This guy was trying to make strawberry jam this morning, and he had to go buy 4 bags of sugar. The cashier threw away the original receipt but put the sugar in a couple of Wal-Mart shopping bags, so Ben left the store thinking everything was, you know, normal for a Saturday morning. Then he was stopped by a security guard, a store manager, and an off-duty police officer, all of whom went batshit crazy on Ben over his 4 bags of sugar and lack of receipt. Before it was over one of the shopping bags was ripped open, a bag of sugar lay broken open on the parking lot, the guard had threatened to kick Ben’s ass, and the police officer said, “you’d better not be lying to me.” Ben was marched back into the store so they could verify with his cashier that he wasn’t a sugar thief. Welcome to Wal-Mart, the police-state superstore where prices are low and civil rights don’t exist.
I was at the Germantown Wal*Mart to buy four bags of sugar because earlier in the day I had been at Butler’s Orchard picking 10 pounds of strawberries to turn into delicious jam. And to make delicious jam, you need lots of sugar. I grabbed four bags and headed to the checkout, where I also decided I could use some refreshment. I grabbed a Mountain Dew from the cooler, but the cashier had already processed my card for the four bags of sugar. He apologized and rang up another transaction for the Mt. Dew. At that point, he crumpled up my receipt for the four bags of sugar and handed me the receipt for the Mountain Dew. I headed for the exit, and was greeted by Wal*Mart security who wanted to check my receipt. I produced the receipt for the Mountain Dew and explained that the cashier had tossed the other receipt for the sugar. I would repeat this explanation 6 more times before this affair ended.
At this point, I attempted to leave, but was told I could not. I immediately asked if I was being detained. I was told “no” but that I wasn’t allowed to leave unless I walked back to the cashier to get a receipt. I said that I was “happy to let the security guard talk to the cashier, but that I was heading home with my sugar.” I attempted to leave again, and the door was blocked. I asked again if I was being detained, and was told “yes.” I asked on what grounds, and the security guard said “Because you stole.”
I informed the guard I had done no such thing, that the sugar was my property, and I was leaving with it. This time I pushed passed him and left the store, with him following me demanding I stop. As I left, he grabbed my bags, ripping them open. As he followed me he attempted to grab my bags, and grab the items inside of my bags. At one point, he told me that he should “kick my ass.” As I reached the end of sidewalk outside the store and headed towards my car in the parking lot, another employee came running and blocked my path. Soon afterwards a manager arrived. I again asked if I was being detained. I was informed by the manager that I was. I again asked for what reason, and was told by the original security guard that it was for stealing. I once again informed them that I hadn’t stolen anything and that I was leaving.
At this point, the manager informed me that Wal*Mart policy did not allow me to leave the store without showing a receipt. I said that I had paid for my merchandise, that it was in fact a store employee that had thrown away my receipt, and that I was not compelled to prove that items that I legally owned belonged to anyone but me. Again I inquired whether I was being detained, and was told my only options were to go back in the store to talk to the cashier or have the police called. I informed the manager that she was welcome to call the police, because I had done nothing wrong. At tht point, she radioed for someone to call the police. Once again, I started to walk to my car as the two security guards again attempted to block my path in the parking lot.
At this point, and off duty police officer came to the scene (he appeared to be heading into Wal*Mart to shop, not the one called by the manager), showed his badge, and asked for an explanation. Everyone was calmed by this, and tensions visibly eased on the faces of the Wal*Mart employees. I explained my side, and Wal*Mart employees explained their side. After the explanations, I asked the police officer if I was being detained, and he said yes. I asked on what grounds, and he said “suspicion of theft.” The officer told me I could give them “their merchandise back” and leave at that point or I could go inside and talk to the cashier. I indicated that since he was detaining me, I was willing to go back into the store and speak with the cashier, but that the merchandise belonged to me. At this point, one of the bags of sugar fell from my ripped bags and split open on the pavement. It was an accident, but I could tell no one believed me when I said so.
On the way into the store, the officer informed me that it was his day off, he had important things to do, and he didn’t want to take me to jail. But I had one last chance to give them their merchandise back and just leave, because if I wasn’t telling the truth, he would personally drive me to the station. I agreed wholeheartedly with him, and told him so. I’m fairly certain he thought I had actually stolen the sugar at this point. He then asked what I needed so much sugar for anyway. At the time, I was literally covered with strawberry juice. It had stained my shorts and shirt red, and I thought it was fairly believable that I was going to make strawberry jam. He still seemed skeptical, asking where I had been picking strawberries, and only seemed to believe me after I was able to name Butler’s Orchard. He then asked if I had ID, what my name was, and how old I was. Upon telling him this, he said “You better not be lying to me,” so perhaps I was too quick to think he didn’t assume I was guilty.
Of course, upon re-entering the store and speaking with the cashier, he informed everyone that I had paid for the sugar and the receipt was found in his trash can. His story differed slightly in that he told them he had given me the receipt but I had thrown it into his trash can. That was impossible based on where his trash can was from the checkout counter, but it didn’t matter. The original security guard was cordial, shook my hand, and apologized. The Wal*Mart manager and police officer lectured about how next time if I just cooperated and gave up my rights at the beginning, it would have been much easier on everyone. Trust me, Wal*Mart, there won’t be a next time.
If you defend Wal-Mart for this treatment of an average customer, you are a slave. There are other ways to prevent shoplifting. How about the security guard follows the suspected shoplifter to his car to take down his license plate while radioing someone in the store to confirm whether or not his story is legit? Besides that, Ben had four bags of sugar in Wal-Mart branded plastic bags—the likelihood that he was shoplifting them was low, and the value of the sugar to the store was virtually nonexistent compared to other merchandise that was and is probably being stolen from Wal-Marts all over America this weekend. No matter how belligerent a customer is in this situation, the guard, manager, and officer should remember that if the customer is innocent, he has a right to be belligerent and offended that he’s being harrassed to such a degree—especially over something as trivial as four bags of sugar.
Update: Ben wrote back to us, “To their credit, they did replace the bag of sugar.”
“Detained by Montgomery County Police For Buying Sugar” [Metblogs] (Thanks to everyone who sent this in!)
(Photo: kaibara87)
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When faced with a request for a receipt, I say “no thank you” with a smile and keep walking. Never had any problems.
I also don’t shop at Wal-Mart, Best Buy or any of the other regular receipt checking locations (for many reasons not just the receipt checking issue).
Odd, none of the WalMarts around here ask for a receipt… The Sam’s Club does though.
@t325: Get over YOURSELF! Besides it was a funny comment the only one thats made me laugh so far!
@allstarecho: AND YOU….if people are drama queens for protecting themselves its not your problem. YOU DON’T CARE and you’ve made that clear. So let Wally World check your receipt. While you are in distracting them at the door I can walk out with my purchases and get on with my life.
TedAtBSYTYCD: Wal-Mart does have a right to protect its inventory, but in the situation described, these four bags of sugar had been purchased and paid for by the customer. Therefore it was not Wal-Mart’s inventory any longer, it was the personal property of the customer.
Wal-Mart employees had no right to detain the customer, put their hands on him or require him to produce a receipt to prove he paid for it. Most states — including Maryland where this incident occurred — have merchant statutes which require the merchant to meet several criteria before approaching and detaining a customer for shoplifting.
As has been enumerated in previous posts by others, the merchant must see the shoplifter approach the merchandise, see the shoplifter select the merchandise, see the shoplifter conceal or carry away or convert the merchandise. Plus the merchant must maintain continuous observation the shoplifter and see the shoplifter fail to pay for the merchandise. When those criteria have been met, then the merchant can approach the shoplifter outside of the store.
Merely refusing to show a receipt to a bag checker does not meet the standard of probable cause on the part of the merchant. Therefore, they were wrong in detaining, threatening, harassing, touching, and grabbing the bags of this customer. They were wrong in summoning the police, because they didn’t have probable cause of shoplifting.
The police officer was also wrong in detaining this shopper. He should have known the relevant laws concerning probable cause.
The customer was correct in repeatedly asking if he was being detained. Even if he acted in an unreasonable manner as others have suggested (drama queen), it doesn’t negate or diminish his rights.
A company like Wal-Mart doesn’t get to ignore the state merchant statutes just because they have inventory to protect, or because they’re a big corporation, or because they have their own policies and procedures. Wal-Mart handled this incident disgracefully, and I hope this customer pursues every legal remedy available to him in driving home that message.
@P41: Agreed
@cametall: Why should he have too? He owns it. The cashier threw it away, not him. It was also in walmart bags.
@ConsumptionJunkie: I thought so too, 4 bags of sugar? what is that $4? @cosby: You rock!
i’m not surprised this happened. walmart is awful.
@newfenoix:Need more cops out there like you.
@danthemank: What the hell have you been smoking? I’m going to take a wild stab and say your not a lawyer. Their perogative? Did you just make that up?
@t325: Yes, they don’t. Unless they saw you in the act, followed you throughout the store, then watched you leave.
Hey, how do we know he actually paid for the STRAWBERRIES…?
Someone said:”You can only use deadly force to defend yourself, or others, from the use of deadly force, aggravated kidnapping, murder, rape, or robbery. “
Nope, not in Texas – you have the right to protect your property as well, with deadly force. If someone steals your wallet and runs away, you may shoot him in the back (excuse me – “stop” him). That’s why I love living in Texas – noone has the right to steal your property. Apparently a thief has the right to steal your goods in other states and there is nothing you can do but call the police and file a report. Ridiculous. Every once in a while we will get a thief from out of state here in Texas who does not know our laws. Surprise! Bang!!! I’ll take my wallet back please.
Leave Britt^H^H^H^H^H Walmart alone! Walmart is such a nice company for hiring all these disabled people. Look, they hire the thinking impaired and logically challenged and make them receipt checkers!
Walmart figures that job is so easy, even a Neanderthal could do it.
“Ugg want’s receipt! Show Ugg receipt!”
(For those thinking impaired people reading this post, that was called sarcasm)
PS. For the people who are thinking impaired or logically challenged, does that qualify them for disabled plates?
@AcidReign: Hahaha, the employees at the Wal Mart on Lakeshore Parkway in Birmingham, Alabama can barely stand to stock the shelves or scan your items, much less care to check your receipt. I call that store the Ghetto Mart.
@TedAtBSYTYCD:
Yes, absolutely they have the right to protect their inventory. The means to do so are readily available, and include cameras, observant employees, security guards and so forth. However, once you pay for any item, it is no longer part of their inventory, it is a part of your inventory. And just like the store, you have a right to protect your inventory too. All of this is clearly spelled out in the law.
However, the incident the OP wrote about starts at defamation of character, proceeds to assault, then unarmed battery, then unarmed robbery and unlawful detention. In ascending order, those are a civil tort, a misdemeanor, a gross misdemeanor, another gross misdemeanor, and then finally a felony. Merchant’s Privilege grants a qualified immunity from prosecution for these crimes, but only if the store can meet certain legal criteria, which range from 4 criteria to 7 depending on the exact area. The store met zero. Just because it happens on private property, does not entitle the store to waive your rights for you. If being on private property did so, police would be unable to arrest you in your home…but as everyone knows, that’s not the case.
@quagmire0:
Why is it drama to not tolerate libel or slander? Why is it drama to resist when a violent crime is committed against your person?
Accusing someone falsely of being a thief is not permissible. Someone so defamed can sue and will win, because it can cause very real financial and social harm. A receipt checker indirectly accuses everyone they see of being a thief, since they are asking those people to prove they are not stealing. While not a crime per se, it is a civil tort. Big companies with deep pockets that do this sort of thing is why lawyering is so lucrative an occupation.
Someone blocking your path or threatening you, either physically (a clenched raised fist) or verbally (“I will kick your ass”) is committing the crime of assault. It’s a fairly minor crime as these things go, ‘merely’ a misdemeanor, more often punished with a warning, a fine or community service than jail time. But it is still a crime, and it’s not dramatic at all to not submit to it.
Someone touching you without your consent, particularly after committing assault is battery, which is a crime. It happens all the time accidentally, in crowds. But with hostile intent, it becomes a misdemeanor. Like assault, this does not commonly result in jail time. Actually causing injury with your touch, even pain without an actual injury, is a gross misdemeanor, and often does involve jail time, as well as hefty fines. If someone commits a violent crime against you, you have the right to defend yourself with an equivalent level of force. It’s not the least bit dramatic to defend yourself when battered. The OP showed a great deal of restraint in not engaging in physical self defense, and attempting to keep the altercation verbal, despite the actions of the Wal-mart employees. But make no mistake, you intentionally touch another citizen at your peril.
Physically grabbing and/or destroying someone else’s property in their immediate presence is unarmed robbery, which is a gross misdemeanor. Like battery that causes injury, this is most definitely a crime that involves jail time if convicted. If even the most innocuous of weapons is present, even if not used (such as a keychain kubotan or a security guard billy club) then it escalates to armed robbery which is a felony. It is not even remotely pointless drama to resist when someone commits a violent felony against you. The person who does not resist such an attack is probably deeply and urgently in need of a psychiatrist, since non-resistance is not exactly a healthy response to robbery, bot in the psychological sense and in the very real physical one. You are absolutely entitled to defend yourself against a violent felony. If badly outnumbered or massively outweighed in force (such as a large man attacking a small woman) then deadly force is justified.
Then we have the felony of unlawful detention. Of the lot, this one carries the nastiest criminal penalties, as it’s not all that large a step below kidnapping. Such detention can come about in a number of ways; Simply locking a door so you can’t get out counts. Physically piling on you and tying you up (or sitting on you) is also detention. Legally, when faced with violent unlawful detention, particularly when outnumbered, deadly force can easily be justified. Ideally, you’d draw your weapon and warn them off rather than simply quick-drawing like Clint Eastwood and blazing away (which would be difficult to justify, without at least an attempt to de-escalate the altercation), but if one of those store employees got into a fight with someone while committing a felony against that person and was maimed or even killed…it would not be the victim who goes to prison. Resisting such unlawful detention is not drama. Such detention is unauthorized, illegal force with deadly threat, and you engage in it at great peril. If you are the aggressor in committing a violent felony, and manage to kill your victim, a claim of self-defense (“He fought back, we were afraid he’d kill us!”) is not going to save you.
And finally, across a VERY thin line from unlawful detention lies kidnapping. Kidnapping is a federal capital crime. Where is the line drawn? It’s hard to say, but a good test would be whether the store calls the police immediately after detaining you. If they toss you in a locked room and let you sit for a few hours, that’s not merely detention anymore. Literally ANY level of force or action used to resist a kidnapper is legally justified, provided it is only employed against the kidnapper(s); Threatening or harming an innocent bystander remains illegal. Set a fire to distract guards while you escape? Go for it. Destroy a wall? Sure. Kill everyone in a store uniform who tries to stop you on your way out? Iffy, but very likely to be ok too. And if you survive your attempt at kidnapping someone, you get to talk to the FBI afterwards. They don’t like kidnappers AT ALL
Let’s see: “I’m gonna kick your ass” and grabbing your bags sounds like a potential assault charge to me. Heck, maybe even an attempted petty theft. He was trying to take your property.
Walmart goes after shoplifters very aggressively no matter what the amount. One of my relatives was legitimately caught by them and after the no-contest plea and withheld adjudication they filed a civil claim for damages plus legal costs totaling about $150. The original offense was drinking a bottle out of a multi-pack container, and then putting the pack back on the shelf.
@newfenoix: Actually, not only do I live in Texas, but I also cited Texas law and I will be taking the Texas bar exam at the end of July.
@Everyone who had comments about defending myself…
While shooting the “security guard” may in fact be the wrong thing to do, I said I would shock the shit out of him with my stun gun, which IS perfectly legal here, when being threatened, which very much did happen. As for shooting the “unarmed security guard”… First of all, he was trying to detain someone, when he had absolutely no right to do that. That is kidnapping, I think the actual crime is called something else, but it amounts to the same thing, and is a threat to my life, as well as a crime that you can defend yourself from. He threatened physical violence, as well as tried to take the OP’s property from him…
“As I left, he grabbed my bags, ripping them open. As he followed me he attempted to grab my bags, and grab the items inside of my bags. At one point, he told me that he should “kick my ass.” As I reached the end of sidewalk outside the store and headed towards my car in the parking lot, another employee came running and blocked my path.”
All three of those things are covered in Texas law, and all three are allowed to be defended from. While yes, it is taught in CCW courses to try not to escalate things, it seems to me that the security guard and all the other people that were surrounding and threatening the OP in the parking lot were escalating it fairly well, and to tell the truth, that would have scared the crap out of me, a bunch of people following me, grabbing at me, saying they were going to hurt me, and not letting me go. I don’t have a license to carry, nor do I care for one, but if he had pulled out a gun and defended himself from what could very well have been perceived as life threatening, I’m pretty sure ANY decent lawyer could have pointed out all the facts that I just pointed out and the guy would have been fine.
By the way everyone, don’t try this in your state, I’m speaking of Texas, I don’t know about elsewhere, but here in Texas, when threatened with physical violence, someone trying to take your property, and someone try trying to stop you from leaving (not a police officer), you are allowed to defend yourself. Don’t let ANYONE tell you you can’t defend yourself!!!
It was Maryland. As Germans are one of the largest ethnic groups to immigrate to this country there are a great many so named towns through out the country in areas where they settled. Here is a link to the orchard mentioned in the story.
[www.butlersorchard.com]
I beleive the guy mad two mistakes. The first and biggest was shopping at Wal-mart. You give them books and give them books, but all they do is eat the covers. The other error has also already been mentioned. He should have insisted on filing charges against those who violated his rights. Wal-mart was ready and willing to use the authorities to uphold (and even expand) their rights, but consumers are reluctant to do so. They are even flamed on this site for saying they should have.
It’s too bad stores like Meijer in Michigan have become such jerks, what with long lines at regular lanes, only one manned express lane and their silly self serve checkout lanes, which only fools use. Too bad, because I have found Walmart to be much faster to check out, tho the little old lady at the door will sometimes ask to see your receipt if something is not bagged. My wife always grabs the receipt when I pay because she knows I will not stop to prove I am not a criminal. I have never had anyone try to stop me, either. But, all in all, I would never shop Walmart if Meijer got back on track again with good customer service.
I am SO tired of Walmart stories. I will no longer shop there. If I am at a family members house and I suspect that some of their goods came from Walmart, I will make it a policy to ask.. And refuse to eat anything that came from there.
Walmart violates civil rights, they use Medicade as their health plan. But US assholes keep purchasing there. Because through our three teeth we are just amazed at the price choppers. What happened to quality. I just got rid of an RCA TV that I bought in 1976.(25″) Why, because its basically no good in a few months.
Just so tired of us screwing ourselves. The only reason Walmart is still headquartered in US is because no one else will accept them. But why shouldn’t they just keep on, we are the ones shopping there.
I love the term SHEEPLE. You keep going going. Stand up for what makes this country weak.
You are beginning to see the culture divide now that will one day destroy this country. People who know they have rights, but not absolute rights to do whatever they please, and people who exploit the rights to do as they please.
When the war begins; I hope the second group is silenced permanently.
He never should have shown his receipt.
I’ll say it again: He never should have shown his receipt. Had he instead politely declined, I bet they would’ve let him go without challenge. As I posted before, I walked out with a PS3. I was verbally challenged, and insulted, but not detained or arrested or assaulted.
When the receipt didn’t match the merchandise, the security guard grew suspicious. And you can’t blame him. Much of the theft at Wal*Mart involves the cooperation of an employee.
I once had a student who was arrested when she was working at Wal*Mart for stealing. If she was ringing up a friend, the priciest items wouldn’t get scanned. They’d just go in the bag, gratis. Not a bright girl, and not an honest one, but I do believe her when she told me that there were plenty of cashiers doing the same thing.
This, by the way, is probably why the greeter/loss prevention associate stops people even though he or she can see the checkout lanes. And it’s probably why it doesn’t matter whether it’s in a Wal*Mart bag.
So to all y’all who argue we should all consent to be searched and detained when it suits the Wal*Mart corporation, may I politely point out that had the sugar man defended his rights from the beginning, none of this would have happened.
And finally, we all know that if Wal*Mart employees are devious thieves — where, say, Target employees apparently aren’t — there’s a totally obvious solution that doesn’t include forced searches and detentions of innocent shoppers.
Call the police and file a report. First, the off duty guy should be in a lot of trouble for playing police officer while not on the clock. And the people assaulting you while leaving and detaining you did break the law. It is so disturbing how the police are siding with stores over these receipt incidents. The police are supposed to know that showing a receipt is not necessary and that not showing a receipt is not evidence or probable cause of theft. This trend of police officers not knowing the law is disturbing.
@karmaghost: @karmaghost: “making sure you have that stupid piece of paper makes things a lot easier for everyone.” Hey Ghost, why not drink the KoolAid while you’re at it? If we just do what we’re told and forget that we have rights, it’ll be a lot easier. Bullshit. If we all stand up for ourselves, maybe there will be a 4th Amendment left next week.
I hate to defend wal-mart. When you go into any business not just wal-mart the constitution does not apply. However, they still have to follow laws. What I would of done, is asked them to print a duplicate receipt out. If they didn’t know how, I would of asked for a manager right then and there. My wal-mart store does not check for receipts. However, they know me as a regular.
If I am going to spend my money there, I don’t need to PROVE I didn’t steal something. Now, if I have a TV set between my knees that is a cause of suspicion. Is what someone ought to do is go there with another person. Have that person stand beyond the register area, and then you go and buy 1 item, checkout and get a receipt. Hand the bag to the other person, then you go back and buy another 1 item. Do that like 25 times and get a receipt each time. Then leave and when they ask for receipts, hand them the stack of 25 and let the guy spend 20 minutes going thru all this paid merchandise. It would at least be amusing.
I recently went to Wal-Mart to buy a Printer. (I did try Target first but their selection was hoooorrrible)
After purchasing my items I was leaving and had the printer box over my shoulder in my right arm (unbagged), a bag of ink and other stuff in my left arm and the checker asks for my receipt. I didn’t wanna put my stuff down and dig through my pockets so I politely said “No Thank You.” and walked out.
The dumbfounded look on the kids face was *priceless*! I don’t think anyone had ever said no to him before. I had the biggest grin on my face as I walked to my car. To his credit he didn’t call after me or anything. Thank you Consumerist for letting me know what my rights are!
Wow.. 230+ comments and I dont recall one mention of Costco! Seems we’re learning.
if the sum total of wal-mart (or any other store’s) theft deterrent is asking for a receipt then it’s easy to shoplift.
Make an investment first by buying something like a TV, pay $ and get a receipt. Take the tv out the front door and show your receipt.
Put the receipt in your pocket and go back in the store when the person at the door changes-or minimally change your appearance with a different hat. Take another tv, show your receipt and sell this one. Or, return it.
How hard can this be????
A couple of well-placed lawsuits would end these WalMart facist tactics. unlawful detention, defmation (accusing of stealing), threats, etc. That’s the only way it will ever stop. Oh, and no going there.
Where is Tim McVeigh buying fertilizer when we really need him? (Oh that’s right, he would get right on out the door without notice). (And for the morons reading this, no I don’t like or praise him or what he did, nor advocating it – I am using SATIRE – look it up.)
You know it really is OBSCENE that the fricking bazillionaires running this company not only make 90% of their merchandise and profit with CHILDREN SLAVES in other countries, they then have to produce receipt NAZIS threatening the lives of paying customers and practically ignoring real thieves who are too smart for their hick redneck asses. Next not having receipts for purchases, no matter how good the reason as in this case, will become a felony. Just watch.
My kudos in advance to organized “I’m leaving without my receipt” parties. Do it often and frequently enough that communities start billing Wal-Mart for overly-used local police resources. Maybe some of the LA rioters can join in and smash up their stores (hopefully without hurting anybody.)
But those of us who refuse to support CHILD SLAVERY and the destruction of the American small town job manufacturing base in this country by shopping there never have to shop there and get harassed…
CharlieInSeattle at 09:06 PM on 06/14/08 Reply *
@MountainCop: You sound like a total jerk also.
and newfenoix at 09:06 PM on 06/14/08 Reply
Hey, when I typed ‘this guy sounds like a total jerk’ I mean the COP and the other Wal-Mart parties involved – NOT the poor guy with the sugar.
The Wal-Mart people (and I use the term people loosely here) would have been charged with whatever I could think of – false reporting (felony here), stalking-harassment (another felony), unlawful arrest, unlawful detainment, and quite possibly kidnapping.
Maybe the charges wouldn’t get past the DA, but it would send Wally World a clue.
Apology accepted.
I stopped shopping at KMart since they check receipts at the door. I bought one thing at BrandsMartUSA. When they asked to see my receipt at the door, I said “No thanks”. They then started SCREAMING at me but I kept walking out to my car. I wasn’t detained, but I think that it is extremely bad business practice to verbally abuse paying customers.
The problem is that most of these large corporate chain stores don’t care at all about customers, civil rights, or the law anymore. So there aren’t many places to shop without being harassed or abused.
Regarding the question of the off-duty officer asking for ID, my understanding is that an officer may act if he sees a crime in progress such as a bank robbery or assault.
Why doesn’t someone come up with a procedure pdf, for each state, for dealing with stores that do this so that we can all act in uniformity within the law when this happens.
In this case I think it would have been best if he had returned to the store when he was originally detained. As he was doing so he should call the police and when he was released ask for charges to be filled to false imprisonment.
@RetailGuy83: Sorry to take so long to respond. You made a comment about how people who read the consumerist should have a pre-disposition toward the OP. And you suggested that people who don’t share that pre-disposition should go read some other website.
So we should not be sheeple, we should just follow along with whatever you say?
(sorry if the south park reference flew under the bridge)
@VikingP77: sorry, that last post was pointed at you.
@RetailGuy83: No I suggested YOU go read some other website. Good job responding to yourself as well…..You have NO idea of what is going on right now do you?
Maybe it’s finally time to cancel my WalMart credit card …. I never see anything good about their service.
@cametall:
Am I the only one not having an ounce of sympathy for the customer?
Yes. Yes you are.
How would one steal 4 bags of sugar? Hide them under their shirt? Down their pants maybe?
One of these days some jack ass at walmart is going to get shot or maced for this.
@dequeued: “So what if he didn’t actually steal anything, those security guards didn’t know that!”
I’m not sure if this was sarcasm on your part?
But your above statement would be your answer. They didn’t know if he had stolen the sugar. They did not see him steal it, they did not have him on tape stealing the sugar. They assumed that because he did not have the receipt and they did not confirm his story, that he stole the sugar.
Think of it this way… Every time you walk out of a Walmart, you are guilty of stealing until you can prove your innocent. How does that feel?
@Mudpuddle: If you were David Caruso, this is where the Who would scream.
Google Maps shows that there’s a Butler’s Orchard in Germantown, Maryland. So I’d be willing to bet we’re talking about Maryland.
And since it is MD, I can’t really be surprised that the local Wal-Mart expects people to accept police-state behavior.
@BronzeHammer: Can anybody weigh in on the legality of the off-duty officer asking for ID and performing police duties while not on the clock?
I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it’s pretty simple. A police officer can ASK for anything he wants. Unless you are being lawfully detained, you are under no obligation to show him anything. Hell, if you’re not being detained, you’re under no obligation to say anything – you are free to turn and walk away without saying a word.
If you are being detained, the rules are different from State to State. Some states have laws that require you to identify yourself if asked. Some don’t. However, even in those cases where you are required to identify yourself (during a lawful detention), you are under no obligation to produce any papers of any kind.
@arcticJKL: Why doesn’t someone come up with a procedure pdf, for each state, for dealing with stores that do this so that we can all act in uniformity within the law when this happen
It’s not comprehensive, but this is useful guide.
Take a trip to the Super Wal-mart in Dalton, GA.. Since it is a sanctuary city, they all turn a blind eye.
TinyBug – thanks for the info.
I was actually thinking along the lines with something that
for each state:
Lets you know requirements for the store detaining you
Lets you know what false imprisonment, illegal detention is
What to do when they tell you you are being detained (walk away, go with them, go with them with a statement, wait for police to arrive)
and any other pertinent information
I love this part! “To their credit, they did replace the bag of sugar.” They have no credit anymore….Ben, didn’t you realize that when they helped you break the bag open in the first place?
I’m just waiting for the case where a Wal-Mart guard kills someone over 3 bucks in merchandise.
@ RumorsDaily
Excellent Simpsons reference!
@glorpy: We have to step back and ask: “Who created the bad situation in the first place?” It’s not his fault for making the situation worse, he didn’t create the situation, Wal-Mart did.
At the checkout, after paying, I put the cash register receipt in my mouth, slobber on it, pick up my purchases in both hands, and head for the exit.
When I get to the checker by the exit, surprisingly, they always wave me past.