This is predatory.

I wouldn't call it an 'error', technically they're in the right. But he's right, it's bullshit math, and it's done solely for the purpose of sticking it to the customer.

Basically holds get placed on funds when you buy certain things, particularly things like gasoline, rental cars, anything that's going to potentially be higher than an initial estimate. This is all above board, but does not appear anywhere in your check register or your online account, and that's why I think it's crap.

So the poor guy has no idea he's in this situation and spends as if, *shock*, he actually HAS THE MONEY THE SYSTEM TELLS HIM HE DOES.

BoA should refund all of those fees and should seriously reconsider it's reporting practices, although I believe almost all banks run a similar scheme.

This type of thing was a favorite habit of the Credit Union we used for a few years. (Yes, the almighty CREDIT UNION). We switched to First National, and haven't had a problem since.

I think its pretty obvious hit account got down to $50 from that screen shot. Who knows what he had pending.

You can't trust the online portion of bank websites to be 100% accurate when living paycheck to paycheck.

Key Bank switched to this ridiculous policy about a year ago, and I got hit with $68 in overdraft fees. Fortunately my local branch waived the fees for me, but it is still an absolutely absurd policy.

What I did, and what I might recommend you do, is to waive the "right" to overdraft. I'd much rather be embarasseed about my debit card getting declined at Starbucks than to be forced to pay $40 for a cup of coffee!

@aphex242: I don't think you understand what's going on here. He didn't buy any of those things you stated above, he bought coffee, a car wash and allergy drugs. His next cleared transaction is a deposit, so at no point did he have a negative balance. I think this is simply a bank error, plain and simple, that BOA refuses to admit.

Also, when my bank - ok, credit union - places a "hold" for a rental car, hotel, etc. it shows under my available balance, so I know not to spend it. In my previous BOA days I believe they did the same.

Why does anyone bank with these bastards? Use a credit card and be done with it. Bank ATMs are a very dangerous instrument. They are prone to silly fees and idenity theft!

@BlondeGrlz: I came in here to say what you said.

It's kind of bizarre that you only got out with half of the fees refunded, even though the branch manager realized the error and was sympathetic. My fiance just accidently paid her credit card using my account, overdrew me so that I incurred $196 in overdrafts when all my transactions from the previous 10 days all posted the same day as the CC transaction (which wouldn't have occurred if they didn't order transactions from highest to lowest). I called them up and instantly had $100 refunded.

they did this to me as well, not too long ago. the CSR's explanation over the phone made absolutely no sense, and the best i could come up with was they take every pending transation over 3 days and debit the largest stuff first so you are guaranteed to go into the negative if it is even remotely possible, even though i never showed that i had gone over on my statement UNTIL they charged me 2 overdraft fees, and then ANOTHER when i ACTUALLY went over when they charged the first 2. NOBODY would budge on any of it and i was explaining basic math to them. its like the system their automated "charge you fees" uses and the system the CSRs see and the system that is visible on your statement are all different, because the CSRs kindof knew why it happened, but not really, and therefore couldnt explain it to me, just that it was legit and i was supposed to take her word for it. yeah. right.

It sounds like after getting half the money stolen from him back, from the people who stole it, he is going to stay with BoA. If that is indeed the case then he is a fool.

BoA is REALLY gunning for worst company this year.

There is a day coming when the political climate in America will support the GOVERNMNENT cracking heads for stuff like this. And when it happens,(could be sooner than we think),these companies won't have anyone to blame but themselves for this kind of asshattery.

I for one,want some rough justice handed out to the Bank O' America- type companies out there (Uh, that would be most of them)

You " free market" advocates don't even bother flaming me. We have tried it your way for about 30 years now and people are tired of being raped by these giant companies.

@aphex242: problem is these days, there is NO justification for holds on 99% of what you purchase. Everything is instantaneous, taking at most 2-3 minutes to go back and forth between bank and purchaser. Holds are meant for those things that have potential to be more (a hotel room, where the price quoted doesnt include stuff like watching the bad porn on TV) but banks more and more are using it for things that have a finite amount like gas where you KNOW exactly how much is charged right then and there, with the expectation of screwing customers out.

Worse is that banks have no issue charging you overbalance fees based on
timing of transactions, but refuse to allow a customer to game the exact
same system they in fact are gaming. BoA did this to me once and I was
livid, they cashed my checks EXACTLY right so that my checks cleared
BEFORE my paycheck despite all 3 being EXACTLY the same day and my
paycheck being direct deposited (and thus electronically they knew it
was official and cant play the it takes a few days to clear game)

The only reason I still use them is the website. The MINUTE my credit
union gets their web based accounting finished, I'm closing my BoA
account and going back to my credit union for all of my needs, as
opposed to just using it as a savings account.

Wachovia uses the same "time machine." I got hit for double overdraft fees in a similar situation. Fortunately for me, Wachovia was willing to waive both after I got a live person on the line and walked her through the spurious logic at play. Maybe he should switch to Wachovia (and no, I don't work for them).

i had the SAME thing happen to me on two accounts and spent over an hour on the phone with a CSR (hey, i wanted my money's worth). basically, they are right but online banking does NOT reflect this new (and absurd policy). they base the charges on pending payments so if you have a pending charge and something clears then they charge an overdraft... even if you have money in your account when the pending charge clears. the whole thing is ridiculous and with debit cards, next to impossible for the customer to manage.

anyway. solution? i closed all three of my bank of america accounts and closed my credit card with them. f them.

oh and the funny thing -- i asked the CSR if they were getting a lot of calls about this and she sighed and said a "few". reading between the lines, she thought it was crazy too.

@Snarkysnake: I don't think you'll find any "free market advocates" supporting Bank of America's methodical fraud.

I'll give you 9/10 for effort.

Are you certain those fees are not for checks that are being returned? Your transfer posted on Wednesday the 28th. If you had 3 checks trying to clear on Tuesday the 27th the fees would post the next day (the 28th) as that is the day they would be returned. I just don't think that the phone CSR really knew what was going on if checks are involved.

If checks were not involved this is totally bogus as you have stated. The Account Executive should have then reversed all of the fees due to this is a bank error and not a customer error at all. They are under a lot of pressure not to do courtesy fee reversals but this is a bank error so that you should have gotten all of the money bank once you brought this to their attention.

Try calling again and don't mention the fees you have already had reversed. You may get someone who understands that customer service is there for when the company has wronged their customers. Good luck.

@Snarkysnake: I'm for free market, bu t this is fraud.

If bank's employee does not understand explanation, it's fraud.

Doesn't BofA do some kind of weird thing where they process all debits before deposits? If so i am not doing the math as i am bouncing between this and work but would that cause the account anomaly?

@zingbot: Contact the FDIC. That'll get BoA's attention.

Why do people get hit with overdraft fees? Either use a credit card or keep a higher balance in your checking account. I think this particular guy just got burnt playing too close to the fire.

I love how people are quick to blame the bank for a person's poor management and misunderstanding of their finances.

@Rando:
You call that justification? A customer shouldn't have to pay overdraft fees because of the bank's inability to provide accurate information about their bank account.

This kind of crap is exactly why i don't use debit cards. I have one visa with a rearwards program that is my everyday expense card I carry 40 bucks cash for little 1-2 dolor stuff and places that don't take plastic everything else goes on visa. Then the visa gets paid off 100% at end of month. I have separate low interest cards i carry for stuff that I need to pay over time.

@junkmail: I had the same problem with the local SECU. They wound up dinging me for nearly $300 because the companies that wanted the money resubmitted and they called it "bounced check fee". Funny part, I had nearly 20k in a savings account with the same CU. Its with a different CU now, which doesnt have a nearby branch, but is so much better.

@mobilehavoc: I love how quick you are to blame the consumer for not keeping track of his money. $59.50 is not ZERO no matter what you say, Mr. Judgy McJudgypants. If he has one cent in his account he shouldn't incur any overdrafts fees. I'm sorry thats so hard to see from up there in your crystal palace of virtue.

@mobilehavoc: What are you, retarded? Where do you see a 0$ balance in this statement? Or you flunked 1st grade math?

If bank's OWN employee does not understand where charges come from, then it's fraud.

Since the last time I checked with my credit union, 59$ does not equal negative amount. Go troll somewhere else.

I'm still confused. I understand the bank used creative math, but I still can't see where the total of any of these number is below zero. Help?

Also, remember this one?
[consumerist.com]

@GreatCaesarsGhost: That's not creative math, there is no such thing as a time machine.

after being charged $35 x 6 (yes, six) = $210 in overdraft fees when i made a miscalculation on my wamu checking account and spent (read: transaction approved) about $10 over six transactions "in the negative" AT A USPS STAMP KIOSK(!) i stopped using my debit card. i use the credit card for all purchases, online and otherwise, and use the checking account to pay the credit card online (this is where you have to remain disciplined) and for the two checks a year i write to my HOA.

Having once upon a time been a trainer and a supervisor in a BoA call center, I have seen this a ton of times.

There is in fact two parts to a Visa system (credit) style transaction, the initial hold, when the transaction is first established, and the final validation of the transaction, which happens sometime later, and when I mean sometime later it can be months, which can cause some huge problems. This is when the transaction "clears". This process is truly painful to try to watch from a website.

If you are in a situation where you run pretty close to the edge in your bank account, use quicken or even just a checkbook, you will be amazed at how often your balance will differ from your bank's website

There are a couple easy ways to avoid even needing to deal with this situation, one of which is using a credit card (and paying it off each month of course). The other is to use your PIN number for purchases. When you run the card as "debit" it uses the ATM network to process the transaction in one immediate step. From your side you will just see the transaction clear the first night it is on hold.

Finally for those of you who will invariably bring up the fact that some places do no offer debit transactions, or charge a fee to run a card that way, I suggest paying cash, or paying for the convenience of plastic.

Dude, three words: small claims court.

Guarantee you will get your money back. Corps have to be represented by an attorney in small claims, so they will end up having to send someone at $300 an hour to secure $50. Even if you lose, you won, by wasting their money. They clearly don't mind having customers that are enemies, so play ball and try to waste as much money of their as possible.

This is a reason to never use credit card affiliated check cards. When you use a credit card, a hold gets placed against your available credit. When you use a check card, a hold gets placed against your available balance. The kicker: these holds usually have some arbitrary expiration time (24-48 hours). Even after you complete the initial purchase, the hold can remain. Some banks will show these temporary holds as a debit, many do not.

Not saying this is your fault, but when you mix credit cards and checking accounts, bad things happen. Stick to a simple ATM card, and this problem goes away. Also, if you charge a lot, get a decent cash-back card and simply pay your bill off each month.

Many banks also offer account features like automatic transfer from your savings to your checking if you go over by accident. And honestly, you need to have more than $40-$50 (or $440) at your disposal. Quit buying overpriced coffee and save your money.

This is crap. I use 5/3, and while by no means are they saints, they don't do this crap. If something is pending, I receive that information, and am shown an actual balance, an available balance, AND any pending transactions and how my balance looks with them included. This makes it obvious whether I have the money or not. Hiding that information while still counting it is deception, pure and simple.

As much as most people here swear by debit cards, this type of situation is why I avoid using mine like the plague.

If you are able to use a credit card responsibly (ie., don't buy things you can't afford and pay it off in full every month, something I recognize not everyone can do), there is no reason not to use it instead of your debit card. Holds placed on a credit card won't get you socked with overdraft fees the way holds placed on a debit card will if you're anywhere remotely near a zero balance.

That said, in this particular case I do think BoA is being unreasonable since you did transfer money in, they just dragged their feet on crediting it to your account in an effort to earn themselves the highest possible fees.

Although I agree that these charges seem bogus, nearly all of these problems can be avoided by leaving a buffer of a few hundred dollars in your account.

Everyone who reads this site by now should know that banks use these byzantine methods of computing overdrafts and if they can nab you they're going to try to nab you.

@loudguitars: Um, welcome to this site? People here hate debit cards and love credit cards. Responsible credit card usage is a boon to true consumerist, as it builds credit, pays bonus/miles and provides a ton of extra fraud and consumer protection over a credit card.

@Tracy Ham and Eggs: Over a debt card..

From my past experience banks charge fee's the moment you go over, even if the charge hasn't shown up yet(can't see the dates on the pending purchases) pending still gets overdrafted the moment you charged it to your debit card there wasn't money in your account. not a check you can't float these. if the two pending purchases were made on 5/27 then yep, your overdrawn

Forget the debit cards v. credit cards debate for brick-and-mortar transactions. How about good old cash? There's no possibility of an overdraft and no danger of spending more than you can afford.

I had the same thing happen to me resulting in 6 OD fees. Even though, only one charge ever showed in the red.

EECB worked for all but two OD fees.

Here is a quick rundown of my conversation:

ME: Hi, I dont understand how this one charge of $2.12 resulted in 6 overdraft fees...

Them: kjce0970y3n3kmdlwkmdwjdwij McDonalds, 4/25 oknsqaifohaf8ywefnwoenwief 5 Orders before that.

Me: I see... But, if it's based on the date of purchase and not when the actual payment posts, shouldn't you take into consideration the actual order that the charges came in throughout the day? Also, shouldn't my purchase be declined if I do not have the funds to cover my purchase?

Them: Well, our policy is that lknfy8inwecnf date lkn 09fn j1663r j4663r post, hard charge, pending, date, funds, fees.... Do you understand?

ME: No. Again, I understand that I have apparently spend $2.12 more than the amount of money in my account. I can accept that. I find sticking to a budget on par with rocket science, but I do not understand why this one purchase resulted in 5 OD fees. It's what your own website is showing me. I can see, clear as day, that there is only one purchase in the red. Everything else, before and after, is in the black.

Them: Well, our policy is that lknfy8inwecnf date lkn 09fn j1663r j4663r post, hard charge, pending, date, funds, fees.... Do you understand?

Me: You just said the exact same thing. You didn't answer my question, you just repeated your policy... I am asking how one purchase over my limit results in 5 fees.

Them: Well, our policy is that lknfy8inwecnf date lkn 09fn j1663r j4663r post, hard charge, pending, date, funds, fees.... Do you understand?

Me: Gives up.

Them: *ROLLS IN PILES OF MY MONEY*

This guys situation is even worse because NOTHING shows he went over. The best they can do is hope they reach 88 mph in time.

maxmax has it right on the money on holds on balance vs credit. things can get even more confusing when you use a check card and sometimes make purchases through a "credit" transaction (where you sometimes sign) vs a "debit" transaction (where you use your PIN).

this can also be explained if the pending charges of $44.00 and $5.55 were not made on Wednesday as stated, but during an earlier time.

the online statement could have looked a lot different just a few days ago, and it happened to cleared in those confusing orders. (evident by the fact that the $19.89 charge was made during the weekend as stated, but didn't clear till a later date).

although based on that, I'm not really sure how BoA came up with three overdraft charges. there should really only be two?

regardless, BoA should have just refunded all fees, especially if this was a first offense. I would press the matter further and give the online messaging center a few try, a brief email message w/ a neutral tone may get you those other additional fees waived.

are we really seeing the full picture here? are we trusting that the posting - and ORDER of posting on the website, is truly reflective of the order of real events and activity? I never trust the order of things on the BoA site myself, just use it for reference that things are either pending or posted.

No i can't explain these fees away [particularly not seeing the before and after the screenshot] or why there were 3. were the other transactions on the 28th [or pending] listed on the site above the item, but in real time happening before the transfer/deposit went through [that's $70 > $60]? I can't say, i don't know the timeline here. What kind of hold was on the deposit that we didn't see here? Just too much unknown to form an opinion from the sidelines [about BoA or the transaction itself]

But as other posters have said, don't tempt things by posting a deposit the same time you're posting a bunch of other transactions. Even if BoA is in the wrong here, that behavior is just asking for getting caught by legit fees.

Corporations run things in this country. Sites like this provide pushback, so I'm grateful for them.

That said, this is why I keep buffers in my checking accounts. I only use credit cards for online purchases.

No big surprise here. Bank of America is going tits up over their greedy buy-in to the subprime fiasco, and now with typical short-sighted corporate hubris they are trying to extract maximum revenue from their customers. Problem is, customers talk to each other, and just about everyone hates their bank nowadays. BoA, WaMu, etc.

I had BofA when I moved states in 1993 .. kept the account with BofA in the new state because I thought it would show "stability". Ha!

After enough of BofA's nickel-and-dime practices, I switched to a local bank, and wonder why I didn't do this when I first moved. Anyone who sticks with BofA, quite simply, deserves the grief that they mete out.

@Rando: Hey dude, um, how can you ASSUME this guy is living paycheck to pay check? Do you know what's in his savings? Some people dont keep more a lot of money in their checking account.

Troll elsewhere brother.

In other news, Bank of America, Bank of Oppotunists.

For my fiancee, being with BoA is like a bad relationship. She fell in love with them years ago when they were Fleet, over the years they changed into this abusive BoA person and she's still clinging on to the hope that one day they'll stop abusing her and it'll be like the old days. I keep telling her that it's not going to happen, but she's really just not listening.

Sad man, sad. There should be a support group.

permit ye get thou to a small claims court. Give BoA an overdraft fee called court costs.

Again, another reason why you should be using a credit card or two in which you pay off the balance at the end of the month. So stupid things like this, does not happen.

In short, the best solution is to never give your bank an opportunity to screw up. The more opportunities you give it, the more likelihood it is going to happen.

@Cap:

I don't follow your logic. If those pending transactions had happened at any time during the 8 days listed, the lowest the balance would have been was $9.95 (on 5/27).

This doesn't look like creative math to me, it looks like criminal fraud on the part of BoA.

@Wormfather:

You may also want to look into credit unions. There are some that have your savings automatically cover your checking without any fees at all. You can essentially keep next to nothing in your checking without worry about fees as long as you have the money in your savings.