have one and only those with the worst credit rating are unable to obtain one. That being said, the baggage fees are a reimbursable expense and can be paid for with the government travel card with no expense incurred by the traveling service member. At the conclusion of official travel, the hardest part is finding the receipt for the excess baggage fees and filling out the travel voucher. The government pays the fees as they did mine. The military contracted portion of my travel ended in Baltimore and from there I had to fly Delta to the Tampa area. I was traveling with 4 bags, two of them over the 70 pound limit and my excess baggage fees were over $400.00. That’s a lot of gear to haul and the airlines have every right to charge for it. What’s lost on most people is that the fees were passed right to the taxpayers. Everybody who pays taxes paid in one shape or another…not me.
If it’s military-related baggage, it needs to be transported free-of-charge. Period.
If military personnel refuse to pay these outrageous fees, and refuse to board without their equipment, then they won’t be able to report to their assigned destinations on time.
The military will surely step in at this point, and AA will find it’s feet being held to the Congressional flames.
Perhaps a better solution than the back and forth about “do military personnel deserve x, y, or z?” is if American really wants/needs to charge an excess baggage fee, charge the amount for the first and second checked bag on the third checked bag. Paying 40 dollars is a heck of a lot more acceptable than 100 dollars and more PR friendly. 15 would be better, but that would totally be pushing it.
The last time I was in ATL I saw over 200 soldiers at the USO waiting to ship out for a tour in Iraq. How shameful for the airlines to try to squeeze money out of military personnel, especially since enlisted don’t make much money in the first place.
@katylostherart: people seriously, have a heart. you’re fighting for people that WANT to rip you off because it ends up adding another nickel per bag to a group of ceos that already make millions a year.
Once again, all I’m asking you is a simple question. What should the airline set as its limit over which the soldier will be charged? Name a figure in pounds, at which they can be said to have a heart.
How else is the airline supposed to operate?
@cyberscribe: No they wont, because the government will reimburse the soldier.
@katylostherart: Last I checked the airlines ARENT making money… has that not already been established on the consumerist?
I’m kind of torn on this one.
One one hand, if I owned a business that provided a service (food, travel, lodging, etc.) I would give a discount to anyone whose service includes putting their lives on the line for me (regardless of whether that’s what their job actually entailed vs. protecting resources we want, international interests, etc.) such as military personnel, police officers, firefighters, EMTs, etc.
On the other hand, I’m a libertarian and believe in the rights of businesses to CHOOSE to do that. Just because I would, as a theoretical entrepreneur give discounts or freebies to military and law enforcement (and worked in prior establishments which did so) doesn’t mean everyone HAS to, and I have to support AA’s right to say no.
I mean, our servicemen *are* meant to be fighting for freedom, and the freedoms of the United States include the freedom of our businesses to NOT be forced to engage in business practices for the benefit of the government or anyone else.
Of course, we as consumers also have the freedom to tell them to go f**k themselves if we disagree with their policies toward the military servicemen (or anyone, really) by voting with our wallets.
If it’s for training, doesn’t the DOD pick up the tab? If that’s not the case, shouldn’t it be?
Why should the airlines be on the hook for shipping soldier’s equipment around the country? Their employer, the government, should give them an allowance for these fees.
@cyberscribe: Then the personnel will also take heat for failing to be at an appointed place at an appointed time.
@Jesse in Japan:
Even of the soldier is reimbursed, it still comes out of their pocket until repaid. Based on my wife’s experience, that can sometimes be quite a long term interest free loan to the government.
@kepler11:
Maybe AA could approach the DOD and help them set up a system to direct bill the military. That would be helpful to the soldiers, probably save everyone a few bucks due to efficiencies and economies of scale, and might even look good. Hard to call yourself “generous” when the other airlines are outdoing you in the same situation.
This is really a problem with the DoD.
The military should be repaying the soldier promptly for any fees during official travel. He shouldn’t be paying his own way. The military should find the most cost effective way to get him to his destination, and reimbursing him in full if he has to front the money (which shouldn’t be necessary IMHO).
I suspect he was supposed to get a voucher as suggested above, and in the crazyness before deployment just got mixed up.
Regardless… this is a government problem. US Companies shouldn’t be giving the government discounts while raping consumers.
And soldiers shouldn’t be paying for things the military should be covering. He shouldn’t need to carry anything other than ID and an e-ticket to get on a plane. The military should cover the rest of his accommodations.
Perhaps I’m being a tad too liberal here, but if we weren’t sending tens of thousands of troops to bases and overseas in the first place, wouldn’t comping a few bags be less of an issue?
@digitalgimpus: IAWTC
@ffmariners: Yes we would be bitching if it was a Senator traveling and complained that he had to pay for his bags. The difference is, the Senator isn’t carrying three bags of gear mandated by the government, most of which will keep him alive.
Military people face a lot. If they get orders to go, they go. Should the extra baggage costs be dealt with in the orders? Yes. If they are not, there should be some way for the airlines to bill the government after the fact, rather than let the military member have to pony up money on the spot just to go and do his or her job.
I took my husband to the airport once. 6 green duffel bags filled with government supplies. And a small green metal tin with a handgun. Of course TSA really had a field day with that one.
He was headed to Iraq. 6 bags on the cart. Commercial flights for a portion of the trip, but no one made mention of the extra weight.
It is the rare business traveler that faces the real possibility of making his or her return trip home down in cargo. In a box.
That’s why there ought not to be such a headache over the excess baggage.
I don’t think that these soldiers should even get the other freebies that other “civilians” don’t. As many have stated, this is a DoD problem, not an airline problem. The soldiers have to pay out of pocket and then get reimbursed? Uh yeah, so? I and many others have to do the exact same thing when we travel for business. Blame the management, not the places *gasp* charging these people money for services rendered.
Now i’ll go wave my flag 100 times as penance because i’m probably not seen as blindly supporting the troops.
I do think AA and every other airline out there that are increasing bag fees and every other cost cutting measure are sharks for the outrageous fees that they’re now charging. (and AA is just a poor airline regardless)
But I also think it’s not their responsibility to subsidize people’s business expenses, regardless of that persons job or salary. And when you take away the title ‘soldier’, that’s really what this boils down to.
I’ve traveled for work plenty of times, and a couple times when I couldn’t afford a pot to piss in. In the end my employer reimbursed me for my travel expenses. The government should do the same.
I keep reading these posts that cry fowl because AA isn’t ‘doing the right thing’ and doesn’t ‘have a heart.’ Why aren’t any of you that are crying fowl suggesting that the military pay for our troops’ excess baggage via our tax dollars? How is this different than any other employee/employer relationship?
Maybe they’re war profiteers like Cheney.
I think its worth noting (I haven’t seen it here) that the government handles security for the airlines (who pass the cost onto us) AND the air traffic control system that supports this industry. reimbursement or not, they shouldn’t be hastling our men and women in the service (or civil servants for that matter) The government probably pays much more for these flights give ntheir propensity to making last minute changes to soldiers schedules. All that money goes to the airlines. If nothign else a volume discount is in order with regards to baggage.
WTH are they putting into jetfuel that is making it so expensive, stem cell and fetal tissue stew?
I am actually quite interested to see what is going to be the breaking point between the consumers and the airlines. Are we really going to go back to the days of riding the rails across the states? Good Times!
As a military member (who paid $100 4 months ago on my way to Iraq) I find this complete absurd.
Damn near everything is reimbursable during deployment – I claim everything, mileage to the airport, baggage carts at the airport, the bottle of water from the news stand, the hotel in Baltimore – keep your receipts.
You should have a Government Travel Card – USE IT! In the Air Force, even our plane tickets get stuck on the GTC. If you don’t have a GTC they can place the tickets on your orders and you are then expected to request a paycheck advance so you have cash-on-hand to pay these travel expenses.
When you land in country (or during training) one of the first things you do is file an accrual travel voucher. This is where you claim everything you spent on the way over and in about a week your reimbursement is direct deposited into your account.
The person in this post was a SSG (E-6) in the Army, one full grade ahead of myself SSgt (E-5) in the Air Force. I know I have $300 sitting around for emergency use (like this situation), especially if I knew it would be back in my account (plus some) within a week. If you are an NCO, without an emergency fund, well – you don’t deserve to be an NCO. You’re a horrible example to your troops and you can’t possibly take care of them when they need you.
Lastly, why complain? If you paid for the baggage that means you can file an accrual voucher. Everytime you file an accrual voucher they calculate your per diem and throw it on top. This means the $3.25 you earn every day is now in your bank account, earning you interest, rather than Uncle Sam’s pocket.
BTW: Military, for the same reason, start your Family Separation as soon as you can (30 days after separation) – deposit it all into the Savings Deposit Program. After 6 months, you’ve earned a free $150 (from $1,530 to $1,680).
@thefastest: Before you go spouting off, you might want to check your facts. Rates for Fedex for 3 packages weighing a total of 190lbs from ElPaso to Camp Bowie are NOT cheap.
Overnight delivery by 10:30am 852.45
Overnight Delivery by 3:00pm 812.28
2nd Day, delivery by 4:30pm 353.19
3rd day, delivery by 4:30pm 283.33
Ground (2nd day delivery) 84.54
So sure, the OP could save money by shipping his bags, and waiting for 2 business days, but I don’t think his superiors will be too happy when he shows up for training wearing only his boxers!
No disrespect to the OP (or any military), but the US Government will reimburse you for any travel related expenses.
Govt fact sheet on baggage allowance:
[www.gsa.gov]
Baggage fees depend on whether the OP booked a commercial flight (through American, or travelocity etc.) or a flight through the government travel system (Commercial bookings, you pay the fee, government bookings you don’t)
Would it be great if airlines directly billed the government for extra baggage fees for the troops…sure, but 1) now the airlines have to develop a system to track it, and 2) the government needs to find a way to verify the charges were vaild (accountability). Having the traveler pay and requesting reimbursement is the most efficient way of handling this issue.
Ridiculous that the airlines said that kind of thing to the soldier. Considering the amount of money that the airlines get from the Civil Reserve Air Fleet (i.e. federal assistance for plane leases in exchange for the military to use them in a time of war) as well as various and sundry bailouts, not to mention the fact that these guys lay down their lives for us pencil pushers (I’m a pencil pusher), they deserve fair treatment.
@Puck: It’s true they will probably be reimbursed (assuming they keep track of the receipts and other paperwork and have a good leadership that gets these kind of things taken care of), but it’s not the same as a professional traveling for business. It’s like taking the guys in the mailroom and sending them on a business trip. They don’t travel much, don’t know the ins and outs of the system, may not have a credit card and don’t have enough money to cover a big cash charge. ATMs and such make it easier, but they still need to have money in the bank.
An E-3 with less than 2 years in makes about $19k annually, plus meals and perhaps some other allowances. Most people who make the equivalent of $10 per hour don’t travel for business. I have even seen lots of more highly paid individuals need a corporate credit card or an advance before they could travel.
All that said, it is still a DOD snafu.
@photomikey: wow–i am aghast.
And if AA wants to charge the fees–it is their option. But I bet you Senators and Congressmen don’t pay these fees.
Obviously American Airlines hates America. That’s why they flew planes into the World Trade Center.
This story is so bogus for two reasons.
1) Military members are reimbursed for all travel expenses.
2) The Gov’t issues visa cards to pay for your expenses.
Yeah fees suck, but why and airline have to lose money just by waiving fees just because it is military personnel? So other flyers should have to pay more as a consequence?
Yes our troops do a great job and they should be commended. But they make decent money.
Michael Wales said it best, it’s reimbursable.
I’ve paid over $250 on one bag when I was flying out of Riyadh, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. When the guy told me I said ok and handed over my government travel card. I made sure I got a receipt and went on my merry way. I’ve flown on more airlines than I care to remember, so much so that I hate flying now. Sometimes the airlines charge excess baggage fees and sometimes they don’t, it depends on who is working the counter. For the people who don’t like the Government Travel Card, get advance pay to cover your expenses. There is no reason to pay anything out of your own pocket if you do one or the other and plan accordingly. Now if they are a reservist or National Guard then they probably aren’t aware of these types of things, but if you’re Active Duty, you have no excuse. As for the people complaining about the GTC being owned by Bank of America, I guess you are now thankful that they are switching Citibank and they are starting to mail the new cards out the beginning of August. Of course you’ll probably find an excuse to whine about Citibank too, get over it, use the card.
For the dude who said government employees cannot take advantage of an offer because of their position. Umm yeah, are you kidding me. So in the ten years you were in the Army you never were offered a military discount at places you shopped or ate? Mind you not all military discounts are the best discounts, I get 30% off at Lenscrafters for being a AAA member but if I used the military discount, I would get a $25 discount.
Someone else said that not all military people are heroes and you know what, he’s right. Now of course percentage wise the scumbag population of the military might be lower than the scumbag population of non-military, but we still have them.
All the jobs in the military are important for the war effort, the ones that aren’t, they get rid of. I’ve seen a lot of people get RIF’ed (Reduction in Force) because they were no longer need. Now are all the jobs superstar fancy, no of course not, but they are vital to the infrastructure of the Armed Forces.
If you think by going in your yard and waving a flag or putting a magnet on your car makes you a patriot, you are wrong. But the one great thing about this country is you don’t have to be. Nobody is forcing you to be patriotic and support the troops. If you don’t want to, don’t do it, be true to yourself and be glad you live in a country where you have a freedom to do it. If you don’t like how things are going in the country get out there and do something about it. Trust me, being in the military we are limited to things we can do to express our displeasure with how things are going so we have to rely on other people to get out there and force a change, so get out there!!
I’m sure AA is going to pay out much more than $300.00 for dodging this bad publicity.
@B: Your kidding right?
If a soldier is being flown to and from bases/assignments then it really is up to the army to take care of all of the logistics and costs. If there is an additional fee for excess baggage then the fee should have been paid for when the ticket was purchased or the soldier should have a travel card or travel money should have been provided up front (I assume that during business travel, the soldiers have a daily meal allowance as well).
It’s laudable that some airlines provide some extra benefits for free if you’re a soldier. andI’ll bet some AA gate agents probably would have waived the entire fee.
FAAIL
@ianmac47: that was the most beautiful thing I’ve read all morning.
of course, there’s going to be someone who won’t get it though… *sigh*