Gail Martin was having a meal at a restaurant in Jackson, SC. when her 4-year-old autistic daughter Alyssa began crying, WIS10 reports. Gail then heard a man yell at her from across the room who told her leave the restaurant. This man was neither a callous restaurant employee nor a drunk bar patron, it was the Jackson Police Chief, Dennis Rushton. “He said, ‘You need to pick her up and you need to get out of here now,’” Gail said. Details, inside…
The article says,
Even though he knew the child was autistic, he said he did ask the Martins to leave.
Gail says she feels like Chief Rushton should have been more understanding about what was going on with her autistic daughter.
“We can’t just lock them up, they have every right to be out in public like everyone else,” Gail said.
Now Gail hopes her story will bring more awareness about autism.
Gail said, “I wasn’t embarrassed of Alyssa’s behavior, I was embarrassed of the way it was handled.” Chief Rushton did not make a statement but did say that he thought Alyssa was being extremely loud and bothering other customers.
Since then, Rushton has agreed to go through training with the South Carolina Autism Society “to help him better understand the condition.” Also, the Martins plan to meet with the police commissioner at City Hall.
Obviously, nobody wants to hear a screaming child while they are dining out, but has society become so intolerant that when a child cries we should expect the police to order them out of the building?
Family ordered to leave restaurant because of crying child [WIS10]
(Photo: Getty)
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@AmbiUbi: Just because I’m anal….that movie was PG-13.
@radleyas: Okay, maybe it wasn’t the autism that made the child cry, but the crying is possibly exacerbated by the autism, and the calming down is likely more difficult as well.
And what if during your nice meal with your husband, one of you brought up a topic that the people at the next table found offensive and it ruined their meal? Should you be asked to leave, and would you do it? It really becomes an issue of where to draw the line, but when you use the phrase “ruin my meal” that smacks of overreaction.
@spryte:
I’m sorry, but crying children ruin my meal. When I’m trying to enjoy an nice evening with my husband and a child is having a big fit, it spoils the mood.
As for my conversation during a meal, never does a conversation rise to the decibel level of a child crying/screaming, never. For my husband and I, going to restaurant = date night. We tend to speak in slightly hushed tones.
We have left restaurants because of crying children. And I’m not talking about places like Applebees. I’ve been in 4 star restaurants with crying kids. I don’t get it. Why on earth are people bringing their kids to a place where a meal 30-40 bucks a person? You folks know these kind of restaurants .. cosy booths, subtle mood lighting, no prices on the menu, endless wine list. In the midst of all that, someone has carted out their brood. One of them starts to cry.
So yeah, in a situation like that, a crying kid ruins the my meal.
@TheLemon: I understand, but that opinion seems particularly uninformed. There are valid reasons for questioning the number of autism diagnoses, especially as the criteria has changed so much over the last 25-30 years, but none of those reasons are reflected in that comment. Also, the comment you posted had nothing to do with the situation in the OP.
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t remove a crying child from a restaurant – I have done so with my son when he was an infant/toddler. My problem is with how so many people are assuming that the mother is lying/neglectful/making up her child’s autism based on an article that provides very little information – including how the other patrons and the restaurant’s manager perceived the situation.
@NameGoesHere: That’s my problem with the assumptions made here – some people feel that children shouldn’t make a sound at all in public and blow the slightest things out of proportion.
@xay:
It’s not hat kids should make a sound in public. It’s all about learning how to behave in a restaurant. In those situations, you have to think about how your behaviour affects others. We aren’t talking about kids at a zoo, park or Chuck E. Cheese for that matter.
Boy my typing is off today. I meant “It’s not that kids shouldn’t make a sound ..”
Can everyone please post where you live? From what you say, it sounds like every restaurant and theater in your communities are just packed full of screaming kids, and I would like to never visit there ever. How is it possible that hundreds of people on this site have to deal with screaming kids in their restaurants whenever they go out, and I’ve never had ONE meal ruined by an upset child (and I’m on the road 5 days a week, eating out 3 meals a day). 15 meals a week in restaurants, 50 weeks a year, for the last 5 years. 3,650 meals, not one ruined by a screaming child. It seems to me that maybe the posters in this thread are overstating the true nature of our national epidemic just a tiny bit!
I’m pretty sure the correct thing to do would be to remove your unruly child, disability or not. Heck, if autism is an ok excuse for children behaving badly (and for the parents to not remove them if nothing else works), then so is “they’re just kids being kids.”
@radleyas: But some people do feel that way and some people do get incredibly irritated about minor behavior. Check out some of the child free message boards if you don’t believe me. I’m not saying that’s what happened here – I’m saying that we don’t know what happened.
Personally, I don’t take my child to non-family restaurants, R rated movies or other places that tend to be more adult oriented because he isn’t mature enough for that type of environment. But I’ve seen people complain about crying babies at a Waffle House – not an establishment known for quiet conversation or mellow atmosphere.
@sleze69: The drama seems appropriate amongst the number of adults who’s days are ruined by crying infants. IHOP isn’t exactly the place to go for a quiet meal either. It’s not hard to find places in an urban center with good meals, where you will not find children. Also, what if the parent is traveling? What if the parent is running errands for the day and there is no time to go home? Why is it that parents and children have absolutely no rights here? You know the old saying “enjoy yourself.” That’s said because you can’t really expect to enjoy others.
When I was a kid if I caused a disturbance in a restaurant I’d have been told to be quiet, if I did it again, i’d be outside, 3 times, and we’d have been on the way home where i’d have gotten a spanking and i’d sit in the corner. That’s how it was, you behaved, because if you didn’t you were punished. Autistic or not, this girl should be behaving, and if the parent is unable to get her to behave, then the parent should be asked to leave.
That being said, the police chief was within his rights as a citizen to ask her to get the kid to stfu, but as soon as he used his position as leverage he was certainly in no-no zone.
Bottom line here is that the parent should not have put herself in a position that she couldn’t handle.
Had I been in that restaurant, i’d have spoken up before the police chief did, and I’d be the asshole.
Damn, I hate when I go out in public, and I find that out there, without calling first, is the public. A crying kid! the rest of my life had been perfect up till now.
Kids cry, and when it becomes too much and the parent is not doing anything about it, or is unsuccessful in his/her attempts, the responsibility falls to the manager of the business to do something about it (hopefully politely and respectfully), not the police or another patron. If conflict ensues, then it may be appropriate to involve the cops.
Autism likely had some part in the drama here, as did just having a kid in a restaurant when the kid wanted to be somewhere else. Parenting is hard sometimes, can we not find a respctful way to help with the problems we see, rather than piling on?
@Jubilance22: Well said!
Me being a parent of a 3yr old, I often take my ‘lil one out of an establishment if he’s acting up and behaving badly. Typically, just taking him outside calms him down enough and he wants to go back in, and behaves the rest of the time.
As for autism, there are so many levels of the condition. Our pediatrician told us that “back in the day” there were 100+ conditions that are now all being lumped into “autism” (apparently there is a direct correlation to those conditions decreasing while autism is increasing).
Anyway, even with an autistic child, you need to be cognizant of those around you and the environment you’re in. Be courteous and respectful of your surroundings. If others see you making an effort, then it goes a long way.
@spryte: You are SO right. I stand corrected. It certainly gave ME enough heebie-jeebies to be an R!!
@Philthadelphian:
Some Jokes are just not funny… i bet you would have not said that if you had an autistic children…
Jerk.
Public nuisance laws are usually extremely vague, so the chief may have been within his rights, just as he would be to tell a purse-snatcher to let go of a purse he is trying to pull away from its owner. In both cases he is telling someone to cease an unlawful activity, obviously of different degrees, and although public nuisance laws may be overbroad, sometimes even easily-abusable laws legitimately apply.
Did it apply in this case? This is a different situation than on an airplane, where the child’s misbehavior can endanger himself and others if he is not strapped in during turbulance.
But autism is a continuum of conditions, and almost all autistic children will live in the larger society. Parents should equip them to do so, including behavior in different settings. As with non-autistic children, this is called “parenting.”
For the record, this child is 4 years old, which means she is not a baby of the type that can get away with crying because that’s how they communicate. She is old enough to use words and to know how to behave. The disability likely hindered this but this was not the same thing as an infant or even a toddler crying. I can sort of see how the police chief might think it was a kid throwing a tantrum and that is more distruptive to me than a crying baby.
And what if during your nice meal with your husband, one of you brought up a topic that the people at the next table found offensive and it ruined their meal?
If you talk that loudly, you should be fitted for a muzzle.
@soloudinhere: Sorry to disagree, but as with other disabilities, the apparent SYMPTOM was the crying, not the underlying disabilty, just as with a person with CP the symptom is the lack of mobility. Therefore an owner is REQUIRED to make reasonable accomodations to allow the person with the disibilty, whatever the disability, to utilize the publically available services. There are no exceptions as to the actual disability or the symptoms. Move patrons out of the way for a motorized wheelchair. Build ramps. Provide private rooms. There is nothing out of bounds. It’s a crazy law, but it is LAW. There is no law that requires an owner of a restaraunt to be able to show a profit. The ADA requires the owner to make reasonable accomdations even if such accomodations costs the owner dearly. The owner, in this case, made NO accomodation (it’s pretty apparent, since if there had been such an accomodation, this article would never have been here in the first place). The ADA is a big club with sharp spikes.
@Televiper:
I’d like to put aside the discussion about the police officer’s actions for a bit, because we don’t know enough relevant facts — length of crying jag, whether others were complaining, etc. — to come to a fair judgement about his decision.
I would, however, like to respond to some of your points, which I find to be completely beyond the pale.
Cause guess what, sometimes kids burst out and get upset for reasons that are far beyond a parents control. Even a normal 4 year old is unwittingly loud and obnoxious.
A child, especially at that age, should NEVER be “beyond a parents control.” That’s part of the definition of being a parent. This is why we, as a society, hold parents responsible for the behavior of young children.
Taking the child outside to soothe him, or, in the worst case scenario, paying the bill and leaving IS exercising control. It’s what’s expected in a public place.
Is this parent supposed to abandon lunch and leave in a situation where it takes a few moments to calm the kid back down?
Spend those “few moments” (which is a relevant term) OUTSIDE, or out of earshot of others. Common courtesy.
Should a parent starve because one of the kids is a little more excited than the jerks at Consumerist can handle?
Wow. The mother was being asked to starve? Indulging your penchant for hyperbole makes it difficult to take you and your argument seriously.
There are parents that have on controllable (sic) and unruly devils.
If a child is truly uncontrollable, they shouldn’t be in a restaurant. Again, common courtesy.
No one here is defending a child that went on a tantrum and started throwing things. We’re defending children that act like children and the parents who handle them.
“Children that act like children?” The majority of children that I see in public on a daily basis are well-behaved. Your point is, I think, dangerously close to the women who were kicked off their flights because their children were out of control; they both publicly admitted that the kids were uncontrollable, and they both seemed oblivious to the fact that this is clear evidence of their failure to perform the duties and obligations of a parent.
Perhaps the problem is that people are holding 4 year olds to the same standards as 18 year olds.
Nope. People are holding the parents to the same standard as other adults.
To be honest, I think it’s pretty well assumed that she was attending to her child’s needs. The prejudice here is unbelievable.
I didn’t read anything in the article that would lead me to that assumption. I think you’re being predudicial, because you don’t have any evidence to justify that assumption. Perhaps it’s just as likely, if not more so, that the mother simply decided to continue eating and wait the child out, forcing everyone around her to do the same.
Yes, it is a private establishment. But, more important, it’s open to the public, and it serves the general public. Last I checked, children were members of the general public. If you want to eat in a “Private place” stay home.
Yes, it’s open to the general public, with the understanding that the expectations of behavior are different than they are at home. As someone pointed out above, that’s the terms of the social contract. If you can’t or won’t adhere to those terms, you don’t get to share a public space. Period.
If you really want to get away from children when you’re in PUBLIC, stop being cheap and eat some place a little more upscale.
This is, to me, the most ridiculous of your statements. Following your logic, it’s only the patrons of expensive restaurants who are allowed the expectation of eating their meal in peace.
How about this: If you really can’t control your children in PUBLIC, stop being selfish and eat someplace a little more isolated, like at home.
If not, get used to a faceful of hostility from those around you, who DO adhere to the rules of the social contract.
Oh, and…grow up.
Lastly, before you ask: yes, I’m a parent. And yes, obviously, I was once a child. So I DO have a frame of reference here.
@AdvocatesDevil: Well, the place I personally lived where it was the most noticable and prevalent was in Orange County, CA. Since I’ve moved to the east coast in 2004, I haven’t noticed it nearly as much, and I go out to eat/see movies more often that I did when I lived on the west coast.
Of course, that may have something to do with population discrepancies? But I don’t agree that this problem is overblown. It’s not just public places where parents can’t seem to take responsibility, either. My hubby has worked in childcare for 15 years and he has seen the quality of parenting has gone way down overall. God forbid you tell some parent their kid did something wrong or didn’t behave properly.
@NefariousNewt: Thank God you’re here.
I think it depends on the restaurant. Children, all children, need to learn at some point how to handle themselves in public. Learning can involve periods of not getting it quite right.
I consider IHOP, Denny’s, and their ilk as “practice” not high cuisine. They are family restaurants, which are the proper arena for children to learn how to behave – and occasionally fail at that.
If you want to be far away from any screaming kid, go to a place that scrapes the crumbs off the linen between courses. (If you get a screaming kid there, yes, kick them out. They need more practice.)
@impoftheperverse:
You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
An unrelated-but-related article on Autism:
[www.sciam.com]
Also, for all the people claiming Mr. Rushton abused his authority as police chief, read the article again. Nowhere does it say he even used his position in any way. If he had, there would be a lawsuit. The women even claims that it was embarrassment (well deserved embarrassment, probably) that made her leave in the end, with no mention of abused authority.
As a parent to an autistic child, I’m fairly amused by the insensitivity shown here. It’s hard enough raising an autistic child, but it’s even tougher when you realize how callous people are with regards to going out. Apparently quite a few posters here have little compassion when it comes to that sort of thing.
Sometimes myself, my wife, and our 2 children (1 autistic) need to get out some. Keeping our autistic daughter cooped up inside all day so she doesn’t disturb anyone is very bad for her, as she is extremely destructive. So getting her out to a park or for some fries in a restaurant is good for everyone, and helps us as parents center ourselves for the coming days of trying to help her.
I think a lot of people here take their perfect lives and perfect kids for granted.
Of course we don’t want our child crying in public… and of course we prepare for that scenario should it arise. We’re armed with soothing M&Ms and as soon as we sit down at a restaurant we immediately order fries before any of our meals so that she’ll have something to eat (as she pretty much only eats things made out of potatoes). If she does begin to cry and we can’t stop her, then we’ll take her out and hope she stops. But get this: she often squeals when she’s happy too! So we’re damned if we do.
Regardless of our struggle, many of you would be a lot happier if you complained less about things out of your control. We do everything we can to quieten our daughter when she’s having a hard time, but if we have to also deal with other glaring people when we try and go out once a month, things are even more difficult.
Here we go again. Once someone says the word “autisim” we must all grin and passivly put up with anything a child is doing.
Kid having a fit and rolling around on the floor of a plane trying to take off? “Leave him alone. He’s autisitic”
Kid screaming at the top of her lungs non-stop in a restaurant? Too bad. 50-60 other people will just have to be miserable so that one autisitc kid and her mom can go to a restaurant like everyone else.
Is there any behavior we could complain about an autistic child doing in public without being treated like heartless monsters? What if the kid squatted down on the floor and took a dump? What if she started throwing food? What would the acceptable response to these behaviors be?
@impoftheperverse:
Excellent points.
Everyone else shouldn’t have to suffer because of some stupid “parent” who isn’t parenting.
@spryte: Thank you for the voice of reason. Reading some of the comments here show you how intolerant and badly informed some people are on autism.
No one will know how it is or how it’s like until (God forbid) they have their own child or personally know someone close afflicted with autism.
@opedog:
I think this all depends on where you’re taking your child for a meal. Are you going to family restaurant? A place where they serve pancakes? If so, I don’t care if your kids cries. It’s a family place, it’s sort of expected. But are you taking your kid to a more adult establishment? Is there a bar? If so, you might want to rethink your decision.
It seems to me that autism may be the new ADD.
Since there is no absolute test for diagnosis – everything is getting called autism. Now I’m not saying their arent kids with autism, but it seems like its getting pretty prevalent.
@ARPRINCE:
Let me ask you this as sort of a devil’s advocate: Why should I, who has no child, have to be informed about your autistic child? I don’t know you and certainly don’t know your kid is autistic. You really expect the world as a whole to stop on a dime for you and your child? Are you and yours more important than the rest of the population as a whole? Do you really want you child to be treated as special or disabled? Don’t you want your kid to be treated just like any other kid?
Seriously, why should it be incumbant upon me to learn about the minutiae of your family? How am I supposed to know? Or do you enter every public place with a bullhorn announcing that you have an autistic child?
All the rest of us see is a parent and a child. We can’t see the illness. How can we be sensitive to it if we don’t know it’s there?
@apotheosis: You made my punday.
I wonder if I created a restaurant designed specifically for parents with screaming brats? They could come and scream ALL they want, hell, they’d get money off their check if they screamed the loudest! You know who would go there? Nobody, not even the parents of these little assholes, because nobody likes screaming kids.
Disability or not, the onus is on the parents to ensure their child is quiet during the meal. If it were my kid, I’d (and I know it’s harder with an autistic kid, but still possible) tell them we’re quieting now or we’re leaving. Tell it to them once more then remove them. Once they can maintain composure they can come back in.
@Magnakai Haaskivi: Saying she “began crying” does not mean that she wasn’t carrying on and on. It was a choice of the writer of the article and doesn’t factor into the timeline.