How I Got Commerce To Refund $45 In Cycle Service Charge Fees
Yesterday I walked away from Commerce Bank victorious: my entire balance in my wallet, my fees reversed, and my account closed. I had an account there that I just sort of kept as a "money in a book" account. You know, you hide money in a book on your shelf so you forget about it and one day when you really need some extra scratch you realize, hey wait, I've got that money in a book. Except this way I wouldn't run the risk of forgetting which book it was. In retrospect I realize that was kind of a half-stupid, half-smart idea. That's how I roll. Another way I roll is a little policy called, "You don't get to steal my money."
I was told that after Commerce merged with TD Banknorth, they inherited TD's policy of a $100 minimum balance on checking accounts. If you go under that, you get a $15 cycle service charge. About 3 months ago they started assessing it on my account. I went in. Commerce swears they sent me a notice about the change and I swear just as hard that I never got one. I get $30 back. Four days later I deposit enough to bring the account over $100. Safe, right? This month I got hit with another cycle service charge. Ready photon torpedoes.
I go in to the branch and ask the customer service rep to reverse the charge. She says she can't because I already got the other fees waived and their policy is to only waive one. The customer service rep informs me that if your account goes under $100, even for a second, you will get charged a $15 fee. This is a many-layered fee onion, it seems.
I insist on the fee reversal. She says she'll ask her manager. I see her stick her head in the back door from which up to now intermittent laughter has been emanating. She comes back and says he says no. I ask to speak to the manager. He comes over and I ask for the fee to be waived again. Naturally, he resists and go through the same thing about how they sent me the letter and it was my fault for not monitoring things and keeping the balance over $100.
I tell him, "I don't have a problem keeping up with the account or with putting enough money in it. I have $135 in my wallet from depositing my piggy bank in your Penny Arcade. What I have a problem with is getting hit with fees I never heard about." I then push the point that the last time we went through the fee reversal song and dance would have been a great time to tell me that unless I deposited more money right that second I was going to get hit with yet another cycle service charge. "Why didn't anyone tell me this," I ask. "Where is the consideration for customer service? All I'm getting is indifference on the part of Commerce and your employees. Is this a bank, or just a fee processing center?"
"We're not a fee processing center," the manager says, slightly taken aback. He tiptaps at the account, ruminating, "...I don't understand why they didn't tell you about this the last time you were here..."
Seeing my opening, an admission of fallibility, I lunge for it and say, "Me neither! Now we are one the same page! Now you see my problem with your customer service failure."
He says, "Ok, we can refund the fee, but I have to warn you, because your account went under this month, you're going to get another fee next billing cycle," he says. "Why don't you move it into the blah blah blah account? This way you only pay $3 a month instead of getting the cycle service charges."
That does it. I've had it with Commerce. "A book doesn't charge me $3 a month," I reply, "for the favor it is doing me of letting me give it my money which increases its capital reserves and it can use to make loans off of. No, I tell you what we're going to do. We're going to refund this fee, and then we're going to close the account and I'm taking all my money out."
"I don't understand don't you just get the blah blah blah account..."
"And who knows what other fee you'll come up with tomorrow. No. It's over. We had a good run, and now it's over and I want my money back and I will put it in one of my many other accounts which don't charge me fees just to put money in a box."
"Ok, we can do that," he says.
After I get my envelope from the customer service rep and get up to leave she shrugs her shoulders and says, "Sorry." "That's ok," I say, "it's just a business transaction." Total time, 15 minutes. Definitely worth the $15 and avoiding getting charged yet another $15 and who knows what other fees down the line. On the way out, I have one of their lollipops, glad to be eating the sucker instead of being one. My only regret is that the hidden camera I was using this as a test run for didn't work.
MORAL OF THE STORY:
- Examine each statement and bill you get each month for new fees and policy changes.
- If the level one person says no, ask for a manager.
- Even if they say the manager says no, ask to speak to the manager personally.
- When negotiating your position, insist, restate, and hold firm. Victory goes to the persistent.
(Photo: the prodigal untitled13)
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Comments:
Ahhh, THAT'S why they started charging $15 if your account balance is under $100. I thought I was going crazy--they never sent me a notice, either. So glad I'm not with them anymore.
"After Commerce merged with TD Banknorth, they inherited TD's policy of a $100 minimum balance on checking accounts."
*blinks* when did TD come up with a policy to charge you $15 for not having more than $100 in your checking account? I've never been charged such and my account is almost always empty, except right before it's time to send the bills out.
Maybe they meant "savings" account in the article, in which case i'd almost believe that, since they tried to get me to sign up for the $3 a month maintenance fee savings account. I basically looked at them and said, "Now wait a minute... you want to charge me to keep my money with you so you can make more money on it and play with it?"
And they basically saids, "Uhhh... yes."
"You've got to be crazy!" Was my general response and which is why I currently don't bother with a savings account.
It's sad that some of the brick-and-mortar banks are starting to do this. You gots to charge fees if you wants to get paid.
Loan margins are thin and depositors are ever more demanding. Fees are the last bastion of income for the traditional bank*
*work for one, but don't bank with one...
@exkon: Don't worry, I have an actual emergency fund in an online savings account equivalent to 3 months worth of expenses.
Good for you. To this day I can't understand the logic of charging to store your money, which benefits the bank anyway. With interest rates at an all-time low, when you factor in all the different service charges, unless you keep thousands in a savings account its really smarter to keep your money anywhere but a bank!
I just joined a Credit Union yesterday.........bye bye Bank of America
Is this only on certain types of checking accounts? I have a free student account with Commerce that I usually only keep $100 in, but this month and last month it's dipped below that amount, and I haven't been hit with the fee.
My fiance, however, has been hit by it. We're closing his personal account.
I just had the same discussion with Commerce. I thought the fee was about your average daily balance, not some, "you-have-next-to-nothing, so-let's-take-some of that-fee."
I'll miss Commerce, but if they're going to be like this, I'm outie.
Bottom line, the fee had its desired result - it got you to leave, which is what the bank wanted anyway. Accounts that small just aren't worth the trouble of maintaining.
@Ben Popken: Thanks for clearing that up.
I don't have an account I don't touch, but I have a linked savings account that all I do is deposit money into, would that be okay?
I guess the only problem with that would be the temptation of using it.
Check Cashing Services FTW!
...
Totally joking. That's 100 ft pole territory.
Well, I just got off of the phone with my local TD and they claim there's no such thing as this $15 fee. They said "nope ma'am, you have simply free checking, no minimum balance, no fees, unlimited check writing etc etc". I wonder if these people have a specific type of checking account then?
The worst fees I ever saw were in Italy in 1993. I was in the Air Force and when my tour was up I went to close my account at the National Bank of Bresha. There was 45,000 lira ($30 or so) in the account when I went to close it.
The closing fee was 50,000 lira! I had to give them about $5 to close the account!
I could have just gone to the AMT and zero the account out and got on my plane, but that would have been illegal and some day I'd like to go back to Italy and visit without any hassels.
Commerce did the same thing to me, but with an extra twist. I wanted to close my account, so I let it get down to $9 and then called to close it. I was told that I had to have a $0 balance in order to close it. (I was also told to get it down to $0 "and then wait a couple days to be sure", whatever that means.) So I used my new checking account (USAA!) to transfer the $9 out of the Commerce account into the new account.
It took 2 days for Commerce to process the transfer... so while it was pending, they charged me $15 for having a balance below $100. (Which brought my balance down to -$6.)
Then, the next day when they processed the $9 transfer, they charged me $35 for having insufficient funds for the transfer.
So I ended up with a -$50 balance.
I called Commerce, and didn't even start off being polite - I basically said, "You told me that I had to have a zero balance to close my account. So I tried to get it down to zero, and now you've charged me $50 for not having enough money in my account." I think I sounded enraged enough that it only took 2 more calls to get them to agree to refund the fees and close the account. :-)
I understood that my "NY Yes Checking" (what Commerce calls "Free Checking" here in New York) had no minimum requirements for the first year and $100 afterwards.
This really is one of the few times I wish that TD Banknorth's policy will actually replace Commerce's policy on checking accounts. Definitely wouldn't mind having no minimum balance requirements and ATM reimbursements. But of course, that's not going to happen... or if it does, it won't happen without some MAJOR sacrifices
I had the EXACT same problem with Commerce, no notification, no nothing. They kept telling me I had to come into the branch to figure it out. I live 3200 miles from the nearest branch. I would love to close this account but I can't right now. Two more months and then I can close it.
@Neecy: Because if you didn't charge, people would hold tiny balances and the bank could actually lose money on overhead on your $10 account balance. Just mailing you a statement every month outweighs the benefit the bank gets from that money.
I certainly didn't get this notification. Of course my account has not gone below $100 but these fees are ridiculous.
Commerce/TD: You are hereby warned. I promise you that within 24 hours of getting hit by any bullshit fee, I will be gone. But I'll keep using the penny arcade as much as possible. That will fix your wagon.
@A.W.E.S.O.M.-O: I do want to point out that I'm not trying to justify a $15 charge on balances below $100; that's ridiculous. Maybe $1, I could understand.
I say this in ever bank thread. But it bears repeating. Charles Schwab Bank ([www.schwab.com])
FTW!
Every other bank/credit union/etc FTL! :(
More power to you. I got hit with these fees on the account I keep for stuff like coffee runs and impulse purchases - i.e. the balance is nearly always below $100, and I keep the bulk of my money in a joint account with my husband.
I called Commerce customer service and spoke to a woman who couldn't do anything, but agreed to transfer me to her supervisor. Then she hung up on me.
I called back. Spoke to a nice man who also said he couldn't do anything, but agreed to transfer me to his supervisor.
I told my story, which is roughly the same one as the poster here - I noticed the "cycle service fees" on my account for about three months back, they said they sent me a letter, I knew I never got it. I had gone to the branch, did the song and dance about changing to a different account, and thought that change had gone through. It did not.
Between all these transfers, I was treated to a long Muzak-ed message talking about how Commerce is "the customer service bank."
And the supervisor said he'd refund one of my fees, then hung up on me. Except he didn't - I could hear him, clear as day, telling someone nearby that I was a liar and was trying to bilk Commerce.
Good times. I called back and got him reprimanded. I'm changing banks very soon. It's been a great three years, Commerce.
TD doesn't charge $15 if your Checking goes below $100, nor does it charge $15 on Savings. Fact checking people...
Here's what happened:
A.) Your checking is over a year old and the promo period ran out (YES Checking = free for one year)
or
B.) You're over 24 or 25 (don't remember the age) and you're no longer considered a student
Not trying to justify the fee but call it like it is.
SimplyFree® Checking
* $25 minimum initial deposit to open account
* No minimum monthly balance
* No monthly maintenance fee
* No monthly fee for eBillPay
@azntg: The Yes Checking account is what incurs the fees if your account is below $100. It's the "Consumer" account where you are charged $3 a month for the privilege of having no minimum balance.
My main emergency fund is in my online savings account too, but I have a few hundred in my brick bank savings account. Teeny tiny interest of course, but it's overdraft protection and/or very quick money, if randomly needed.
@A.W.E.S.O.M.-O: Yeah, I don't have a problem with a minimum balance fee that acts as a bozo filter, but I hate that banks use fees as a revenue stream and play "Gotcha!" with their customers.
And this approach is one of the reasons why we have a credit crisis right now - when fees that are supposed to be punitive and a deterrent become a major source of income, high-risk clients and irresponsibility suddenly become more attractive.
@LoSpaz: That's pretty insane. Granted, $3 a month wouldn't put a dent in my lifestyle, but how ass backwards is it to pay a fee so you can avoid a fee?
ING Direct - 3% interest on Savings, 1.74% interest on CHECKING (woo hoo!), virtually no fees (the only fees are if you do something wrong, like overdrafting your account).
Everyone here sings the praises of credit unions so I looked for one this weekend. I downloaded their "schedule of fees" and it's worse than anything Bank of America has ever tried to charge me. How does this benefit me or my community?
Stop Payment $27.00 (per item)
Non-Sufficient Funds $27.00 (per item)
Courtesy Pay $27.00 (per item)
Deposited Items Returned/Recleared $10.00 (each)
Overdraft Transfer $2.00
Inaccurate Address $5.00 (per month)
Dormant Account $5.00 (per month)
Early Account Closure $10.00
Account Research $20.00 (per hour) $1.50 (per copy)
Statement Copy $1.50 (per statement)
Check Copies $1.50 (per check)
Cashier's Check $5.00 (per check)
Excessive Withdrawal $2.00
Garnishments/Executions/Levies $50.00
Checking Account $2.50 (per month)
Platinum Account $10.00 (when balance falls below minimum $1,000) (per month)
Prime Share Minimum Charge $5.00 (when balance falls below $25) (per month)
ATM Withdrawal Fee $1.00 (Foreign and Non-CO-OP ATM)
Bill Payment $4.95 (per month)
Card Replacement $5.00 (ATM/Debit/Credit) (per card)
This kind of bullshit is exactly why I will NEVER again open a bank account. Over the weekend last year I withdrew $200, and made a few small purchases with my debit card. The ATM said there was over $350 in the account, yet on my next statement I was almost $400 overdrawn. Why? They cleverly timed the transactions so that the $350 went in just AFTER the withdrawals, so they could charge me almost $200 in repeating overdraft fees. It was a Chase account, BTW. Their explanation was that since the deposit had taken place on a friday(friday MORNING at like 7am), my funds were not actually available till monday. I then asked why all my transactions had gone through with no problems(if there was no money the card would always just be declined), they started sputtering and told me that my debit card works like a plastic check(Ha!), and the ATM networks are down on the weekends so my card had no way of knowing there was no money in the account. They also told me that even though the ATM showed a positive balance before I spent any money, the money was "not really there yet". Fast forward a week later. I made a $200 deposit to try & bring the negative balance up a bit, yet it didn't move. They basically just took my money & didn't apply it to the account. I still tried to work it out with them, and they kept insisting all the charges were valid & they couldn't tell me where my $200 went. So I laughed in their faces, told them I will NEVER pay these illegitimate charges & to suck it, and walked out.
Fuck banks. My lockbox under my bed has never been closed after 5, it has never charged me a fee to take money out, it has never let me take out more money than I have in it & then charged me outlandish fees, and it has never refused to give me my own money or given me snarky attitude. I really see NO point to banking at all! Why do people even bother with banks anymore???
good for you!
there's no reason these banks should get away with sneaky charges!
@Yurei: Savings accounts are pretty much a terrible deal for the customer. You get lots more fees, and weird conditions like only being able to do 3 transactions per month, and for that hassle, you get like .09% interest. That will hardly keep up with inflation.
@kabuk1: For one, you're essentially losing money if your money isn't growing. And if you travel (or even go to the mall), it's nice to not to be carrying cash that you might risk losing or being robbed.
@ludwigk: Yeah, I've moved most of my surplus to ING Orange - it's still not enough to keep up with inflation, but hey, better than my investments over the past 6 months.
I keep $1,500 in savings for emergencies and to stay above the minimum balance.
I'm confused - my bank is Commerce and there has ALWAYS been a $100 minimum balance requirement. The first year is free - then after that you need to keep $100 in there. It's been that way for the 5 years I've been banking with them. Nothing at all to do with the new merge.
Now, I think it's ridiculous that it's not a combined balance, because I do keep way more than $100 in my savings account which is tied to the checking, but whatever. Still the point is that nothing has changed.
As for the credit unions, they do vary. We have one in a city credit union and the fees are outrageous, but then we have one in my husband's local union credit union and the fees are much better. :)
@PeteyNice: Backed 100%.
Charles Schwab is the best company I have ever done business with (i think). Never had any problem, what so ever.
"@LoSpaz: That's pretty insane. Granted, $3 a month wouldn't put a dent in my lifestyle, but how ass backwards is it to pay a fee so you can avoid a fee? "
That's the concept behind insurance.
Commerce has always had that under $100 fee. They waive it the first year to lure people in. As of your 13th month with the account open, the fee is assessed even if the account falls to $99.99 for a second during that cycle. All this is in those papers you get when you open an account that most people throw out, or file somewhere in their desk drawer. I work for one of Commerce's competitors, and we use this to steal their customers since my bank never charges a minimum balance fee. However, whenever you open an account at any bank, ask for an updated fee schedule and go over it carefully before you sign your signature card, and ask questions if anything is worded in "bank lingo."
"On the way out, I have one of their lollipops, glad to be eating the sucker instead of being one."
I almost spit out the water I was drinking when I read this line. Awesome! My credit union doesn't have lollipops :-(
@grebby: I might ask, does this credit union have a name? Just like there's more than one bank, there's more than one credit union. In fact, there's a whole industry of them.
I work for Commerce Bank. It's very simple--there is no perfect bank for everybody. Commerce Bank does not require direct deposit for a free checking account (like some banks do), only that you keep $100 in your account every day. If that is an onerous requirement, then look for another bank. If the extended banking hours (from 7:30 AM to 8PM M-F, 7:30 AM to 6 PM on Saturday, and EVERY Sunday from 11 AM to 4 PM), 24 hour live US-based English-speaking customer service, Penny Arcade (free coin sorter, whether you are a customer or not), focus on community involvement (including teaching personal finance to tens of thousands of students every year for free), next day availability of funds on deposited checks, fee-free payroll check cashing, free online banking, ATMs that sell postage stamps, dog-friendly stores, free kids accounts, free student accounts, passbook accounts, holiday accounts, free pens & lollipops & dog biscuits, convenient locations and open layout, public restrooms, 4 lane drive-throughs, a banking day that goes until 6 PM, being open on most bank holidays--if none of that is worth $100, then you are not getting a good value for your money, and you might be happier at a different bank that would give you even more than that for your generous $100 commitment. Honestly, if you're not keeping $100 in your checking account then your main banking relationship and loyalty is elsewhere anyway. Good luck to you in search of greener pastures.
@NYBanker: And if your customer service measured up to all these benefits in the slightest, I'd still stick with you.
Yeah, NY Banker after dealing with the people on the phone who had no clue where Seattle, WA was, I find some of your claims dubious. ESPECIALLY when they kept telling me I was notified about this new cycle charge when I most certainly was not, AND I log into my Commerce online account almost daily, and there was NEVER any mention of it. Where is this mysterious letter you guy claimed you sent out that none of us seem to have received? I have been a client for years and there WAS NEVER any fee for a low balance.
You can keep your stinkin' lollipops.
Oh, AND I deposited enough money THE DAY I was told about the fee, and then I got hit with it again, anyway! What the hell?
Sorry - I have to agree with NY Banker... I've had a Commerce checking account (or two) for years and years. There has always been a $100 minimum balance. The fee started at $10 years ago, and is up to $12-$15 now...
Did I get screwed because of this? Yes. Did I learn my lesson? Yes. Do I still have a Commerce account? Yes! I know what the rules are and fell below the minimum balance, and stayed there, and auto-withdraws pushed me below $0, which incurred more fees... My own fault, and I don't blame them. At the time I wasn't happy with the nearly $100 in fees (over the course of a few months), but I knew the rules and didn't follow them.
Quit bitching about minimum balance fees. Switch to TD and enjoy no minimum balance, but lose the long bank hours and other perks. These fees are not new, have nothing to do with the TD merge, and have always been posted.
Get over it.
Credit union. Credit union. Credit union.
Did I mention Credit Union?
I'm curious, this person had a "book" of less than $100?
Seems like a laughable amount during this day and age.