Worst Company In America "Elite 8": Capital One Vs Diebold

Here’s your second “Elite 8″ match-up: #12 Diebold VS #36 Capital One

Here’s what some of you had to say about these two companies:

Capital One:
“Cap one is the most evil of all these companies!!Down with cap one!!”

“I’m tired of them wanting to know what’s in my wallet.”

“About six months ago, C1 gave me an unsolicited increase in my credit limit by $1k. Last month, mid-month and without warning reduced my credit limit by $500. I noticed this when I checked my account online and called them. Someone speaking broken English explained that C1 had “noticed I wasn’t using the last $500 of the credit limit they had given me”

“Capital One won’t close your account when you ask. I sent certified mail to Capital One, and my credit report shows that it was closed 2 MONTHS AFTER they received my certified letter.”

“They nickel-and-dime their account holders with fees and charges, then ruin their credit ratings with their predatory, fraudulent practices.”

“I’ve had CapitalOne for going on 10 years and never had an issue with them. They’ve always handled all my requests quickly and without an issue.”

Diebold:
“Diebold, because they still haven’t fixed their voting software, and they hate the idea of paper trails on voting machines. “

“Diebold = threat to the processes of freedom and democracy”

“I voted for Diebold, but it registered my vote for Pat Buchanan.”

“…why is Diebold even on this list. I don’t know about you, but I haven’t bought, had contact with, or used anything Diebold… Ever.”

This is a post in our Worst Company In America 2008 series. The companies nominated for this honor were chosen by you, the readers. Keep track of all the goings on at consumerist.com/tag/worst-company-in-america.


Comments

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  1. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    We can get over Capital One’s problems by not using them. Boycotting Diebold, for the man on the street, is essentially boycotting voting. Diebold has the potential to f*ck the free world. Capital One only has the potential to temporarily (if you consider 7 years temporary) mess up your credit. DIEBOLD FTW (uh, L?).

  2. beavis88 says:

    You guys need to get a new company to handle your polls. Polldaddy is really sucking lately…

    Waitaminute…hmm….Polldaddy == Diebold?? That certainly would explain a lot if true!

  3. JeffDrummer says:

    Diebold’s crimes are conspiratorial at best. There have been a few problems with their voting machines, but maybe we should be blaming our stupid government for that.

    Capitial One looks at my credit report and sends me offers at least a couple times per month. They invade my privacy and make me waste time shredding their crap.

    I vote for Capital One

  4. @speedwell: THIS.

  5. @JeffDrummer: While I agree with you about capital one, to creditors, that nice credit report of yours is fair game. Sad, but true. Though there is no way I can vote for a company you can optionally go with over a company who fucks over democracy… and smiles.
    @speedwell: Exactly.

  6. johnva says:

    @JeffDrummer: Diebold also committed massive fraud against many local governments by claiming their machines were very secure, when in fact, the opposite was true. That is an actual verified thing they did.

  7. johnva says:

    @JeffDrummer: Also, if you’re bothered by the offers of credit, you can opt out of that, and put a stop to it. So you just need to take the initiative to do that if it bothers you.

  8. snowburnt says:

    @JeffDrummer: There’s ways you can prevent people from looking at your credit report

  9. Puck says:

    Diebold, for rigging elections for fascists. I can avoid using Capital One.

  10. Angryrider says:

    Fine, I choose Diebold. It’s not like the average voter really gives a – about voting anyway.

  11. SRSco says:

    Diebold is the new new RIAA (who won last year.) I wish Consumerist would not put political lightning rods into this little contest. I don’t really consider us being consumers of voting machines. How about changing the contest to “worst customer service” award? I have a feeling Diebold will win, but not because of any bad experiences any of us have had, but just because you are all left leaning believers of conspiracy theories.

  12. kylenalepa says:

    Diebold, because if Capital One screws up, they only mess up your life, but if Diebold screws up, they mess up the entire country, at the very least.

  13. jblake1 says:

    I have 2 CapitalOne accounts. They gave me credit when I had not yet established a credit history. I have always paid my bill ontime and they have provided me with great customer service, and I have a super low rate. Thanks CapitalOne.

  14. TBT says:

    @SRSco: And you, sir, are a right wing corporate apologist shill. Not to mention a troll.

  15. battra92 says:

    I don’t wear a tinfoil hat so Capital One.

    @SRSco: More or less, yeah.

  16. mike says:

    I would like Diebold better if their software was open-source.

  17. sisedi says:

    @TBT: Because if you’re on the internet and a person disagrees with you, they live under a bridge!

  18. johnva says:

    @SRSco: It’s not a conspiracy theory to state the fact that Diebold produced crappy, insecure voting machines, thus undermining public faith in our system of elections. It IS a conspiracy theory to say that the machines actually have been used to steal an election (however, the whole problem with electronic voting is that there is no way to prove or disprove such conspiracy theories). Diebold produces a voting product that simply should not exist.

  19. CharlieInSeattle says:

    Diebold of course, unless you don’t care about democracy, then in that case move out of the US to say China.

  20. Bladefist says:

    @SRSco: I agree, but Consumerist didn’t do it. The people who though John Kerry could actually win are upset and need to take out their frustrations on Diebold.

    @TBT: You are a socialist. That’s worse.

    @linus: You have a good point

  21. Anonymously says:

    @SRSco: I agree with everything you said, aside from the “you’re a liberal, therefore you’re wrong” Jim Quinn b.s.

    I’m not really a consumer of Diebold products voting machines, my government is. I really wish this contest was redefined as “Least consumer friendly company” or something like that.

  22. BlackFlag55 says:

    Capitol One is a choice.

    Interaction with Diebold is not.

  23. @SRSco: Way to troll there.

    @sisedi: True, though it is pretty obvious he was trolling.

    @battra92: Damn, I had a response to that and forgot… See johnva’s.

    @johnva: Independent auditing. I mean true unsolicited independent auditing. Of course this will never happen but you get the idea.

  24. backbroken says:

    @Greg P: Jim Quinn making an appearancer on Consumerist! Wow.

    Can I change my vote for worst company to Jim Quinn?

  25. Charles Duffy says:

    @Papa Midnight: “True unsolicited independent auditing” wouldn’t even work in all cases. If the machines are tampered with to record something other than what was actually voted in a percentage of cases, how is going back and looking at those records (made, again, by the subverted machine) going to help?

    There are mechanisms for building electronic voting systems which aren’t easily subverted; see Prêt à Voter, or Punchscan; secure electronic voting has been a popular topic in cryptography for a long time (indeed, it’s covered in Applied Cryptography, which came out in 1996 and has since then been effectively required reading for anyone with an interest in the subject).

    There’s no excuse for building an unauditable, insecure electronic voting system in this day and age. I don’t buy the conspiracy theories, but I think that the careless disregard for security evidenced by the independent source audits Diebold has fought against are every bit as bad.

  26. highmodulus says:

    Came for the vote, and stayed for the immature name calling I knew would happen. Wasn’t disappointed either.

  27. johnva says:

    @Bladefist: You should be mad at Diebold even if your guy WON the election. Like I said, they have undermined faith in the fairness of our system of elections by producing and selling insecure voting machines. So they have reduced the perceived legitimacy of the Bush presidency, because people have a legitimate reason to doubt the results and call them into question. If the machines and methods used for voting were secure, there would be less of this doubt and questioning going on, which would be good for everyone.

  28. coren says:

    @BlackFlag55: Explain, then, how I’ve never once in 9 years of voting now, had to deal with them?

    Diebold doesn’t give bad customer service. Diebold is not the sort of company this site is about. Other than his political ideological attack, SRSco has a point. (well, except the RIAA is far different from Diebold, IMO). I don’t see how unproven allegations of election throwing trumps proven privacy invasions on the massive scale that Best Buy and Capitol One perpetrate.

  29. MFfan310 says:

    Diebold, because not only their voting machines stink, but their ATMs can crash and freeze, too: [coed.org]

    IIRC, aren’t Diebold voting machines based on MS Windows CE? That might be one reason why they’re so bad…

  30. tape says:

    @Greg P: well that’s not what the contest is defined as, now is it?

    Diebold’s two major products these days are ATMs and voting equipment. There’s conclusive evidence that they made the voting machines tamper-friendly, and while I’d like to think the ATMs are safer to use… well, let’s just say I’m a little pessimistic about that.

    Just because you, the end user, are not that company’s “consumer” doesn’t make them not a steaming pile of shit.

  31. Echodork says:

    Polls before the jump please.

  32. SRSco says:

    @Greg P: You’re paraphrasing what I said. I didn’t say “you’re a liberal therefore you’re wrong.” I said “you are all left leaning believers of conspiracy theories.” The troll part of my statement was “you are all”. What I meant to say was “many of you.”

    For the record I’m a left leaning NON believer of conspiracy theories.

    And I’m not into your “least consumer friendly company” idea at all. That’s where we end up voting on the RIAA, MPAA, Haliburton and Diebold. Look, we all know that most people who comment on blogs and message boards on the Internet find the aforementioned abhorrent, why can’t we pick on companies that consumers actually do business with on a regular basis (Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Uhaul, Cap One, etc.)

    @johnva: You word it a bit better than I do. I’m aware Diebold has made some shoddy machines. They did not, however, make them defected to the point to ensure Republicans win more elections. Give me a break.

    I’m not trolling…I’m just saying.

  33. Bladefist says:

    @johnva: I haven’t seen any evidence to say that the election was manipulated by even 1 vote by diebold.

    I’m sure its a serious matter, and the people at diebold would go to prison for a long time for voter fraud. They would also lose their contract.

  34. Lambasted says:

    @SRSco: you are all left leaning believers of conspiracy theories.

    My, what a generalization you’ve got there. You are here. That must mean you are also a left leaning believer of conspiracy theories too. Welcome, my fellow believer.

    You are just in time to chime in on the government cover-up of aliens landing in Area 51.

    What are your thoughts on the government claiming Pioneer found ice on Mars? Images were definitely photoshopped. I think it is all a big lie in an attempt to justify spending $100 billion on a manned mission to Mars.

    I know you will agree that the government puts chemicals in our drinking water that hypnotizes us to “Buy American” when what we really want is Japanese.

    We all know Exxon is really a secret republican government organization created to keep gas prices high so the lower classes never get a economic foothold to rise up.

    Oh how I could go on and on with my conspiracy theories but government spies are watching.

  35. JeffDrummer says:

    @johnva: Thanks, I did opt out a few weeks ago when I saw how much Capital cared what was in my wallet ;)

    @Bladefist: I have thought that too. I mean, given the fact that no political party has come forward to say that there was voter fraud, I would assume that it is minimal at best. Not acceptable – but when you think about the 500,000 dead voters in NY, I would imagine that the number of votes given by dead people and illegals pales to the errors on the Diebold machines.

  36. johnva says:

    @Bladefist: That’s not what I said. I said that the mere fact that Diebold’s voting machines are insecure reduces faith in the election. BTW, it IS fact that they are insecure, because independent experts have come to that conclusion…the mere fact that we haven’t seen evidence of them being used to steal an election does not mean they are secure. And you’re also missing the point that one of the whole problems with direct-recording electronic voting in the first place is that it doesn’t leave tangible evidence of fraud. So it’s entirely plausible that there has been undetected, and undetectable, election fraud via Diebold machines already.

  37. johnva says:

    @JeffDrummer: That’s a big assumption. The fact that no political party has come forward to say there was voter fraud does NOT mean that fraud was minimal at best. It may just mean that there is no concrete evidence of it, and they don’t want to make a claim they can’t prove. The Diebold machines are specifically designed in a way that makes it nearly impossible to obtain evidence of fraud, so the absence of evidence here is not evidence that fraud did not take place.

  38. Greasy Thumb Guzik says:

    All of Diebold’s ATM’s have always printed a paper receipt, yet none of their voting machines was designed to.
    Diebold’s boss said he was going to everything possible to make sure Bush & Republicans won the election.
    Diebold’s voting machines were built so that all of them used the same key to open them up, none of their ATM’s was built that way.
    Diebold’s software for the voting machines is garbage & easily hacked & altered to allow one candidate to get votes they weren’t voted for.

    Capitol One can only steal our money, Diebold steals our democracy & our country.

    Diebold should win this year as worst company.

  39. Trai_Dep says:

    It’s an election year, people. Let’s put our country above a couple annoying TV ads?

  40. ezacharyk says:

    I had to vote for Diebold. Not only do they screw over the elections in this country, they also make many of the crappy ATMs that everyone complains about.

    So they steal your votes and your money.

  41. Siegeman says:

    I’m a college kid. The dorm I lived in the past two years had generic machines to put funds in the washers/driers. The one I live in now uses a Diebold system. The generics were simple, clean and most importantly took a whole of 10seconds to operate. The Diabold machines not only fail to perform basic functions (such as adding additional dry cycles) but take almost 5 minutes to put a buck fifty into a machine form my student account.

    Why in God’s name would you trust a company that fails at LAUNDRY with our VOTES?!

  42. mantari says:
  43. Charred says:

    “What’s in YOUR wallet?”

    “Cash.”

  44. JustaConsumer says:

    We have Diebold to thank for W and the destruction of our country.

  45. Bladefist says:

    @JeffDrummer: Ya if history has taught us anything, it’s that democrats are the ones that commit voter fraud :)

  46. Bladefist says:

    @JustaConsumer: destruction? Where do you live? I’m doing better then ever.

  47. ARP says:

    @johnva: I think that’s bit tin foil hat. But, @Greasy Thumb Guzik: is headed in the right direction. I find it strange that Diebold can make such solid ATM’s and their voting machines are crap. To add to the list:

    They also refused to be subject to audit or to have their source code reviewed (even under NDA).

    Many of the problems they had with the voting machines occured in Democratic heavy areas.

    So when you add all these together, at the very least Diebold is fueling their own problems by not being forthright. It also raises a lot of questions about the integrity of our system. While there may not be fraud (I’m not so sure), people need to feel secure that their votes will count or causes problems like this.

  48. Puck says:

    Man I love the kool-aid drinking ignorance in trying to defend the Bush administration and trying to convince people that things are better now than before this disaster came to Washington. Of course there’s never any facts to back it, but it just warms my cockles to see people so stunningly blind to the truth, or in such hardcore denial.

  49. sisedi says:

    @JustaConsumer: Oh yeah, I forgot when the moment where all freedom was torn from this country and it became a 3rd world shit hole and we all decided to move to Morocco because anywhere is better than here amiright?

  50. Anonymously says:

    @SRSco:I agree with what you envision for the contest. I guess I just worded my description wrong. Sorry for generalizing on the anti-liberal sentiment.

  51. cyr3n says:

    Diebold. They help candidates steal elections and have been reticent to fix their software because the built-in flaws make them money! [www.blackboxvoting.org]

  52. JeffDrummer says:

    @Bladefist: I wouldn’t say that Dems are the only ones, but if it weren’t for voter fraud we might have gotten done with Nixon ten years sooner.

    I heard that in NY state that there are about 350000 dead Democrat voter, and about 125000 Republicans – but in all fairness, the vast majority of voters in NY are Democrats, so I don’t think that there is some grand conspiracy for Democrats to commit voter fraud.

    However, I only moved to the US three years ago, and in Canada voter fraud is treated more severely – and its not like this is a new thing there has been pretty bad voter fraud ever since the 1870′s, why don’t we give very harsh sentences to those who undermine democracy through fraud?

  53. BruinEric says:

    This consumer site is being degraded by the political banter that has exploded here. The Diebold story is not a “consumer” story if you ask me.

    Battles over election fraud pre-date Diebold and will post-date Diebold. Election fraud and vote-count reliability are serious matters and hardly in the same ballpark as actual consumer-unfriendly companies like Best Buy and many of the rest of these.

  54. backbroken says:

    @JeffDrummer: The answer to your question should be self-evident.

  55. Bladefist says:

    @JeffDrummer: Ya I was messing around, thats why I had the smiley face.

    I think we should water board people for committing voter fraud.

    (Note the lack of a smiley face)

  56. I have to wonder how many folks here would be so angry with Diebold if they perceived the voting irregularities to be favoring Democratic candidates? From the comments I’ve read, it looks like folks aren’t so much concerned about undermining the democratic process as are that this sort of thing gave us George Bush (it didn’t) and that somehow The Man and Diebold are collaborating to keep voters down.

    The inclusion of Diebold in this contest (and its likely victory) has nothing to do with consumer advocacy. It is purely ideological.

  57. HeartBurnKid says:

    @Bladefist: See, I don’t think John Kerry could have won or anything, but, as a people, we should demand accountability from our system. That includes our government, and that includes the people who make our voting machines. Right now, we don’t have that.

    Then again, I guess I really shouldn’t bother arguing with somebody who’s so incredibly biased for one of the parties that he actually uses that party’s logo as his avatar.

  58. HeartBurnKid says:

    @AtomicPlayboy: If the irregularities systematically favored Democrats like they systematically favored Republicans, you’re damn right I’d still be pissed.

    Why is this a “rah-rah cheerleader” game? Why should anybody be OK with this, even those whose “side” benefited? Why do the people who claim to love America most seem to have no problems at all destroying the things that it was founded on? WTF is wrong with the people of my once-great nation?

  59. Bladefist says:

    @HeartBurnKid: ooo Burn.

    If I was you, I would bother, because I’m pretty objective. My screen name is bladefist, from Warcraft, but that doesn’t mean I throw axes at people.

    If there was any evidence of Diebold rigging the election, I would be on your side in a heart beat. But there is not. I don’t just change my mind and agree with people who are conspiracy theorist. Come back with some facts and we’ll talk.

  60. Bladefist says:

    @HeartBurnKid: Also we have a 2-party system, that in most cases, hate each other. If there was any wrong doing going on, you’d hear about it. It would be on the front page on every journal, blog, newspaper, everything.

    That is something you can trust.

    The fact is we need to update our voting process and use technology. The difficult part is who does that? I’d rather Diebold then our Government. If you trust the Government more then well, anything, then I think I found your problem.

  61. Trai_Dep says:

    Wow, one day after the GOP-spawned Telecom Immunity thing and you’re back rah-rahing the Republicans.
    You really are a slave, aren’t you?

  62. Trai_Dep says:

    @HeartBurnKid: They really don’t get it. They think that since they’d accept any hook, crook or crime to get their party in power, that everyone else thinks that way. Everything’s about keeping score, none of it is about real patriotism. Weird, huh?

  63. ConsumptionJunkie says:

    I cross my fingers because I have never had an issue with Cap One.

  64. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    @Trai_Dep: Yes, I’m aware that it’s traditional on the Internet to cast your ideological opponents as ignorant (they don’t know the truth), incompetent (they don’t understand the truth), or evil (they are engaged in covering up the truth). Sorry, but those of us (and I am one of “us”) who think Diebold is engaging in bad actions need to come up with good evidence.

    @Bladefist: Look, you and I are mostly on the same side, right? Let me know what evidence you will accept and I’ll try to find it for you (if it’s reasonable).

  65. Bladefist says:

    @speedwell: Well lets be straight on the accusation.

    I’m hearing they caused Bush to be elected. Any evidence showing one vote that went to Bush that shouldn’t have, will do the trick.

  66. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    @Bladefist: Perfect. I’m off work in 5 minutes and I’ll see what dirt I can dig. :)

    Anyone else want to play “Diebold vote fixing” scavenger hunt? I’m looking for evidence stronger than “Diebold machines are fixable.” It won’t do much good to show any machines were defective, either, unless you can show evidence that the machines were defective in such a way as to throw votes to Bush, and that they were made that way on purpose by Diebold.

  67. Bladefist says:

    @speedwell: Alright. I like to think I’m a reasonable man.

  68. HeartBurnKid says:

    @Bladefist: Are you kidding? I trust the government even less than I trust Diebold.

    What would I trust? How about an open-source, or at least independently-audited, system?

  69. HeartBurnKid says:

    @speedwell: See, I don’t give a crap whether they did or not. The fact that there really is no way to tell if they did or not in the first place is enough to get my dander up.

  70. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    @Bladefist: OK. This is one of many writeups on the mysterious memory card issue that happened in Volusia County, Florida, and may well have thrown the election to Bush. [www.dissidentvoice.org]

    No, it’s not proof, but it is evidence. Combined with Diebold’s criminal incompetence as far as system security goes, and the pattern of its directors’ hefty contributions to the Republican party and its candidates, it’s pretty damning.

    I work in IT, and part of my job is to pay attention to system security issues and to keep users from using their system permissions to compromise security. Diebold designed and built the machines in question during a time when system security theory was very well developed and pretty much every IT worker would have been aware of how sloppy Diebold’s work was. It is inexcusable. It’s precisely equivalent to a contractor building a subdivision with locks keyed the same throughout the neighborhood, installing door and window latches so they could be opened from the outside even when they were in the locked position, constructing tunnels with trapdoors into every kitchen pantry, and bugging every master bedroom.

    The Republican party used to be far above this sort of thing. They used to believe that good, honest messages and good, honest voting would win the day. I’m sorry to say that hasn’t been true for a long time. I know you embrace the old, forgotten ideals of a party that has utterly repudiated its own platform. Frustrating, isn’t it.

  71. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    @AtomicPlayboy: I would certainly be as upset if the voting irregularities favored Democrats as much as they favored Republicans. I would even be upset if the voting irregularities were perfectly balanced in both directions. As any accountant would tell you, two mistakes on the books that happen to cancel each other out does not mean no mistakes were made.

  72. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    there I go, typing close italics for close bold again. Dammit, I’m sorry about that.

  73. @HeartBurnKid: You’re violently agreeing with me insomuch as we both decry partisanship on the issue. I’m just pointing out that said partisanship seems to be more pronounced on the Left, with regard to this issue. My contention is that many (most?) who demonize Diebold became aware of the company when it was related to an election outcome that they did not favor, and I question the capacity of this crowd to see voting irregularities as an affront to democracy, not to Democrats.

    I would love to see any people or organizations involved in any vote tampering deported, or at the very least stripped of their suffrage.

  74. @speedwell: I’m sure that both you and HeartBurnKid are honestly non-partisan about the issue, but when I see the following comments:

    “Diebold, for rigging elections for fascists. I can avoid using Capital One.”
    - so it it ok if they rig elections for people you don’t think are fascists?

    “And you, sir, are a right wing corporate apologist shill.”
    - how does questioning the intentions of anti-Diebold commenters make this guy a “right wing” shill?

    I get the impression that a.) the shady Diebold activity has been attached to the GOP (for which there is no evidence) and that b.) these folks would be a lot quieter if, say, this sort of thing came up as part of an Obama victory. I’m sure you don’t share these views, but I think you would agree that they exist, and that they will influence the WCIA outcome.

  75. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    Non-partisan? Gee, I don’t know. I voted Republican in the Texas primaries, and my fiance was a delegate to the Texas Republican Convention. For Ron Paul, of course, but still Republican. That’s why I mentioned to Bladefist that I thought he might be as frustrated as I am about the party’s complete abjuration of the sensible populist, capitalist, small-government, treating-citizens-like-adults platform they at least pretended to follow, too long ago.

    As far as the Diebold activity being attached to the GOP… in a political climate of plausible deniability, I think the bar of evidence is set a little bit too high. The principle of cui bono (“who profits”) is certainly key in reconstructing this circumstantial case. In researching the question for Bladefist, I came across additional information that showed that more recent voting fraud threw votes to Republican candidates for, specifically, state governorships and Senate seats, much more often than could be explained by chance. I have to admit I was shocked, and I was already pretty convinced.

    Do I agree that people would be much quieter if voting fraud was used to put Obama in power? Yes. Yes, I do very much agree, and it scares the sh!t out of me because I think it is not just plausible, but inevitable.

  76. HeartBurnKid says:

    @AtomicPlayboy: See, I get “b” from the quotes you mentioned. I’m not so sure about “a”, but then, I do have a rather distressing tendency to give people way too much rope to hang themselves sometimes.

    @speedwell: Are you kidding about that Obama part? People already raise enough alarms about the stuff he didn’t do (i.e. “OMG he’s a secret Muslim!”); imagine if they had something that he actually did. You’d never keep the Hannitys and O’Reillys of the world quiet. Some people would be quieter (which is sad enough in and of itself), but there’d be just as many people who’d be louder.

  77. HeartBurnKid says:

    Err… I get A, not B. I get a little sydlexic sometimes.

  78. Bladefist says:

    @speedwell: Ya, todays republicans aren’t conservative. That’s the problem.

    I read your stuff, and it didn’t really convince me of anything. It was a good read and inspired me to read a little more on my own.

    I read [www.sourcewatch.org]

    And I saw that their database backend was an MS Access database. Are you f-ing kidding me? That tells me it is 100% completely PLAUSIBLE to commit voter fraud.

    I’m still not convinced it actually happened, but I do now reconize how easy it could have been, and therefore, I’ll say it’s possible it could have happened. Will I say that Bush won because of voter fraud, or that voter fraud helped Bush by even 1 vote, no. I’m not there yet.

  79. Bladefist says:

    @speedwell: Also I know its really hard to find info on stuff that old, and the bloggers muck up the search results, but do you have any other sites that are more reputable? Not to say this one is lying. Just like to read some better sources.

  80. snclfe says:

    Diebold is the only company evil enough to steam-roll a company as evil as CapitalOne.
    I mean…..they circumvent democracy! If Diebold wasn’t so evil, fewer politicians who condone the evil of CapitalOne would get elected.

  81. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    @Bladefist: The site I gave you reprinted an article from a newspaper from, IIRC, 2003. It did take a while for this information to come to light. I’ll look, but you may also want to Google “Volusia vote fraud Gore 2000″ or a similar search string for more information.

  82. Bladefist says:

    @speedwell: ok

  83. johnva says:

    @Bladefist: Another tidbit about Diebold is that they had source code with some of their encryption keys hardcoded into it. That is absolutely inexcusable as far as key management goes. Not only does that mean that all kinds of people who shouldn’t have had access to that, did have access (including anyone who could obtain a copy of the binaries on their machines), it also means that encryption keys weren’t being regularly changed, as is the best practice.

    I’m glad to see you’ve come around a bit. I’m not asking you to believe they actually stole an election. I’m just saying that someone could have stolen one using those machines. And that could be anyone in any political party in the U.S.

  84. Bladefist says:

    @johnva: Ya it seems like they hired a bunch of entry level kids to do their programming.

    And its likely, IF there was any voter fraud, hell, it could have been done at the lowest level.

  85. @Bladefist: @johnva: Ya it seems like they hired a bunch of entry level kids to do their programming.

    I agree. It’s not that they’re bad people, or that they allowed an election outcome to be falsified. No, no, no it’s that they’re incompetent. They designed a crappy system to execute a fundamental democratic right.

    And do they say “Hey, this product sucks. But we can fix it and design an open system!”? No. They just press on to obscure the design through NDAs and lobbying lest anyone figure out how crappy it is.

    Incompetence is the worst. If Diebold wins, it should be as much a commentary on the government and our elected representatives for hiring them in the first place.

  86. Bladefist says:

    @Michael Belisle: I guess my question is, how come no one from our amazing government didn’t stop this nonsense.

  87. barty says:

    Because of the overwhelming number of conspiracy theorists, liberals and myrmidons that believe whatever the media wants them to believe on this site, I think I already know that Diebold is going to win this one.

  88. @barty: Exactly.

  89. @Bladefist: Good question. If we’re spending hundreds of millions (billions?) of taxpayer dollars on a contracts this size, why can’t “make a product that doesn’t suck” or at least “follow security best practices” be one of the requirements? Almost seems the only criteria are cost and nepotism.

  90. @Michael Belisle: Well, of course those were probably in the RFP (assuming there was one). But the RFP is like a wish list, because “fulfilling all requirements laid out in the RFP” is not one of the requirements.

  91. HeartBurnKid says:

    @barty: @AtomicPlayboy: Yes, because bladefist is such a liberal. Just look at his avatar.

    Again, it’s not necessarily “Diebold stole the election from Kerry!” It’s “Diebold could have, hell, may have screwed up the system, whether through accident or malice, and they’re covering up their mistakes instead of fixing them.”

  92. Cap'n Jack says:

    Diebold.