There are few things in life that will test your mettle more than a savvy car salesman. He is a master manipulator and has a PhD in messing with your head. Even if you have checked out some confessions of a car salesman and carefully studied the evil “four-square” technique, there are still some things you could say that tell a salesman you are a soft target. CNN Money and Edmunds.com have put together a list of 6 things you should never say to a car salesman. The list, inside…
1. I love, love, love this car
Even if you fall in love with a car, maintain your composure and don’t let the salesman realize it. It is easy for salesmen to manipulate you when they know that you will do almost anything to own the car.
2. I need to get a car by tomorrow
Even if you need the car quickly, act like there’s no desperate need for the car. If he senses your desperation he will realize that you won’t be thinking carefully about your choice and will accept most anything.
3. I need a monthly payment of…
The monthly payment is only one part of the equation. A salesman can give you that monthly payment and still rip you off in another area such as in the number of payments or trade-in value. Ideally, you should calculate what you can afford based on your monthly budget and expected trade-in value and negotiate that big number. Now, agree on a monthly payment and then negotiate any trade-in value.
4. My trade-in is outside
If you let him know it is outside he will want the keys. If the deal starts to go south, your keys may be somehow misplaced in which case you will be forced to listen to his sales pitch longer than you want to.
5. I don’t know anything about leasing
Even if you don’t plan on leasing a car, you should learn about leasing to help make you impervious to the salesman who may try to sell you the idea. Usually, leasing only makes sense if you know that you won’t be keeping the car for several years. If you do plan to lease, you should be familiar with the costs of leasing beyond monthly payments. You should also be aware of how many miles are included in the lease and any money that needs to be paid up front or at the end of the lease.
6. My credit is a little spotty
Often, consumers underestimate their own credit score. Ideally, you should try to secure a loan you can use for “plan B” in case you don’t like what the dealership has to offer. This gives you bargaining power and lets you know more clearly where you stand with your credit rating.
6 things never to tell a car salesman [CNN]
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When it comes to negotiating with car dealers, I learned all my negotiation skills by watching the movie, The Fifth Element.
“Does any one else want to negotiate?”
/Sarcasm…
@Bruce: Kill the manager and the rest of the salesmen lose their composure >:D
@Antediluvian: Being willing to leave is very good, but being nice is important as well. If you were a jerk to the salesman, they will not call back.
One sleazy thing to do though is to buy a car with an extended warrantee. In most states there is grace period that lets you back-out. Often you have to pay a fee for this, but you may be able to save money. It is sleazy because it effects the salesman’s compensation, ie he gets less than he expected.
@TotallyStumped: I don’t know if VW does this, but some manufactures pay the dealers for each month the car is on the lot past a set time.
There is a reason most salesmen treat buyers like dickheads, its because most buyers ARE! I sell cars privately…here is an example. “why is this car dearer than others? I can buy this model out of the paper for $500 less”…..I said, “Then go & buy one.” & walked away. He bought it!
i just re-read that foursquare post from March of last year, and while it was brilliant, this little throwaway line from one of the commenters was what really struck me:
Now that gas is nearly 3 dollars in Chicagoland… I bike everywhere.
NEARLY three dollars a gallon… a year and change ago… we were so lucky and we didn’t even know it.
with gas now around 4.50/gal in places like NYC, Chi, LA, and other major cities, the question is really, why would you buy a car at all these days….
The winter suggestion is excellent.
When I go get a new car, I usually do it in January, 25° outside, and at 6 PM at night. Why? Because dealers are not selling due to people paying Christmas credit cards off. Guess what, salesmen need to pay off Christmas too….. Also dealers like the feel good at themselves when they go home so they negotiate better at the end of the day.
What I do is I look at a car online, then on Sunday morning when the dealer is closed and the salesmen are at church repenting for ripping people off, look the car over real good, then if I am still interested, I go look up the worth values, number crunch, and come up with two figures
the ‘in the ballpark lowball’ (you can lowball yourself too low out of a deal) and the ‘absolute max I would pay that I think the car is worth’
I look at the car again with the salesman, test drive it and begin the deal by offering the ‘in the ballpark lowball’ (they usually do not bite on the in the ballpark lowball). The dealer counters and run’s his sales pitch as I block him out of my mind…. I hold firm to the in the ballpark lowball. He goes back to the manager.
I never reveal the ‘absolute max I would pay’ figure (If the dealer asks, I hold firm to the lowball) and every time I have dealt, the dealer at the very end of the negotiation when I tell him it’s the ‘do or die time’ comes back with the final offer between the ‘lowball’ and the ‘absolute max I would pay’ figure (more towards the lowball side).
It’s like Reaganomics win-win. I ‘win’ by getting the vehicle below my ‘maximum worth value willing to pay for price figure and the dealer feels he won by ‘believing’ that he got me to crack and budge upward even though I knew what I was willing to pay the ‘absolute max I would pay’ figure but ended up paying below that price.
Plus, he goes home to his wife happy, feels that his life has a purpose, brags about how he made me ‘crack’ to his other sales buddies the next morning (but if he knew the true story… He Budged) and has commission to pay off some of his Christmastime maxed out credit cards
@HurtsSoGood: I think they copy your driver’s license a) so they know that you’re actually licensed to drive before you drive off in their car, and b) so they have enough info to file a police report if you never come back from your “test drive.” I suspect this is an insurance requirement for them.
@Rectilinear Propagation: My first bit of advice would be to ask people you know about the dealerships around you. There are great dealerships out there, used and new lots. There are also horrible ones, and in my experience the larger ones are the worse ones.
In my town, there is a used place my brother has had several good dealings with. When I went to look at a car at that lot, the first thing out of the salesman’s mouth was “How is your credit?” I have never gone back to them. There are also several good new/used dealers here and one conglomerate that I wouldn’t buy a car from regardless of its price.
Most of the advice here is pretty good. The keys are to look at your final price, interest rate, and trade-in value. Negotiate these one at a time. If possible, get financing in advance or pay cash, but always start with agreeing to a price and then working on the trade and then how you’re paying for it.
It’s pretty simple, and you’re likely to get screwed at least slightly your first time. Take someone who’s been through it with you to help guide you if you’re uncomfortable.
arsbadmojo – great points, and I used all three this past April.
We’d spent half the day with the salesman, enough time that when he offered me $1500 below blue book for our trade-in, and I started to walk out the door, the dealership magically offered full blue book value for it.
It wasn’t a stree-free experience, but pretty painless as far as such things go.
Drove in with a Dodge Caravelle…tranny shot and motor down three quarts so I parked it real tight nose in.
Look man I say, I need a bigger car, this here Chevelle has a cop motor and suspension. Runs like a champ but I still need more room. I like that Caprice over there…how much?
swap plus 200$ was the final deal.
Small victories, I think the Herb Tarlicks are still winning on the flag lots of life.
FLAG LOTS HAS TO BE YOUR NEXT FEATURE!
Years ago, young and pretty broke (but with great credit ratings), we were looking for a new-to-us car. We hit the row of used car dealers and got the full-on salesperson pressure.
After the 3rd shop, seeing the car my husband really wanted, I did the “tired wifey” routine of no, we’re not doing the check thing and just pulled out two credit cards and smiled. Told them that between the two cards, we could buy that year’s model off the lot if we felt like it, and did they really want me to use my last check in the checkbook (showed them the check) as an “earnest offer” for the “sales manager”?
The look on the sales guy’s face was priceless.
I bought my last car and got a huge deal on it and even upped my trade to a fair level. Go into the dealer that has the car you want a half hour before closing on Superbowl Sunday. By the time you get to making an offer/deal they were itching to get out of there and got no argument in chopping $6k off the whole thing, which given the price of the car was really sweet. The pregame stuff was starting and they had it on the radio and I could tell none of those guys wanted to stay another minute and basically agreed to everything just to get the day over with.
When it comes time to talk numbers, I insist on two things. One, always quote me the out-the-door, all taxes paid, title and plates assigned to my possession price. Two, I will not pay ANY “documentary” or “conveyance” or “convenience” fee. I will pay the regional advertising fee and the freight fee. But in any quote to me, there are to be ZERO additional charges.
One time, they tried to pull the “doc” fee after the deal was agreed upon. “You mean to tell me you aren’t going to buy this $20,000 automobile over $100?”, the sleezoid said to me. I replied, “You mean to tell me you won’t sell me this car and take the commission you’ve spent the past three hours trying to get over $100?” I stood up to leave and three seconds later, he relented. They still made a profit, and rightly so.
I have so many friends who have been stuck with loans with such a high interest rate that their loan payment was only paying interest. Talk about total price not monthly payment.
What I have done is get a bank loan before I go.
I love that movie “6.. miles of cars”
Another good movie is “suckers”
@thatguy01: Definitely not in Texas. In Texas you pay 6.25% of the vehicle’s purchase price. Your trade-in is considered part of your payment. Which is why Texas has such a thriving private party market for vehicles.
@MercuryPDX: Ditto, I absolutely HATE LEATHER SEATS! Why anyone thinks sitting on the hide of a dead animal is luxurious is beyond me. The leather sweats, you sweat, you just end up this damp wet mess wherever your skin touches the leather. The perforated stuff I can live with. A dealer tried to sell me a Lariat F250 and I told him “I’ll only buy it if you take enough off the price to get this SOB reupholstered.” Oh yeah, I walked away from that dealer.
The dealer I bought my truck from in Missouri was pretty easy to deal with. Aparrently they were desperate to get it off the lot (despite Diesel fuel at the time being cheaper than gas at $1.25/gal) and took 4 grand off the price without flinching. Heck they didn’t seem much concerned about it as all they required for a test drive was a photocopy of my licence and handed me the keys. I didn’t give the dealer a royal screwing, but I did get a fair price.
@4ster:
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG…
Anything to do with price that you’re told over the phone holds about as much weight as a crepe paper water glass.
There’s two numbers you get over the phone, a lowball figure to entice you in or a MSRP quote. An honest phone sales person will tell you so too.
Your best buy is really biting the bullet and spending an hour or four at the dealership. Listen, everyone wants something for nothing what are you gonna be willing to put up with to earn your discount?
And to be honest, the industry is moving towards a pure pricing model like with Scion. Word is when Toyota splits Prius as a seperate line it will also adopt a pure pricing policy which will thirll those paying 8k over MSRP right now in hot markets.
Also, if you call me and ask for fleet, you better be a business owner and looking for 2 or more vehicles. If you ask for fleet and then ask for a single loaded vehicle under your own name we aren’t giving you fleet pricing. It’s a sham and you can thank edmund’s dot communists for that.
You really want the deal with the least ammount of effort, use the dealership’s website. Send a submission and be clear in what you want in your car. Being obtuse or vauge is not helping you. The reason we and most dealers give internet customers a discount is because they’re simple deals.
If you complicate it then the incentive for the dealership to get you out at bottom dollar goes away.
Be willing to come in still, don’t expect to negotiate fully online unless you’re dealing with a dealer in a different state. Most dealerships employ “internet managers”, these are usually former or current top salesmen who get more leadway with uppermanagement and will generally have a price menu they can make your deal off of.
Despite what this site will love to say, there are some people in car sales that love to help and get their customers the best deal. Call or email in and just like in Road House BE NICE. Being a hardball isn’t going to endear you to anyone but your own ego.
@MisterE:
No you think you’re in control and really just being kind of a jerk.
When you go to sears to buy jeans do you demand a price 10-15% below the listed price? Do you come in with another retailers credit card and demand they charge it there?
So why do you do that with a car? Because you can?
Granted the auto industry is to blame for allowing it to continue, but lets put it this way. If everyone is getting a discount, who’s covering the difference? Other customers are.
AGAIN, what have you done to earn this discount you’re demanding?
@PSN: kingpsyz:
What have I done to “earn” this discount? Nothing, other than being willing to buy the car. The dealer doesn’t have to offer me the discount. Heck, he doesn’t have to sell to me at sticker, he could demand $100k over sticker. I can also walk. It’d the dealer’s choice whether he’d rather sell the car to me for invoice less incentives or not sell the car to me at sticker.
@JustThatGuy3:
Let’s just stop at the nothing part. Where else can you buy a retail good for whatever price you deam “willing” to pay?
And dealers wouldn’t need to sell for over MSRP if there weren’t people demanding to sell them a vehicle a dealer’s cost.
Something to keep in mind, when I said “what have you done to earn this discount” I don’t mean you shouldn’t get one, I mean you should be willing to spend a little time and let the management decide what they want to do to make the deal.
Generally internet customers get the best deal, but we’ve had people walk in off the street and buy a Prius for invoice cause they caught a manager wanting a deal, where at the time our internet price was $500 off MSRP.
And to all the commenters suggesting being rude, or demanding. Don’t… I don’t come into your job kicking dicks out your mouth or pissing in your cheerios. Don’t do it to us.
You come in a pleasent mood and knowing what you want and you’ll still get the deal. If you think your salesperson is skeevy. ASK FOR ANOTHER ONE! You’re not obligated to work with the first person to say hi.
@MrEvil: You are incorrect sir. In Texas, the sales tax on motor vehicle purchases is on the net of price less trade-in.
[www.window.state.tx.us]
One reason we have a thriving used-car market is because we have weather that doesn’t promote rust, as long as you live away from the immediate vicinity of the Gulf Coast.
@PSN: kingpsyz:
“Let’s just stop at the nothing part. Where else can you buy a retail good for whatever price you deam “willing” to pay?”
Everywhere. There isn’t a single good where I’m not free to walk away. The dealer doesn’t have to sell the car to me at the price that I’m “willing” to pay, but he can’t MAKE me pay more than that.
The dealer puts a price on the car: sticker price. I’m free to pay that price or offer a different price. The dealer is free to accept my offer, counteroffer, or tell me to take a hike.
The problem that dealers face is that the product that the Honda Accord that dealer A sells is EXACTLY THE SAME as the Honda Accord that dealer B sells. New cars are a commodity, like iPods or Campbell’s Soup.
I don’t support being nasty, and I don’t want to waste the salesman’s time, or have mine wasted. When I come in, it’s because I want to test drive. Once my test drive’s done, I’ll let the dealer know that I’m not buying that day, but, if and when I decide I do want to buy from that dealer, I’ll give him the chance to match my best price, plus $100 (for the test drive fee).
After that, there’s no reason for me to be in the dealership except to pick up the car. I use the program described above (nobody has to contact me, it’s up to them if they want to accept my offer or not), and get the deal done. Then, I come in and pick up the car.
I never said you should be forced to purchase something, I asked what other retail situation do you ask for a price other than what is listed on the product?
Granted it’s a large purchase, but people seem to haggle more on cars than they do on TVs or houses now.
Personally, I think haggling is a waste of everyone’s time. Car dealerships as we know them are not long for this world.
The car dealership of the probable near future will be simpler afairs where you come and test drive on a demo unit, order color and options and drive home. No price back and forth, no floating pricing on ad ons if any at all.
Everything will have a straightforward price and that’s that.
The manufacturers prefer this because it prevents bad media from people like that scumbag on the Prius story the other day.
@PSN: kingpsyz:
For items where I know there’s the opportunity to haggle, and someone who has the power to haggle, I’ll do it. Cars, real estate, jewelry, appliances, etc.
Not going to do it at Walgreens when buying toothpaste.
Frankly, I’d be fine with the model you discuss, the problem is, there’s always going to be some wiggle room. Even Saturn dealerships haggle – the car price is fixed, but all of a sudden your 1993 Civic is worth $12k on the trade-in.
The manufacturer can’t really require dealers to stick to a fixed price (it’s Manufacturer’s SUGGESTED Retail Price), and the dealers have tremendous political power (big donors at the state level), so any attempt by the manufacturers to go direct is almost certainly a non-starter.
@PSN: kingpsyz: You couldn’t be more right about all of this.
I sold for 3 years and when I worked at VW when the convertable Beetles came out we were told that any offer that was less than the $5000 over MSRP was not even to be put on paper. Why the hell should it be discounted when we had people begging to pay full pop?? One of the best days I have ever had as a salesman was when my Closer heard me talking to a guy who was demanding to see the invoice and was only going to pay $500 over cost, blah, blah, blah, and being a total prick about it. I was politely trying to explain why it wasn’t possible when my Closer
called me over and told me to tell him “Get the hell off my lot.” The look on the guy’s face was catharic for me. It is the one thing that every sales person who has ever had to deal with J/Os like that and had to stand there and take it, has wanted to say. After he called me just about everything but my name, he left angrily and I was at peace. An hour later I sold 2 Conv. Beetles to a guy who was buying them for his twin daughter’s 16th Birthdays. Life was good.
People have to remember that it is a supply and demand business. If you are looking for a garden variety Civic that they have in bunches, yeah you can expect to get a deal, but don’t go in making demands and being a prick because a lot of places would rather knee cap you and move along to the next one than work with you.
@Mr.SithNinja:
Again, not recommending that people be jerks, but the example you give (Beetle Convertible just after release) is definitely the outlier. For the vast, vast majority of vehicles, the product is readily available from multiple dealerships.
Bring cash and you can knock down the price considerably.
Boy I’m way late on posting to this thread, but here goes.
Last time, I took my kids to the dealership. We’re talking an infant, 1-year-old, and six year old. Then as they ran around the dealership, we ignored them.
This gave us leverage in two ways: one, if we needed to take a breather from negotiations, my wife would say she needed to nurse the baby. Easy out. Second, while I was ignoring the kids, the salesman was distracted because they were opening car doors and honking horns (which I got very good at ignoring, or at least pretending that I was ignoring.) This changed his priorities somewhat, and gave us some leverage.
@Psychodad1961: You know, I want to take you with me the next time I buy a car. What’s your rate? lol. The part about making them take their awful decals off? PRICELESS.
I told the Scion Dealer I loved my car- and then haggled away on just about ever one off fees they tried to hit me with. Fixed pricing may afford a high margin, but at least you get to enjoy the moment and not put your poker face on. Its called a dealership (dealer-ship)- deal get it?
@cecilsaxon:
Actually champ, Scion gives dealers a $600 profit per Scion. Far from a large margin. Toyota dealers are required to offer Scion and at pure pricing to remain in their good graces.
Dealers that don’t participate or loose their Scion contract for what you just described also loose a ton of allocation.
If your Scion dealer did allow you to haggle on fees they could loose their contract and possibly their Toyota license to sell. So if you expect me to belive a dealership risked an entire business for one deal you’re sorely mistaken or found about the dumbest Scion champion ever…
@james:
One of the biggest misconceptions in the car business. Dealers loose money on cash deals, why do you think this is helping you?
You want a good deal, finance with the manufacturer on a model carrying an incentive rate and bring a decent down and some good credit with you. The dealer still gets backend profit because it’s financed so they can move more on the front end.
When you buy cash their only source of income is in the vehicle itself, so they’re less likely to move. If you do find a lot where somehow cash gets you a better deal, your either at a fly by night used car lot or you just think you’re getting a deal and the dealer might be sitting on a large dealer incentive.
Never buy a used car in the winter. Only on the hottest summer day.
A) to test out the a/c
B) if the car was in a flood, your less likely to notice any smells in the winter. I once bought a vehicle that didn’t smell until the summer, then the moldy must was very strong after sitting with the windows up in the sun all day.
I am a car salesman, and yes I have a phd in messing with your head, and I could tell you the absolute best way to get the best deal but why would I?
FYI – if you have cash, it might actually be in your advantage to say you don’t know anything about your credit or how financing works. Ask them if they can drop the price a few hundred more if you take a higher interest rate. Then pay the whole thing off the first month. Make sure there’s no pre-pay penalty first, though.
@JustThatGuy3:
Exactly! The proper thing to do is just call the police and tell them you problem. Make sure the salesman hears you. Tell the police you plan to file charges.
@bagumpity:
not really, only if they finance you with a 30 day waiver of intrest.
otherwise be it over 1 month or 72, you’re still paying that total percentage ammount.
Here’s one for ya; “lie” about the interest rate you’re getting from the bank. I told the dealer I was getting a 4.75% car loan through my bank (it was actually 5.0%) so he got me a loan for 4.5%.
@PSN: kingpsyz: Please explain more. Are you saying that your first payment includes the interest for the entire loan? How could that be possible?
From going to Edmunds and using their auto loan calculator, the monthly payment on a $10,000 loan at 7.09% for 60 months is 198.43. Multiply that by the number of payments, and you get $11,905.80 (the total cost to repay). The difference (amount of interest paid) is $1,905.80. Unless there’s a pre-payment penalty, the most you’ll pay in interest by paying off the loan on the first month is roughly $13 ($198.43/1.0709). Assuming you can get them to drop $100 in the price of the car, you’ve saved yourself $87. Granted, that’s not a lot of money but it’s enough for a good meal.
I’m no accountant, so I won’t be offended if someone more savvy corrects my misunderstanding.
@bagumpity: I think what he means is that you will still have to pay 1 month’s interest, which at 7.09% would be (7.09%/12 = ) 0.59% of the purchase price, or $59 on top of the $10,000 in principle, putting you $41 ahead rather than $87. The way amortization works, a greater percentage of early payments is interest on the principle than in the later payments. You have to pay the interest racked up that month on the remaining unpaid principle, then anything else on top of that goes towards reducing the principle.
Thus, if your loan is amortized over 60 months rather than 36, but the interest rate is the same, you will pay exactly the same amount of interest in that first monthly payment, but the overall payment is lower because you and the bank have agreed that you have 60 months to repay the balance rather than just 36. In subsequent months, the interest amount paid on a 60 month loan will be higher than a 36 month loan simply because the remaining principle balance is higher, and not being settled as quickly.
@texmandie: Good explanation, thanks. I did some research on my own, and it’s also possible that he might be thinking of a RISC (Retail Installment Sales Contract).
In a RISC, you’re simply agreeing to pay the amount of the sale plus a finance fee. Because the fee is usually equal to the interest you would have paid on the loan, it’s easy to assume it’s the same thing as an installment loan. It’s not. Using the same $10,000 and 60mo @ 7.09% example the total finance charge would be $11,905.80. In a RISC, you simply agree to pay back this entire amount. The schedule is more or less up to you, except that you can’t miss a payment. There’s no penalty for pre-payment (the dealer is happy to tell you this- it’s true) because paying off early doesn’t change the amount you agreed to pay.
In an installment loan, you pay a percentage of the principal every month, spread out so that the payments are equal. If the amount of principal is reduced via a pre-payment, the amount of interest is reduced thereby. They handle the change either by reducing the monthly payment or reducing the number of payments. You might also be subject to a pre-payment penalty or “rule of 78s” schedule on the unpaid interest.
My own situation went like this: I bought a new car and got $1500 cash back for going through their financing. I also asked for, and got, $100 of their “dealer finance reserve.” It was a simple interest installment loan (good thing, since I had no idea what a RISC was or how they worked). The only requirement was that I had to keep the loan three months or pay a pre-payment penalty. I paid all but $100 on the first month, then made two more payments of $50 and a payoff payment of something like $9. So for $9 in interest, I got $1591. The loser in this deal was the financing company, who paid the dealership 4% of the finance charge up-front and received only $7 in interest in return. They lost close to $2000.