Round 39: Sallie Mae vs eBay/Paypal
This is Round 39 in our Worst Company in America contest, Sallie Mae vs eBay/Paypal!
Here's what readers said in previous rounds about why they hate these two companies...
"Sallie Mae has a program with my university where they let you divide your tuition for a semester up into monthly payments. But they charge you a $14 service charge for any payment made with a credit card! The only free way to pay is to have it automatically taken from a bank account... and we all know how reliable that is. Needless to say, I don't use this payment plan anymore."
"I recently had to change my home phone number due to harassment by SallieMae and the collection agencies they sold a debt to.
Someone has a similar name to mine (only the middle name is different), and they have been bugging me for 6 months. Once I finally got SallieMax to stop calling, they sold the debt to someone, and now THEY won't stop calling.
Problem is, the new collector does not show up on Caller ID (shows up as Name Unavailable 000-000-0000) and they refuse to tell me which company they work for. "
"they have ruined the lives of many of my friends. They use scummy debt collectors, and are more than willing to garnish paychecks that are already too small to live on."
"Was SallyMae also the one that paid bounties to schools that steered loans their way?"
"
I pay my student loans on time but I still have a horrible time dealing with Sallie Mae for consolidations and other regular issues.
They outsource their customer service overseas. Financial aid is a complicated business that doesn't need to be further complicated by adding cultural barriers. I have no problem with accents, but I have a problem when the person on the other end doesn't understand the concept of "half time grad student in thesis hours."
They also cheated me out of my grace period, refused to tell me why and instead, just threw some economic hardship deferment forms at me to get me to stop asking.
Also, their marketing is insane. I was receiving consolidation offers even after I called to find out I couldn't consolidate until after I graduated!
Now that I'm in repayment I get bombarded by emails about their special programs and services. It's difficult to sift through the crap to figure out what is important.
They don't have to worry about customer service because once they've got us we can't go anywhere else and the government subsidizes them. "
"Way back when I was going to grad school, I decided to take the minimum amount of credits (all credit requirements already met) while working on my dissertation. Sallie Mae (or one of its progenitors) promptly started requiring me to repay my student loan. I called and asked how I could get it postponed. Their rep told me I had to become at least a half-time student. So I added a few more credits (at several hundred dollars a credit). The notices for repayment continued to arrive. I called again and was told being a half-time student didn't entitle me to receive a postponement. I told them I had been told otherwise by one of their reps. They said tough, they couldn't be held responsible for misinformation by their reps. Ended up my paying some $500 (a nice chunk some 20 years ago for a grad student) more than I should have. A really great organization. We're not responsible for any information we might give you."
"
Sallie Mae is terrible. My wife has student loans through them and while she was still in school, she was constantly bombarded by credit card offers, "deals" on MP3 players and TV's, car ads and freaking LIFE INSURANCE offers.
Now that my wife is out of school, I have begun repaying the loans. The latest thing Sallie Mae emails us constantly about is this thing called UPromise. Basically it supposedly helps you save to pay off your loans by automatically putting aside the change on debit card purchases (so if you spend $2.48, it would put $0.52 in your UPromise account). For me, totally unnecessary, but it would seem on face that this is a genuine program. That is until you really check it out and see that it's just another way to expose you to more ads imploring you to blow your money on anything BUT student loans.
On top of that, Sallie Mae will not automatically withdraw monthly payments from my bank account in excess of their preset payment plans. Surprise, surprise, all of their plans are as close to the minimum payment as possible with no indication that this will end up costing you thousands of dollars during the lifetime of the loan.
I understand they are running a business not a charity, but I just think it's sick the way they prey upon college students and recent college graduates. I would never consider them for any loan of any type ever again."
"I dislike Sallie Mae for the simple fact that they send me TONS of junk mail, even after changing my accounting settings and submitting a request in writing."
"In the early days, eBay used to be a flea market shopper's paradise. I could find one-of-a-kind items sold by honest sellers cleaning out Grandma's attic. Quality homespun niche businesses sold unique items not found in regular retail stores. Items were priced fairly and shipping rates weren't outrageously inflated. Shopping on eBay was fun, additively so.
In recent years, eBay has become an overpriced junk warehouse. Thirty sellers will auction the same "one-of-a-kind" item at a starting bid of $.01, with a bargain basement shipping rate of $24.99.
If anything is left in Grandma's attic, the heirs are selling it at double its value.
Retail chains have an eBay store that only sell merchandise the foot traffic didn't want.
Unscrupulous sellers bait customers in with low prices only to kick them in their Paypal buttocks with sneaky fee-avoiding, high shipping rates.
Paying is no longer your pal. The consumer protection process is so convoluted that by the time eBay gets around to denying your claim, the seller has already begun defrauding other unsuspecting buyers under a new identity anyway.
I used to be an eBay addict. I simply had to browse everyday just in case I missed that special item I didn't know I wanted. Now, it might be four times a year I find myself on eBay...and rarely do I leave having place a bid or purchased something.
Nothing exciting, nothing unique, nothing cheap (unless you are referring to quality). "
"Ebay is Just EVIL, They grew and grew off of their community, bought paypal, and are now Raising their Rates to up to 10% of the value of your listing! INSANE! Their saying its to "improve their website".... you need BILLIONS to improve your website? I WILL NEVER SHOP EBAY AGAIN after their recent fee changes, They stabbed every customer they had in the back"
"
I got scammed for a car that arrived with $2000+ of damage off eBay. The auction stated just $400 of damage. Paypal told me I was wrong without asking for my side of the story, or any estimates for that sake. That's enough for me.
A list of the damages stated in the auction: Cracked windshield, broken control arm, minor ding.
Actual (that I told PP about): Cracked camber, rims were scraped/spray painted, rear bumper was painted dark blue (the car was black), Cigarette holes in the back seat, larges holes on drivers side carpet, passenger side rearview mirror was missing, four flat tires.
And they told me that they sided with the seller and not to contact them. When I did I was told that they get many scams on cars from fraudulent buyers.
Boy wish I had the Consumerist back then "
"ebay/paypal no contest. They sent me a letter telling me that they weren't going to credit my account for a fraudulent failure-to-refund (mail fraud was involved) charge.
The first paragraph of the letter said they weren't refunding me.
The second said that Paypal does not support or condone fraud.
Hypocritical idiots, and I'm already working on closing my account (but paypal claims I need to wait for 4 months to pass since the last transaction before being able to close my account. I think that's bullshit).
BTW, I did finally get my money back from my bank. Suck it, paypal. (and I just tried again to close the account and it failed again, and the CSR who claimed he'd close it for me by phone the other day was apparently a liar)"
"EBay is full of scams. In my opinion, one of the more insidious is the hijacked account scam.
Phishers send out millions of emails - "Your eBay account will be suspended"; "There is a problem with your eBay
item", etc. Emails have a "click here to respond" button that asks you to log in.
And that's it. The scammers have a legitimate username and matching password! The account has been hijacked!
Shortly thereafter, up to three dozen one-to-three day listings of very expensive, usually sold at list price electronic, athletic or similar equipment will appear as if for sale by the hijacked account holder. Listings always say: "Email me here (not the eBay contact address) for shipping or buy-it-now or other information".
Those who email are given a spectacular price . . . perhaps 1/3 of list including shipping. They are told that they will receive a payment invoice through eBay's Trust and Safety or similar department and that the transaction is perfectly safe because it is approved by eBay. The seller asks only for name and shipping address.
If the potential buyer asks about PayPal, he is told that the seller's account is temporarily full; or there is a problem; or there is a divorce; or some other reason why he needs to deal directly through eBay.
Shortly afterward, he receives an authentic looking "invoice" from eBay and perhaps a second eBay email stating that they have investigated the transaction and it is safe.
The invoice asks the buyer to send the money by Western Union to somewhere in Europe. Once sent, the money is lost. Gone. Of course, the buyer never receives the purchased item because it never existed.
Everything in this scam is forged: the phishing email; the eBay invoice; the eBay verification letter. Nothing appears in the buyer's eBay inbox because nothing is sent from eBay's own server.
If eBay receives complaints about a listing, it will eventually remove it --- perhaps in minutes, perhaps in hours. During that time, the scammer receives email for potential buyers, some of whom will end of sending money by Western Union because the deal is just too good to turn down. The scammers never expect these listings to stay valid for an extended period; just long enough to get some people interested.
A few days latter, the same scammers return with new hijacked accounts and the same listings. Even the "email me here" addresses are the same.
This is a HUGE business. We are talking about $1,000 - $2,000 or more per transaction. In cash.
I believe eBay is part of the problem. They have no organized system to screen for obviously hijacked listings; they frequently leave the listings up even after complaints. More important, it is just too easy to list a sale on eBay. There is no secondary "sale only" password or other verification. Finally, even though these scams leave a mile long electronic trail (including having to show up at a Western Union office somewhere to pick up the money), eBay seems to make minimum, if any attempt, to shut them down.
In my opinion, eBay needs to stop saying: "we are only a venue" and start protecting its customers."
"Paypal freezes your money for no good reason. They regularly screw both buyer and sellers. They claim to have protections but the requirements are so convoluted its nearly impossible to get coverage even if you're trying to follow the steps. They take a huge chunk of the sale price in fees for doing nearly none of the work or risk."
"It isn't a transaction "on eBay". It is a scam that uses hijacked eBay accounts to make offers to people who send them emails. They try to make the buyer think that it is a legitimate transactionthat is approved and escrowed by eBay. Of course, eBay doesn't send out invoices; doesn't approve transactions; doesn't collect or escrow money. But to get a $3,000 computer, audio or other product for only $1,000. Wow! Just send the money by Western Union! Ebay will hold that money until you receive your product!
I understand that there are lots of scams and scammers; and lots of people looking for a bargain. But with very little effort, eBay could shut this whole thing down by responding instantly to reports; by making it harder to list sales (extra password?); and by using the law to go after the scammers."
This is a post in our Worst Company In America 2008 series. The companies nominated for this honor were chosen by you, the readers. Keep track of all the goings on at consumerist.com/tag/worst-company-in-america
STILL OPEN FOR VOTING: TransUnion vs Diebold, Best Buy vs CompUSA, DeBeers vs Verizon, Exxon vs United Airlines, Sony vs Ticketmaster, Comcast vs The American Arbitration Association
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Comments:
Paypal refused to refund me when I had proof of mail fraud. It took my bank stepping in to refund the money. They get my vote and I will never use Paypal or Ebay again. They had their chance to redeem themselves and failed.
this one is actually a bit tough
Quite possibly the most difficult vote yet.
Having never dealt with Sallie Mae.... Ebay/Paypal HANDS DOWN. I bought a picture for my kitchen off of ebay, and although it was only $5.00 for the pic/shipping, I never received it, and the sellers never responded to my inquiries. I checked their feedback... when I bid on the item, there was 1 negative like 6 months ago, otherwise all ++. I checked after 3 weeks of no responses, there was 3-4 brand new negative complaints about not recieving their items, they were in a dispute with paypal. I left my negative feedback as well, as I was already in a dispute.
Needless to say.... these sellers still have an account on ebay. THANKS EBAY FOR PROTECTING ALL THESE IDIOTS FOR PROFITS.
I never had a problem with Ebay/Payapl. Last Christmas, I bought a Coach purse for my girlfriend off of Ebay, and I found out it was a fake, So I tried to contact the seller, asking for my money back and I would send her the purse back. She told me "no. Just re-sell it on Ebay. You'll probably get more money for it." so I contacted Ebay and Paypal, disputed it, and got my money back.
The bitch that sold it to me got into deep shit. So, thank you to Ebay and Paypal for helping me out!
Oh, and Sallie Mae is just pure evil. I had to move my student loans from them to my credit union because of the interest rate that they were raping me with. So, fuck Sallie Mae!
Sounds like the problems with eBay are really not with eBay at all but with the career sellers that *use* eBay. Not really a fault of eBay; in fact probably part of its continued value as it leaves the market free and open to everyone.
Definitely the toughest one yet but I'm sure we will have tougher matches as we get further down the line.
Paypal is a greedy company that doesn't care about anyone except their bottom line and will do anything to nab more money.
They got my vote this round
This is an impossible choice, like being told you can have only lemon-meringue or pecan pie for dessert. Impossible.
Gotta go with ebay, only because of paypal.
Best incident was when I tried to claim a $15 rebate they were running. The expiration elapsed and still no rebate in my account. So began a series of emails which did not "build upon the previous ones" (you know, the ones where each rep fails to actually read the previous conversation).
They ultimately tried to deny me because my purchase was for $70 and showed a $5 refund for free shipping. They said "We can't count that because the item was returned". Finally they gave me the $15 but did not concede any errors. That was the end of my dealings with them.
I was a member of eBay from 2001. Gradually, after they went public they started to suck more and more. I've been burned twice on transactions. Most of the people doing buying and selling are 14 it seems like.
Crushing the dreams of lusty coeds aside, eBay/PayPal took what was one of the shining lights of Silicon Valley and destroyed it. I'm amazed that they still have a share price measured in entire dollar bills.
It IS a tough one tho, and not only because of tight-fitting sweaters and brisk morning air!
Not that anyone cares, but I'm not voting in protest to calling every contest a round. The Stars and Wings didn't play round 4 last night, they played game 4 of the third round, or conference finals. Not every contest is a round.
eBay and Paypal's got nothing on Sallie Mae. Besides, I never buy anything more than $30 off eBay, so I have no problem with the site.
But debt collectors piss me off.
We use PayPal as a payment choice where I work. It always happens where PayPal takes the funds from a customer, but they forget to upload the actual order to us.....OOPS!
Its a joke, it really is.
EBay/PayPal all the way. Sallie Mae is greedy, Ebay et al is corrupt, incompetent, monopolistic...
@ChuckECheese: Pecan.
Linguistic Police: Shouldn't the new Start a discussion text above the comment box be changed? I mean, there's only one guy that's starting the discussion, versus the dozens that are adding on. Thus, it's incorrect the vast majority of the time.
Perhaps, Pile onto the writhing morass of indignant comments? Or Blame the victim here, or ...
Even though I've never done business with them, I had to vote for Sallie Mae. I have to admit, that's mostly because of my general disgust with the private student loan business. I got through college and grad school with GSLs and Direct Loans. I pay 6.25%, and it could be a lot lower if I hadn't consolidated before the rate declines of the early '00s.
When I hear about people paying 10% and higher on private loans because they have nowhere else to turn I just shake my head. College students these days have been thrown to the wolves. Schools commonly raise tuition 8%-10% per year [How many times have you gotten a 10% raise?], meanwhile the cost of financing is up 50%-100%. 2/3 of college grads went into debt to pay for school and their average burden is around $20,000. I can't imagine being 21 years old and paying 10% on a debt like that.
How does Ebay still exist? They are a portal for fraud.
College students these days have been thrown to the wolves.
THIS. Now make sure you vote for the right people this November. For a change.
This was a tough one, but I had to go with Sallie. There's a girl I'm glad I never dated!
eBay and Paypal might cause you to lose $600 on something pricy you bought/sold on that site. Odds are, it's under $100.
Sallie Mae will make you lose thousands when they don't receive a payment that you sent them, but deposit it anyway, and the government helps them do it.
No contest.
Ebay/Paypal, and I work for a company that sells primarily there. There ARE honest sellers that are getting equally screwed by paypal and fraudulent BUYERS. It's my hunch that paypal simply decides that both parties recieved the "paypal decided in [the other party]'s favour" and is simply keeping cash. And if not, the interest rates on the float while they "investigate" must just rake in cash.
I don't know if this will get a fair vote, considering the fact that people are more likely to have dealt with Ebay/Paypal than Sallie Mae (esp for student loans). It's similar to the sudden blowup of all these tragic forclosure stories when student loan borrowers have been suffering this way FOREVER.
I really have to go with ebay/paypal on this one, because both present paypal as a safe method to exchange your goods for money, when it is anything but.
eBay screwed me over royally years ago when I bought a $700 digital camera from some idiot in Pennsylvania. The transaction went smooth as silk, he got the money, I got the camera, we each left positive feedback and everyone was happy.
Then about four months later, said idiot opened a dispute with me, saying I had defrauded him by paying with a fake MoneyGram, even though I had used PayPal. eBay suspended my account, and made me jump through about a million hoops in an attempt to get it reactivated. Even after providing proof of payment via PayPal records, they never resolved the dispute, and eventually stopped responding to my emails. When I called customer service they just laughed and gave me the number to their legal department.
I finally just sucked it up and wrote off the account, along with the high feedback score it had taken me years to build. But I'm still pissed at them, and I hope somebody starts a competing service some day. When they do, I will be THERE.
No experience with Sallie. Back in the day I paid for college courses, because courses were reasonably priced so that a student COULD pay without incurring mind boggling debt. But ... PayPal ought ot be hunted down and killed for the virus it is. First time I used PayPal my (segregated account, thank the gods) was hit 21x for one transaction. PayPal just kept at it. Never apologized, never admitted wrong, only a great bank officer saved me from a ration of bovine scatology. Afterwards I spoke with my family member who is deep in (deep!) into the world of cyber-security (uber-geeks would recogize his name) and he cursed me as a fool for going anywhere near PayPal. "As secure as a screen door in a submarine" was the nicest part of his commentary. The ugly part involved the original code that the current PayPal is layered on top of.
As to Sallie, I wouldf hazard a guess that a group of 419's are running this scam of ludicrous costs of college.
I refuse to use eBay due to fraud.
Boo, eBay!
sallie mae owns me so i hate them for that!
I have ordered like 3 things off of EBay.
I have no loans with Sallie Mae.
Salle Mae destroys people's financial lives. I think people who get scammed by faceless auctioneers should have known the dangers of unaccounatable sellers.
Caveat Emptur.
Sallie Mae FTW.
Man, tough choice. I'm willing to attribute Ebay & Paypal's issues to ignorance and poor growth planning. Sallie's whole business sounds like it revolves around extortion.
Sallie for the loss...
Sallie Mae: Permanent destruction of your finances .
Ebay/Paypal: Temporary damage to finances.
So why is Sallie Mae LOSING the vote?
I used to love eBay, but now their robotic incompetence pisses me off. I had one of my listings cancelled once without notice because I described it as "like-new." Apparently, you're not supposed to use the word "like" because people will put "like Chanel" in their descriptions to draw in people who search for Chanel, which I can understand, but "like-new"? Please.
And is that any worse than the douchebag sellers who list regular, no-extras Wii systems as including 5 games (because the single pack-in has five different sports) and 2 controllers (because the controller splits in two)? I don't think so.
/rant
Sally Mae looks downright bad, like they ruin peoples' lives.
Ebay, meh. Just don't shop there if you don't like it. It's not like there aren't 500 other online stores to shop at that don't have nigerian scammers all over them.
@Trai_Dep: I think its worded correctly. Most people say something worth discussion. Obviously there are always exceptions. cough.
I'm not voting on this one. I've used both and had pleasant experiences.
@SuffolkHouse: I was in the same position as you, but I do remember paypal holding my debit card for 3 months a while ago, so I voted for them. But I take it back. I'm sorry paypal. Sallie Mae keeps dropping my rates because I pay on time. Bastards :)
I am moving from undergrad to graduate at the end of the year. A big reason is so that I don't have to pay off my student loans for another couple of years. I don't currently have anything with Sally Mae and after reading these stories I hope I never do.
Hmm, they are both bad.
But Ebay has known and lied about the extent of the fraud problem for years. Paypal has a checked reputation as well., although used properly it can be a good tool.
Ebay gets the vote this time.
My grad school loans are through Sallie Mae. So far, so good (knock on wood). I voted eBay/PayPal because I have been burned by them so many times. I guess we'll see if I vote differently in the 2009 contest.
The Upromise thing is worth it to me. I've paid off like $3.00 of my student loans just by buying things I was going to buy anyway after only being in the program for two months, and the spam emails only come once or twice a week. I'm sure my name's on a list somewhere, but then my name's already on a few lists I don't get anything for. At least this way I'm paying off principal and reducing interest without having to do anything.
I don't like eBay/Paypal, but...
My college used Sallie Mae for loan processing and made it seem like there were no other options (I now know better). Now that I am stuck repaying my loans with Sallie Mae, I've experienced first hand the poor customer service, botched credit reporting, payment issues, and so on... so Sallie Mae wins hands down.
I've used both: I have student loans with SallieMae and have bought through eBay recently.
I had to vote eBay FTW... SallieMae seems like it has more long-term and damaging horror stories and the recent credit score fiasco didn't help, but if you brought eBay/Paypal to the scale of SallieMae (ie $10,000 - $50,000 transactions) it would be a FAR worse company. Rampant fraud, poor dispute resolution, zero customer service.
Speaking of Upromise, I definitely thought it was sketchy at first and I was hesitant to register my credit card with them, but once I started using it, I was thrilled with it. Every time I get gas, a small percent, like 10 to 15 cents gets deposited into an account that I can use to pay off my loans. When you make bigger purchases it's a couple dollars. If you have self-control and only use the shopping website when you were gonna buy something anyway it's a nice little bonus. SallieMae is a company I actually don't mind doing business with.
@Bladefist: Try re-reading my first para again. More slowly?
The second one - pains me to have to point out something so obvious - is for the chuckles. Figures that's the one you take issue with. Sigh.
If I promise to give you a vigorous hate-f*ck, will you leave me alone?
Not that the issue matters greatly - it's Consumerist's call and a small thing.
let's see... one that can affect the life of a young adult, and one that affects people that use the internet to get scammed.
Tough choice. Sallie MAe it is.
@krom: Actually, eBay's ridiculous fees is what's keeping the old kind of sellers off the site and items sold for $25 shipping (to avoid fees). It's eBay's fault the site has become a nest of scam artists.
Sallie Mae Vs. eBay and PayPal? Two against one. Tag team wins.
Due to the recent credit score mishap, I'm voting Sallie Mae.
I vote Sallie Mae only because they're more life altering. If you get screwed by Ebay, you're out some money, maybe even a lot of money. But Sallie Mae can harrass you at home and work, infiltrate your bank account, fuck over your credit score, AND they pretend to be a caring sympathetic corporation. At least Ebay says "buyer beware."
I hope eBay/Paypal win, I hate double-dippers.