Moreno And Woods: Scammy Debt Collectors Who Lie And Harrass
Erin was the recipient of a recent scam attempt from Moreno and Woods, a debt collection agency that—according to her account and others found online—uses abusive tactics and fraudulent claims to try to con people into paying off debts they never owed to avoid things like wage garnishments and lawsuits. Erin fought back, and shared her story with us to warn others.
I received a voicemail today (5/27/08) out of the blue from a man who identified himself as David Cooper from Moreno and Woods. He said he was calling regarding Case Docket #93659, and that I must return his call immediately or else "the matter" could result in wage garnishment, denial of credit, or closing of existing lines of credit. He gave his number as 866-928-3160, ext. 109. Since the voicemail didn't provide any information that would allow me to discount the matter out of hand, I returned my call.
Cooper retrieved my file, asked if I was Ms. [redacted] - I said I was - and asked me to confirm the last four digits of my SSN - I did not reply to that. I asked him what the call was regarding, and he said that they had a "judgement" against me from Bank of America regarding an outstanding balance of $20,000 on Visa account ending #1181 that was opened in 2001 and closed in 2004. (To the best of my knowledge this account never existed, let alone belonged to me - even supposing someone else had opened it in my name, there should have been some contact regarding it at some point, or a record of it on my credit report). I asked in what court the judgement was obtained, and he said they had the judgement "in the office." I asked again what that meant, and what court of law had entered a judgement against me. He said that technically there was not a judgement yet, but three debt collections agencies had tried to get this money and so the claim was being filed in [redacted] County (where I reside - looks like they're smart enough now to Google area codes before they get on the phone) on May 30.
I said that I had no recollection of that account, had never been contacted by a collection agency, and that I have done business with Bank of America regularly over the past several years. I asked if he thought it was odd such an issue would not have arisen in that time. He said it was odd but he wasn't making it up and if anything someone might have stolen my identity. I said that I check my credit report regularly, and said that if someone has accumulated this debt by using my information, it would be extremely odd that it had not shown up on my credit report, and that neither BofA or a debt collection agency had contacted me in the intervening six years since the account was supposedly opened, or the four years since it supposedly defaulted. He agreed and said he was just trying to figure it since "the judgement" was against me for $20,000. At that point I told him that there might be people who fall for this sort of thing but I wasn't one of them.
He again tried to say that it wasn't up to him, there wasn't anything to "fall for" because he was looking at my folder right there, and there was a judgement against me in court. I asked in what court the claim had been heard - he said again it was going to [redacted] County and would be entered there. I said I understood that, but he had already referenced a docket number (93659) and I wanted to know what court of law had provided that docket number, since a docket number would not have been generated unless a claim had already been filed against me somewhere. He said, "The docket number is here - it's number 93659." I asked again what court of law had provided that docket number. He could not answer (obviously, since it is a scare tactic and no claim has been filed against me anywhere).
Finally I said he had already told me so many falsehoods I had no reason to believe anything he had to say - he asked, "What, falsehoods?" I said, "You called my home, you left a threatening message saying that a claim had filed against me in court and that I could face financial penalties, then when I called you said a judgement had been entered against me - none of that is true!" He asked me to hold on (sounded like he was trying to get a supervisor on the line or something) and I refused, saying "And I'm going to ask here not to call here again," and then hanging up.
Immediately following this conversation, I went online and obtained my credit reports from the three credit agencies (I had not obtained them in just over a year). Everything was in order - I printed off the reports - but while I was printing the last one an inquiry showed up on it from Marshall & Ziolkowski, a well known rip-off company who are now apparently using Moreno and Woods as a front. I immediately put a fraud alert on my reports as well. Hopefully this is the end of it, but I'm prepared to take legal action if they continue to contact me or try to report this fraudulent debt to the credit agencies.
I am just disgusted. The attitude would have been bad enough even if the debt existed, and since it DOES NOT EXIST, it's even worse. And as mad as I am, I'm glad they called me instead of someone who might have believed their scare tactics and paid them - I've worked in the legal field before (specifically, I have worked with creditors on debt consolidation and relief for the disabled and injured), I know my few debts down the cent and I am current on all of them, I am not easily intimidated over the phone, I know how to check my credit report, add a fraud alert, and dispute fraudulent claims, I know my rights and I know what information a legitimate company would have to prove any real debt - how absolutely terrified would I be if I didn't know any of those things? If I thought maybe there WAS some huge bill out there that I now had to pay or face legal penalties? These people should be in prison.
Erin points out that, should they call back, she has several options open to her:
The next steps, if they pursue this, could include me sending a demand for debt validation and/or cease and desist orders; reporting them to the BBB and relevant AGs [Attorney Generals]; and suing them for any violations of FDCPA or FCRA.
RELATED
Moreno and Woods [800notes.com]
"Report: Moreno And Woods"[Rip-off Report]
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Comments:
I nominate Erin for "Most Awesome Person of the Week."
Oh, another thought: I wonder how Marshall & Ziolkowski got her SSN to run her credit....
The fact that they have a docket number means nothing. Attorneys use various docketing systems inside their own offices, and there's nothing preventing a debt collector from doing so as well. In this case, that probably just means that her case was assigned a number by the debt collectors.
Personally, I like to keep an air horn next to the phone for this very reason. One good blast and they have to take a time out before calling their next victim.
"The next steps, if they pursue this, could include me sending a demand for debt validation and/or cease and desist orders; reporting them to the BBB and relevant AGs [Attorney Generals]; and suing them for any violations of FDCPA or FCRA.'
I would have already done all of these things. I hate scammers that try to intimidate people and I LOVE giving them a taste of their own medicine!
Saying that a judgment has been entered and mentioning wage garnishment when the person calling doesn't represent a law office and there being no actual judgment makes this a open and shut FDCPA violation(s). This story is something I would expect to see as a simplified example of a violation in a handbook. This is the easiest money you can ever make...it's 100% slam dunk in court.
From the "official" website:
"Moreno and Woods is a technologically sophisticated accounts receivable management organization."
LOL sophisticated. Also, right below the "Next Event" button there looks like a placeholder for...
Well, we'll never know, since it still has "Include a short description here." written on it XD
Wonder of they pay him enough to do 30 years for them?
18 U.S.C. § 1343:
Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.
@LorneReams: Unless the phone call was recorded and Erin could get a copy of it, it'd be her word against Cooper's in a hearing as to whether words were said to misrepresent Cooper as a lawyer.
Wow! After reading that I realized that I have a lot to learn about protecting myself. If I would have received that call I can guarantee that I wouldn't have been as in control as she was. I probably would have panicked. Thanks for the lesson and keep up the great stories!
I wouldn't let the conversation go so long and take up my time. I would have said great, I'm looking forward to settling this matter, just send me proof the debt is mine through the mail, and this is your formal notice not to call me again.
They already owe $1000 as per the FDCPA for pulling you credit report with out permission. File a suit in small claims court against them for the NPP in the county you reside in.
Chances are they will no-show and you will get a default judgment.
I got a default judgement for $1000 against a local debt collector for this same reason. After 30 days I showed up at their office with a sheriffs deputy (my brother -in-law). He informed the boss we were going to take $1000 worth of computer equipment, and he was going to go to jail for contempt. I had my check for $1000 in less them 5 minutes.
What's the deal with the fake debt collectors lately? It sure seems like there's a lot of this kind of thing going around.
1)Make up phony debt.
2)Scare less informed folks into paying.
3)Profit.
It's like a business can get away with anything lately. Isn't there anyone watching these guys? Geez.
Try this: "Ya, buddy. I hear you. The last guy who called with fake debt couldn't prove it to my lawyer. Can I just give you his number to shorten this conversation?"
Shouldn't matter if you have a lawyer or not. Believe me, they don't want to talk to any lawyers. They know they're up to no good.
Always ask for a copy of everything in writing.
Use the excuse that you are slow to comprehend or unable to clearly hear the conversation.
And then wait for the mail that never arrives because the scammers never want to mail any document.
Ya see, mail fraud is so easy to prove when the documents are mailed to you.
In small claims court, with additional info and a history of these actions, the magistrate tends to give the consumer the benefit of the doubt. Your point is valid though, record all calls. Legitimate parties will have no problem with being recorded, and if they don't, then problem solved anyway.
If this happens to me, I plan to adopt a slow Southern drawl and keep repeating, "Yer not gittin' mah account number."
Bravo! It's nice to read a story about someone who knows what's going on and knows the steps necessary to protect themselves. She did everything right in this case. You go Erin!
$20k sounds awfully greedy for random cash grabs. Or are they hoping for that 1 person in 1000 attempted victims being drunk, dumb, or insane enough to ok a payment?
Wait, how did they obtain authorization to pull her credit? I would think they were in violation of FCRA just by pulling a credit report when there was no legitimate reason to do so.
@nytmare:
If you think you have a judgment against you for $20K, you will be more likely to accept a settlement for $8K...even less as they work you.
Erin did sound great to all you guys, but I'm gonna have to go blame the victim here.
Did Erin ever once think of the person on the other end of the phone who was just doing there job?
Or maybe like me, Erin (who actually shares my namesake but of the opposite gender) was in college in 2001, drinking heavely and passing out from time to time. Under those circumstances, isnt it possble she opened a credit line for $20K.
Perhaps this was a radio prank call and at the end her (insert loved one here) was going to tell it was all a joke and that everyone loves her.
Finally, when someone even hints that they have the authority of the law behind them, the law states that you are supposed to cower and kneel to their demands, so even though Erin was right on the physical evidence, she's very wrong in person.
Less of this and more of poor ladies being arrested because someoen stole a credit card and had the items shipped to her house resulting in her unlawful arrest. Real victims only for me.
wrong in person=wrong in principle
Send a certified letter to the agency demanding to see the so-called judgement. Before you do this, contact Bank of America and get documentation that you have never had a credit card with the stated numbers. Also make it crystal clear that you are filing suit against them for fraud. I had to something similar to an attorney in Little Rock, AR. He was never charged with a crime but he was disbarred for ethics violations.
I really hope that's sarcastic and my radar is just way off today. Otherwise, your explanations are pitiful at best.
Oh, and there=his. A rare grammatical twofer.
The SAME Thing keeps happening to my GF!
@Wormfather: dude... thats so many what if's... and the law does not state that you are suppose to cower and kneel to their demands... what kinda third world country are you from?
@SchuylerH: Given that I'm from South Carolina, I could pull off the drawl with no problem.
I recently had a debt collector leave me a message in regard to some docket number of another. The thing is, (a) I know all three of my credit reports look fine, and (b) I know that there are at least two other women in the US with my name, and one with my exact full name (my last name is very rare). I figure the collections agency got a hold of my cell number through a directory and was calling women with my name at random, and leaving us all threatening messages. Not as sleazy as Erin's story, but it did remind me of "The Terminator", where Arnold was just knocking off all the Sarah Connors, just to be sure.
At budhibbs.com, we're beating up on these guys daily.
they're also known as Kingman and Cole, Moreno and Woods, etc.
Okay, I'm convinced. What's a good cheap device I can use to record phone calls?
AAARRGGHHH!! Judgment, not Judgement!
it would have been a lot more clever if they had used a 75-cents-a-minute toll line as the number they told you to call back to.
In that case, well done. Guess I'm just way used to oh so many, let's say, 'uninformed' opinions on Consumerist.
@Wormfather: LOL! yea, i was pretty much like wtf?
@LorneReams: We don't even need that. They left a voicemail that containe dinformation that would tell someone else she was in this supposed debt and owed money. Leaving messages in theat fashion is illegal all by itself.
Sounds like wire fraud to me.
Or maybe not - I'm thinking of something else :)
Just wanted to say that you will not always see suspicious behavior on your credit reports. I read an article today about an illegal immmigrant from Mexico who acquired this woman's social security number in order to get a job, and she only found out about it while looking at her 401(k) printout which had his name listed on it as well as her's. She dug deeper and found that there are so many privacy laws that even if you do a credit check only YOUR name will show up under your SS number, not the 2nd person's who ALSO has your SS. This means that you could have no idea anyone even has your SS number until you decide to go apply for a credit card and get turned down, or find out someone has taken out thousands of dollars of loans in your name. They call these a "sub-file" and you cannot see them even in your own credit report. Its scary.
Link to story: [redtape.msnbc.com]
@gnimsh:
Sometimes reading this site makes me sad, as I think about all the different systems we are all-but forced to participate in, which are designed to basically screw us.
I would have reported them and their masters to the BB and every other agency that would give a damn. These people prey on the innocent and it should not be tolerated. Luckily there are the few who know enough like her to tell them to die in a fire.
My fiance has had a lot of problems like this, weird debt collectors coming at her with debts that are nowhere in her credit reports. Even the "collection notices" were misspelled repeatedly! We just put them through the shredder, never heard from them again.
Another thing that should be done with these callers is to ask for their full name, the company's full name, phone number and address of the building they are sitting in. A bogus caller will refuse to give this info since this info is the minimum necessary to pursue a criminal case.
Trying to resolve this kind of thing or even reporting them to BBB sounds like a waste of time.
They're scammers, they know it, and could care less if they have "unresolved complaints" logged against them.
Wow, she handled herself fabulously. The other thing that comes to mind is to request that they send/fax verification of the debt. Usually, when a valid debt goes to collections, the original creditor provides the collections agent with documentation.