Last Friday, we told you about Ashlee from Paonia, Colorado who took her Saturn to a Walmart Auto Service Center in the city of Delta for an oil change. Because they botched the job, the oil leaked out which resulted in extensive engine damage to the tune of $5,875. Since then, she spoke to a representative from Walmart’s insurance company who said that they won’t pay for the repairs, because when Ashlee discovered the damage, she took her car to a non-Walmart mechanic, and in doing so has “tampered with evidence.” Not to be trifled with, Ashlee is gathering evidence and witnesses and hiring a lawyer. Ashlee’s, letter inside…
Hey, it’s Ashlee again. You can add to that story that the insurance company for Wal-mart has just called me to say they are not doing anything about it because I took it to a mechanic first, instead of going to Wal-mart… because this process “tampered with evidence.” Don’t you think any normal person would take a sick vehicle to the closest mechanic to try and get help?
Also, Wal-mart sent an older gentleman with a ponytail, and an unprofessional demeanor to the GMC dealership (where the car is supposed to be getting fixed) to assess the damage. He said he found no oil anywhere, no problems, and the engine ran great when he turned the car on. So I called the manager at the GMC dealership who immediately went out to look at the car himself…. He found “oil everywhere” and he heard severe “rod-knocking” when the engine was running, which he says is a sign of a serious engine problem. He seemed appalled at this, too—just as much as I was! Wal-mart killed my car, then denied it, and now I am hiring a lawyer. I have plenty of picture evidence, and plenty of witness accounts. And as for the condescending insurance rep that snickered at me over the phone when we asked for my date of birth, this is not the last time you will hear from this little 22 year old.
They won’t pay because you decided to take your damaged Saturn to a non-Walmart mechanic? That is typical insurance company bullshit. What do you think would have happened if you had taken it to a Walmart mechanic? They would have denied everything and blamed it on something else–it’s simply a catch-22. It sounds like you are handling the situation correctly so far. Make sure you gather and record every bit of information you can, doing so will provide your lawyer with the proper ammunition to fight your case. Hang in there, Ashlee and keep us updated.
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@andrewe: You are absolutely right about the licensing thing, because there is no such thing as a licensed mechanic/technician. All we have are certifications that are basically meaningless. So that makes it really difficult to have a positive image for new customers.
@n0m4d:
My truested local mechanic only charges $5 more than Wal-Mart but takes care of oh so much more.
@pockygt: Are you saying that ASE certs are worthless?
@sleze69: retainer fees typically don’t pay for time in court – these are billed separately. sometimes the contract may contain a certain number of billable court hours – even if that’s the case, the representation is still costing walmart something (either a portion of the retainer or billable hours or both).
Hang tough Ashlee, be sure to tell your attorney to ask for compensation for non-economic damages (mental duress).
I’m highly amused by the thought of two Consumerist stories and the hundreds of comments chiming in with their experiences of Wal-Mart ripping off their customers being part of an official trial proceeding.
Ashlee, be sure to put into writing all verbal communication you’ve received from Wal-Mart and their entities, especially the unprofessional tone, as well as their representative who glanced at the smoking wreck that used to be your car before their mechanics sabotaged it then announced it’s in factory ship-shape.
I wouldn’t let Wal Mart replace my shoelaces, much less touch anything that could impact the safety and reliability of my vehicle, one of the most expensive and complicated items I own.
It’s important to understand the basics of routine maintenance.
- How does an internal combustion engine work?
- Why is maintenance important, and what does oil and an oil filter do? What do spark plugs and various fluids do?
After a maintenance, you should always eyeball a few things when you pick the car up and after the first drive to make sure everything is a-ok.
- Is there smelly or oily fluid on the ground under the engine your car, staining the pavement? There shouldn’t be. Condensation from the air conditioner is pure water, and that’s okay.
- Under the hood, are all caps and plugs put back where they should go? Most engines make these critical checkpoint items in fluorescent yellow, green and orange colors.
- Are all tools, wrappers and old parts removed from the engine bay? A lot of mechanics leave junk along the edge of the engine bay, which can cause problems.
- Check out any new odors after a scheduled maintenance. The exterior of the engine should be free of oil, coolant and other fluids.
- The owner’s manual lists all of the items that have been addressed for each scheduled maintenance. Go through the list and understand the basics of what you’re paying for.
@n0m4d: Read the original story. She had just moved to the area and it was the only thing she could find that she had heard of.
Jesus Christ people. I’m so sick of “well you went to X company so that’s what happens.” or “that’s what you get for not knowing how to do it yourself”.
Good on you, Ashlee. Word of advice to anyone dealing with an insurance company: they will NEVER give you a fair offer unless you have a lawyer. NEVER. Period. They don’t even take you seriously until you have one. Then they’ll at least consider playing ball.
However, anybody who tells you to “hire a bulldog” or “never settle/back down” is an idiot. You want a lawyer who’ll fight for you. You DON’T want a lawyer who is working out his or her anger issues on your dime. A “bulldog” will cut into your eventual settlement or recovery, assuming you get one, and will tell you it’s all his doing that you got as much as you did.
Ah, this so reminds me of my recent run-in with my homeowner’s insurance. A tornado came through Atlanta and put a tree right on my roof. I was talking to my insurance the following morning as the tree was being removed so they could tarp my roof and prevent further rain damage. All of the sudden the rep started yelling at me for removing the tree and claiming they would not cover it and that I was currently “destroying evidence.” I just laughed. I had my policy in hand and new he was full of it.
Best of luck Ashlee!!!
I feel for your Saturn. I have had my little Saturn for 10 years and have 207,000 miles on her and she just won’t quit. I hope you can get your’s back in shape.
Catch-22! Punday is really starting off well!
@Jaysyn:
I’m saying they’re not really an indication of quality. They basically say that this person has done a written test and worked 2 years in a shop.
@timmus: Not yet. But soon.
@DarrenO: This is the Internet. People believe anything posted on it, especially conspiracy theories.
I’ve never had trouble with their oil changes, personally. They actually use name brand filters, unlike some mom-and-pop shops I’ve gotten oil changes at.
My mom had this same problem. Wal-mart forgot to put the drain plug back in, and it killed the engine. The difference is, she called them right back, and had them come and get it. They replaced the engine without any bickering.
DarrenO, The fact that you recognized the filter brand does not necessarily have any correlation at all to the quality of the product or service. Do you really think Walmart corporation uses high-quality parts for their auto service? Having had a roommate who worked in their auto dept, I assure you that’s not the case–they use the cheapest of everything.
As bad as most dealership experiences can be, I would say the 2 places I do trust my car to be serviced are the local mechanic and the dealership. The local guy I can always go back to if I have issues, and the dealership at least SHOULD know the important details of the car. Getting anything important (or anything at all) done at walmart is at best a bad idea. The girl needs to win this case and just vow never to shop at walmart again.
Yet another reason to NEVER, EVER go to Wal Mart.
For anything.
It only encourages them.
I had a very similar experience with Walmart a few months back, but in this case, they actually behaved in the way that they should’ve and paid for all of the damages to the car, and the extra expenses that we incurred.
The short story is that we had 4 new tires and an oil change done to the car. 10 days later, my wife rounded a turn and the wheel in its entirety came off. Apparently, when they installed the tires, they torqued the lug nuts so heavily that they were totally stripped. I found the tire in someone’s yard and the lug nut cap with all of the shredded lug nuts in it a few yards back.
Walmart admitted fault almost immediately, until their insurance company got on with things and said that they wouldn’t be paying anything until they could asses their videos of their service transactions and get an independent estimate of the damage. There were a few nervous factors, such as the fact that the tire had to be put back on to get it on the tow truck, etc. But it was clear to all parties that the lug nuts simply failed.
Cut to the end: Walmart ends up paying for damages to car (about $2500, with body damage, rotor, etc), rental car, and towing. No extra friction needed. A lot of phone calls and a few worrisome nights, but they ended up doing the right thing in the end.
Now, since this is a consumer protection site, let me be clear about this: I have never shopped at Wal-Mart since, and they will never, ever service my vehicles again. They fairly compensated me and my wife for the damages that we incurred. But really, they should have been sued for punitive damages. Their carelessness could’ve easily cost my wife her life and the lives of other motorists if that wheel came detached in another circumstance (higher speed/different angle, etc). There was a very similar case that was settled for about $5 million in which the drive of the vehicle was killed due to the nuts failing on the tire about 6 months prior to our transaction. They should absolutely require their mechanics to be certified and their work to be peer checked.
All in all, it was great of them to accept responsibility of their actions, but they still provided extremely bad service.
I tried to post this earlier, but it never appeared. Trying again…
I expected this story today. I knew they’d try to avoid paying for the damage they caused and somehow try to blame the customer for it. This is a company that gave away a person’s car for the cost of an oil change by not verifying the person picking up the car was the same person who dropped it off. Then, this same company didn’t want to offer any compensation in the form of helping this customer obtain a rental car. Nor were they willing to pay to transport the customer’s car home from Florida when it was finally located, even though Wal-Mart was determined to be at fault. The customer had to figure out how to get to Florida from Oklahoma and pick up the car herself.
Good for her that she’s taking them to court. They’re just trying to scare her with that “tampering with evidence” comment. Lawyers are pretty good at ferreting out the truth, much as we pretend to dislike them. I hope all goes well for her.
I love seeing this post right after the “above and beyond” one about Costco. Costco is truly the Anti-Walmart!
Please, for the love of country, everyone stop shopping at Wal-Mart.
Buy local. support Mom and Pop stores.
Walmart is NOT my choice for ANY automotive repair. This reaffirms it.
However, I will use WalMart for bargains (as in buying oil to perform my own changes).
I wish Ashlee the best and hope she gets justice. (I hate insurance companies, their reps, and their greed)
She should be able to get a sworn statement from the mechanic attesting to the fact the damage was likely caused by Wal-Mart. There should also be a work order on file at the shop detailing what was done.
On July 3, my 70-year old mother had to take my father to the Emergency Room. They live in a smal town in eastern Colorado and were on their way to Colorado Springs which is 200 miles away. About 40 miles from home they had a blow-out. My mom immediately called me to help them but I knew some local farmer would stop to help them before I arrived. When I arrived, a local farmer’s wife and her son had stopped to help and were tightening up the last lugnut. My parents made it to the hospital but I wanted to make sure everything was OK for their trip back home. I decided to get 2 new tires for the pickup. I shopped around but decided on Walmart because their is a store about 30 miles from their house and they would be able to buy two more matching tires when they were ready to replace the others.
I went to the store on s. 8th street in Colorado Springs. I asked them what they had in stock and the clerk said she had 3 different models in stock. I asked to see the tires so I could make a decision. One of the tires she showed me was the “Uniroyal Liberator” and told me they were $105.00 each. I pointed at the price sign on the rack which said $100.00. She said the sign was wrong and the cost would be $105.00. It was about 5:00pm on the day before a holiday and they store was very busy. I decided to pay the extra $10.00 just so I could get my parents safely back on the road.
They installed the tires and my mom paid for them. When we got to the truck, I noticed that they had charged her $3.50 for new valve stems. We had not discussed this but I was OK with it. Just for the hell of it, I decided to look at the tires/wheels before we left the parking lot. As it turned out, they had only replaced one of the valve stems. Since I had already decided to donate $10.00 to the store for the price discrepancy, I was infuriated about the additional $1.75. I went back inside and asked for a refund of the valve stem charge. I was told I would have to wait for a manager – which took about 30 minutes.
By this time, I had been “stewing” far too long. I told the manager that the extra $1.75 pushed me over the edge. He appologized and gave me a gift card for $25.00.
I’m satisfied with the manager’s response, but I am still very upset that they would try to rip-off a little old lady who was in a bind and was 200 miles from home.
As many people as they had working on the vehicle, they should have had someone verify the repairs.
I wonder if these stores have the same DM?
Walmart Automotive Customers – Caveat Emptor!
we are hearing just one side of the story.
Oh, I am sure Wally farkedup the car. 99.9% sure.
But like I said, we are hearing one side of the story.
Like to see some facts (dealer’s inspection report, damaged parts etc) to support the claim.
Wally’s insurance company will settle if the support evidence starts to mount.
@InfiniTrent: I’m disappointed at your judeo-christian-centered disappointment.
I propose we keep religion out of it, and stick to the issue — WallyWorld needs a boot to the head.
The same thing happened to me with BrakeCheck a few years agao, they changed my oil.. then on the ‘test run’ the car broke down on the test run, then the manager never told me anything so after 2 hours of waiting I finally asked where my car was. He then broke he news to me. They somehow got it back up and running and so I got to take it home. Well the next day while on my way to work I heard a huge CLUNK in my engine. After that it just stopped running. I took it to another mechanic who said it did not have enough oil in it. After 3 months of arguing with Brake Check that they killed my car, they ended up just buying the car out right from me according to KBB value.
@InfiniTrent:
He used your god’s name in vain. Not polite, but no skin off your beak. Jehovah with jelly, get a grip. (“someone on the IntarWeb was rude to me!”)
One cannot choose their race, gender, or sexual orientation. Discrimination based on those attributes is irrational.
One can, however, choose their religion. Discrimination based on religion makes perfect sense to me, as it is a clear reflection of one’s intelligence and perhaps even sanity.
//atheist libertarian
@aphexbr:
We destroyed your car, why didn’t you bring it back to us? Cheater!
Walmart is the abusive SO of retail.
I was at a WM store when a customer called in and said they had engine problems. The store had the car towed in, turned out the oil filler cap was not reinstalled, and the store took full responsibility.
I took my car to Walmart for an oil change, but lost a wheel cover when I went to pick up my car, and they said it wasn’t their fault…… hmmmmm…..
@ColdNorth: The process generally goes like this, as I have worked in a law office for accident and injury law for a little while. Something or someone gets damaged. Person retains lawyer. They tell the opposing party, hey, you screwed up my property, you are going to pay for it. They flat out refuse. THEN YOU FILE THE ACTION AND TAKE THEM TO COURT. Trying to make them pay, is outside of the realm of the civil court. Once in court, you’ve already invested time into the action, you might as well go through with it, unless of course they really really want to settle out of court then, to which it will cost them a pretty penny. When a company, as in this situation, acts egregiously, the courts may also punish them accordingly. The insurance company denied the claim on the basis that the evidence was tampered with. That, at least IMO, is malicious greed. The court may or may not see it the same way, but what you do is make sure it is brought up in court to show the company in their true light. You may or may not win the case, but if you do, they will be punished for it financially. It’s not that what I said was bad advice, its the standard practice that many lawyers use when arguing a settlement or fighting a case. They give them a chance to pony up, they refuse, then you punish them in court financially. It seems pretty fair to me, they try to wiggle out of a financial obligation, they should have to pay dearly for it which includes the plaintiff’s attorneys fees, all expenses indirect and direct because of the situation, and direct expenses to solve the problem.
In respect to ex military attorneys, I am not referring to a person who was a JAG officer or the like, but simply a person who was in the military, and at a later time became a lawyer. This is out of my personal experiences and what I have seen, is that generally, they are not as wimpish as some of these other little pussyfoot attorneys that I have seen trying to practice trial law.
Any other attorney that she chooses to hire you are sure they will do a great job? I’m sorry but I disagree and I find that to be somewhat of a blanket statement. There are many good attorneys and many bad attorneys out there. I am stating from my personal experience and from what I have seen, ex military persons with JDs generally stand up for themselves and their clients better. But it is not always the case.
You may can get an accident and injury lawyer to take the case, and it may not be a bad idea, as they are exceptionally skilled at taking on insurance companies. I honestly don’t know what other kind of attorney to recommend other than a consumer protection type attorney.
“W-M and its insurance company are probably just playing the odds that they can bully one of their customers around into giving up the claim. I would say that the OP should proceed with her claim, but she should expect a long, difficult road.”
Good advice and I agree with that completely. Litigation is always a time and financially consuming process that involves a great deal of stress and resources. I would think that for an entire car engine, which costs thousands of dollars to be rebuilt, walmart should cowboy it up. No reasons the OP should be put into debt for something that was caused by a company with incompetent employees.
Yet another reason I will not shop at Wal-Mart. Always. Err, Never.
What I find funny about this story, is that her engine had relatively low miles. “Tampered with Evidence”? Who would bring this sort of nightmare on for no reason? Her car was relatively new, lower miles. Oh, I get it. She decided for “Funsies” to clank around pistons and valves, bend rods and take a $14,000 investment down the road with no oil for the hell of it. Then she plotted to exort them out of money — the repair costs EXACTLY. So she would be made whole, no better, no worse. Try for millions?!? NO! She wants what is rightfully hers.
Yes, fun times! Thanks, Wal*Mart!
@DarrenO: On the flipside, with this being the scary, unverifiable internet, who’s to say that you’re not Astroturfing for Walmart*?
@timmus: Why would the 5th Circuit court in New Orleans handle a case in California? Way out of their jurisdiction.
Another mechanic is called a “second opinion.” Go get ‘em girl.
Frankly, I don’t think any judge will look kindly on an insurance company throwing around the term “tampering with evidence,” which has absolutely nothing to do with this situation and is lawyer-ish scare-talk intended to intimidate consumers into believing they’re being accused of doing something untoward.
Ashlee did absolutely nothing wrong by going to another mechanic — I have never heard of any requirement that you return to the same place if a mechanic damages your car. It would be great if Bob the mechanic would give you a statement; I would say always, always, always get a mechanic in a situation like that to give you something in writing explaining the diagnosis. Hopefully, whatever estimate he gave you contains that information.
There’s no earthly reason why Walmart has the right to personally be the only place to handle the car. Unless there’s something about this that I’m not understanding, all you should have to do in civil court is prove that it’s more likely than not that Walmart caused the damage, and there are lots of ways to do that, even though you let someone else see the car. It’s true that you would have better evidence if you had taken it back to Walmart, but since THE CAR WAS DEAD, nobody’s going to fault you for protecting your own safety.
“Tampering with evidence” is a crime not related to this situation in any way; they’re trying to intimidate you, and I wouldn’t hesitate to ask your attorney about adding something to your complaint about the fact that they’re frivolously throwing around criminal accusations to try to intimidate you into not pressing your claim. You might not get any separate money for it, but in my experience, this is just the kind of thing that really, really ticks off judges.
Wow, Wally world did the same thing to my mothers ’96 Saturn
SL2 (average of 32mpg) did not blow the engine but ate oil from then on.
(I am hiding my 2004 Vue from the baddies at Wal Mart – only synthetics and my hands shall touch the cherished
4 banger during oil changes – anyone seen the odd filters the 2.2s have – just a filter, casing is not changed).
Xeen
I let WM put tires on my ’85 Caprice once. Wasn’t too bad till I took advantage of the free rotation and balancing deal that came with the tires. They f’ed it up pretty bad; made it wobble and shimmy so it was tough to drive on the highway. I let another WM redo it, and it was acceptable… never went back to them for anything after that…
–rick
This happened with my mother with Sears. they said because we took the car elsewhere after having problems again that they were not liable or responsible for anything anymore. WTF
I didn’t read all the responses, but if it wasn’t mentioned, I think there needs to be laws on the books compensating consumers for B.S. run-around like this. Some punitive measure that sticks it to insurance companies for ridiculous actions like these.
@pockygt: Exactly, its like saying an A+ certified PC tech is the best person to work on your computer.
@mizmoose: @pegr: Aren’t there enough religious forums out there, that we don’t have to deal with this petty crap on one that is dedicated to cars, and the cult thereof? *religious expletive*
Oh, and go Ashlee! Assuming her story is true, of course. Still, Wally World is one festering boil we might should consider lancing.
Go Ashley. I hope she reams those arseholes for all they’re worth!
My family consistenly shops at Wal-Mart b/c their prices are good on many items–but we would never buy tires or have any automotive work done there. Period. I wouldn’t take any of my vehicles to Jiffy Lube or Sears either. That is foolish. If I didn’t change my own oil & service my own vehicles I’d take them to a reputable shop like any other service I can’t do myself. There are many items at Wal-Mart I would not purchase either simply b/c the quality isn’t the best or their prices aren’t the best. the automotive service isn’t the best either. Duh!
Wal-Mart’s handling of this situation is no different than what Sears, Target or Jiffy Lube would do. So simply stating you aren’t going to buy toilet paper from Wal-Mart b/c their automotive department screwed up it idiotic.
This is as much about bashing Wal-Mart as it is about Ashlee’s situation. IMNSHO, she screwed up by taking it there to start with. Wal-Mart is partly responsible. Ashlee should have known better that to continue to drive it w/o oil. Bad on her. There had to have been a CHECK ENGINE light or OIL light on for quite awhile. Its there for a reason. Don’t ignore it. If she drove it as far as she says she did, then she is partly at fault. Own your s***.
As a former mechanic, I’m amazed at how many people will continue to drive a car when there’s an obvious problem. I’ve had people bring cars & trucks to me that they should’ve stoppped driving 50, 100, or 1000 miles ago, but just kept on driving. Instead of a $50 or less fix they had $1500-$5000 repairs instead. One guy brought his van in after the entire brake rotor had not only worn down, but had been completely worn away. I’m talking about a rotor, not just the brake pad. When I gave him a quote he wanted me to put it back together (with non-existant parts) so he could keep driving it!!!
People hate Wal-Mart b/c they’re successful. If they are so bad, then why are they successful? That flies in the face of all logic. Bad businesses do not make money. Bad businesses don’t stay in business long. Everytime a Wal-Mart opens, 10x or more people apply for jobs than are being offered. Must be a horrible place to work. huh?
I figure we save in the area of $1000/yr by shopping there instead of buying the same items elsewhere. Is Wal-Mart perfect? No. But it isn’t the devil incarnate either.
Wal-Mart doesn’t do business any different than they did 20 yrs ago. Their return policy is pretty good. I’ve returned stuff to Wal-Mart no other business would have even considered taking. Most of their employees are pretty good folks. Like any business there are a few bad ones. Taking your car to the Wal-Mart in Delta, Colorado is clearly a bad idea. Delta doesn’t have an abundance of qualified mechanics. Those that are don’t work at Wal-Mart.
I know this. I grew up in Paonia.
if she took back her car to the place that caused the damage, it would have been worse than going to the obvious choice, the closest mechanic that won’t damage her car further!
you know you’re dealing with professionals when they mess up an OIL CHANGE.
my question is, why would the mechanic she took it to let some skeevy seem-ing guy hop in and turn on her car? i hope she gets the competent person to testify as to the condition of the vehicle…and maybe some pictures too!
@n0m4d: You should read the original article (and the consumerist commenter code). The OP is not a Wal-Mart shopper normally, and only went there because she was in an unfamiliar area.
Yep if she took it back to Walmart the mechanic there wasn’t going to suddenly admit to the problem, so her “evidence tampering” by having a third party tell her what was wrong was the best thing to do. Just the fact that they sent someone over to deny all damage and oil leaks is even worse.
I simply won’t go there anymore, no reason to anyway. Home centers and grocery or big box stores have all the stuff they sell, and it’s not total crap quality for the manufactured goods like towels I’ve bought there.
I won’t miss all the frozen meats that taste like 40 percent of their flavor has been removed. I think it was a previous story where the butchers tried to form a union or join one, they allegedly planted management in to vote no, then they took all meat departments out of Walmarts and just use frozen now. $6,000 is peanuts to a corporation when they stand to lose a court case, and the loyalty of anyone reading this story. Amazing how a company spends so much on advertising and so little on damage control.