Microsoft And The $1,632 Copy Of Vista
Microsoft charged Bill $1,632 for a single Windows Vista Ultimate upgrade license. Each time Bill, an IT Manager, tried to his enter his payment details through Windows Live Marketplace he was told that Microsoft could not be contacted, and to "please try again later." What Microsoft really meant was, "Ha! Got your money! How 'bout some more?!"
Bill ultimately entered his payment information 7 times. Each attempt cost him $233.15. Now his account is out $1,632, and Microsoft is refusing to help.
He writes:
My name is Bill. I work at a large University and deal with Microsoft quite frequently as an IT Manager. Recently I went to purchase the new Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate operating system from their online store, Windows Live Marketplace for my personal use on my home computer. I filled out all the appropriate documentation and submitted my order to them with my debit card information and the nightmare began....
Upon selecting "submit" from their site I was immediately taken to a page stating "Microsoft cannot be contacted at this time" or similar, "Please try again later." So needing a license for Vista right away I resubmitted it and, again, got the same thing "Microsoft cannot be contacted at this time, please try again." After 6 attempts, finally, the 7th attempt was successful and I was able to purchase a copy of Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade (which turns out was not what I wanted in the first place). I thought all was well until the following morning... I received a call from the fraud prevention department at my bank stating I had been charged by Microsoft 7 times at $233.15!!!!!!
This was completely unacceptable and I immediately phoned Microsoft when I got to work. Microsoft stated to me that the problem was with the bank and that the charges hadn't actually posted to my account and I just need to wait for the bank to update their info so this is what I did. After a couple days nothing had changed in my bank account. I was still in the hole roughly -$500.00 thanks to Microsoft.
I called Microsoft again and was told my issue would be "escalated". Ok I thought. No problem they recognize the problem and are working to address it and get this taken care of. WRONG. They did in fact remove a couple of the charges (4 of them) but what about the other 3???? I contacted Microsoft Windows Live Marketplace and stated it has been about 2 weeks and I have still seen no change in my bank account. I then told them I would now like to get a refund as well for the one copy I did actually receive. That return was processed in the same phone call the way I would expect the others to be credited back to my bank account. WRONG again. So by this time I have spent almost all month without any money and being late on all of my bills and now, almost a month later, am STILL waiting on Microsoft to refund the other 2 charges that were posted to my account at $233.15. This is almost $500.00 and for someone who gets paid monthly is completely unacceptable. I have been calling Microsoft now for 2 weeks straight and all the Microsoft Windows Live Marketplace keeps telling me is "I am sorry sir your issue has been escalated to our product delevopment team and you should get a call back today or tomorrow." WRONG yet again.... Everytime I call its the same story "... it has been escalated sir sorry" "we will call you tomorrow" ..... No call.
I am really irritated and have asked numerous times for a number or email address to "Product Development" and they keep telling me they don't even have that information and that the system they use doesn't even tell the support person I am speaking with that contact information. WHAT KIND OF SYSTEM IS THIS?
I now have overdue bills and am going hungry for what would appear to be the rest of the month.... I suppose this is what I get for trying to do things legitimately with Microsoft... A big smack in the face.
I give Microsoft a lot of business being and IT manager at a large University but am extremely dissatisfied with this whole experience. I will be seeking Unix/Linux alternatives.
Please Help!!!!
The charges posting:
The charges clearing:
Bill could have protected himself by charging Vista to his credit card. Since Microsoft is unwilling to reverse the clearly erroneous charges, it's time to ask the bank to stand up and fight for its customer. If conversations don't help, leap over the hurdles of incompetence and fire an Executive Email Carpet Bomb at both Microsoft and the bank.
(Photo: johnsu01)
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Comments:
To add to my post, your bank/credit card company obviously sucks ass if they didn't catch this and call you right away to see what was up.
And why use a debit card for this? With a credit card, you could easily just deal with your credit card company. For an IT Manager who deals with Microsoft often, it would seem that a) he would know which product to purchase and b) have alternate ways of purchasing (even for himself).
This story needs to be spread onto Slashdot and some of the other tech blogs. This is an astronomical level of misuse of the electronic payment gateways and really, really bad customer service.
I'll probably come off as kind of a dick here, but...
In the story, Bill writes, "I now have overdue bills and am going hungry for what would appear to be the rest of the month..."
An IT Manager for a major university who's life is riding on being out $500? While I think this is a terrible situation for Bill to be in, and MS or his bank should absolutely correct the issue now, he might be good to use Consumerist to look into some of the ways to learn to build some type of savings and investments. This seems to be the real issue here.
Spending over $200 on an upgrade to something he probably doesn't NEED or can wait for, doesn't seem like good spending habits when the space between you and homelessness and/or starvation is $500 (that's only a dozen or fewer tanks of gas).
Which bank's involved here?
And this is another example to use a credit card, not a debit card.
In Canada:
In a proven case of online fraud, you are protected by the 'Customer Services Rules', which ensure that your funds are returned to your bank account by your Financial Institution. These 'Rules' are based on the reputable Canadian Code of Practice for Consumer Protection in Electronic Commerce. While we work with all stakeholders, as well as security experts, to maintain the ongoing security of our services, there are actions that you can take as well. You are encouraged to regularly check your bank statements to verify that all transactions have been properly documented. If entries do not accurately reflect transaction activities - for example, if there are missing or additional transactions you should immediately contact your financial institution.
the hell with vist. i'm sticking withh xp till the system falls apary.......
Was he buying a download or a ordering a physical disk?
If a download, as an IT Manager he should know better.... it is far better to have the physical disk for an OS.
If a physical disk, why not just buy it from the local B&M, price will be virtually the same and there is the immediate satisfaction with the quick purchase.
Fixing the current problem will be easier from the MS end of the ball game as they have the proof (or lack thereof) of the purchases being downloaded or shipped.
ya talk to the bank. also debit card = anyone can steal all of your money, including microsoft.
go hungry for a month? sounds a bit dramatic. i'm sure you can bother a friend for some food money :)
First big mistake: using a debit card to make such a purchase = open access to bank account. I use my AMEX card for online purchases. That way I can make a chargeback if need me. Hindsight - 20/20..
Good luck bro.
I read the consumerist all of the time and it drives me nuts everytime someone says you should be using a credit card for large purchases and never your debit card. Some people don't use credit cards. I don't. My wife and I have sworn off credit cards and will never use or own one again for any reason. Telling people they should use a be using a credit card is just spreading the destructive myth that to operate on our society, a credit card is a requirement and not having one is stupid. I do agree that you are taking a risk using your primary checking account for online purchases, especially large ones. That's why I have a second checking account specifically for online purchases. I keep a minimal amount of money in this account and transfer money from my main checking account to this one as needed when I need to make a large online purchase. It is not the perfect solution, but neither is telling everyone they NEED to get or use a credit card.
@tptcat: Seriously? You're seriously going to pick at this guy's finances knowing two things about him? Go troll elsewhere. This attitude right here is what makes the Consumerist comment area the steaming pile underneath what really is very good, relevant information in a blog I love.
A true "IT Manager" wouldn't be buying an upgrade version and wouldn't be buying from Microsoft's website (imho) ...
From Newegg
Upgrade Ultimate = $184.99
OEM Ultimate = $169
Retail Ultimate = $279
I looked to see what MS would charge me to upgrade from my vista home premium -> ultimate via the builtin upgrade tool included in vista .. it would cost me more for the upgrade than to just outright buy a new OEM copy from newegg.
Guys, he may have not got his stimulus check or something. I back Sqeegoth.
As for Micro$uck, is anyone surprised here. SWITCH TO A MAC TODAY....incompetence vs Mac is what it's looking like in this world. I'm not trying to advertise, but damn, they do exist other alternatives. Time to face it Mr. IT Guy.
And people wonder why products are pirated
What a dumb IT Manager paying much for a upgrade when you can get a full install OEM disk for under $200.
@danieldavis: Use a MAC and you too can speak horrible English!
I'm not normally one to blame the consumer, but after attempt #3 wouldn't a normal person have realized there was something wrong with the system and perhaps stopped trying? Remind me never to go to whatever "Large University" trusts this guy for IT.
charge back.
Let the Credit Card company duke it out with Microshaft.
Looks like the money wasn't actually debited yet. Unless my eyes are tricking me, they're preauthorization holds. So, the money's not debited yet. Just on hold.
I'd speak to the bank and ask them to RELEASE the hold immediately.
Furthermore, in future purchases, I'd use a corporate credit card and not risk the bank account at the same time.
"A true "IT Manager" wouldn't be buying an upgrade version"
Yep. That's been true since the days of Windows 98.
Damn... A TRUE IT manager at a university would have just ordered the .EDU version of Technet for $90...
In this day and age you've gotta be a pretty stupid IT guy to pay more than retail for Windows Ultimate.
In fact, WTF do you need ultimate for anyway? The few extra features in it do not make it worth the money.
Dude, the charges show as "PRE-AUTHORIZATION". That means they didn't actually bill you, they just validated that you were within your credit limit and locked that amount of your available credit. The charges will disappear automatically after a few days.
@bwcbwc - Well since we're talking a debit card rather than a credit card, it means they locked your available balance. This can be a bit more of a pain in the ass, since it locks real money rather than a credit line, but it should still clear automatically when the final debit doesn't go through.
, but damn, they do exist other alternatives.
@danieldavis:
I take it grammar check do exist not in OSX?
@digitoxin: sorry, but you are totally wrong on this. Yes, it's stupid to overextend yourself on credit cards, but if you pay them off in full at the end of the month they are MUCH preferable to debit cards. With credit cards you have the protection of the Fair Credit Billing Act. You can dispute charges and the bank must not charge you for the disputed item(s) until your complaint is investigated. With a debit card or check, you are just out the money and on your own to correct any problem. Using a credit card is the ONLY dependable way to protect yourself from bad transactions online.
It is not legal to buy an OEM copy of Windows unless you are buying a new Motherboard/CPU along with it
How can you claim that your method is preferable to a credit card? Putting money in an account, and then using a debit card linked to it? Methinks that you're opening yourself up to two dangerous situations - no possibility of a chargeback, and an overdraft fee if your transfer doesn't clear immediately or you mis-estimate the amount needed.
You clearly have something against credit cards, but you can do the exact same thing with them, except in reverse. Charge the purchase on a cc; then immediately (not when the bill comes, immediately) pay off the amount due. Now there's no chance of a fee, and you get the additional protection.
And more on an FYI basis, but why do you think that needing a credit card is a destructive myth? Yes, I espouse the opposite point of view, but I'm genuinely interested in hearing your reasons.
Debit card vs. credit card isn't necessarily an either/or situation. If you have a debit card with the VISA or MasterCard logos, those are accepted AS credit cards--and it's preferable to use them that way.
Sure, they're still debit cards and they're still tied to your bank account, and the money still comes directly out of your bank account. But if you use them as credit cards you are entitled to the very same consumer protections as any other pure credit card.
It's been shown that people who use credit cards, even if they pay them off every month, tend to spend more than those using pure cash. I don't know where debit cards stand in all of this, but there was no reason for this guy not to have a debit card that's tied to the credit card system.
My local bank went to VISA branded debit cards, that can be used as either debit or credit card, some years back. It's no big deal; I use it at the ATM, and I use it at those few restaurants that don't take my Discover card. But when I do use it at those restaurants, I don't give a PIN or otherwise use it as a debit card. It gets swiped and used as a credit card, complete with all the consumer protections a credit card has.
Sounds like it's time to go Mac . . . .
I've never received an incorrect product from newegg in the 7 years I have done business with them.
quoted -
"Recently I went to purchase the new Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate operating system from their online store, Windows Live Marketplace for my personal use on my home computer."
He wasn't purchasing for the university, he was purchasing for private use, so saying something along the lines of ..
"Some companies will not reimburse you for your payment unless it is from certain places like authorized retailers."
has no bearing.
Yeah and good luck trying to find any new games to play on it, and of course you know you cant upgrade the video card in a Mac either to anything decent. Ill own a Mac when I can play new games on it. Not ones that came out for PC 5 years ago. And Ill buy one when I can put a Nvidia 9800GTX OC 1GB video card in one.
This is why you should use a credit card.
@linbey: N00b, Macs have slots that work fine with Nvidia. Not to mention the built-in ones in the all-in-one/laptops, which are comparable with other mfrs. Most the leading games are on Mac, and for those that aren't (Gabe Newell sucks eggs), dual-boot solves that.
Yup - have to agree: a REAL IT professional would have upgraded to Mac.
"I received a call from the fraud prevention department at my bank stating I had been charged by Microsoft 7 times at $233.15!!!!!!"
If fraud prevention called him, that should have been the end of it right there. If he had said "I did not recieve the merchendise for 6 of those 7 charges." I'm sure the bank would have taken care of it, as they are the ones that noticed the activity in the first palce.
Why would an IT manager be buying a copy of Windows Vista in the first place?
First, if you are in IT long enough nothing Microsoft does surprises you anymore. Is he just days on the job or something?
Second, after attempt #2 fails it is time to go buy a boxed copy somewhere on the internet as others have mentioned. How smart is it to keep flogging the broken website?
My Microsoft mouse broke, time to switch to Linux. Haha, whatever.
This is poor planning and implementation on the part of the IT manager. First off, Volume Licensing is what you need especially if you are using the "large university" statement. The only reason to buy retail versions of the operating system is if those versions are going to stay bound to those workstations.
Secondly, if you were a half decent manager you would have realized that the upgrade keys are worthless in your world anyway without updating your environment to a 2008 domain or installing the Server 2008 AD components. If you had done this, you would have been able to also setup the actual license server and have your workstations contact your license/WDS server for updates and have them "pull" the vista upgrade from the WDS server.
Not to mention there is no real reason to go to Vista unless these requirements are met and you know the applications in your current server environment will be supported on the server 2008 platform.
Sounds like someone has a lot of reading to do.
As for the bank issue, yes, Microsoft overcharged you but this could have all been avoided had you taken the time to research what you were actually getting your IT department into by going to a Vista workstation environment. Just upgrading to the latest and greatest thing will always come back to bite you in the ass if you do it on a whim which is what it sounds like happened.
Hey! I can see myself and some of my friends in the back of that picture :)
We were some beta testers who Microsoft invited to launch. See the short guy in the hazmat suit in the way back? The squirly one? Yeah he was in an arguement with me about why Linux is better, and I had some friends from Microsoft on the phone giving me lines to feed him :) that was fun!!!
@gnubian: Exactly, I run the network at my work (not by choice, I'm just the only one who knows *anything* about computers [I don't know how many times I've had to explain backslash]) and I always buy OEM from a third party.
from the looks of things this is a 5/3 online account. i should know.. i have one. and honestly if they get them involved it will be nothing but headaches in the end. terrible customer support, but something has to be resolved in the end. this seems like a gross incompetence level on both ends. after (hopefully) reading review after review of how vista should not be put into the limelight just yet, he should've thought twice. but at the same time this should've been something rectified very quickly. i mean come on, if they're tracking registration and serial numbers and there's 7 copies unregistered, wouldn't that throw up red flags to someone in support?
Dare I say anybody willing to buy Vista, much less pay for an UPGRADE to useless Vista Ultimate deserves this? I blame the victim here.