Reader Joe wrote to us with a heads-up about not short-changing the U.S. Post Office. His postman left him a serious-ass invoice charging Joe with 1¢ postage due. According to Joe’s rough numbers, the PO spent at least $.25 to pay the postman for the estimated minute it took to write the invoice. Joe’s letter and photos, inside…
Please see attached photos. We recently went to a first birthday party, and received a thank-you card in the mail today. Unfortunately, the sender used a $0.41 stamp and did not write in their return address (see ‘envelope.png’). As a result, our mail carrier took the time to fill out ‘invoice.png’.
Let’s do the math, shall we?
Entry level mail carrier salary is $40,000 per year. That’s $769.23 per week, or $153.85 per day. Let’s give them 10 hour days on average, and that’s $15.38 per hour. 60 minutes in an hour, and that’s $0.26 per minute. So assuming it only took one minute to stamp the envelope with the ‘POSTAGE DUE’ stamp, write in the number one, take out the ‘carrier’s statement’ envelope, write in our address, our last name, his name, our town, and our zip code…he just cost the US Government $0.25. And that doesn’t include the gas he burned idling at the top of my driveway.
And we thought that the paperboys who wanted their $2 were batshit crazy. However, if we literally interpret the postman’s invoice (.01¢), you actually owe just one-one-hundredths of a penny. (The correct notation would have been $.01) Loyal Consumerists know that many people are confused about dollars and decimals.
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You know, I noticed they do this more often now. My office has been getting mail returned to us for the past 2 weeks. We even have a mail meter machine, and the post office still said we were short like 17 cents. Another post office incident ended up costing us a client when the post office took 2 weeks to deliver a letter, and when we finally received it, on it was a giant red stamp and we owed 5 cents to the post office. Lame.
The calculation is incorrect.
1. Most postpersons finish their routes way before the end of business day. Do you know that USPS is paying for those hours that they are done but have no other words. In other words, it may cost nothing to USPS to send those notices because postpersons’ salaries are fixed cost.
2. USPS always has the authority to depose (get rid of) your underpaid mail in their own decision, especially first-class. The guy should be thanked that USPS doesn’t throw away his mail.
3. If USPS let 1 person not to pay 1 cent, how about the rest of the country? It is about principle, not the cost. Do you know some TSA screeners got fired because they collect the cents left after screening.
It all depends on your carrier. They have the option of not delivering postage due mail, based on whether or not they can collect the money. My carrier knows me, and knows I will pay the extra, so it’s no problem. She has several on her route that she won’t because they don’t pay up. It’s not that they pay put of pocket up front, it’s that they have to pay of it’s not collected and they deliver it. They have a choice to throw it in a bin for return to sender or send to dead letter if no return address.
@vladthepaler: USPS carriers are required to deliver any mail that has at least half of the required postage on it, and then they are responsible for collecting the postage due.
There’s nothing nice about this mail carrier.
wow, if only there was something smaller than a penny that you could send one at a time to them.
Dick move post office guy, dick move
I have a pic on my cell, I’m waiting for a memory card, but I have a pic of an envelope I got in the mail with a “FOREVER” stamp canceled and “19 cents postage due” on a regular envelope, it didn’t weigh any more then regular mail or anything… Post office is tripping lately
For all of you saying that it would cost them money by letting people use the old 41 cent stamps… no it wouldn’t. Why would they create and promote the use of Forever stamps if they’re losing money on people using the old 41 cent stamps? I’m positive they lose more money by printing 1 cent stamps and sending these stupid invoices than allowing people to use the old stamps.
OMG…anything under $1.00 they should just let go (like the IRS – haha) because it’s not worth the time & trouble. That being said, most postage-due situations would be for a few cents anyway, so if they let all of them go, just imagine: a free-for-all of incorrect postage for the poor, beleaguered USPS to deal with!
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t!
Ohmigod, this is extremely creepy that this article would get posted just two days after the same thing happened to me! Before then I had no clue that USPS did this sort of thing, and now within 48 hours I can’t stop hearing about it.
I received a package with $.07 postage due, even though it did have a return address, they charge me, the recipient. The nonsensical thing about it was that the postman had already delivered the regular mail, then later in the day came back to deliver this! I can guarantee that they burned far more than 7-cents worth of gas in the process. So, what if I had refused to pay the 7-cents?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t The Consumerist recently publish an article about a bank that was benefiting from the inverse of this situation, wherein the bank was telling its customers, as I recall, that it “wouldn’t worry” about a few cents here and there (in the bank’s favor)?
Forgive me if this is vague, but what I remember was that the bank in question was somehow profiting by rounding their numbers up (or some such similar shenanigans), and that individual customers were losing a few cents each in the process.
The reason I bring this up is that I fail to see how these two situations differ. Technically speaking, the OP is hanging on to money, however little, that he technically owes another party, just like the bank did.
But The Consumerist, if memory serves, took an entirely different, accusatory approach when it came to the bank hanging onto its ill-gotten pennies: rather than going after the other party (in this case, the USPS) for all the energies it wasted on getting its money back, The Consumerist focused on the bank, and how evil they were for taking someone else’s money (a position with which, for the record, I would agree).
Shouldn’t that logic apply to the disgruntled bank customers as well? Isn’t their time better spent (pun intended) elsewhere, rather than stubbornly demanding that their pennies be paid them? Or else shouldn’t the same logic apply to the OP in this story, and the focus be on the fact that he is holding onto money he owes the government (and thus, all of us)?
Just seems to be inconsistent reportage, to me.
@ClankBoomSteam: Yes, the Consumerist did take that stance and is now mocking it without acknowledging it. Funny how journalism works like that.
Oooh, I got one:
Just before Christmas, I got one of these little notes asking for $0.26. I walked across the street to my parents’ house, gave my dad the card and the 26 cents, and asked him to get the letter or whatever it is from the mailman, whom knows us all and he is friends with. Come home and go over to their house to get mail. It was a Christmas card. From my parents. Yes, the same ones that live across the street. So, yes, I had to pay a 26 cent “ransom” for a Christmas card that the ‘rents could have handed me any day they wanted to. That’s my mother for you…
@Dobernala: not true. if the PO just ate the cost of the penny and delivered the mail, the original sender would continue to use his 41 cent stamps.
This way, the PO box spends 24 cents to notify the original sender and prevents further abuse.
You have to look at it in the long term.
I would go to the post office and hand them a check for $.01.
When the letter carrier gets Postage Due letters in the morning, they have to sign for them and are accountable for them.
If they leave you a “bill” it is because the carrier paid for this out of their own pocket. You can bet the carrier did not like to have to fill out one of these forms, because you or someone you know, did not use the proper postage.
I agree, for 1 cent it is pretty silly. But, the carriers are only doing what they obligated to do.
(By the way, if each customer on a 400 stop route, had just 1 of these per day, it would cost the carrier over $1,000 per year.)
The USPS dicks around their employees to the point where the guy might really need that penny. Seriously, there is no worse employer. No postal delivery persons I know are “making the big bucks.” Maybe the supervisors, not the delivery persons.
@Coolmatt49:
Pay with amex/visa/mc so they take out the %!
PS Form 4245? Only dickhead uses those! LOL Maybe the mailman has been paying the different himself out of his own pockets until EVERYONE on his route started shorting postage. $0.01 times 1000 houses/apartments equals $10!
@ampersand: No one needs ONE penny, but next time try writing your mortgage check ONE PENNY SHORT and see if:
a) the bank processor will pay it for you,
b) your Visa/MC limit will be lowered due to non-payment (see Slashed Credit Lines),
c) you’ll lose your house next month along with everyone else.
Not every mail carrier starts off with their own route. Most employees start a a ptf (part time flex), or rca (rural carrier associate) most of whome rarely ever se a 40 hour week. City carriers are paid for their time on the clock, not an evaluated time. Rural carriers are paid based on a very broken set pay for each day. Routes are “estimated” though rarely fit since coverage (all that junk mail with no address, political mail, city magazines, penny saver etc.) is not counted (or at least counted fairly). The only way for a RCA to earn money for the time worked is to work over 10-12 hours in one day, or to reach past 40 hours. I have worked many 9 hour days to only be paid for 6.
Also, the stamp is from the cage clerk, not your carrier, your carrier had tyo sign off agreeing that they would collect the 1 cent, or return it for another day. If the balance is not paid off it would not be sent.
What if everyone shortchanged the post office? Should the carrier pay $3-8 a day for each house/business? that is asuming each one only sent one letter.
Your mailman is not doing this to spite you, I’m sure he finds it as ridiculous as you. How many times do you sit at a red left arrow when it is obviously clear to go? How many stop signs have you not run even though it was very clear there is no one there?
Why don’t you try delivering that letter yourself? How much gas do you suppose it would cost? Stamp prices are nothing compared to the alternative (esp. seeing as how many places charge a $10 convenience fee to pay on-line or over the phone).
How much money do you make in an hour? How much time did you spend typing all that up? Was it less than a cent? How much electricity did you use? How long to scan in, crop, blur, save, and upload? Obviously this postman isn’t the only one spending more money to do something than it’s worth
Everyone is missing the point. As a postal carrier I sign for the postage
dues every morning. I have two choices. 1) Pay it out of pocket, therefore
leaving the envelope for you to hopefully pay me back, 2) Leave a notice
(not pictured here) for you to come to the post office and pick up your
postage due.
At the end of the day I am required to either pay the money or return the
postage due piece. After 10 years of being screwed by whiners like those
here, I no longer pay the postage dues for anyone. That is right. Because
you choose to stiff me a penny I am going to write you a notice, make you go
stand in line at the post office and get your letter. Sorry, your fault on
this.
To the business person who complains about the two week delivery. We give 3
notices. It did not take 2 weeks to deliver your letter. We probably
notified the receiver that 5 cents was owed, they ignored it, ignored it
again and finally it was sent back. Most people do not pay postage due for
business mail. They view it as your fault and your problem. Perhaps you need
a new rate card for you scale? The new rates are confusing and involve many
factors, call your post office and get help. They will help you.
Long story short, if I let a penny a day go I am only screwing myself. It is
not rocket science. Buy forever stamps and not worry about. Rates are on the
internet if you have a question. There is postal contract stations
everywhere. You are responsible for your actions.
As a leter carrier for 25 years, I will leave you, a customer on my route a postage due with the envelope. I write down your address and the amount due me in my little book. If you pay, I will mke note of it and do the same next time. If you don’t pay, you can use your gas, stand in line, and pick it up at the Post Office.
Just like the previous poster said, this comes out of our pockets and if you like stiffing your mailman, expect the same treatment in return.
Nuff Said
I am a mail carrier, your mail carrier is not trying to screw you out of a penny, we have to sign for these items little as it may cost, most of us just pay the amount due and leave the article with the postage due envelope, so that we can be cleared of it, and to save you a trip to the post office, we are going by your house anyway so we take the article(which we are not required to by the way, we are only required to leave you a notice and make you go pick it up so be grateful) so a penny may not seem much to you, but if you think about the fact that the average mail route has over 700 stops to deliver to, do the math of how much a carrier would be responsible for if all of them didnt pay postage dues, then multiply it by 6 days a week , be thankful im not your carrier, because i would go out of my way to make sure you had to go pick up everything i was not required to deliver. So dont blame your postman, blame the idiot that put the wrong amount on the envelope, whiny ass !!!
As far as your math is concerned, i have worked at the post office as a carrier for six years, i make under $30,000 dollars a year, it dont make a shit of difference how much we get payed, we dont get payed to pay for others mistakes on under postaging a letter. By your logic, if i go to walmart today and buy a pack of gum, and the cashier charges me 26 cents and i give her a quarter, she calls the manager over to argue with me for the other penny, she should have to pay because she is getting payed by the hour her wages, the manager is on salary, so the five minutes they just spent arguing with me to get my penny has cost them to much, right?? You are a moron.
We get payed an evealuated time, not by the hour, once a year our route is evaluated and our pay is based on what happens during that 2 week span which occurs during February normally a lighter part of the year, so during the heavier months we are doing more work and getting payed the same, that isnt fair either, but i might as well pay your postage dues too right?
And to save you math in the future, a carrier starting out makes $18.24 an hour and is only guaranteed 1 day of work a week, put that in your pipe and smoke it!!