Paul is being cheated by Advantage Rent-A-Car in one of the most transparent, odious scams we’ve seen a rental car company try to pull. After a thief damaged his rental on a recent trip, Advantage says because the car was in the shop for 49 hours, he owes them 22 days worth of rent. “I asked how they got that number and they said they use a 4 hour work day, which is laughable! Even with that it would only be 12 days. Even if you are generous and give them 2 weekends it only gets to 16!”
In February I rented a car from Advantage Rent-a-Car in Denver to take on a ski vacation in Aspen. I was a bit skeptical of Advantage, but they were so much less expensive than Hertz or Avis, etc… I figured I would give them a try.
Things started off pretty well. When I arrived there was a long line but they had free hot dogs while we waited, which was a nice touch! The car was clean, the type we ordered, had an engine, etc. Long story short: I was pleased with Advantage and remember thinking “I will definitely rent from them again.” UNTIL…
On one of the last nights of our trip our rental car was hit by a stolen vehicle that had been taken on a joy ride and abandoned in the front yard across the street from where we were staying. The damage was relatively minor (we would still be able to drive back to Denver), and I called Visa and my insurance company. I also got a copy of the police report.
When we returned the car in Dever I filled out the accident report gave them the claim number from Visa. I was pleasantly surprised by the great service I received from Visa in all of this. Thought they would push back, but they didn’t! Visa told me all was well, as did Advantage Rent-a-car. (My insurance doesn’t cover me because I only have a liability policy).
In early May I received a letter from Subrogation Management Team. I’ve learned that this is a third party administrator that handles claims for rental car companies (except Hertz and Avis which handle it internally). The letter said that Visa would be paying for the full damages (~$4500) as well as ~$350 for the “loss-of-use.” In the same letter they said that I would owe an additional $3000! They wanted another ~$500 for loss-of-use and ~$2500 for “deminition of value.” I called Visa to discuss and they explained that they don’t pay deminition of value. I checked and they state that very clearly in their terms and conditions, so fair enough. When I asked why they weren’t paying the full loss-of-use they said that what Advantage was asking for was unreasonable.
Here’s why: The car was in the shop for 49 hours. Visa calculates a 7 hour work day, so 7 days, times ~$50 a day for my rental equaling $350. Advantage says it’s 22 days!!! I asked how they got that number and they said they use a 4 hour work day, which is laughable! Even with that it would only be 12 days. Even if you are generous and give them 2 weekends it only gets to 16!
I called the executive offices and eventually was able to speak with someone named Skip Thompson. He’s not the CEO, but a Director of operations or something. Pretty senior guy. He had seen my file (I had his assistant pull it for him a few days earlier) and said that while I might not like it, the charges were reasonable. I was SHOCKED! I asked him: “if you were billed for 49 hours of labor, how many days would you estimate the car was in the shop.” He tried to dodge the question, but eventually answered “well, 2 or 4 depending on how you calculate the work day.” I told him I was being asked to pay for 22 days and he was speechless. He concluded by saying he would look into it and follow up with me. Unfortunately I was told a few days later that he had instructed SMT to continue to pursue it!
It’s not a surprise that the math they use to calculate deminition of value is pretty sketchy too! $2600 in lost value on a $4600 repair is almost unheard of in the industry (I called and asked my insurance company).
It’s pretty clear that Advantage is trying to profit off of my accident. Funny ’cause I thought a car rental company was supposed to make money renting cars! I’m disgusted with them.
I’m not trying to get out of paying what I owe, and have told them I’m willing to pay a reasonable amount, but they refuse to bring the numbers down! Needless to say, I won’t be renting from them again! Just thought your readers might want to know: Stay away from Advantage Rent-a-Car!
When even your Director of Operations is taken aback by a 22-day claim for 49 hours of shop time, you know you’re running a pretty ballsy scam. Advantage, are you really going to try to screw this customer over for $3,000? Is it worth the bad publicity?
(Photo: Getty)
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Wouldn’t the fact that it had been a rental diminish the value in and of itself to the point it wouldn’t be possible for anything short of a salvage title to take away that much more value?
@TechnoDestructo: Actually, rental cars can be a good used buy. They have low mileage and they’re well-maintained, often by dealer mechanics. Contrast this with a lease return, where the owner probably won’t have maintained it well because he knows it won’t be his problem for long.
That’s quite an endoresment. “Better than the worst truck rental company in existance.”
Ten years of auto insurance adjusting here. Four hours per shop day is pretty much an industry standard for estimating loss of use, so 12-13 days for a 49 hour estimate is reasonable. But, did Advantage really suffer any loss of use? Ask them to prove to you that they would have been able to rent this vehicle every day while it was out of service. This would require them to show that every vehicle they had was rented and they turned customers away due to this vehicle not being available. They won’t be willing to prove this, because fleet size and utilization rates are closely guarded.
As for diminished value, unless they have sold the car, they can not prove any diminished value claim. By their nature, rental vehicles are worth less than other used vehicles on the market. If there was no structural damage to the car and all the repairs were completed to industry standards, the car could potentially be worth more than it was before the repairs. Until the car is sold, and the sale price is compared to other rental cars of the same age, make, model and condition in the same market, diminished value is a guess. Don’t pay it.
Wow, I sure am never renting from them. I got rid of my car back in March (I ride a bicycle now) and haven’t looked back on owning a car, but sometimes you need to rent one. Looks likes those times will not be with Advantage.
Just wanted to thank whoever told me about the consumerist forums, I’m moving that post over there. Sorry to everyone for butting in!
I wonder if your state attorney general would be interested in hearing about such creative math.
@Orv:
The tip of the iceberg:
Seriously, every link you follow just gets you 10 more.
Might want to rethink your position on used rentals.
@TechnoDestructo: Holy crap! People are so careless with other’s property.. We were thinking about a car until a dealer at another stealership told us it was probably a rental after hearing the spec’s – 2 years old, 50,000km – we decided not to get it.
@TinyBug: WTF is your star? You deserve one, you evil chocolate fudge oozing genius you.
Don’t pay them a dime. Seriously. There is nothing wrong with telling them to jump off a cliff. What are they going to do? Sue you? Do you think any judge would agree with them that this is reasonable?
Remember, YOU are in control of your finances. YOU hold the power here, not them. YOU can tell THEM to go fuck themselves and there’s precious little they can do about it. When they threaten to sue you, tell them to go right ahead. They’ll scream and bitch and moan and threaten but 9 times out of 10, their bark has no bite. These people won’t sue you because they damn well know they’re running a scam here and they’ll lose in a court of law.
Fuck ‘em. Let ‘em whine. Write “Fuck off” on the bill and mail it back to them.
“I’m not trying to get out of paying what I owe” – I’d refuse to pay anything at this point. If you’re going to try to scam me, screw you. You’re not getting a dime even if I do legitimately owe it. Stop trying to rip me off and agree to accept an amount that I fairly owe and I’ll pay you. Otherwise, you can jump in a lake on the entire bill.
@jimconsumer: agreed. let them take it to a judge. the op will have no problems.
@jimconsumer:
You’re new here, right? I think they forgot to tell you about Credit Reports before you signed up
A few things.
49hours / 4 = 12.25, you always round up which leaves us with 13.
If the vehicle was brought to the shop late in the week I can easily see how they came to 22 days. The sorta good news? proving loss of use and diminished value and loss of us is on them to prove. First, they need to wait until they attempt to sell that vehicle and can prove that they could’ve gotten more for the vehicle if it wasn’t for that accident. For loss of use they would have to prove that they had no more vehicles to rent and they suffered a loss by this specific vehicle being out of service as a result of the accident.
With that said, you didn’t sign a wavier with them. You did not carry any collision or uninsured motorist insurance so legally you’re at least liable for the damage to the vehicle – which was covered by Visa via your card members agreement.
Thus? You shouldnt owe them a dime.* Just because a company files subrogation against you it DOES NOT mean they have a legal right to collect.
*All this may vary by state law. I’m not liable for any incorrect info but I’m pretty sure I’m right. You should check your local laws for that state and confirm what I said, if right send them a certified letter stating why you will not be paying them (cite case law if need be). So if they ever bring you to arbitration you can prove you gave them written notice of why you would refuse to pay.
They had to wait for the parts to arrive from Japan and then for the paint to dry. Face it, they have a case. Last year I rented from Thrifty and paid for Access America Trip Insurance, which is a lot cheaper. I got in trouble a couple of times on a 3,000 mile trip. Before returning the car I took it to an independent repair shop (as recommended by Access America) and got an estimate of $2000. Thrifty only charged me about $700 and Access America reimbursed me every cent without hassles (of course I supplied proper documentation of the damage).
The number of hours charged rarely equates to the actual hours accrued working on the car. 1. Estimators include a margin of error 2. A good body technician usually does the job in less time than charged by virtue of his skill.
This is why they have flat rates for mechanical work (a published universal finite number of hours for each specific job; for example changing spark plugs in a 2007 Ford Explorer V6). This rewards the higher skilled tech; he can finish the job in less time than charged and thus accrue more book rate hours per work week.
As BaronVonCrogs touched on, loss of use is easily refuted by simply asking them for documentation to what percentage of cars they had on rent (or shopped) during the time this one was in the shop. If it’s not 100% (it won’t be), then how could they really expect to charge you for loss of use?
“our rental car was hit by a stolen vehicle that had been taken on a joy ride and abandoned in the front yard across the street from where we were staying”
Paul is not liable. Either the owner of the alleged stolen car is liable or the thief is liable.
@mariospants: That’s exactly why I recommend that my clients get the Loss Damage Waiver – the car gets damaged in some way, all they have to do is turn in the car and keys, and walk away.
@trixrabbit, @jimconsumer: They probably won’t take it to the judge, they’ll just report it as a defaulted debt to the credit reporting agencies and set the bill collectors on him.
If any Advantage RAC execs are reading this, I was planning to spend
about $200+ on a vacation rental from Advantage, but if this is not
publicly resolved, I’m taking my business elsewhere.
@edrebber:
Well, he would’ve been if he didn’t use a credit card to cover him. Im sure he signed on the rental agreement he would be responsible for any and all damages. Visa will most likely try to recover the monies they lost paying the claim on his behalf by going after the car thief though with their own subrogation.
Stolen vehicles are tough, I haven’t had to deal with a case like that yet to really know that the standard process for them are.
Hey Skip Thompson:
Let’s see… Consumerist has about 2 million estimated readers per month. Using Advantage Rent-A-Car math, that’s like 60 billion, 10 times the population of the Earth.
Skip, I think you’re in trouble, no matter whose math you use.