Um yeah... some people like their oligopoly to be maintained. So back off!

If he gets inspected and declared clean, then cool by me. Even better if I can watch him cut the meat. Butchering is an amazing art.

How are consumers equipped to determine the safety of meat?

I'm pretty anti-bureaucracy, but I'm pretty for a food safety agency.

I think the consumer should decide if they want to drink raw milk, for example. This country bans some of the world's best foods such as jamon iberico from Spain.

On the surface this looks like a question of safety but the larger issue is one of the gov't using regulations to PROTECT big business. So not sure how I feel. Don't want dirty meat, don't want tax dollars spent on protecting established big business from the little guy.

sigh.

Amen, people think the government needs to babysit over everything that happens in this country. While I wouldn't particularly buy meat without some kind of inspection, I think it should still be the consumer's choice and not a government regulated mandate.

People like this I really don't have a problem with. Anyone who is open and honest about their intentions, save for possible incompetence or stunning naivete, is probably scrupulous enough to run a clean outift.

Unfortunately, these laws are only useful against the people who are not so forthcoming, and try to sell their product out he back door, ala Upton Sinclair. Or maybe this guy. [www.healthinspections.com]

I'm not okay with unpasteurized milk or uninspected beef, but selling jam or pies seems fine with me.

@ADismalScience: That's not so much the issue; the issue is that the rules to run a butchery are so onerous that it pushes all but the biggest players out of business. There's no reason small or individual butcheries COULDN'T be inspected regularly, except that the government puts rules in place that only the very largest companies can afford.

I read his article by the same title ages ago ... loved it!

@ADismalScience: Judging from recent history, it looks like consumers would do no worse than the officials who are supposed to be overseeing the process, whether government or corporate.

"The attitude is: The only thing that is safe to eat is something with a government stamp on it, unless you get it free. Exchange money, and it's somehow not safe."

oh how poetic. a real free thinker we've got here.

i believe that if you request at certain thing, like raw milk, you should get it at your own risk. if that butcher has customers who want things done in a particular way, then he should be allowed to sell it that way at the customer's own risk.

for mass production or for the main market, things should be done by law.

Safety of meat -- I don't live in California, but I can't recall how many times I've heard about Jack in the Box serving tainted burgers. What about that big meat recall that resulted in a national company going bankrupt? I think that when we lost our local butcher, we lost true accountability.

erm WHAT. i had no idea that was a law. I understand that their is a need to make sure we are safe (ahhh mad cow oh noooo) and all, but have we all seriously gone this far with the government? i find this ludicrous. soon we will have laws that effectively eliminate any small business, or make them subject to immediate absorption by larger business. "OH you are selling your own furniture? lovingly crafted by someone who took a lifetime to learn his craft? MIGHT HAVE SPLINTERS!! we must protect America's bottoms."

its small things like this that make me want to get out of this country while the government still 'allows' us ("too much terrorism in other countries! not safe for pwecious!)

"Exchange money, and it's somehow not safe."

Okay, the farmer is almost certainly one of the good guys. But there are SO MANY bad guys out there, and they come out of the woodwork the instant money is involved.

I'd bet that the same month this farmer is legally allowed to start selling exquisite (and perfectly safe) meat, several similar operations will open up selling very questionable meat (and operate under the same guise).

Is the government arguing that safety is in fact the issue? I mean, you see the same seemingly bizarre logic when it comes to prostitution: the act itself is ok as long as there's no money exchanged.

If you let just anybody start selling pieces of meat, it would cause all sorts of problems. People who don't know what they're doing will suddenly start selling meat. You can make people very very sick if you don't slaughter animals properly.

I'm from the Charlottesville are. There are many "transplants" to the area who would fancy themselves farmers and make a HUGE mess. Harder to do damage trying to grow veggies. :)

@B:

So don't buy raw milk or un-inspected meat, simple as that. Nobody is suggesting that the entire market of dairy and meats go unregulated, but it's a little ridiculous to say that a sensible person, aware of the potential risks, should be denied the ability to purchase those products.

One of the largest responsibilities in the recent push for local, homegrown, sustainable, small farm, etc. etc. is to make yourself informed about your sources. It is, inherently, a "buyer beware" scenario because Big Brother isn't there to "be informed" for you. Although I would seriously question how well-protected we really are.

BTW...jams and jellies, prepared in an unsanitary manner, can be pretty bad for you too!

Since he is selling his food, and I can tell you what he sells is legit and of high quality, as organic, all natural food, then perhaps its time for the organizations that promote this type of food to step up with their seal of approval on anyone that can meet their requirements. What is interesting is farm raised seafood is not under these type of Federal restrictions so stores such as Whole Food are part of an association that inspects and monitors their suppliers. Seems like this could be the solution in this case also. The big guys will fight it, but given we have Democrats in Congress and soon to have Obama as President, coupled with the meat industry sucking, this might just be politically viable.

It's all about quality control I guess. Not that I trust the gov to have good standards, but it's better than nothing.

But I guess we can run random inspections too.

If I remember correctly the government can't inspect local slaughter houses do to lack of funds and such. So let the guy sell. It's probably safer than what the food corporations sell

@ConsumptionJunkie: But that's not because it's bad for you, but rather because it has the potential to spread bad stuff about the USA.

Do what civilized people do and give up meat altogether.

@B: I'm not okay with unpasteurized milk or uninspected beef

Then don't buy it. That's the beauty of a free country, you don't have to buy it. I don't know why you people feel the need to deny ME the right to buy it, though. Honestly, what the hell do you care?

Here's an idea: If a guy is selling bad meat, he's going to make his customers sick. Ergo, they're going to quit buying from him and he won't be able to make money. So he has a vested interest in making sure his products are safe, don't you think? Enough of an interest to take proactive steps to sell safe food. Especially considering he's almost certainly feeding his food to his own family.

Fact is, more people get sick eating food from the big, inspected, so called "safe" conglomerates than they do eating from local family farms. More people get sick from fast food restaurants than the fly by night taco truck vendor guys.

I say, leave the American people alone. Let the customer decide what he wants to buy and let the producer sell whatever he likes. But that will never happen, unfortunately, because we're not really a free country. Not even close.

@sketchy: Go away, stupid vegan. If you were truly civilized, you wouldn't harass others about personal choices that don't affect you.

I think the big problem with removing inspection requirements is that it would be very difficult to create legislation that would allow small producers to sell their uninspected product, while not allowing Safeway to sell uninspected product, which would come from someone a whole lot less loving and caring. A nice small scale producer might never cut corners that would make their meat dangerous, but big conglomerates do it now, even with inspections. If they could legally sell meat without inspection (and people would buy it if it were a few cents a pound cheaper), things would undoubtedly be even worse than they are now.

One possible compromise might be to allow direct sale of uninspected meat -- the farming family can sell it, via personal delivery or from a farm shop, directly to customers, but no middlemen allowed.

Personally, I prefer my E. Coli to be fresh from the farm.

The idea that we forgo government inspections on beef and other farm products for the family farmer is ludicrous. If someone wants to GIVE away their meat, whatever, but it is the government duty to regulate commerce and when you start selling products it is a government's duty to insure their safety. The potential for disease and death if every local farmer started his own meat factory is far too high.

If you want your own non-factory farm meat, buy a steer and have someone slaughter it.

And I thought from the title this was going to be about a farmer wanting to grow something that would benefit society, like hemp and marijuana.

@duonexus: Exactly! And for everyone who places their faith in the government's support of factory farmed, big business meat-related items, please refer to the article on how nobody seems to know anything about Taco Bell's mystery meat. I would much rather be able to know where my food came from.

@pigeonpenelope: I agree.

My mom and her husband buy meat exclusively from Polyface. It's so funny to see them mentioned here. Their beef is fabulous!!

Issues like this boil down to a simple question: do you think people are stupid, and should be mollycoddled, or do you think people can be educated to make their own decisions?

I'd say, let people do as they like, within reason. If people are educated, the market will keep things straight. People won't buy meat from sources that aren't verified as safe, and problem is solved. Buyer beware, and all that good stuff.

I think the government has been taking responsibility for a lot of things that it shouldn't, and has been lacking in a lot of things that it should.

@deserthiker: The variant of e-coli that makes us crazy sick didn't exist before the 1980's; it's a byproduct of government regulation. Cows fed grass (as opposed to grains) don't get that form of e-coli. But because our farm policy favors large, factory farm operations, farms like Polyface have a hard go.

@AlexDitto: the problem is, if you look at the history of the dairy industry, for example, the market didn't keep things straight. A lot of people got sick and died because people were less than scrupulous; and because so many people were unscrupulous people's choices were either starve or take a chance. They had to take a chance. We need smarter regulation (like Connecticut has with raw milk) that favors smaller (environmentally and people friendlier) farms and move away from the ginormous agrobusiness that has become the norm. Also. When meat is recalled (always voluntary) that tainted meat can be cooked and put into canned meat products; so that ground beef that people can't eat might just make its wait into your chef boyardee. yum.

@AlexDitto: Ya I feel the same way except... You need to remember its not a level playing field. On one hand you have 'average person' on the other hand you global conglomerate behemoths that spend hundreds of millions of dollars on psychologically backed advertising as well as hundreds of millions more in lobbying the govt to have the laws made to suit their needs. And remember if you believe in a free market, as you seem to do, they are not spending all that money to lose money. So that being said, though my natural instinct is to want the govt out of my buisness, frankly they're the only chance we have to keep from just being outright killed by these companies.

What comes to mind is that people need to remember WHY some of the laws were passed in the first place. Then, if they feel the reasons no longer apply, work to change them.

And however much people may like to believe that govt will always protect 'big business', it usually comes down to this: Every law had a purpose.

Bakers would add sawdust and ash and other...things...to bread to bulk it up. Not every baker, of course, but enough to where laws were passed.

Butchers would put sawdust and ...miscellaneous parts... into sausage. Not every butcher, but enough that laws were passed.

Is the system perfect? Of course not. Society has grown and changed in the time. In which case, work to improve the system, or find out what no longer applies. Are there still people who would cheat ... of course. We know that.

Read Pollan's book. He has a very clear explanation of the issue here. Briefly what it comes down to is that the agribusiness lobbies in Virginia control much of the legislative power, and they are very protective of their markets. The method they use here is to force Polyface and any similar farms to use a very specific abbatoir to butcher the meat. Salatin gets around the laws with his chicken by selling them whole, immediately after processing. These, the customer can cook or butcher at home. Cattle and hogs are not as simple a proposition.

Anyway, read Pollan's book.

What do you think of this?

I'd eat "unregulated beef" the same day I drink that "raw" (un-homogenized) milk... never. There's a reason why people have a longer life expectancy today than they did 100 years ago. Call it "better living through chemistry/'preservatives" or higher standards and regulations to keep potentially disease contaminated food out of your mouth.

its because if someone is selling it to you their interest is profit, not quality, whereas if they give it to you they dont really have in interest in anything, except possibly your wellbeing (a friend), or killing you (crazy person).

it seems pretty simple to me why you cant sell unregulated meat.

@MercuryPDX: How silly. For years we've bought all our beef by the cow. We have a local farmer who raises a cow for us and when it's nice and fat, he chops it up and sells it to us. The meat is delicious. I've never had anything quite so good. Never been sick, either.

We live longer today because of advances in technology, not because of government regulation.

@redkamel: its because if someone is selling it to you their interest is profit, not quality - I'll ask again, do you think food producers would stay in business if they made their customers sick? No, they wouldn't. Therefore they have a vested interest in producing safe meat regardless of laws and regulations. Not everyone trying to sell you something has some ulterior, scheming motive... most people really do want to sell the best quality they know how to produce. That's how they win, and keep, customers.

If I saw someone put his ax head into a fire and then lop off the head of a chicken without it touching anything else, and then put that chicken immediately into a cooler of ice, I would be willing to eat that chicken.

Of course, could I stomach eating it after having seen it killed in that way...?

Without wanting to sound like a conspiracy theory nut, I think this is one of the reasons the "avian flu epidemic" was so overhyped. Maybe the meat industry wanted to make people fearful of buying from anywhere except stores, and try to stop the selling of live animals be they fish or birds.

Buying a live animal and killing it yourself is probably one of the best ways to ensure it's not tainted by processing.

@jimconsumer: I refer to vegans and vegetarians like sketchy as PETAphiles.

I'm willing not to eat meat around vegetarians just as long as they don't criticize me for eating it elsewhere. Mutual respect is a wonderful thing.

Sell the whole cow, then slaughter it for the customer after they own it. Done, and done. Can't find a buyer for a whole cow? Organize a group buy first.

Pollan's book is really excellent, and this Polyface farm was one of the most interesting parts of the whole thing. It produces food with integrity and puts industrial meat producers to shame.

@kallawm: In regards to your comment: "If you let just anybody start selling pieces of meat, it would cause all sorts of problems. People who don't know what they're doing will suddenly start selling meat."

--I can't believe you think that renegade butchers would be roaming the countryside. Your premise is absolutely absurd. Why would anyone who doesn't know a t-bone from a cow's ass invest money in a butcher shop? Wouldn't a customer be able to spot a shady meat dealer like this?

As for certifying beef, you don't have to do it with tax dollars. If meat sellers used independent companies, like the organics do now, then you could trust their products.

@ConsumptionJunkie: After just one month of jamon iberico, 3 years ago, I am still sick of it.

And after seeing someone shot a pig at point blank, his family then shaving, cutting it up, and throwing it on a bbq, it made me, a veracious meat eater sick. I still ate it, but I felt bad. *Animal Lover*

And I bet not even a third of factory meat is government inspected...

@sketchy: Big ups, although the Polyface operation made me reconsider vegetarianism a little bit.

@sketchy: You know how long I've been waiting to do this?

i agree with him. There's too much regulation, too many laws. You cant do anything anymore without a permit, license or a fee.

My parents used to buy or beef from a neighboring farm where the guy raised his own cattle, slaughtered them himself & sold the meat privately.

IMO there are too many laws/regulations period. Beauracracy run amuck!

ANd for those saying if there wasnt regulation... every tom, dick & harry would start selling meat..... its up to the customer to know who they are buying from. I wouldnt buy from someone if I didnt know how they ran their business if a health risk is a concern.