Privacy: What It's Like To Fly With No ID Under The TSA's New Regulations

David becomes our first reader to fly under the TSA’s new ID policy. Formerly, if you refused or were unable to show ID you could still fly — but were required to undergo secondary screening by the TSA. Now they’ve altered their position slightly– fliers who willingly refuse to show ID are now barred from flying. The new rule went into effect over the weekend, and David says that in order to board the plane after forgetting his driver’s license he had to answer questions about his political party affiliation and previous addresses.

The new regulation doesn’t apply to those passengers who claim to have forgotten their ID– so essentially you are barred from claiming that you have a constitutional right to refuse to show ID to get on a plane. Here’s how the TSA explains it:

Beginning Saturday, June 21, 2008 passengers that willfully refuse to provide identification at security checkpoint will be denied access to the secure area of airports. This change will apply exclusively to individuals that simply refuse to provide any identification or assist transportation security officers in ascertaining their identity.”

This new procedure will not affect passengers that may have misplaced, lost or otherwise do not have ID but are cooperative with officers. Cooperative passengers without ID may be subjected to additional screening protocols, including enhanced physical screening, enhanced carry-on and/or checked baggage screening, interviews with behavior detection or law enforcement officers and other measures.

It turns out that “and other measures” include questions about political party affiliation and other questionable invasions of privacy, according to David:

So you know how the new TSA regulations went into effect yesterday, where you can only fly without ID if you “cooperate” with the TSA? Well, it turns out you also have to take a test about your personal life. They call up a service to administer it, and the last question they asked was which political party am I registered under (I correctly answered “democrat” and they still let me on board).

Anyway the full story is that I had to go Florida for a funeral, and accidentally left my driver’s license in my apartment in Manhattan. I made it through LaGuardia on Thursday the 19th in about 3 minutes, but when I tried to fly back through Fort Lauderdale Airport yesterday, it took about 45.

When I first approached security, I told the initial guard screening all passengers for ID that I had none. Instead of immediately calling the supervisor over like at LaGuardia, he paused and asked if I was sure I didn’t have any ID on me, like a social security card or something. I said I only had a credit card, so he then radioed for the area supervisor. She arrived in just a few seconds. Her name was Brenda, and she very politely and apologetically informed me that things had changed, and that the TSA supervisor for the whole airport needed to handle this situation because of the new regulations.

Luckily I had arrived an hour early so had plenty of time. I chatted with Brenda while we waited for the main supervisor to arrive. I started to get a little nervous that I wouldn’t be allowed on board, and Brenda repeatedly assured me it wouldn’t be a problem — they just had a few additional steps to go through.

After about 15 minutes, the main supervisor, Laurie, arrived. Again, Laurie was exceedingly nice and professional, but seemed a little more concerned than Brenda. She asked if I was sure I didn’t have photo ID, like a credit card with my picture on it, or even a CostCo card. I wound up going through my wallet in front of her to show that I didn’t, and she pointed to various cards and receipts in it to ask if they were IDs. I wound up showing her everything to prove I was telling the truth. She repeatedly said they had no way of “verifying” that I was who I said I was, and that someone could have stolen my credit card and traveled under my name. I didn’t want to mention that they shouldn’t need to verify who I am, because I was afraid they could then say I wasn’t cooperating and deny travel on that ground. In fact, I even mentioned several times that I wanted to fully cooperate with them because I was aware that was a component of the new regulation, and they assured me that I was.

Finally satisfied that I didn’t have ID, Laurie took my boarding pass and went away. She came back a few minutes later having photocopied it, and also had an affidavit that she requested I sign. It asked for my name and address, and stated in small print at the bottom that I did not have to fill it out, but if I didn’t I couldn’t fly. It also said that if I choose to fill it out and then provided false info, I would be in violation of federal law.

After filling out the affidavit, Laurie called a service to verify my address. The service needed me to then correctly answer three questions about myself, which Laurie relayed to me. The first was my date of birth, the second was a previous address (which I only got right on my second try), and the third was “You are registered to vote. Which political party have you registered with?” I got all three right, and only then did Laurie clear me to go through security.

Of course, I still had to submit to secondary screening, including a full-body pat-down and total luggage search. Brenda and Laurie stayed with me to make sure the process went as quickly as possible, and were again incredibly helpful and nice. They kept explaining over and over how necessary it was to “verify” who I was, and how times have changed, and how these new regulations must have been as a result of someone trying to get away with something, because there’s always a reason for these thing but they don’t always know what those reasons are. They were so nice and considerate that I waited until the very end before I finally said that I do not agree with the new regulations, but that I was thankful that the two of them acted so professionally and considerately to me. Laurie actually seemed a little dejected when I said this, because I had been playing along the entire time out of fear that I would not appear cooperative otherwise.

But I made it onboard my flight, and am back in Manhattan. I have flown without ID in the past, a couple years ago, and it was no problem. I almost preferred it because I got to skip the line. This time around though, it was incredibly burdensome, and involved the full attention of two high-level local TSA employees for a considerable period of time. I kept wondering if Laurie and Brenda were so busy with me for so long, what if someone really bad was doing something in another terminal or area? So even though I cannot say enough good things about how these particular TSA employees handled it, I still feel the new regulation is entirely inappropriate and unnecessary. Why do you need to provide a home address to fly? And what if I refused to answer the question about my political party allegiances? Luckily I kept my cool and even befriended the screeners just so they couldn’t resort to the subjective lack-of-cooperation carve-out, but 45 minutes of standing at security not knowing if you’ll make your flight seems specifically designed to test people’s mettle and upset them. The TSA has turned flying without ID into an overly cumbersome and almost unmanageable chore.

We agree with CNet’s Chris Soghoian when he says that this new rule is just more security theater– at the cost of your privacy.

While TSA’s announcement stated that the goal of the change was to “increase safety,” this blogger disagrees. The change of rules seems to be a pretty obvious case of security theater. Real terrorists do not refuse to show ID. They claim to have lost their ID, or they use a fake.

TSA’s new rules only protect us from a non-existent breed of terrorists who are unable to lie.


Your papers please: TSA bans ID-less flight
[CNet]
(Photo: Kevin Dean )

Comments

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  1. Those questions sound like the ones I had to answer when I requested my credit reports online. If you can’t answer one or two, they give you alternate questions. I think they limit the wrong answers or “I forgots” to two or three, though.

    I agree, this is just more security theatre, now in Sensuround…

  2. AlexPDL says:

    “She asked if I was sure I didn’t have photo ID, like a credit card with my picture on it, or even a CostCo card. “

    Wow! That’s nice. I remember when they ONLY took “state or federal government issued IDs”… I worked for the Legislature and I had my employee photo ID. I had to explain to the TSA agent what the state legislature was.

    Sounds like they are doing a public information search on the person. Which is dumb since its well… public information. Our party affiliation and addresses is totally public. We can even find out WHEN and therefore how often a person voted, again all public.

    It does NOT seem like a privacy issue at all, its just dumb window dressing. It reminds me of the “Did you pack your bags?” question. “No I didn’t some weird guy who twitches did, he mumbled a lot.”

  3. Pylon83 says:

    I think the political party question is being taken out of context. I imagine the “screening service” utilizes a DMV database to ask questions that probably only the person would know, such as previous addresses. Most people register to vote at the DMV (or whatever incantation of it your state has), and they would likely have your noted party affiliation noted. While it’s a pretty personal question, it’s one that would be hard for an “impostor” to answer.

  4. simplegreen says:

    who needs civil liberties anyway?

  5. sir_pantsalot says:

    You dolt they already know which political party you are registered with. They are looking at that information and they are just trying to verify.

  6. ptkdude says:

    As a Georgia resident where we don’t register by political party, I would LOVE to go through this process just to give them shit on the last question.

  7. GreatMoose says:

    Sorry, but who travels without some form of ID? I understand the privacy angle, but I can’t imagine trying to travel (especially air travel) without ID.

  8. blong81 says:

    I wonder when I’m going to have to show ID to drive between cities. It’s just a matter of time…

  9. sir_pantsalot says:

    @AlexPDL: I agree with you. We could answer those 3 questions for some of our previous neighbors. If you talked to your neighbors and knew the birthday then you already know their previous address and would know or could guess their political party.

  10. lalaland13 says:

    In my state, there is no political party registration. Well, I think you can put something on the form, but it’s’ totally optional and doesn’t really mean that much when you go to vote, apparently.

    What about the RealID crap? When is that supposed to go into effect? I thought it already was, but a bunch of states, including mine, were fighting it.

  11. ARP says:

    Why on earth does it matter what poltical party you’re registered with? I wonder what they’d say if you said communist, or facist? Or even more “tame” parties like “libertarian” or (gasp) independent?

    This does nothing to improve security. In fact willfully refusing to provide ID doesn’t make you any more risky than any other passenger (esp. after they do secondary screening). It’s so funny that Bush Admin still thinks terrorists are as naive as they are, “I bet the terrorist could never get a hold of fake ID’s”

  12. weave says:

    My ID expired while I was in Florida last year and I was told by the outbound TSA agent it would not be accepted for my return trip. I had to get someone at home to fedex me my passport so i could avoid this kind of hassle. They made it sound like I couldn’t fly without it.

    Even with the increased screening it’s good to know if I get mugged while on holiday and don’t have my ID I can at least get home.

    Anyway, I agree. It’s all BS.

  13. ThinkerTDM says:

    Ah, America, I hardly knew you…
    So long. We probably won’t meet again.

  14. weave says:

    @sir_pantsalot: I would hope the three questions are changed each time.

  15. theRIAA says:

    um…

    “What is it is like…”

  16. kthxbai says:

    wat if your not registered to vote?

  17. sir_pantsalot says:

    When Ahkmed goes to the security line and he is asked for his ID and he provides 5 different passports from 5 different countries and they have 5 different names but all have his picture on them they will gladly let him move on.

    TSA (a complete crock since 12/19/2001)

  18. Gokuhouse says:

    Makes me feel good reading the line where this person says that while these two TSA employees were bothering with his ID another potentially dangerous person could have been getting through without a hitch.

  19. sir_pantsalot says:

    @etaripamai: Then Puff Daddy will come and kill you.

  20. It just amazes me that no one stopped along the way to making these rules and said -”hey, you know the terrorists could just lie. After all the 9/11 guys lied to get drivers licenses. Why are we doing this?”

  21. sir_pantsalot says:

    @weave: I don’t have a lot of confidence in the people I see at the checkpoints.

  22. kepler11 says:

    At first I was skeptical about this story, and it seemed like another TSA stupidity case — if someone refuses to provide ID versus someone who claims to not have ID, what is the difference? Why let one fly, and not the other?

    But the full story seems to be that it is because they have alternative ways of checking to see that you are who you are. And if you have simply forgotten your ID, they can check to see who you are by alternate means. But if you refuse any sort of identity check, or refuse to cooperate, even to verify that a person with your name and address, etc exists, then they will not fly you. That is not so unreasonable as I first thought. They just don’t want anyone who has no history or traceability at all to be flying.

    But the silly thing is that, as many people know, this whole thing ignores the fact that there’s a gaping loophole in the whole system — that you are in control of your boarding pass information and the physical piece of paper that they check against at the security checkpoint. As anyone with photoshop can do — you can pretty easily simply create a fake boarding pass for anyone, who can then get pass security with a real ID.

    If they want to address security in a real way (which costs money), they would need to come up with a system where the ID checkers have the *original* ticket information on a screen in front of them, not a piece of paper that anyone could have created.

    And as a parting shot to Consumerist — there is no Constitutional right to refuse to show ID to get on a plane.

  23. kepler11 says:

    to clear up some misconceptions — I think the question about political party was like a credit check question where they ask you various things to ascertain your identity. Not to ask about your views or anything…

  24. akyiba says:

    “Why do I need ID to get ID? Because if I had ID I wouldn’t need ID.” -Mos Def, The Questions

  25. MrEvil says:

    that party affiliation question won’t work on a Texan. There’s no party registration in Texas, the closest we get is a little stamp on our voter registration card that states what primary we voted in. This isn’t the Gov’t trying to track you down because you could be a dissident, this is merely you answering a question only you know the answer to.

  26. PixiePerson says:

    @GreatMoose: You don’t always have a choice – a friend was pick pocketed directly before flying home from Boston once. Not exactly his choice to fly without ID.

    He probably didn’t have time to get his ID and make his flight on the original leg. He chose to make the flight.

  27. MeOhMy says:

    Silver lining: The fact that the TSA agents behaved like human beings as opposed to comic book goons is at least an improvement.

  28. Hawk07 says:

    I don’t think the party affiliation question is really that off base.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Osama endorsed John Kerry in 2004.

  29. TropicalParadise says:

    Could someone please explain to me how the money in airports works? Does it go straight to the government like they own it, so they at least have some right to dictate highly inconvenient measures like the airports do. I get that the TSA is sort of government run but wouldn’t airports want it to be EASY to fly so that people would do it more?

    Why do they get to invade our personal space, rights, go through our things, SPY ON US NAKED, refuse to pay us when they lose our stuff, and do all these other things that if it was a smaller business, would not be allowed?

  30. @GreatMoose: I can’t imagine trying to travel (especially air travel) without ID.

    That’s just because they got it in your head that you need to be ready to explain, at all times, who you are, where your are, what you’re doing, and why you’re doing it.

    “For your protection,” we will watch your every move. Otherwise, the terrorists win.

  31. Shappie says:

    What is the big deal about showing ID? Just show it and be done. Who cares?! I don’t understand why people are making a big deal about your ‘right’ to not show an ID…right along the lines with showing a recipt. If you don’t have anything to hide, then show the damn thing and get on with your life.

  32. mad_hatter_md01 says:

    I think next time I fly on a plane, Im gonna forget my ID. This way I can have some fun with the TSA. Im gonna have them strip search me while making sexual advances on the searcher, make sure to pack large sex toys in my bag, and at the same time pretend I have multiple personality disorder, one being that of an arabic man.

  33. DashTheHand says:

    What in the hell is going on with airlines and the paranoid delusions that they think that someone without ID is the “real terror” in the airport/on the plane? If someone was planning on doing something, you think they’d call attention to themselves by NOT having an ID and making themselves stand out? For fucks sake TSA, grow a brain.

    I am honestly done with air travel. If this is what our country is reduced to because bad shit occasionally happens in this world, then I’m taking the train.

  34. Greeper says:

    All of you hate America. Why do you hate America? ;)

  35. bbbco says:

    “After filling out the affidavit, Laurie called a service to verify my address. The service needed me to then correctly answer three questions about myself, which Laurie relayed to me.”

    I wonder how much the service costs. TSA sure wouldn’t be paying the bill. Did they charge him right up front $99.95 to provide this service, or did they send him a bill?

  36. jamesdenver says:

    Hey couldn’t they verify a photo by going to myspace or Facebook or something? – Voila – person matches face.

  37. RagingBoehner says:

    @GreatMoose: It’s not smart. But I had to do it once because I got to Dulles airport at about 7:30 in the morning after a … ahem … late night in Adams Morgan only to find that I had taken out a credit card and my ID to go out the night before and left it in my pants pocket (I don’t always bring my whole wallet with me when I go out).

    So I was in Dulles with an hour until my flight and no ID. They were cooperative and let me on but that was before these new rules. Actually TSA was much better about it than the airline (flyI)

    Besides,in DC you can look up someone’s political affiliation on their dc.gov website, so it’s not like you’re giving away some super-secret piece of personal information. Not that being a registered Republican in DC does you a lot of good — you get a lot of blank primary ballots. Mickey Mouse FTW!

  38. LucyInTheSky says:

    this is really getting out of hand. we aren’t getting any safer here.

  39. CaptZ says:

    All this is, is to see how much more crap they can force us to do. Baby steps that lead to a facsist government.

    It’s all about control.

  40. TheDeadEye says:

    What about children? Do they need to show ID?

  41. tedyc03 says:

    @blong81: Visit DC some time.

    [www.wjla.com]

  42. Juggernaut says:

    All that build-up and nobody got fisted? C’mon!!

  43. CaptZ says:

    @MrEvil: Then they would rely on the last election and how you voted, which is public information that even I have access to. Don’t believe me? Give me your name and I can tell you every election, state or federal that you voted and whom you cast you vote.

    I imagine they have dozens of questions that can be easily answered and just go thru the list until they are satisfied with the number of correct answers.

  44. @ARP: Judging by our government’s publically-stated priorities, I believe the two ‘incorrect’ answers would be “Hamas” and “Green.”

  45. mizmoose says:

    Last summer, a TSA supervisor didn’t want to let me through the security lines because my driver’s license was over a year expired.

    The picture was accurate, the name and address were accurate. I had another ID (from work) with my name and picture on it. I had other random things (like, say, a costco card) with my picture on it. No go. He finally relented, after yelling at me over and over and over for a good 10 minutes about how this was “expired” and “not allowed” and blah blah blah.

    It’s not allowed for driving a car. It’s not expired for BEING ME.

  46. superchou says:

    I swear I am so sick of these retarded bureaucratic hoops we are made to jump thru under the guise of keeping us safe etc.. it is all just a load of crap. Hell, you can still sneak things thru security. if someone wants to get something thru they will… meanwhile we give up more and more of our personal freedoms and securities. I am amazed by how collectively we allow all of this to transpire.

    I can understand that you have to have an ID to get on a plane… I would not expect to be able to travel without one but it is just all the rest of the unnecessary crap that makes me sick.

  47. RagingBoehner says:

    @mizmoose: Try getting into a bar with it.

  48. kepler11 says:

    But to add to my comments above — it’s all fine to believe what you believe about privacy, government, etc. But when it comes to just needing to fly somewhere, why put up all this fuss and trouble for yourself to purposely not show ID? The TSA doesn’t care — just carry your ID, protest in other ways, and get on with your life.

  49. arthurat says:

    This alone will kill the airline industry

  50. @Michael Belisle:

    Welcome to the New World Order! Don’t ask questions. Move along.

  51. Javert says:

    Last week I had to have ID to board my flights both in Paris and in Iceland. I am curious as to what country does not require ID to fly? So far, everywhere I have been has required photo ID.

  52. howie_in_az says:

    @AlexPDL: “Did anyone put anything in your bag that you’re unaware of?

    How would I know?

  53. fuchikoma says:

    They’re allowed to ask which party you’re registered under?

    Wow. Here in Canada they hold an election, you go in, mark a ballot and drop it off, and no one in the world knows who you voted for. To do otherwise just seems to open the gates for abusing political opponents.

  54. @AlexPDL: The thing with the Costco card gives me an idea for a new Consumerist contest: Who can get on a plane with the stupidest ID?

    I could try my employee ID badge, I suppose. A public university is sort of a state-issued ID….

    @mizmoose: Their thinking there is probably that it’s easier to steal an expired ID than a valid one, so it’s more likely to be altered or used for impersonation. After all, who panics or reports it to the state when they lose an old license?

    (That’s why bars & liquor stores don’t want to take expired licenses — they’re worried about teenagers getting expired licenses from older siblings.)

    Still, it’s weak logic for airport security. I doubt the number of stolen expired licenses is so much greater than the number of stolen unexpired licenses that it warrants a different approach to security. As others have pointed out, real terrorists will spend the money for valid documents, or at least better forgeries.

    @CaptZ: My name is “Michael Bauser” (duh) and I live in Trenton, Michigan. Please tell me who I voted for in 2006 — senate, governor, congress, state attorney general, and mayor. Three out of five, at least.

    For bonus points: Wayne State Board of Governors, 1990. I would have voted for 2 of them that year.

  55. _as says:

    I think we would all be better served with some more common sense on behalf of the authorities, but also more reasonable reactions on our side.

    Yes, I agree that the question of party association is not the best. Yes, it is sensitive information, and if I were allowed to vote I surely wouldn’t disclose my party affiliation in such a situation. But also: What were people thinking when making this a test question to verify ID? Has anyone ever thought of the guessing factor involved here? The likelihood of someone who is really trying to beat the system getting this right by chance makes this question unsuitable anyways.

    However, I also think many of you show a sense of entitlement that makes these situations much worse. It kind of reminds me of the discussion of “Does a retailer have the right to ask for my ID when I pay with my credit card?”. Well, even if you are entitled to not show your ID when you shop (or travel without an ID for that matter), why would you? It’s for your own security, and that of others, and by insisting on your rights to buy/fly without ID in instances where you could easily produce one, you are just being annoying (yes, this criticism excludes those of you who really misplaced or lost an ID).

    Now, granted, I also think that we should be weary of misuse (e.g., the shop clerk recording your address when checking your ID; the TSA agent asking for your party or your religious affiliation) – but if we could all just be a little more reasonable – even if not required by law – we would make many of these processes so much less stressful.

  56. kthxbai says:

    @sir_pantsalot: No im being serious. Im 20 and i refuse to register to vote…. i guess ill just have to fly and find out.

  57. Tallanvor says:

    Am I the only one who wants to punch the people who keep up the “times have changed” line? I mean, honestly, if that isn’t the biggest bunch of crock, I don’t know what is.

  58. playdoh says:

    TSA out of Las Vegas stole about $100 worth of clothing from my bag.

  59. sir_pantsalot says:

    @playdoh: What happens in TSA stays in TSA and you can’t do anything about it.

  60. donkeyjote says:

    @fuchikoma: Registering with a party is voluntary. And even though it is just assumed you vote on party lines, who you voted for is still a secret.

  61. ZzFDKzZ says:

    @TheDeadEye:

    No only people over 18.

  62. jenl1625 says:

    After filling out the affidavit, Laurie called a service to verify my address. The service needed me to then correctly answer three questions about myself, which Laurie relayed to me.

    I *hate* those services. I’m lousy at former addresses, and managed to even mess up the “what was the first school you attended” question. (Had a weird elementary school history, and was having a bad day . . . .)

  63. smcallah says:

    @Michael Belisle: That’s just because they got it in your head that you need to be ready to explain, at all times, who you are, where your are, what you’re doing, and why you’re doing it.

    Let’s be real now, you show them your ID, all they do is take a glance at it, the TSA agent is not entering it into a database anywhere. You show it to a guy standing there before you take off your shoes, he glances, stamps his approval, and you go on to the metal detector and hand the boarding pass to the agent, and they don’t need your ID again.

    So unless the TSA agent taking your ID is memorizing it all and entering the information later, how does your statement apply here?

    And no, I don’t agree that you should have to have ID to prove who you are to anyone. But showing an ID to get through a security line certainly isn’t tracking anything about you.

    You already bought an airline ticket in your name, don’t you think THAT’S that way you’re being tracked?

  64. JackSaysNo says:

    Ok… What I don’t understand is why this is such a big deal. Showing ID for travel/anything is commonplace. Also this actually fills a hole that the AIRLINES created. You can get your boarding pass with a credit card and no ID.

    I understand that in general people hate the TSA and the basis on which it was created. Also with the fact that our politicians are taking away our civil liberties and effecively ignoring their own constituents requests not too, but this is actually a good idea.
    Let’s remove the whole “TSA is fighting terrorism” stance and take a look at the alternatives. A) Board a plane without ID and only boarding pass or B) Board a plane with a boarding pass and ID or C) board a plane with a boarding pass and actively deny showing your ID. Scenario A) has a huge loophole as I described earlier. Option B) sounds like standard operating procedure anywhere and protects both the customer and company (at least on a simple level) by guaranteeing the funds are coming from the present person. Option C) just sounds like some nutjob who wants to start and arguement or someone who may have actually stolen it. This simple security measure that is being implemented corrects all three cases. It’s weak but it better than the nothing they had before.

    BTW, stop focusing on the minutiae about the questions and focus on the goal at hand… unless they’re asking really personal questions like when you had your last period or penis size. THAT’s when you get the ACLU involved.

  65. jenl1625 says:

    @fuchikoma:

    They’re allowed to ask which party you’re registered under?

    I’m pretty sure that this “service” that verifies identity is a data-mining thing. They get as much data as they can from utility companies, government agency records, etc. I’m pretty sure that voter registration information is available from the various Secretaries of State . . . . So when they ask what party you’re registered to vote in, they’re comparing it to the data they got from the SoS.

    But it’s pretty dumb as an identity verification. If a relative stole my ID, for instance, she’d know my party affiliation. And even if it was a complete stranger, most people chose one of the big two, so there’s a good chance of guessing right.

  66. fadecomic says:

    I don’t quite understand what civil liberty or personal freedom is violated by requiring you to prove you are who you say you are. I’m fairly left wing, but I cannot figure that one out. Does it damage you in some way or interfere with your quality of life? It certainly doesn’t seem to be limiting your freedom. You still get to board the plane, which is what you were planning on doing in the first place. Certainly, you still a right to protect this information. You can go back out the airport door you came in without identifying yourself at all.

    For all you people thinking this won’t stop anybody, I think you’re overestimating your average real life criminal. Superintelligent criminals only exist in abundance in Hollywood.

  67. AgentTuttle says:

    1. Get us (and the kids) ready and used to the police state. (Google: Playmobil security checkpoint)
    2. Make it difficult if not impossible to fly so that when Bu*h declares martial law, we are penned in like sheep. (Have you noticed how many airlines have gone out of business lately?)
    3. Discourage those who have not flown to not bother.

  68. raskolnik says:

    It seems that the TSA’s priority when it comes to airport security is to find things that appear at first glance to be helpful but that don’t actually do anything. This is a perfect example: as the article says, what’s to stop someone from using a fake? If 19-year-old college students can get ahold of a fake driver’s license, how hard would it really be for someone with the resources of most large terrorist organizations?

    Further, even if they get a real ID from someone, how does that deter them from blowing up a plane? What repercussions will there be to someone who’s already committed suicide by destroying the plane they’re on?

    Actually, I suspect the real reason for this is much simpler. It’s to get people used to the idea that IDs are more-or-less required so eventually the TSA can start truly requiring them and deny people the ability to fly without them. There’ll be a lot less hoopla if it’s a more gradual shift.

  69. dfwguy says:

    @GreatMoose: Lots of folks travel without ID.. In my case someone stole my wallet.
    One thing I don’t understand about comments like yours. Have people completely forgotten that the Articles of Confederation, the predecesor to the Constitution, specifically said that travel between states would not be encumbered by your governemt? This isn’t about terrorism. It’s about the methodical destruction of your rights. Unfortunately for all of us, many of us never learned history. How long will it be before reading a book about a terrorism combined with taking a chemistry class in college makes you a person of interest?
    We have not experienced an attack on our soil since 9/11. I for one believe that’s due to the weakness of the enemy, not the strength of the state.

  70. thesabre says:

    A little factoid for everyone: all TSA regulations are 100% optional. You don’t have to do ANY of them. You don’t have to go through security or show ID or answer personal questions.

    All you have to do is rent a car and drive yourself to your destination. Or ride a horse. Or build a boat if you’re going overseas. Or a hot air balloon… or any mode of transportation in which it is just YOU or your family using. Don’t be a part of society if you don’t want to go through with the rules.

  71. blong81 says:

    @tedyc03: Yea, I’ve read about that. Bunch of bullshit. The thing is, DC isn’t a state. From what I’ve learned it seems like it makes it harder for the citizens there to put a stop to checkpoints than it would be in a state. If the fed’s put up a check point in a state they could secede and have nothing more to do with them. It would be harder for the people of DC.

    On a side note, I think I am going to hire my own protection agency to protect me from the government.

  72. donkeyjote says:

    @blong81: Scedeing is illegal.

  73. sir_pantsalot says:

    @AgentTuttle: I thought that would be a great toy for my children but there were a few problems
    1)it does not come with 200 figures to stand in a long line waiting to go thru the metal detector.
    2)There are not enough TSA figures to stand around and do nothing while only two of them run the machine.
    3)my children said it was not realistic because the plastic figure were entirely too smart to get a job as a TSA agent.

  74. blong81 says:

    @thesabre: The last time I checked airlines weren’t owned by the government. If the government made an airline then they could make all these regulations if they wanted to and people could choose and I gaurentee nobody would fly with them. Not to mention it would be the most costly, most accident prone, deadly airline ever.

    What makes you think this will stop with airlines? They have also randomly sent out TSA teams to bus stops. They take a small step forward towards removing all of our rights and we bitch and then we get over it. Then they do it again. And again. Didn’t the Nazi’s say that it was just for the people’s safety when they checked ID’s at checkpoints.

    Oh well, I guess they were just following orders…

  75. quirkyrachel says:

    Oooh, they actually took a page out of El Al’s book on security. El Al staff (and the staff of Ben Gurion, of course) are trained to do basic personality analysis. If you think it’s too much, just remember that Israel has enemies who regularly try to attack it, and they havne’t lost a plane in decades.
    Now if only they followed it all the time and we could quit with the taking off shoes thing…

  76. Gev says:

    @blong81: Nice Godwin.

  77. Maybe David hit on the right idea:

    “I kept wondering if Laurie and Brenda were so busy with me for so long, what if someone really bad was doing something in another terminal or area?”

    I wonder what would happen if *everyone* started “forgetting their ID”? Are you going somewhere you don’t need to show your ID? “Forget it” at home, and leave an extra hour earlier than normal, to make sure that even after the completely intrusive Q&A you still have time to make your flight.

    Part of the reason why, to this day, I usually “forget” that my belt-buckle is big enough to set off the magnetometer. The more time they waste with me is time they’re not capable of harassing someone who’s in a rush. It amuses the TSA agents when I recite the script about “how to stand, how to raise your arms palm-up, etc., etc.” while they give me the secondary screening.

    The more people who willingly subject themselves to this, the more time they waste and maybe they’ll eventually see the error of their ways….

  78. Poster99 says:

    Sounds like they are just using a verification service… often these services look at public records or credit reports… Another popular line of questions is related to vehicle loans listed on your credit report, where they give you the valid answer mixed in with others… eg.

    You show a vehicle loan on your credit report, Which of the following banks holds the loan?

    A. Bank of America
    B. Citibank
    C. HSBC

    What is the make of the vehicle?

    A. Honda
    B. Ford
    C. GM

  79. CaptZ says:

    @Michael Bauser: Poster who questioned that was from Texas…..which is one of the states where voter logs are public…….try again….

  80. @smcallah: Let’s be real now, you show them your ID, all they do is take a glance at it, the TSA agent is not entering it into a database anywhere…. You already bought an airline ticket in your name, don’t you think THAT’S that way you’re being tracked?

    You’re right. I never said they were doing anything with it. The virtual strip search by TSA isn’t about information gathering. It’s the visibility that’s important. It’s about reminding you who runs the show in these parts. It’s about reminding you that, yes, we really can see underneath your clothes. And you better not step out of line. (Also, once in a while they stop a gun or boxcutter from getting on an airplane. You know, when they can get around to it.)

    The real information gathering happens behind the scenes. They already know what airplane headed to, where you’re going, and who you are. Once you board your flight, they know you’re on it. This happens outside the airport, too: see for example, cameras that aggregate license plate movements.

    Why waste time having writing anything down when it’s all automatic?

  81. Ragman says:

    When a cop is suspicious of you, but doesn’t have anything solid to go on, they play 20 questions to see how you react. I think the TSA expect someone trying to b/s past them to get a little nervous and sweaty with all the attention and questions.

  82. blong81 says:

    @Derek Balling: That won’t work. They’ll just hire more employees until they have enough to search everyone. Don’t you know the government’s answer to everything is more money and government?

  83. fadecomic says:

    Yes, because everything always progresses to the next level. That’s the flaw in so many of the arguments here. There’s this implicit assumption that things are magically going to progress. Why should they? What’s the evidence? People keep saying “what makes you think it will stop here?” What makes you think it won’t?

    It doesn’t matter if they really check the ID. Just being able to pony one up is actually a pretty good first level deterrent. No, it doesn’t stop everyone, but you don’t need to pull an assault rifle to stop a jaywalker either. But stationing a fat guy in a uniform at the street corner does a pretty good job, even though he can’t stop a rampaging tank from blasting through the intersection. How does this hinder your travel between states? It hasn’t hindered mine. I reiterate–I’m left wing, but this one feels like a stretch. They’re asking for an ID, which most of us have to have to drive anyway.

  84. TheMelange says:

    I am generally against the increase in TSA regulations. I have been strongly opposed to their changes in policy since september 11, 2001, especially the absurd liquids ban. But this does not strike me as particularly unreasonable. I always thought it was odd how easy it was to get on a domestic flight. Is it really so crazy to say you SHOULD have to show an ID to board a plane with a ticket that says the same name? You need an ID to pick up tickets and enter a CONCERT. Should flights really have less security? Just bring your driver’s license!

  85. ibored says:

    I’m glad to know an affidavit is a solid barrier o prevent a terrorist attack…

    and in all seriousness, if I WAS using someone elses ticket I’ll bet 9 out of 10 times you can get political party affiliation right…hell if I didn’t know I could probably guess right 50% of the time or so.

    But the real issue with that question is appearances. No government organization should ever be asking that question. Its completely innappropriate, the situation is irrelevant.

  86. digitalgimpus says:

    I don’t vote, and never registered too. I don’t believe in mock-government.

    Can I still fly?

  87. @CaptZ: I’d say you’re confused, but it sounds more like you’re making shit up. Voter registration is public, but who you voted for and whether or not your voted is not public, even in Texas. It’s not like they’re marking the ballots and linking the names with a hidden barcode.

  88. @fadecomic: Perhaps you’ve never lived in a large city, but there are plenty of people who don’t even NEED drivers’ licenses to get around their daily lives.

    I have a co-worker who hasn’t driven since he got out of high school. So he should have to go get his “papers, please, comrade”, so he can travel within his own country?

  89. Asvetic says:

    @simplegreen: You still have them, you just temporarily wave them as soon as you enter the airport.

  90. Ragman says:

    @CaptZ: In Texas, who you voted for is not public data, only the party whose primary you voted in. That means you can switch parties every year there is a primary held.

    If you can tell which candidate a Texan voted for, please post the link. I’d be interested to see it.

  91. @Asvetic: You temporarily waive them when you get up in the morning, too.

  92. blong81 says:

    @fadecomic: Well, here’s a question, why should we have to posess an ID to drive? Last time I checked my magical driving powers didn’t go away when I didn’t have a specific laminated card on my person. My magical driving powers aren’t magically stored in said card either.

    I’m sad to say that you just haven’t seen that it’s the sytem that is the problem.

    It’s all part of the government’s desire to control. Just give it some time, and they’re going to inconvience you when you try to do something that you think is important.

    To have freedom you have to give freedom and respect your neighbors choices.

  93. Speak says:

    @jenl1625: I wonder too how reliable this “service” is. If they’re as reliable as the three credit bureaus, I’m pretty sure my identity report would be riddled with errors.

  94. cyclade says:

    @IamNotToddDavis: Agreed. Just what exactly does the ID requirement prove? How does it make it at all safer that the name on a boarding card matches the name on some “government-issued photo ID.” People seem to take this as some sort of cornerstone of security, but how on Earth does this make anything safer if you’re going through the metal detectors and x-ray machines?

  95. armishanks says:

    What’s more intrusive is that the TSA is now requiring airlines to provide your personal flight itinerary for all of your domestic flights. It gets it now from the airlines for international flights.

    [papersplease.org]

  96. orlo says:

    @blong81: @blong81:

    I believe in D.C. you need ID and a “legitimate purpose” to get past checkpoints in some neighborhoods.

  97. Lucky225 says:

    Is this too far yet slaves?? The TSA is relying on CONSUMER DATA from a company like choicepoint to verify who you are. So if someone steals your identity and you can’t get your ‘previous address’ correct b/c it’s that of one you don’t know by someone applying in credit cards in YOUR name, You don’t get to fly and YOU are obviously a terrorist.

  98. IrisMR says:

    This is becoming a travesty. These TSA people need to be sued by someone knowledgeable in rights. Because they sure as hell break your every rights.

  99. thesabre says:

    @TheMelange: “I am generally against the increase in TSA regulations. I have been strongly opposed to their changes in policy since september 11, 2001…”

    Considering that the TSA wasn’t created until November 2001, I wonder what policies of theirs you agreed with prior to 9/11…

  100. fuchikoma says:

    @donkeyjote:

    Thanks. I wasn’t quite sure how it worked, but I was pretty sure it wasn’t as bad as I thought given the article reading.

    It’s still prettty unthinkable that you’d be asked that here though. Up North we have laws that very strictly govern the sharing and even storage of personal info. If an airline asked about political affiliation, I think they’d be in the same sort of trouble you’d get in for asking someone what their sexual orientation was in a job interview. (um… ok, not sure about there, but it’s also very banned here.)

  101. @CaptZ: You want us to believe Texas keeps records of individual citizen’s votes? I call bullshit on that one. Show us some proof. The Texas Election Code might be a good place to start.

  102. Landru says:

    @thesabre: It won’t stop at airplanes; eventually it will include buses, trains, car rentals. Eventally crossing bridges or city limits.

    “Papers please” “State your party affiliation, please”

  103. bart430 says:

    @Landru:
    I love how everyone takes this out of context. They are asking you verifiable information.
    Key word here: VERIFIABLE Information.

    DMV records include political party info because you can register to vote when you get your drivers license.

    If you don’t want to tell, either bring your ID or don’t fly, simple.

    I personally think if you don’t have ID and are over 18, you don’t get on period.

  104. dirtypanda says:

    How many times do you need to forget your ID before you fly to be classified as an IDIOT??

    “I have flown without ID in the past, a couple years ago, and it was no problem. I almost preferred it because I got to skip the line. This time around though, it was incredibly burdensome, and involved the full attention of two high-level local TSA employees for a considerable period of time.”

  105. LUV2CattleCall says:

    F

  106. LUV2CattleCall says:

    U

  107. LUV2CattleCall says:

    C

  108. LUV2CattleCall says:

    K

  109. LUV2CattleCall says:

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  110. LUV2CattleCall says:

    S

  111. LUV2CattleCall says:

    A

  112. jchog says:

    Here’s an idea – Let’s forget the whole thing and go back to the way we boarded planes in the 70′s. This way no one will be inconvenienced. So what a few planes a blown up but at least you can travel without being inconvenienced. Unless you consider loosing your life an inconvenience.

    Kind of like russian roulette with an airplane. Look at the upside though- no lines, carry on what you want- sometimes you’ll get there and if you won’t it won’t matter to you, just your loved ones.

    Some of you folks are freakin imbeciles

  113. donkeyjote says:

    @bart430: What? No you can’t. THe DMV has nothing to do with voting. At all.

  114. Tijil says:

    @AlexPDL at 12:48 PM: Our party affiliation and addresses is totally public. We can even find out WHEN and therefore how often a person voted, again all public.

    @ Pylon83 at 12:48 PM: Most people register to vote at the DMV (or whatever incantation of it your state has), and they would likely have your noted party affiliation noted. While it’s a pretty personal question, it’s one that would be hard for an “impostor” to answer.

    BZZZZZZZZZ… Sorry, wrong answer. The state I live in believes in a secret vote, and party affiliation, if any, is NOT recorded by the state (Washington State).

    When registering to vote in this state one DOES NOT state what party one “belongs” to. I have voted since 1967, and have always voted for the PERSON whom I thought would do the best job, not for whatever party he or she might profess allegiance to.

    (BTW, we DO have “Motor Voter” laws here that allow easy registration via our Department of Licensing when getting, updating, or renewing a driver’s license.)

  115. dfwguy says:

    @fadecomic: “That’s the flaw in so many of the arguments here. There’s this implicit assumption that things are magically going to progress. Why should they? What’s the evidence? “

    The public was assured that income taxes would only affect the very wealthy and not rise above three percent. Your phone calls are now monitored by the NSA. Your government wants to know which books you read. It has progressed to the next level and it has been doing it for a long time.

    If the bad guys were out to change our society, they are succeeding. We are heading towards a police state. We need to wake up while we still can.

  116. smcallah says:

    @donkeyjote: I can register to vote when I renew my driver’s license at the DMV in my state.

  117. Scuba Steve says:

    Only an hour early? Lies!

    //Well, maybe in the best of situations, but still.. it’s unheard of.

  118. madog says:

    If you wish to board this flight, you must answer me these questions three!

  119. donkeyjote says:

    @smcallah: Which state is that? A police state? (No, srsly, which state?)

  120. Lucky225 says:

    @Michael Bauser:

    Uhh, actually Texas does keep voter registration records, as well as a record of what party you voted for in the primaries, and it’s all public — http://www.publicdata.com is one source to obtain that information

  121. Lucky225 says:

    @Tijil:

    X2,

    And Pylon83′s belief that an ‘impostor’ would have trouble answering such questions is complete bull$hit. Publicdata.com gives you access to Texas DL# & address history as well as voter registration and party affiliation, so that’s all the knowledge one would need to bypass the 3 “security” questions for someone who wants to impersonate you to get on a plane and doesn’t have ID. In fact, an Impostor most likely would just grab random info out of these databases to use to get on a plane without ID, Versus a legit. person who may or may not remember who they voted for in the last election (and believe me, some people vote just to vote and don’t look at who they voted for), or knowing a previous address that was entered fraudulently on your consumer credit report headers.

  122. @Lucky225: Uhh, actually Texas does keep voter registration records, as well as a record of what party you voted for in the primaries, and it’s all public — http://www.publicdata.com is one source to obtain that information

    We all agree on that (I agree too, even despite my post that erroneously says something to the contrary), and it varies from state to state.

    No state in America, however, keeps records of who you voted for, which is the absurd assertion that CaptZ made earlier.

  123. Dustin says:

    @Lucky225: Voter registration and what party’s primary you voted in is not the same as keeping a record of the votes of individual citizens.

  124. Lucky225 says:

    @Michael Belisle:

    Oh yea, agreed.

  125. JennQPublic says:

    Umm, this absolutely worked today. OP was who he said he was. But now that we know what the questions will be, the terrorists will just have to look up the proper answers in advance.

    It’s just not worth the hassle and frustration. Anymore, I will only travel to places I can drive to. Luckily, I live in California, and there are all kinds of cool places to drive to.

    /Like they would let any Arab guy on a plane without ID. Please!

  126. @Lucky225: Just to note…

    I put my info into http://www.publicdata.com and it came up with data which is simply not possible (I never lived in Texas for example) and my last name is unique. Only 3 people in the world have it.

  127. tgpt says:

    @Michael Bauser: I’ve used my public university employee ID on several occasions as a government issued ID.

    @blong81: the key difference is that not everybody is allowed to drive. I think the pilot should be required to show his ID before he gets on the plane, because I’d prefer to know that he is in fact a licensed pilot. The “right” to drive and put the lives of others at risk can be suspended (for example, if you’ve been caught driving drunk), while the right to travel should only be able to be suspended if you have been convicted of a crime severe enough to warrant imprisonment. I have no problem with them requiring people to show their ID before they walk out of prison.

  128. SecureLocation says:

    I amazed at how many little sheep here are busting the flyer for not “following the rules.” Like the fucking rules benefit anyone but TSA workers and dumbfuck politicians hoping to snow a dumbfuck population

  129. SecureLocation says:

    Love seeing all the comments busting this person for even thinking about breaking the rules. Git along little sheep. Like all this airport bullshit benefits anyone but the TSA stooges and dumbass politicians trying to con a dumbfuck population. And no way those evil doers have figured out there are easier ways to cause mayhem than to fly without an ID.

  130. blong81 says:

    @tgpt: I don’t think the government should be able to allow or disallow people to drive. Who says they are competent to decide? Why should they be the ones? I don’t agree with the government at all anyways but, they do decide who drives legally now, and look at all the crashes we have anyways.

  131. Lucky225 says:

    @Phillip M. Vector:

    Thanks for proving my point — Where do you think TSA gets *THEIR* information when they verify who you are without ID? :D

  132. BAF says:

    I still fail to see how TSA requiring ID violates any kind of civil rights. You are choosing to fly on a plane, the govt isn’t forcing you. Is your local gas station also violating your civil rights when they ask for ID if you’re trying to buy alcohol because you look under age?

  133. t325 says:

    @BAF: According to some morons who comment here, yes, the gas station would be violating their rights, because god forbid they take 20 seconds out of their day to show them their ID.

    The TSA is useless in many ways, but I have no problem with them checking IDs. It might actually help with security, and I get through security a hell of a lot quicker than any moron who refuses to show their ID because they feel like their civil liberties are being taken away and are trying to be a hero by standing up to the man. Guess what, you’re not a hero. Not my hero at least. You’re just an asshole that has to hold up an already slow-moving line.

  134. uricmu says:

    As much as I value individual rights and all the yada yada yada, the US is unique in the range of things one can do without an id card, INCLUDING VOTE.

    I have flown frequently in Europe and you simply don’t go on a plane without an identification. Its a basic security precaution. Can it be faked? Of course, but it’s one more obstacle and a way to identify suspicious behavior. Terrorists are not actually as smart and complicated as one they expect; they typically use glaring holes in a security system.

    Also, what sort of an idiot goes to a different part of the country without any form of ID or a driver’s license (I know this is a funeral, but he did this before). How do you check into a hotel, rent a car, enter a cab, buy liquor, or visit a hospital if you’re sick without any form of photo ID?

    And to the person who asked about the “did you pack yourself?” stuff: It’s obvious to people who fly regularly, but if you’re not used to traveling outside your tiny little hamlet, you might be willing to do a favour for that nice man in the terminal who asked you to bring something to his friend at your destination. Pigs don’t fly, but idiots do.

  135. daveistrad says:

    @uricmu:

    I’m not sure why you think I’m an idiot for going to Florida without ID. I was able to check into a hotel room with ID no problem b/c I had a credit card, I didn’t have to rent a car b/c my whole family was there and could get a ride, I’m not sure why you think entering a cab requires ID (that’s just weird), I don’t drink so buying liquor is not necessary, and I’ve actually gone to hospitals before without ID (broke a bone while skiing) so I’m not sure why you think that’s neccessary either. What’s really sad is that YOU think you NEED ID for all those things. Why don’t you carry ID with you next time you want to go outside and get your mail?

  136. @uricmu: the US is unique in the range of things one can do without an id card, INCLUDING VOTE.

    Woah, slow down there. It depends on the state. In Arizona, for example, not only do you need ID, but you also need to prove your citizenship.

    What sort of an idiot goes to a different part of the country without any form of ID or a driver’s license…?

    Someone who leaves his mistakenly leaves his ID at home. It’s not like he planned to test the system. I imagine checking into a hotel without ID is easier than getting through the security checkpoint without one.

    Some people are absent-minded. I can sympathize, having missed 3 flights and 1 train because I confused myself about what time they left (“I’m sorry, your flight left yesterday.” or “I’m sorry, your flight left this morning.” or “I’m sorry, your flight arrives at 9:30. It left at 7:30.”). The thousands of dollars these mistakes cost me has not improved my scheduling accuracy. Apparently, I just don’t care.

  137. planet2334 says:

    Maybe just take a crayon and draw an ID card. Maybe show them a chad from the last election. :)

  138. bound4er says:

    Ever notice how you need an ID to do almost anything now a days but if you ask for an ID from someone who is about to vote, it is “disinfranchisement, blah, blah, blah”.

  139. LionelEHutz says:

    This entire TSA BS is all about security theater.

    The whole country needs to get PTSD counseling and conquer fear already.

  140. not_kosher says:

    Good. ID isn’t an end all solution to airport security but it does help. I realize this blog has to lean as far left as possible but really?

  141. screaminscott says:

    I just finished reading a book called “Little Brother” by COry Doctorow. It’s a young adult book, so the writing is a bit stilted. But it gives a pretty chilling scenario about how quickly government can take control and monitor the public under the guise of Homeland Security.

    I’m not particularly concerned with these regulations right now. I AM concerned how quickly they can be implemented if some terrorist blows up something and government takes the opportunity to start tracking EVERYONE.

  142. vesuvian says:

    A friend of mine has a problem. He has a drivers’ license valid for his state of residence. He also has a state government ID (same but for driving privileges) issued from another state. Both are valid.

    How long does he have to ditch the one of the state he doesn’t live in before Real IDs merge all of the databases together? (Assuming they haven’t already.)

  143. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @bart430:

    I think that you should move to North Korea – you’d be much happier there. Demanding ID to travel within the US (or to leave the US) is fundamentally contradictory to what this country is supposed to be about. It is NONE OF THE GOVERNMENT’S BUSINESS where I fly. If they want that info, get a warrant.

  144. RagingBoehner says:

    @Tijil: Look up any DC resident’s voter registration:

    [www.dcboee.org]

  145. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @not_kosher:

    ID definitely does help – since no terrorists can ever get IDs, ID checks meant that nothing unusual happened on 9/11/01. Oh, wait, the 9/11 hijackers had completely valid IDs? Never mind.

  146. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @uricmu:

    “I have flown frequently in Europe and you simply don’t go on a plane without an identification.”

    Actually, no, you don’t. If you’re staying within Schengen, you don’t need ID to check in or board. They might ask for it on arrival, but not always. Flying TO and FROM Europe, sure (international travel), but not for domestic flights.

  147. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @BAF:

    You are choosing to leave your house. The gov’t isn’t forcing you. What’s wrong with them asking for ID when you walk out your front door.

    You are choosing to walk down the street. The gov’t isn’t forcing you. What’s wrong with them asking for ID when you walk down the street.

    You are choosing to walk down the street. The gov’t isn’t forcing you. What’s wrong with them asking for ID when you walk down the street.

    You are choosing to enter that Democratic party rally. The gov’t isn’t forcing you. What’s wrong with them asking for ID when you enter the rally.

    You are choosing to buy that newspaper. The gov’t isn’t forcing you. What’s wrong with them asking for ID when you purchase the newspaper?

  148. kdoyle55 says:

    Sure some of these things maybe inconveniences, but honestly is 15-20 minutes of going through security that big of a deal. If you dont want anyone to know where your identity or anything about you and are so worried about the government, identity theft, and all this other bullshit you have the RIGHT to live off the land in the middle of fucking nowhere where no one can bother you and you don’t have to worry about the big bad government trying to get you. You also have the RIGHT to take another form of transportation if this is such a big deal.

    Sure some of the policies are silly, but its the same with any other company/bureaucracy, I dont see anyone complaining that there hasn’t been another successful attack on/through the airlines in 7 years.

    I guess some people need to get a life.

  149. thesabre says:

    @JustThatGuy3: You also fail to mention how the process of getting a driver’s license has changed dramatically in the past 7 years. In most states, you now need original copies of proof of identity (birth certificate, naturalization certificates, etc.), proof of legal presence (birth certificate also satisfies this requirement), proof of residency (W-2, pay stub, utility bill), proof of name change (if any), and proof of Social Security Administration registration (SSN).

    Do you think the same 9/11 hijackers could satisfy those requirements today instead of filling out a form and getting their picture taken in 2001? The process of GETTING a license is harder, so the value of a license as legal identification increases.

  150. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @thesabre:

    Sure they could have met those requirements. The IDs were completely legit.

    That being said, if you believe that there’s this huge terrorist conspiracy out there, inches away from hijacking airliners across the US, but kept in check because they’re unable to get FAKE IDS that would be available to every college kid in the country, well, I guess some people will believe anything.

    TSA should be focused on keeping items that would allow a hijacker (a) destroy the aircraft or (b) breach the cockpit door and seize the aircraft, off the plane. Period.

  151. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @kdoyle55:

    Silly corporate policies? Sure, sometimes you just deal. Invasions of privacy by government agents? Pretty different.

  152. bart430 says:

    @JustThatGuy3: Why would I want to move to North Korea, seems you are acting like a little Kim Jong il when someone has a different opion than you have. You must be a joy to live with.

    I guess since I have an opinion and want to keep my family, self, and fellow Americans safe it is a bad thing.

    Here is some info to ponder:

    That searches made at the border, pursuant to the longstanding right of the sovereign to protect itself by stopping and examining persons and property crossing into this country, are reasonable simply by virtue of the fact that they occur at the border, should, by now, require no extended demonstration.”276 Authorized by the First Congress,277 the customs search in these circumstances requires no warrant, no probable cause, not even the showing of some degree of suspicion that accompanies even investigatory stops.278 Moreover, while prolonged detention of travelers beyond the routine customs search and inspection must be justified by the Terry standard of reasonable suspicion having a particularized and objective basi

  153. thesabre says:

    @JustThatGuy3: Do me a favor, go get a fake ID that any college kid can get and try to board a plane with it.

    Most fake IDs can fool a minimum wage store clerk who steals cigarettes after closing. What would happen if that same ID was swiped in a magnetic reader? What if that DL number was entered into a system for verification?

    The IDs that were given to them before measures were put into place were completely legit. What does that have to do with my question as to whether or not they would be able to obtain the SAME identification cards today?

  154. xnihilx says:

    We’ve all been in the “I have a funeral, I’m upset, I forgot” frame of mind (Espeically if it’s someone you were close to) I am sorry for his loss. Forgetting to get your ID is (while somewhat of a big oversight when flying nowadays) understandable.It happens. I don’t see what the big issue is with the run around. That’s the whole point. Frankly, it scares me that he got “through LaGuardia on Thursday the 19th in about 3 minutes.” After all the things that have happened and 9/11 it SHOULD take 45 minutes to verify your identity, they SHOULD go through all your luggage, pat you down etc etc. If they aren’t satisfied then you shouldn’t go on the plane, end of story. If I forgot my ID I would let them do pretty much anything they wanted to verify who I am. I would not want to be “that person who got on the plane after that big fiasco in the terminal” and make the other passengers uncomfortable. As far as political affiliation they are probably using public records databases and that would be one of the things that he would know.

  155. Grive says:

    @kdoyle55: And,have there been any big thwarted attempts at an attack?

    Or maybe there hasn’t been any attempt, thus the security angle is irrelevant?

  156. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @thesabre:

    1. They could get those IDs today. They were legally in the country, and legally entitled to driver’s licenses.

    2. TSA security checkers aren’t doing any of the reader actions you claim, so the point is irrelevant. The bouncer at a local college bar is a lot more qualified.

    3. Fundamentally, ID does not equal security. If TSA were doing their real job correctly, then it should be perfectly safe to have Osama himself sitting next to you on the plane, so long as he didn’t have the means to (a) destroy the plane, or (b) breach the cockpit door.

  157. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @bart430:

    Customs does not equal TSA, just FYI.

    You of course have a right to your opinion. I have the right to view your opinion as fundamentally un-American.

  158. JustThatGuy3 says:

    @kdoyle55:

    “I dont see anyone complaining that there hasn’t been another successful attack on/through the airlines in 7 years.”

    That’s because of my magic rock. Keeps bears away too.

  159. bart430 says:

    @JustThatGuy3:
    You sound like a first year law student that doesn’t know shit and hasn’t done anything but smoke dope and bad mouth the country.

    You seem to be so smart, I’m surprised Obama hasn’t called your for the VP slot yet.

    I have done more than my fair share to protect others, why don’t you step up to the plate instead of mouthing off from the bleachers?

  160. LibertyReign says:

    @Pylon83:

    “I think the political party question is being taken out of context. I imagine the “screening service” utilizes a DMV database to ask questions that probably only the person would know, such as previous addresses. Most people register to vote at the DMV (or whatever incantation of it your state has), and they would likely have your noted party affiliation noted. While it’s a pretty personal question, it’s one that would be hard for an “impostor” to answer. “

    If by hard you mean typing a name on the internet and pressing then I agree, otherwise I call ‘em like I see ‘em, and you sound like a sheep.

  161. LibertyReign says:

    @GreatMoose:

    “Sorry, but who travels without some form of ID? I understand the privacy angle, but I can’t imagine trying to travel (especially air travel) without ID.”

    I do not possess I.D. So.. ME.. I don’t TRY to travel without it, I just do..always without exception.(travel without I.D. EVERYWHERE)

  162. LibertyReign says:

    @kepler11:

    There is a constitutional right to keep your papers to yourself unless you are served with a warrant.

  163. LibertyReign says:

    @kepler11:

    I am so amazed by the filth that spews from your mouth it leaves me wondering if you are paid by homeland security to go around randomly posting on websites..

  164. LibertyReign says:

    @Javert:

    simple answer to your question:

    America

    at least it used to be..ya know..that whole land of the free thing.. we liked our freedoms…really we did..

  165. LibertyReign says:

    @_as:

    Wow.. 50 times and yet still no.. one more for the masses

    checking I.D. for credit card purchases does NOT protect the consumer..

  166. LibertyReign says:

    @thesabre:

    I would prefer not to live in fascism and that requires me to travel any way I see fit and refuse to give up my civil liberties..

    Thanks for the advice though but I’ll take a pass on “shut the fuck up and take it slave”

  167. @CaptZ: Bollocks.

    You’re full of crap. Not only do you not have that information, nobody has that information. When I go down to vote my ballot never has my name on it. (Neither does anyone else’s, that’s why it’s called a secret ballot). After connecting the little arrows with the pen to make my decision, I put it straight into the scanner. The moment my ballot goes into the machine, the data point of whom I voted for is lost forever. Later on a nefarious person couldn’t even use the stacking order of the ballots to reconstruct your vote since they don’t keep track of who fed theirs in first.

  168. takuhii says:

    Could the democrat in Seat 17d please move to the back of the plane

  169. Kanidia says:

    I think that people should just remember their IDs like international travel. Maybe mandatory Passports will do it. I don’t see how that is any kind of violation of privacy… keeping track of your traveling records not only protects the state, but protects you from fraud and other issues.

  170. LibertyReign says:

    @Dooga:

    LOL. I would LOVE to see you explain HOW.

  171. houston2882 says:

    ID everywhere. next they will want tattoos on arms in case someone forgets their ID. For reasons as this, I drive. even at $4.00 per gallon. no TSA gestapo on the highways

  172. @Michael Bauser: They keep records of what party you’re registered with.

    Here’s the thing about this… I don’t understand why people in America have this conception that they don’t need a form of ID to go places. I don’t mean air travel. I mean down to the corner store or to a bar. It’s patently absurd. And don’t even tell me that it violates civil rights. It’s how you are identified as who you say you are. Every country I’ve travelled in requires it of its citizens. Hell, in the UK everyone I knew travelled with their passport, because they didn’t have drivers licenses. If you get hit by a bus, chances are they ID you with your ID.

    I don’t understand why people think they don’t need it. But most importantly, you’re getting on a fucking airplane. Of course you need your identification to prove you are who you say you are.

    I loved the line from this guy, David, about how last time he did it he kinda liked it because he skipped the line. Are you kidding me? How fucking entitled are you? The right of free travel doesn’t mean you get to jaunt about without ID, it means you don’t have to register your passport with every single hotel, friends house, or stop over where you’re staying.