Pat won an auction for an RV on eBay last week. He bid a little over $15,000 for a vehicle that was listed for sale by the RV company for $29,999 on other sites. Pat was worried that Nelson’s RV might try to find a loophole to cancel the auction since he’d scored such a great deal, so he immediately sent his required $250 deposit to them and asked for someone at Nelson’s RV to contact him. Eventually, after some run around, he got the following email—with one of the ballsiest excuses we’ve ever seen.
We are devastated with our discovery this morning of a swarm of Africanized killer bees in the 2007 Sandpiper 325RG 5th wheel that you have a deposit on. We have used multiple poisons in an attempt eradicate them. We have vacuumed up the bees that covered the floors, cabinets, and furniture. We tried to clean the traces of honey on the countertops and cabinet tops as completely as possible. This is one of the terrible acts of Mother Nature we have in Arizona. As best we can determine, the bees entered from the door that had been left opened yesterday morning. The interior of this trailer does have a strong chemical odor from the poison and is TOXIC. Our insurance regulations prohibit us from selling this 5th wheel at this time.
Due to these circumstances beyond our control, we are unable to proceed with the sale of this 2007 Sandpiper 325RG 5th wheel. This vehicle is unsafe for occupancy or use. We are therefore refunding your deposit at this time. We have attached several photos. Watch EBay for other close-outs we will be posting soon.
Pat examined the photos, but they are very small (we’re posting them exactly as he sent them to us) so it’s kind of hard to tell if they’ve been manipulated.
Pat writes,
The two cans of “TOXIC” chemicals pictured in the second picture are indoor household foggers manufactured by Hot Shot and Ortho. Both were designed to be used, and are safe, for indoor use.
Within a few minutes of receiving the e-mail, I received another from PayPal indicating that my deposit had been refunded by Nelson RV.
My attorney advised me that he felt all the elements were in place for a contract and that even if their story were true, it should be my decision as to whether I wanted to accept the trailer in that condition. If a product that has been offered for sale does not turn out to be as advertised, then the buyer can decide to not go through with the sale. He told me that if I wanted it, I should send them an E-mail explaining my position and see how they respond.
So Pat resubmitted his $250 deposit and sent Nelson RV the following email:
After discussions with my attorney today and reviewing material safety data sheets of both the Ortho and Hot Shot brand indoor foggers that you used, I have decided that I will still take the 5th wheel. Thank you for disclosing the unfortunate event.
I would like to send a local representative to your dealership to inspect the unit as my agent. I would also like to resubmit the necessary deposit as required in our contract.
Please call me to arrange a time for closing as I intend on traveling to Arizona to pick up the Sandpiper within the next week.
This seemed to push Nelson RV to the breaking point, because they dropped the killer bees story and have turned to a new tactic, saying Pat was mistaken and never bought a trailer from them, and in fact there is no trailer anymore, so quit bothering them.
I received a call from Jim Nelson. Jim said that he understood that I “think” I have bought a trailer from Nelson RV and that it was just EBay and Bee’s nonsense that I was talking to James Nelson about.[Editor: What?] But that he had the owner there, Angelita Nelson, and that he was going to put her on the phone.
Angelita got on the phone and said “You did not buy a trailer from us and to quit calling and e-mailing us.” I Responded that the trailer was offered to the highest bidder in an auction, and that I was the highest bidder. Therefore I believe we have a contract for the sale. Angelina replied forcefully, “There is no contract! And we don’t even have the trailer anymore.” I responded by saying, that is not what the e-mails I have from you say, and I hope you still have the trailer because we have a deal. She then said in a very angry tone, “We do not have a deal! And we will not allow you to swindle us out of $15,000.” At which point the phone went dead.
Pat sent one more email to the Nelsons—Jim, James, and Angelina—in which he tried to educate them on how eBay works, and urged them to seek legal counsel so that they’d understand their obligation to fulfill the contract. As of Thursday July 24th, they haven’t responded and Pat hasn’t received a refund on his second deposit.
The Nelsons have indicated to him that someone will get back to him today, July 25th. Unless, of course, Africanized killer bees infest their computer and render it unusable. Once killer honey gets all up in your motherboard, you can forget about it.
(Photos: Bee, aussiegall; RV, Beige Alert; Honey Bears, buskuit)
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Yes Pat a new battery and full propane tanks are to be expected with a new RV. The new RV smell, while not unpleasant, is the odor of chemicals used in the manufacture of the materials of which the RV is constructed. You should ventilate the RV as much as possible for a period of time. There has been a lot of discussion concerning the presence of formaldehyde in the trailers issued to hurricane refugees. There should be a warning posted in plain sight (usually on the bathroom mirror) by the factory. As a newcomer to the world of RV’s you may want to visit some of the forums such as [www.rv.net] for answers to the many questions you will have in the future.
@pat.idaho: Pat, it’s great that your experience turned out so well. If I might add, though–James, if you are indeed following this thread, I’m sure you’ve learned that honesty is the best policy. I truly believe that if your company had been honest about the mistake in the ebay listing from the very beginning, most people are human enough to understand. We’ve all made mistakes.
Where you crossed the line–and in turn, incurred the wrath of Consumerist readers and internet junkies everywhere–was when you concocted an elaborate scheme to get out of it.
In any case, it sounds like your company did the right thing and handled this situation very professionally. Kudos for that–it just may actually bring some business your way.
I wanted to make some final comments on this matter that I feel is now fully resolved. I apologize if this gets interpreted as being self-serving, as that is not my intention. I just know that many people, with various opinions, have been following this bizarre story with great interest and have had many questions that were never answered. I have received many private queries from the various forums and so has Nelson RV. The questions directed to me, I feel obligated to address as best I can. After all, without the support and assistance of the readers, I would just have another “fish that got away” story to tell.
I have heard it told that if a consumer has a great experience with a business they might tell two people about it. But if a consumer has a bad experience they are sure to tell at least ten. Through the power of the internet, I was able to tell tens of thousands through numerous web sites in matter of days. (The Consumerist story alone has had over 76k views so far!) I recognize and respect that that ability is powerful and potentially dangerous. I have been humbled and amazed by the experience.
Throughout this ordeal there were things going on and opinions that I had that I could not disclose on the forums. Now that the matter has resolved, I would like to fill in a few blanks. I hope this will allow those from all points of view to understand the unique dynamics of this transaction and how it could, and should have turned out much differently than it did. This may change a few opinions one way or the other, but I want the truth of the matter to be known to those that got involved with the story. I always hate it when I hear an interesting story on the news, but never get to hear how it all turned out!
I first found this E-Bay auction three days before I placed my bid. Ironically, it was the “Below Cost” in the listing title that caught my eye. I did indeed notice that there was no reserve price and that the bidding started very low. I also noticed that the seller had nearly no feedback and had recently changed their name. Now normally, I would run away a suspicious auction like this. But, I also noted several other facts, like it was listed by a RV dealership, that it was being touted as below cost, that someone asked if the trailer could be viewed and a response with an address was listed, and that it was a 2007 model when the 2009 models are out. So it seemed possible to me that they just wanted to unload the excess inventory. So I did a little research over the next couple days. I verified the actual existence of the dealership, I went to their website, and I found the trailer listed at four or five other sites by Nelson RV. I decided that the auction was legit and that they were definitely were no strangers to listing items on the internet, so I believed they knew what they were doing.
I placed my winning bid on the Sandpiper with about 30 seconds left in the auction. Since the auction ended at 11pm MST, I only had one other bidder battling me. When I placed my bid, the auction was at $11,000. I immediately was leading the auction at $11,100. The person I out bid was at their limit at $11k!? I was momentarily shocked. Then in the amount of time it took me to refresh the screen I was the new leader at what ended up being the final price $15,255.57. Evidently, someone else was waiting to bid at the last moments of the auction and they had bid $15,155.57?! It turns out that was also the first person to bid on this auction. Why they bid that odd amount, I guess I will never know. Those that understand auctions know exactly what happened. My proxy bid was higher and therefore, I won the auction by the minimum increment of $100 over the next highest bidder.
Now while that might be hard to follow, I tell it for a reason. My proxy bid was actually $22,502. That was the amount that I was willing to go on the trailer. If I won it at that amount, I would have gotten a great deal. Winning it at a little more than 15k was unbelievable to my wife and me. I told her that the dealership is not going to be happy about this. They cannot have expected that the auction would end so low and they are probably going to kick themselves for not putting a reserve. We also agreed that when I talked to them the next day, if they sing the blues and tell us it was a mistake, we would negotiate with them. Our reasoning was that we were still willing to give the $22,500 for the trailer. (maybe a little better) I told my wife before we went to bed that night, to not get her hopes up. In my opinion, at that time, there was no way any dealership would sell 15k below price, and if they really made an honest mistake in the listing, we would just have to keep looking.
Then came the infamous Killer Bee e-mail. What? Are you kidding me? No one even talked to me in person? Can they really think that I am that dumb? I obviously didn’t buy the story. But I will tell you this, I could appreciate the desperation that they must be experiencing if they think that I would. I decided to send the e-mail stating that I would take it anyway. My goal was actually to get someone to speak to me on the phone. I didn’t think for a moment that they would instantly agree to hold up their end of the deal, but until they start talking to me in an open and transparent manner, they would never have the opportunity to realize that I am a reasonable man. Even after the Killer Bee’s I was still willing to try and work out a compromise with them. However, I was not as willing to walk away from the deal any longer. I felt insulted. I didn’t think it could get much worse…
Then came the Saturday phone call from Jim and Angelita. I didn’t even have a chance to get a word in edgewise. Somewhere between telling me that we have no contract, the trailer was already gone and calling me a swindler and hanging up on me, I came to a realization. I was not going to be able to have an adult conversation with these people. And I will be honest here, I was VERY mad at how I was treated. It was at that point that I became resolved to see the deal through as agreed through the auction. Attorneys, court, whatever it took.
I decided to post the story on forums to get some advice. I also decided to submit the story to some attorney’s for advice. Because of the success of the internet, I never ended up hiring an attorney. But with the exception of the first attorney, who was from Idaho, every other attorney that heard the circumstances wanted the case. Two in Arizona and even a different one in Idaho wanted the case. (It turns out that Idaho has a long-arm statute that allows jurisdiction to be set in Idaho if either party to a contract lives in Idaho). One attorney I talked to about fees was so confident in the case that he was willing to take it on contingency. He called me back every day to see if I wanted to hire him until I was finally able to tell him that James Nelson agreed to honor the deal.
After the KVOA news story broke and James agreed to honor the deal, I had to lay low. I didn’t want anything to change. I was contacted by a Tucson area newspaper reporter, but I didn’t call back. I was contacted by a Tucson area Fox affiliate reporter as well, but again, I did not give an interview. I did not see any reason to tell my story again after Nelson RV had agreed to honor the deal.
To me this story has a moral; maybe more than one. Honesty would have resulted in more money to the dealership or possibly even a mutual agreement to cancel the contract. Mistreating a customer, even if you believe them to be in the wrong, is never good for business. Evidently, being honest and respectful to your customers is a good idea. Who knew?
Both Nelson RV and I stirred up a bees nest. Theirs was and ACTUAL bees nest, mine was thousands of good people who could empathize with my bad consumer experience. I think the one I stirred was more effective. Once again, thank you to all of you.
Pat you mention that, “theirs was an actual bees nest”, so does that mean there were bees in the trailer? Also $22,500 would have been a good deal for the trailer. I hope that Jim & Angelita read your latest post and see just what being a***oles cost them. You were RIGHT in this matter. And you handled it quite well. I can only hope that I should be as controlled in such a situation. Thank you for the epilogue post. May you have many pleasant journeys in your new RV.
Thanks for the update. I found myself wondering what came of this as I passed a simliar trailer on the highway this morning. Glad to hear it worked out, and glad to hear that in the end they managed to maintain some integrity. What a great story.
I wish you had asked the guy whose idea the killer bees story was, but it would have been seen as gloating, which is not what you were going for. If he reads this, knowing how they did the right thing in the end, it would be interesting for him to share some inside info on how the plan was hatched, why it seemed a good idea at the time, etc.
Can we get an update on this case? I would like to know if this matter has been resolved.