Manager Photographs Teenagers And Says They Are Banned From The Apple Store For Life
Whatever you do, don't download any fun 3rd party programs to the iPhones at the University Avenue Apple store in Palo Alto, California. You may be detained for 2 1/2 hours, then photographed and told that other Apple stores will be " on the lookout" for you.
From the San Jose Mercury News:
We're halfway down the block when the manager comes running out and tells us to stop right there,"' Fukuba said.
The students were ordered to return to the store, where a security guard and the manager called police, Vicenti said.
Sgt. Sandra Brown confirmed that the store called the Palo Alto Police Department and an officer responded, but made no arrests. She said the store issued the teens an "admonishment" to leave the store, but police did not force them out.
After being lectured by the manager on the dangers of "hacking" into the phones, the teens were photographed and told their pictures were being sent to all Apple stores "so they'd be on the lookout for us," Rogers said.
He and Patel were then allowed to leave. Fukuba and Vicenti, who are both under 18, had to wait for their parents to come pick them up.
Over the next few days, the boys worried about the ban's repercussions.
Fukuba wondered what will happen if he needs to get his computer or iPhone repaired.
"I'll have to get a friend to buy stuff for me, like a drug deal," Fukuba said.
Later in the week, the teens had heard through a friend that a different manager had told said they were still welcome at Apple, despite what the other employees had said.
"I'm not really sure what's going on," Fukuba said.
An Apple spokesperson confirms that the teenagers are not banned from the Apple store in any way: "They were not banned from that store or any other store," he said.
Teens say they were banned from Apple stores for life, company denies it [SJMN]
(Photo: epicharmus )
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Comments:
This is the kind of stuff that happens when people don't know their rights. I blame part of it on the High School system that makes no effort to teach such rights. The kids had no obligation to return to the store, and should have refused the managers request to do so and proceeded home.
Exactly. They should have kept walking.
@Pylon83 sounds like false imprisonment to me!
imagine what would have happened if they had tried to give the manager cash to let them leave...
[consumerist.com]
Apple needs to be working a little harder when hiring these managers. I've dealt with some major asshat managers at apple, and this just seems a little too commonplace.
Stupid manager on a power trip...
Yeah, that is a big deal and we all need to discuss the plight of civil rights in this country.
@Pylon83: Exactly, and if they don't know their rights and aren't being taught in high school then their parents should have damn well told them! I would have kept walking thats for sure.
I don't know about any other high school, but mine never offered any life skills classes. In fact, they didn't even offer anything close to that. (And I just graduated)
I'm glad I have the Consumerist to teach me these things! :)
Another reason to not buy Apple. They are all elitists, and put themselves on such a huge pedestal. The kids being that they are 18, shouldn't have had to wait for their parents. I can't tell you how many stories I've read on here about an Apple "genius" or employee or whatever being a douchebag.
On a different note, does that kid really do his drug deals like that because that's crazy giving someone else your money and trusting them to bring you back your shit! Especially at 18 years old.
@MissTicklebritches:
I read the article. Based on the few facts it contains, I don't think it probably amounted to false imprisonment. It's a pretty high burden, and there is no evidence that they asked to leave, or were physically prevented from leaving. There has to be some force, or threat of force, keeping them there. If there was a locked door, etc. keeping them in, then yes, maybe it was. But based on the little information we have, I'd say it probably doesn't rise to that level.
Damn whippersnappers should be home studying.
Apple products, in my experience, have been really solid- but I've visited Apple stores 3 times, and not one of those times was positive. I think the stores cater to a bit of a different crowd.
@snoop-blog: They are not 18. "Fukuba and Vicenti, who are both under 18, had to wait for their parents to come pick them up." (Emphasis mine.)
@joemono:
I'm not sure it matters if they are 18 or not. The store doesn't really have any right to detain them to begin with. Had they protested at being held, the store could be in some real trouble.
@DoktorGoku: I'd rather have a shit product with excellent customer service, than have an excellent product and shit customer service for on reason: Your products can only be as good as your customer service.
ummm..lawsuit anyone?
Probably more to the story than this version.
Well, the kids were in the wrong. You don't put programs on something that isn't yours. The Manager had a right to ban them from the store for that I think, though it is kinda asshattery.
I'm thinking those programs they put in weren't harmless- but even, there are missing details, so can't say for sure.
The manager's version left in the part about the flame thrower.
@arstal:
The kids were in the wrong, but that doesn't give the store the right to detain them. Shopkeepers privilege only applies to shoplifting. They certainly have the right to ban them, but not to keep them in the store against their will. That said, there isn't any evidence in the story that they were held against the will.
Like Fukuba is the kid's real name. What would be the grounds for the kid's suit, "He was really a jerk, man. We were just fooling around, like you know?"
I blame the customer, this could have been avoided if instead of listening to the manager from the street, they kept on walking.
No kidding. I would have given the manager the finger and went on my way.
Kudos to the manager!! The manager was doing his job protecting his store's assets.
@Pylon83: The presence of a security guard detaining you is legally accepted as under arrest in most countries. They don't even have to say "you are under arrest", just the idea that you are arrested is legally binding when suing for false imprisonment.
"they'd be on the lookout"
Can't read that without thinking of Burt Reynolds in 'Boogie Nights.'
@seamer:
But there still has to be some sort of actual detainment. They presumably voluntarily went with them back to the store. There has to be something more than simply feeling compelled to stay in order to qualify as false imprisonment. Unless you can provide some sort of authority for your proposition that a private security guard being present constitutes arrest, I'm going to say that you're wrong and it isn't "legally binding".
Well if they're installing anything on the iPhones, they'd have to jailbreak them, and if I was the manager, I sure as hell wouldn't want them doing that.
If the kids were doing this, the right thing to do would be to go back to that store, apologize to the manager for screwing with the store's stuff beyond what is reasonable, give him the opportunity to apologize for keeping them there, and then magically no harm, no foul.
Just an FYI, what the kids were doing is the equivalent of going into a car showroom and sticking a piece of chewed gum on the floor model.
Yeah, it's not a big deal, but it's a pain in the *ss to clean up and wastes everyone's time. Plus it's annoying, ugly, and may cost a sale.
Unwarranted? Well, they won't be jailbreaking phones in-store anymore, so they've learned something.
That something, of course, is to move faster when you've done something a bit funky to someone else's property.
It's called CRACKING, not HACKING!
I was in an Apple store last week and counted 3 popped collars.
How were they doing something wrong? Was there a sign next to the phone stating that you shouldn't install applications on the phone? Were the phones locked down, not allowing anyone to install anything? The phones were DEMO units. They were there for people to play with. They had internet connectivity which allowed them to TRY software on a phone that they may have wanted to purchase.
I find it funny that the article also mentioned that Apple was planning on allowing prospective customers the opportunity of installing applications on their demo units.
So who's in the wrong?
The students for doing something that I myself may have even wanted to do (To truly test the capabilities of the phone prior to throwing down that much cash)?
Apple for being so exclusive that their employees think you should have a background check prior to buying anything?
Or the manager for being a total douche and not seeing 4 college bound kids that he just pissed off (That will most likely by an Apple because it's cool)?
@Pylon83: So, you think high schools, rather than teaching, oh, math and science, should have classes in how to deal with over-aggressive store managers, your right not to show your receipt at Home Depot, etc.?
Thanks, but I'll teach my kids that stuff myself and leave it to the schools to teach calculus and physics (which I always sucked at).
NERDS!!
Same thing happened to Bart and Millhouse at the Android Dungeon.
for a store that's selling merchandise worth hundreds of dollars, i think they were absolutely correct in reprimanding the customers - ESPECIALLY kids.
again, consumerist, i urge you to think a little more critically about your posts. your starting to make a point for the retailers and losing your credibility - it's not okay to waltz into a store, break their stuff, and run.
@mannyv: I'm not sure the piece of gum analogy really holds up. It's more like going into a car show room and putting on a body kit on the car. They altered the way the phone works.
It wasn't their property, it was four teenage boys, who usually are not up to any good when it comes to other people's technology. This is why high schools spend so much time locking down their lab computers.
The law is a little gray here because it really amounts to damaging the property but the law isn't quite there yet because the physical phone is unchanged but the software is changed.
There is no way that I would go with anyone who randomly ran up to me demanding I accompany them somewhere. I'd be running toward the nearest exit screaming for help at the top of my lungs that someone is trying to kidnap me -- but that's me personally. Store managers are not cops.
@Negative: All the kid indicated was that you need an intermediary to purchasing illegal substances. So now he knows too much about drug deals? That's a bit of a stretch don't you think? Most people, especially teenagers know that buying drugs may require jumping through some hoops, even the ones who don't use drugs.
WTF!? where does APPLE find these people? is this how they TRAIN them??
@chargernj: Um ok, wrong! Teens don't have to do anything but be teens to get drugs. Didn't you ever go to high school? Drugs find you, you don't find them. Besides @Negative was attempting to be humorus.
They had left the store and the manager and security guard made them return and help them for two hours? That my friends is a nice juicy false imprisonment suit. Even if they had been suspected of shoplifting, there's a very narrow window of time when you may detain a suspect after exiting the store.
Chasing someone that's down the block already, because of mischief (it's not vandalism because it's not permanent), making them return, and holding them for two hours is criminal behavior in itself.
help=held
That kid seems to know more about drug deals then he should.