Circuit City Calls The Cops On Customer Who Tried To Redeem $40 DTV Coupon
Circuit City wouldn't let Larry redeem his $40 digital transition converter box coupon unless he signed a credit slip agreeing to pay $40. Larry refused, and asked to cancel the transaction. Circuit City's manager responded by calling the police before following Larry into the parking lot to write down his license plate number.
Larry writes:
I just attempted to buy, at Circuit City, using my charge card, and one of the $40.00 government-provided coupons, a TV converter box. After swiping both cards, the sales clerk presented me with two printouts to sign. One was for $21.19 and the other was for $40.00. Of course the $21.19 was the one for the difference between the purchase price minus the government coupon (plus the sales tax). Both printouts ended with this statement:
"The cardholder agrees to the credit card amount shown hereon and agrees to perform the obligations set forth in the cardholder agreement with the issuer."
I refused to sign the one for $40.00. I spoke with the manager, Kim, (whose last name is "the only Kim in the store") to cancel the transaction. She said she couldn't and insisted that I sign both printouts. I could see this was going to turn into an issue so I quickly pocketed both unsigned receipts, the government coupon card, and my credit card and left while Kim was threatening to call the police. NOTE: I removed no merchandise from the store.
As I was driving away, Kim was standing outside writing down my license number and talking on her cell.
The government is distributing $40 coupons to subsidize converter boxes that will allow people to watch television over-the-air after February 17, 2009, when all broadcast signals switch from analog to digital.
Retailers are required to accept the coupons, and customers are required to sign a slip so the coupon can be redeemed. For some mindless reason, Circuit City is using a credit card agreement as their signature slip, and making it appear as if the customer is about to pay an extra $40.
Circuit City already called Larry to tell him that his $21 charge would be reversed. As for his $40 coupon, apparently, it will be "refunded to the government."
This is a test contextual ad for the SHOPPING category. It should appear on all SHOPPING entries, unless the subcategory has its own ad.
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Comments:
So, this is the second story in 6 months about a York, PA store...York's not a big city...
Yeah, get on my case for teh ZOMG CUSTOMER WAS WRONG. In the immortal words of our dear President, bring it on.
Anyway, while I understand the confusion, the $40 slip clearly references a different account number than the $21 slip; presumably the $40 number is what's imprinted on the government-issued card.
Two problems here on the part of CC:
1) Circuit City, as Carey points out, is treating the coupon as Just Another Credit Card, so the copy on the receipt is the same. To play Devll's Advocate, Larry is the cardholder on both, even though he doesn't have to shell out $40 at all.
2) Calling the cops instead of calming the customer down to explain the concept both doesn't make any sense and is indicative of Kim thinking she's king of a very tiny island.
As for Larry:
Even a cursory glance at the two receipts - conveniently scanned - would've made him realize that he was making a big deal over nothing. The $40 charge wasn't to his charge card at all.
The different numbers should be a tip off they aren't charging your card 2x, just make sure the digits on the $40 one match your converter coupon (which is a credit card like plastic card with mag strip)
In the story he refers to a card (his credit card) and then a coupon (govt. coupon), then he says they swipe both cards? Also looking at the recipts the $40 one has a different set of the last 4 of the card number then the $21, if he only gave them one credit card, he should have looked to see what card what was being charged to.
He may have freaked and ran but why didnt they explain this to the customer, what with the police involvement. He didnt rip anything off? So they freak the poor guy off even more, way to go? You'd thing the York police would get tired of being called everytime a CC customer breaks wind.
Well, Circuit City acted stupid here. Why would they clal the police? Perhaps they were so dumbfounded that someone refused to sign a simple statement. I seriously cannot fathom why you refused to sign the statement, when it's clear that it's not charging to your credit card. The agreement of the government card is on the back of the card. "May be redeemed for $40". Did you not agree to those terms?
But to let you guys know, when it gets that far into the transaction, they *really* can't cancel it. They must return the item. There's no cancel button that far in. It's already tendered through, whether you sign it or not.
And the "mindless reason" Circuit City is putting that where the credit card agreement is that well, do you expect them to redesign their pos because of this?
If you pay attention to the scanned recipts, the one with 'VSA' abbreviated is the one that is being charged $40.00
The one with 'MCG' is being charged $21.Since government DTV cupons are not issued by Visa, its safe to conclude that CC was charging the OP $40.00 , then charged $21 to the government coupon.
I wouldn't have signed a thing either.I would have asked for clarification , and if I was greeted with BS (like this guy) , I would have called the District Manager's Office on the spot.
What, you didn't have the CC's DM contact number on hand before you went to the store? Shame on you.....
In all seriousness, either don't shop at CC (or Best Buy) , or bring some executive phone numbers with your shopping list. You just might be calling them.
Absolutely, Bush2008. I expect them to redesign their POS because of it. For that language to have any legal effect, signing it has to be voluntary-if people are forced to sign it, it's duress, which is a defense for breaking a contract.
@Silversmok3: Good catch. Since we don't know the last four digits of the OP's credit card, we can't tell here which is which. I could see a store like CC mischarging the customer $40 and using the $21 for the coupon. Although, why, I don't know, other than it fits the general incompetence that these people display.
@Silversmok3: That might actually say "USA" and not "VSA"-- the print isn't really clear. "MCG" is most likely an abbreviation for "Master Charge," or the credit card type used by the customer to pay. Either way, the store should be a little more forthcoming with explanations rather than calling the cops on some poor confused customer :-\ I'd be baffled myself if I were in poor Larry's shoes. I swear, these stories get more and more ridiculous every day!
Customer in the wrong.
@lizzybee: I had a Circuit City receipt laying on my desk from when I used my MasterCard there, and it is indeed abbreviated as MCG.
I googled and found a comment on Digg that said the DTV coupons are essentially $40 Visa gift cards that can only be used on the tuners. Makes sense, since just about every place takes Visa, they don't have to implement any special hardware or software to accept the coupons. It's just ran through like any other credit card, thus, the little blurb on the receipt.
Sounds like Larry is amoron.
I work at CC, and the 40 dollar cards are just like visa cards. You have to sign for both pieces in the DPS credit system. If Larry had checked his receipts, he would have noticed that the card numbers are different (check the last 4, 0447 and 5337).
Larry is a moron, and needs to drink a nice cup of STFU.
He should've showed his damn receipt!!!!!
Poor Larry. Looks like his ignorance bit him in the arse.
@t325:
Sounds like Larry is amoron.
I think Amoron died in the fifth century BC. Besides, I hardly see what the Nephites have to do with this.
Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)
Don't blame the customer. When you are standing at the counter & confused it's easy to miss the nuances that jump out after viewing, re-viewing and comparing the receipts on a web page from the comfort of your armchair. The sales clerk and the manager obviously did a poor job of explaining and pointing out the differences.
@grayskies: No, Larry isn't the moron here. The folks at his CC are the morons for not training the cashiers on how to explain this double receipt signing to the customers.
@grayskies: Too bad you don't work at the Circuit City there. Maybe you could've diffused the situation there.
You'd think that somebody working at that Circuit City location can calmly point that out, make sure the customer understands that point and then a quick "Have a good day" afterwards.
Instead, they try to force the poor man into signing two slips without understanding what or why he has to sign and then get the police called when he refuses after not receiving a satisfactory explanation.
@EricaKane: Circuit City in the wrong too.
This is all so stupid and confusing. Why didn't the gubmint just hand out the converter boxes or sell them directly at a discount. Instead you need to order the coupon, get the coupon, go to a retailer, find one that has boxes, run the gauntlet of them trying to sell people a new TV and then the confusion over how to finish the transaction.
I don't think the govt. is always the most efficient but this plan isn't working well either.
My cousin works at another mass merchandiser and just like CC (and to corroborate grayskies), they process the government voucher as a Visa transaction.
I wonder what would've happened if the customer had a $40 Visa prepaid gift card and wanted to use that on the purchase... I mean, Larry wasn't going to be "paying" $40 there either!
I'd say Larry needed to pay more attention if this article indicated at all that they tried to explain what was going on. It doesn't seem they did. I mean, if they said "hey, the thing is, we need a signature on this coupon, see how it's not any credit card number you hold?" (assuming that to be the case with the 40 dollar receipt) it could diffuse a lot of trouble.
No, they called the police instead. For what? Larry refusing to buy an item that they can sell to someone else? How dare you leave CC without buying something, Larry, that's a crime!
@azntg: @azntg: Yes, but what did the writer leave out? Perhaps they did explain, but it wasn't to his satisfaction, and he, being an "informed consumer", stormed out in a rage to post on consumerist!
No, but seriously. I would not doubt for a minute that the person at CC was an absolute idiot, nor would I doubt that the consumer was an absolute idiot. As someone who works at Circuit City, I've seen both a tremendous amount of times. Oh, the many, many stories of stupidity...
I think that the person in the story left out a few points: managers don't just call the police for no reason as they surely need good working relationships with the local rozzers.
Also, he left the shop having already paid $21 and with a used (i.e. invalidated) $40 coupon and no converter box. D'oh! She shouldn't have called the police - she should have called the funny farm!
The government issued card is shown as a Visa card in Circuit City's POS. The card he was using was a Mastercard. The government card is treated just as a credit card, so a customer has to sign for it separately.
The refund would be done for the 21 dollars on the Mastercard, and the 40 dollars would be returned to the government. The government cards are one use only, so Larry will not be able to use the card for another purchase, even though he kept it.
-1 for Circuit city not explaining and calling the cops.
-2 to OP for not reading the damn receipts.
If CC didn't go do something stupid like call the cops (especially when he didn't take any merchandise from the store, the OP would have been completely in the wrong.
Another story about The Paranoid and The Confused.
@BillyShears: The coupon swipes like a credit card and is taken as one by every store not just CC and you have to sign a slip at every store not just CC.
I dont get why this guy got so pissed off as it is quite obvious what is going on. In the documentation he received with the coupon it tell him he would need to sign a slip.
"when all broadcast signals switch from analog to digital."
Sorry, but I gotta...
Most broadcasters are already dishing it out in digital. There is no great switch over. They will cease analog transmissions and carry on with the digital.
Why blame Larry. Circuit City is clearly adding terms to the redemption of the government coupon. This is a very serious issue. Odds are circuit city processes it like a credit card and by default that statement appears on every credit card receipt, but circuit city needs to definitely fix this. It appears they are making the customer guarantee the government's 40 dollars in case the government fails to pay up. Whether it is enforceable or not is not the issue here. That piece of paper probably can be considered a valid contract. Again, Circuit City has no right to add terms the the redemption of the government coupon.
Larry, let me be the first to say that responsible comma use contributes to the sustainability of our environment.
Ok, so that was a complete and utter fabrication of the truth. Throw those commas in wherever you deem necessary. Hell, throw two in a row just to feel safe
Nobody called the police. The manager threatened to call.
I'm not taking CC side here... When Best Buy didn't have what I wanted this morning, I went hime instead of going to CC across the street. But... Maybe Kim was calling the police thinking that Larry was up to something sinister. He threw a fit over them wanting him to sign his name on a goverment voucher, then took both receipts, the voucher card and left. I don't think it's that much of a stretch for Kim to think that he was trying to pass a phony voucher card.
Wah wah wah. The customer is not always right.
@nequam: Well, "Kim" had better have a damn good reason why she "threatened" to call the police on him. Threatening to make a false (or insane) police report because a customer doesn't understand CC's internal policies of processing "coupons" as VISA transactions seems absolutely loooooney.
What if the last 4 digits of the "coupon" matched a person's VISA card, and hence were being put under duress to sign for 2 identical numbers? I know that managing a big box tends to attract a lot of stupid assclowns, but "Kim the only Kim in the store" ought to have enough intelligence to calmly explain the differences between the forms to the customer.
Threatening to call the police because a customer under pressure to pay and get out clearly doesn't understand CC's convoluted coupon/VISA system is a fucking lowball slimy crime - in other words something you'd expect from "Best" Buy General Managers. Sorry to see Circuit City slipping into the scumbucket level of "Best" Buy.....
@bohemian: Well, you don't need to use a coupon to buy the converter box.
These coupons (instant rebates- whatever you'd like to call them) are targeted for the less well-heeled of us in America who can:
1) Only receive OTA signals for an SDTV, (eg. no access to cable TV) for your television viewing.
This deal was made so we, the consumers, would not have to shell out another $500 or so for a HDTV which can receive digital signals with an antenna. Nor be beholden to a signal provider, if you don't want to pay for your TV signal.
Some states have a "public nuisance" statute that can allow a city to shut down a business that calls the police OR has the police called on them a certain number of times in a month. In Arkansas it is 10 times in a 30 day period. The city will go to the courts with all of the police logs and/or reports and the judge will review the situation. If the judge rules that the business is a nuisance, the city permits will be permanently revoked and the business shut down. I saw it happen to a Radio Shack that called the police every time a person just came in and browsed without buying anything and to a Blockbuster Video that charged late fees on EVERY item rented.
I bring this up because if PA has such a statute, I wonder just how long it would take them to go after CC. Every business has to have local permits to operate and if CC is making an ass of itself by calling the police for things like this then they should be shut down. Btw, I saw a mighty Wal Mart store threatened with shut down because of the receipt checking crap. They had the gall to lock all of the exits except for one and only half of it was open. Many violations, manager and security staff fired. It was very funny.
@Slack: All TV is not required to go digital by 2/2009. Only the "Full-Power" stations will be required to switch.
Network stations are only required to have a digital signal in areas that they transmit at "full power".
A lot of these stations have towers in rural areas and they have not spent the money to upgrade in these areas. Additionally, there is no set date that these areas will be going to digital.
These areas will have the same ANALOG signal that is being transmitted today.
The FCC and cable companies seem to be advertising that ALL stations will be converted to digital in 2009. This is very misleading.
DEAR LORD!!!!
ZOMG. I almost had to sign my name twice for two credit cards. It isn't Circuit City's fault that the federal government set up these cards through VISA. So, everybody, FREAK OUT.
But seriously. Am I missing something? Are you too dumb to know that signing a credit slip is MEANINGLESS now anyways? I work at a major retailer (college job, thank you), and I have seen people that freak out about this sort of thing. They don't listen to reason....
How does anyone know that the police were called?? I talk on my phone all the time. I'm not always talking to the cops.
Unclench people. Seriously.
@AshBash: No, they aren't. But that has nothing to do with this post.
@swissdietcoke: Do you chase people into the parking lot and write down their license plates while they leave your store, after you make a call while on the job?
Long time reader of Consumerist, this is the first post that has driven me to actually say something however.
OP is clearly an idiot. The CC may or may not have properly explained how the slips worked. Sounds to me reading this post it didn't matter what the store said, because his ability to read the "The cardholder agrees..." apparently trumped his ability to read the rest of the receipt, and more than likely by that point he wasn't even listening to the manager or associate at that point.
Oh and GJ OP, your converter box coupon is now a brick.
"Semi-sentient customer meets employee/manager with god complex. Hi-jinx ensue."
There. I just summed up 95% of the stories posted in the last month.
WTF is the gov't doing in the electronics business anyway?
Sheep.
This is a case of idiotic government bureaucratic procedures colliding with typical Circuit City personnel incapable of communicating information in an intelligible manner.
I recently received my coupons and was going to soon purchase my box from CC. Had I not read this article, I would have been suspiciously confused too! If I was presented with the $40 credit card receipt to sign, I would think that I am signing to be held financially liable in the event CC couldn't get the $40 from the government. Especially when the liability wording on the $40 receipt is exactly the same as the wording on my $20 credit card receipt with which I am agreeing to pay.
I thought the government's coupons were to be used as just that, a COUPON, not legal tender. Based on the typical consumer's understanding of how a coupon is used, I can see why this is confusing. Especially when we don't have to sign for a coupon in the grocery store. It's a misnomer for the government to call it a coupon if it really is a credit card.
perhaps it's the percocet for my spine injury, but if the coupon is refunded to the gov't, isn't this guy getting screwed again, or can he request another coupon?