Wal-Mart & Local Police Detain Man, Threaten Arrest Over 4 Bags Of Sugar
This guy was trying to make strawberry jam this morning, and he had to go buy 4 bags of sugar. The cashier threw away the original receipt but put the sugar in a couple of Wal-Mart shopping bags, so Ben left the store thinking everything was, you know, normal for a Saturday morning. Then he was stopped by a security guard, a store manager, and an off-duty police officer, all of whom went batshit crazy on Ben over his 4 bags of sugar and lack of receipt. Before it was over one of the shopping bags was ripped open, a bag of sugar lay broken open on the parking lot, the guard had threatened to kick Ben's ass, and the police officer said, "you'd better not be lying to me." Ben was marched back into the store so they could verify with his cashier that he wasn't a sugar thief. Welcome to Wal-Mart, the police-state superstore where prices are low and civil rights don't exist.
I was at the Germantown Wal*Mart to buy four bags of sugar because earlier in the day I had been at Butler’s Orchard picking 10 pounds of strawberries to turn into delicious jam. And to make delicious jam, you need lots of sugar. I grabbed four bags and headed to the checkout, where I also decided I could use some refreshment. I grabbed a Mountain Dew from the cooler, but the cashier had already processed my card for the four bags of sugar. He apologized and rang up another transaction for the Mt. Dew. At that point, he crumpled up my receipt for the four bags of sugar and handed me the receipt for the Mountain Dew. I headed for the exit, and was greeted by Wal*Mart security who wanted to check my receipt. I produced the receipt for the Mountain Dew and explained that the cashier had tossed the other receipt for the sugar. I would repeat this explanation 6 more times before this affair ended.
At this point, I attempted to leave, but was told I could not. I immediately asked if I was being detained. I was told “no” but that I wasn’t allowed to leave unless I walked back to the cashier to get a receipt. I said that I was “happy to let the security guard talk to the cashier, but that I was heading home with my sugar.” I attempted to leave again, and the door was blocked. I asked again if I was being detained, and was told “yes.” I asked on what grounds, and the security guard said “Because you stole.”
I informed the guard I had done no such thing, that the sugar was my property, and I was leaving with it. This time I pushed passed him and left the store, with him following me demanding I stop. As I left, he grabbed my bags, ripping them open. As he followed me he attempted to grab my bags, and grab the items inside of my bags. At one point, he told me that he should “kick my ass.” As I reached the end of sidewalk outside the store and headed towards my car in the parking lot, another employee came running and blocked my path. Soon afterwards a manager arrived. I again asked if I was being detained. I was informed by the manager that I was. I again asked for what reason, and was told by the original security guard that it was for stealing. I once again informed them that I hadn’t stolen anything and that I was leaving.
At this point, the manager informed me that Wal*Mart policy did not allow me to leave the store without showing a receipt. I said that I had paid for my merchandise, that it was in fact a store employee that had thrown away my receipt, and that I was not compelled to prove that items that I legally owned belonged to anyone but me. Again I inquired whether I was being detained, and was told my only options were to go back in the store to talk to the cashier or have the police called. I informed the manager that she was welcome to call the police, because I had done nothing wrong. At tht point, she radioed for someone to call the police. Once again, I started to walk to my car as the two security guards again attempted to block my path in the parking lot.
At this point, and off duty police officer came to the scene (he appeared to be heading into Wal*Mart to shop, not the one called by the manager), showed his badge, and asked for an explanation. Everyone was calmed by this, and tensions visibly eased on the faces of the Wal*Mart employees. I explained my side, and Wal*Mart employees explained their side. After the explanations, I asked the police officer if I was being detained, and he said yes. I asked on what grounds, and he said “suspicion of theft.” The officer told me I could give them “their merchandise back” and leave at that point or I could go inside and talk to the cashier. I indicated that since he was detaining me, I was willing to go back into the store and speak with the cashier, but that the merchandise belonged to me. At this point, one of the bags of sugar fell from my ripped bags and split open on the pavement. It was an accident, but I could tell no one believed me when I said so.
On the way into the store, the officer informed me that it was his day off, he had important things to do, and he didn’t want to take me to jail. But I had one last chance to give them their merchandise back and just leave, because if I wasn’t telling the truth, he would personally drive me to the station. I agreed wholeheartedly with him, and told him so. I’m fairly certain he thought I had actually stolen the sugar at this point. He then asked what I needed so much sugar for anyway. At the time, I was literally covered with strawberry juice. It had stained my shorts and shirt red, and I thought it was fairly believable that I was going to make strawberry jam. He still seemed skeptical, asking where I had been picking strawberries, and only seemed to believe me after I was able to name Butler’s Orchard. He then asked if I had ID, what my name was, and how old I was. Upon telling him this, he said “You better not be lying to me,” so perhaps I was too quick to think he didn’t assume I was guilty.
Of course, upon re-entering the store and speaking with the cashier, he informed everyone that I had paid for the sugar and the receipt was found in his trash can. His story differed slightly in that he told them he had given me the receipt but I had thrown it into his trash can. That was impossible based on where his trash can was from the checkout counter, but it didn’t matter. The original security guard was cordial, shook my hand, and apologized. The Wal*Mart manager and police officer lectured about how next time if I just cooperated and gave up my rights at the beginning, it would have been much easier on everyone. Trust me, Wal*Mart, there won’t be a next time.
If you defend Wal-Mart for this treatment of an average customer, you are a slave. There are other ways to prevent shoplifting. How about the security guard follows the suspected shoplifter to his car to take down his license plate while radioing someone in the store to confirm whether or not his story is legit? Besides that, Ben had four bags of sugar in Wal-Mart branded plastic bags—the likelihood that he was shoplifting them was low, and the value of the sugar to the store was virtually nonexistent compared to other merchandise that was and is probably being stolen from Wal-Marts all over America this weekend. No matter how belligerent a customer is in this situation, the guard, manager, and officer should remember that if the customer is innocent, he has a right to be belligerent and offended that he's being harrassed to such a degree—especially over something as trivial as four bags of sugar.
Update: Ben wrote back to us, "To their credit, they did replace the bag of sugar."
"Detained by Montgomery County Police For Buying Sugar" [Metblogs] (Thanks to everyone who sent this in!)
(Photo: kaibara87)
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Comments:
Some group needs to orchestrate a "Leave Wal-Mart Without Showing Your Receipt" Day. It would be interesting to see how the store would deal with dozens of people trying to simultaneously bypass the receipt-checker. Maybe even throw in some extra people just carrying Wal-Mart bags filled with crumpled up newspaper to spice things up.
Montgomery County what? England? New Zealand? This story needs to be written better.
So, the security guard threatened to kick his ass did he? In the parking lot, not in the store even. All I know is that, here in Texas, you threaten me in a public place, such as a parking lot, I have every right to pull out my stun gun and defend myself. Shit, in Texas if I have a concealed weapon license and you threaten me in a public place, I have a right to defend myself from bodily harm, such as "kicking my ass", with my weapon. I don't carry a gun, but a stun gun works nicely and is totally legal for anyone to own. Threaten me, get the shit shocked out of you. That's what happens. I wish more people would stand up for themselves.
Always make sure you get your receipt, even if the casher throws it out. I am in no way blaming the customer, don't get me wrong, but where I work, customers throw their receipts away all the time or tell cashiers they don't want them. I've always thought that this is a mistake. Again, this is in no way the customer's fault, the cashier shouldn't have thrown the receipt away, but making sure you have that stupid piece of paper makes things a lot easier for everyone.
i never thought there would ever be such a term as "police-state superstore". maybe it's time to turn libertarian.
THIS IS WHY YOU DO NOT SHOP AT WALMART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They force their employees to work extra hours off the clock you think they give a rats ass about your civil liberties? and cops DEFINITELY do not give a crap about those either.
@scerwup: I think this guy did an awesome job of standing up for himself. Not only does it sound like he kept his calm, but he knew his rights and cooperated with the police at the end. "Standing up for yourself" doesn't always involve shooting or beating the shit out of someone. Maybe in Texas it does...
Maybe it's just me, but I have never been asked to provide a reciept on the way out of Wal*Mart.
Costco, Home Depot...yes
But NEVER wal*mart.
@scerwup: No, you don't have the right to use deadly force as a defense against mere verbal threats of violence. You can only use deadly force to defend yourself, or others, from the use of deadly force, aggravated kidnapping, murder, rape, or robbery.
Oh I'd pay to be a part of that group! LOL!
I will admit it. I love Wal-Mart. Really, I do. But this is one of their 'policies' that I think is complete and utter bull crap.
Apparently they couldn't handle the truth.
@timmus: I don't know, maybe a key word (Germantown) in the first sentence explains all you need to know.
what on EARTH is going on with that store, just when you think they really can't get any worse....they do.
When they first came after the sugar-hoarding preserves makers,
I said nothing because I'm diabetic...
Once again, drop a line to Walmart corporate. If it happens again, lawsuit time.
BTW, this was Montgomery County, Maryland. The blog is centered around Washington, DC, of which Montgomery County borders.
Guess there was no "sugar" for the the jam maker at walmart.
[blockquote]Shit, in Texas if I have a concealed weapon license and you threaten me in a public place, I have a right to defend myself from bodily harm, such as "kicking my ass", with my weapon[/quote]
Actually, if you have a concealed carry permit, part of the course is to learn non-violent conflict resolution. One of the things you are taught is not to brandish a firearm; you only grab your gun if you intend to fire it.
Your idea, while noble in the face of stupidity, is not advisable.
He should sue them or something to make a point. I can't believe that happened.
Wow, the guy sounds pretty calm about the whole thing. It sounds like he just didn't want to be bothered with having to go back and his receipt. He was dirty, probably sticky and sweaty - I don't blame him.
I throw my receipts out all the time for small purchases, I guess that I'll have to not do that anymore.
I don't think that this is a Wal Mart problem exclusively, because the security at Barnes and Noble told me that he needed to pat me down "because there has been a lot of theft." I told him if he touched me I would call the cops. I actually kind of think that this guy was lucky that a police officer was there, it sounds like the rent-a-cop was punk.
Probably could have been handled better on both sides, but Wal Mart, you need to send this guy a very nice apology.
Why didn't he just set the bags down with the first guard and go get the receipt from the cashier?
Am I the only one not having an ounce of sympathy for the customer?
First mistake, before entering the store you should have asked if the manager would be charged with filing a false police report.
Second mistake, once cleared, you should have stated you wanted to file charges for kidnapping and/or unlawful detainment (they had to have reasonable cause BEFORE you declined to show your receipt) plus charges for assault and battery against the security guard.
Third mistake, it sounds like your priority is to vent to consumerist and 'make them pay' by never going back. Good internet reading, but neither will do anything to change a manager's mind that it's their right to search people they allow on their property, and you were just an idiot for not cooperating. On the other hand, if the manager and the security guard were in jail, and the company was talking to you on how much to settle your lawsuit, I think it would go further to help them understand who was right and who was wrong.
I thought WalMart had a policy of calling the police if the merchandise is over $25.
They actually wasted this time over SUGAR?! SUGAR?!!!!!!
Really Wal-Mart? REALLY?! How many more of these stories are there going to have to be before you FIX your flawed policies and educate your employees?! And what a WASTE of SPACE COP?! He would haul someone to jail for SUGAR?! WTF?!
@screwup - Although I have only taken the CCW course in Minnesota, I'm pretty sure that the cops around here might not look friendly on pulling weapons of any kind on unarmed security guards you are fleeing who just want to see your receipt, regardless of what they may-or-may-not have said. You pull the weapon, you become the escalator. But if you'd like to try to explain that one in court, please let the rest of us know how it works out for you in... 6-12 months?
@Michael Belisle: There's also a Germantown, PA. I assumed that's where this was taking place, since it's the only Germantown I'd heard of before I read your comment. Clearly, just saying "Germantown" doesn't provide enough information.
Can anybody weigh in on the legality of the off-duty officer asking for ID and performing police duties while not on the clock?
I understand an officer's right to ask for my ID when I'm operating a motor vehicle, etc. but I'm skeptical of "Let me see your papers, son" even when the officer is in full uniform and so on, if I'm just walking around.
Further, what sort of standard is "suspicion of theft" held to, when the officer had no more reasonable suspicion than did the security guard? Granted he certainly has the authority to make arrests (if off duty officers can do so), but can cops hold you for whatever reason?
@AtomicallyItemized: Ben wrote back to us, "To their credit, they did replace the bag of sugar." I've added it to the end of the post for future readers.
@cametall: Why does he HAVE to?! The register person threw it away not the customer. That is the whole point of these people...THE WHOLE POINT is once you pay for something and they don't have proof that you have stolen anything you DON'T NEED to show anyone a receipt! WHY WHY WHY do you not get the point?!
When I'm asked for my receipt at Wal-Mart, I ask for the store manager, and say they aren't seeing anything until he or she comes down. Once they're there, I let them search and explain to the manager that if they're going to waste my time, I'm going to waste theirs.
They haven't changed their policies, but it feels better.
@cametall: The ONLY one? Probably not. But I'm not seeing a lot of sympathy for Wal-Mart here.
If you're going to steal something, why the hell would you steal sugar? It's nearly worthless, heavy, and can easily break and spill all over the parking lot. Wal-Mart seriously needs to reconsider their policies if they think that sugar makes up the majority of their shrink.
But as long as people keep shopping there and submitting to their searches, I don't see a reason for them to stop. I won't go there, but millions still do.
@VikingP77:
So he puts himself through this crap because he doesn't want to grab the receipt or the cashier?
Why would you LET the cashier throw it away?
Though it was the cashier's fault the guard had no reason to believe he was telling the truth. He should have explained what happened and then tried to cooperate.
But no, he instead decides to say the cashier threw the receipt away and try to leave.
What would you do if your job was to stop theft?
@nsv:
I'm not saying sympathize with Walmart, but c'mon, people should be able to see both parties failed at handling what happened.
Walmart shouldn't have tossed the receipt, and the customer should have cooperated with the first guard, rather than try to leave after giving a weak explanation.
If I was in this situation, at the point the employee told me he was going to kick me ass and was grabbing for my belongings, I would have dropped them and then dropped his teeth from his mouth a few times, until he doesn't resist anymore, while screaming to not touch me and to get away; then detain him physically and tell him that he is under citizens arrest. At this point I would phone an officer to the scene after taking control of the situation.
The person in this story, after being told that THEY need to go talk to the cashier, should have said no, but that the walmart management can go talk to the cashier as he is under no burden to prove his innocence, but rather walmart has to prove he was stealing. If an american citizen has to prove their innocence everywhere they go, I might think we live in a police state.
Unfortunately, I don't think it would go anywhere in court as to walmart detaining you. They had reasonable suspicion to do so, but once again, they have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are guilty of theft.
Send a letter to corporate and complain. Ask for the managers superior and get in touch with them about the problem. Get in touch with the ACLU and ask them to investigate it. It may be possible that they can put some heat on them for this.
-Phex
-3rd Year PharmD/MBA Candidate
A receipt is also known as "proof of purchase". Why didn't he just co-operate and go back to get the "proof of purchase" - or get it in the first place. He behaved with the same attitude, excuses, and tactics that a "real" thief would use. When you start acting like a dickhead people will treat you like a dickhead. Under what circumstances should Walmart (or any retailer) be allowed to detain suspected shoplifters?
The only thing I would have done differently in such a situation (other than not shopping at WalMart to begin with) is to call the local police upon being told I would be detained for 'theft' or 'shoplifting'. If the staff at the store honestly (or not, apparently) believe that you're stealing, the best thing to do is to start a trail of paperwork and evidence that you're innocent. You'd certainly be put out by all the extra work but it'll make them think twice about accusing people in such a cavalier fashion, which is the whole point of refusing to show your receipt at the door upon exit.
Other than that one goof-up by the OP, he's completely in the right. And at least the off-duty officer knew to use the phrase "suspicion of theft" instead of outright accusing him of theft.
@cametall: Ummmm Wal-Mart PUT HIM through this NOT the other way around....again you are missing the point of ALL these posts.....
"Under what circumstances should Walmart (or any retailer) be allowed to detain suspected shoplifters?"
I would think when a person has literally witnessed a crime (theft etc. etc.). Security guards have no more authority than a regular person. They have the power to make a citizen's arrest (just like a regular person).
I used to work as one so i should know.
They need to train this security guard better.
btw... I LOVE these resiept check stories!
I think the first sentence from Chris Walters after Ben's story bears repeating:
If you defend Wal-Mart for this treatment of an average customer, you are a slave.
@cametall: How did the customer fail?
I don't cherish every tiny slip of paper that crosses my path. I keep receipts if I think I might need them. I wouldn't bother with a receipt for sugar, and certainly wouldn't have taken the time to tell the cashier to pull it out of the trash.
And I don't have any need to cooperate with security if they want to do an unreasonable search. Carrying a bag out of a store is not probable cause, it's something that happens millions of times a day.
@forgottenpassword: When I used to be an armed security guard at a grocery store in Indiana (yes, really..... HUGE crime problem in that area of town at the time), the law as described to us was that we could only detain someone if we had [a] seen them take the merchandise, and [b] had them in sight the entire time afterward, and know for a fact that they had neither discarded the item or paid for it.
It didn't matter how many steaks I'd seen you stuff inside your jacket, if I lost track of you for even an instant, the jig was up, because during the time I didn't see you, you MIGHT have discarded them.
Once you crossed the threshold of the door, with the goods in your possession, THEN we were entitled to perform a citizen's arrest pending arrival of law enforcement. But under no other circumstances (related to this sort of thing anyway, obviously) could the guard detain the "customer".
What a waste of time. I'm sure while this was all happening people were walking out with TV's and unscanned products under their carts.
The OP was completely in the right. Receipt checks are voluntary, and unless someone in the store saw you take something, they can not detain you.
one of the major points that i think is being skipped over here, is that this person should not have been forced to show a receipt at all, even to police until it was proven that he had stolen something...
Here's my take on this story:
I work at wal-mart, and I have seen all the policies relating to this incident. The asset protection policy is about 9 pages long and lists a thorough checklist of things you must SEE before you can even approach a customer, much less detain them.
The people greeters (receipt checkers) are instructed at my store to NEVER stop someone from leaving if they refuse to show their receipt.
My asset protection coordinator is the best I have ever seen and he would never ever participate in something like this. I would not blame Wal*Mart as a whole for these kinds of shenanigans, but the fact that some stores have improperly trained associates, even the store managers. I think improvements to this system need to be in a per-store basis, and I encourage anyone who gets hassled like this to call in and report.
THE BEST PLACE TO REPORT A STORE'S MISBEHAVIOR IS TO THEIR MARKET/DISTRICT MANAGER. Their name should be displayed above the Service Desk (Returns Desk) and ask any supervisor or member of management for their phone number. I guarantee that it will be resolved within a couple days.
Are you sure that was the law... or instead just the store's policy concerning the behavior allowed by it's security staff?
He must not have shown his license when he payed with a credit card, either.