Erin was the recipient of a recent scam attempt from Moreno and Woods, a debt collection agency that—according to her account and others found online—uses abusive tactics and fraudulent claims to try to con people into paying off debts they never owed to avoid things like wage garnishments and lawsuits. Erin fought back, and shared her story with us to warn others.
I received a voicemail today (5/27/08) out of the blue from a man who identified himself as David Cooper from Moreno and Woods. He said he was calling regarding Case Docket #93659, and that I must return his call immediately or else “the matter” could result in wage garnishment, denial of credit, or closing of existing lines of credit. He gave his number as 866-928-3160, ext. 109. Since the voicemail didn’t provide any information that would allow me to discount the matter out of hand, I returned my call.
Cooper retrieved my file, asked if I was Ms. [redacted] – I said I was – and asked me to confirm the last four digits of my SSN – I did not reply to that. I asked him what the call was regarding, and he said that they had a “judgement” against me from Bank of America regarding an outstanding balance of $20,000 on Visa account ending #1181 that was opened in 2001 and closed in 2004. (To the best of my knowledge this account never existed, let alone belonged to me – even supposing someone else had opened it in my name, there should have been some contact regarding it at some point, or a record of it on my credit report). I asked in what court the judgement was obtained, and he said they had the judgement “in the office.” I asked again what that meant, and what court of law had entered a judgement against me. He said that technically there was not a judgement yet, but three debt collections agencies had tried to get this money and so the claim was being filed in [redacted] County (where I reside – looks like they’re smart enough now to Google area codes before they get on the phone) on May 30.
I said that I had no recollection of that account, had never been contacted by a collection agency, and that I have done business with Bank of America regularly over the past several years. I asked if he thought it was odd such an issue would not have arisen in that time. He said it was odd but he wasn’t making it up and if anything someone might have stolen my identity. I said that I check my credit report regularly, and said that if someone has accumulated this debt by using my information, it would be extremely odd that it had not shown up on my credit report, and that neither BofA or a debt collection agency had contacted me in the intervening six years since the account was supposedly opened, or the four years since it supposedly defaulted. He agreed and said he was just trying to figure it since “the judgement” was against me for $20,000. At that point I told him that there might be people who fall for this sort of thing but I wasn’t one of them.
He again tried to say that it wasn’t up to him, there wasn’t anything to “fall for” because he was looking at my folder right there, and there was a judgement against me in court. I asked in what court the claim had been heard – he said again it was going to [redacted] County and would be entered there. I said I understood that, but he had already referenced a docket number (93659) and I wanted to know what court of law had provided that docket number, since a docket number would not have been generated unless a claim had already been filed against me somewhere. He said, “The docket number is here – it’s number 93659.” I asked again what court of law had provided that docket number. He could not answer (obviously, since it is a scare tactic and no claim has been filed against me anywhere).
Finally I said he had already told me so many falsehoods I had no reason to believe anything he had to say – he asked, “What, falsehoods?” I said, “You called my home, you left a threatening message saying that a claim had filed against me in court and that I could face financial penalties, then when I called you said a judgement had been entered against me – none of that is true!” He asked me to hold on (sounded like he was trying to get a supervisor on the line or something) and I refused, saying “And I’m going to ask here not to call here again,” and then hanging up.
Immediately following this conversation, I went online and obtained my credit reports from the three credit agencies (I had not obtained them in just over a year). Everything was in order – I printed off the reports – but while I was printing the last one an inquiry showed up on it from Marshall & Ziolkowski, a well known rip-off company who are now apparently using Moreno and Woods as a front. I immediately put a fraud alert on my reports as well. Hopefully this is the end of it, but I’m prepared to take legal action if they continue to contact me or try to report this fraudulent debt to the credit agencies.
I am just disgusted. The attitude would have been bad enough even if the debt existed, and since it DOES NOT EXIST, it’s even worse. And as mad as I am, I’m glad they called me instead of someone who might have believed their scare tactics and paid them – I’ve worked in the legal field before (specifically, I have worked with creditors on debt consolidation and relief for the disabled and injured), I know my few debts down the cent and I am current on all of them, I am not easily intimidated over the phone, I know how to check my credit report, add a fraud alert, and dispute fraudulent claims, I know my rights and I know what information a legitimate company would have to prove any real debt – how absolutely terrified would I be if I didn’t know any of those things? If I thought maybe there WAS some huge bill out there that I now had to pay or face legal penalties? These people should be in prison.
Erin points out that, should they call back, she has several options open to her:
The next steps, if they pursue this, could include me sending a demand for debt validation and/or cease and desist orders; reporting them to the BBB and relevant AGs [Attorney Generals]; and suing them for any violations of FDCPA or FCRA.
RELATED
Moreno and Woods [800notes.com]
“Report: Moreno And Woods”[Rip-off Report]
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@Snakeophelia: I had a very similar thing happen to me once, only the entity calling to collect was the IRS.
The person they were looking for had the exact same name as me and owed the feds something like $45,000. I knew right away it was a mixup because I was 20 years old at the time and hadn’t even grossed $45K in my life yet. Luckily, once it was clear that me and my doppelganger had different SSNs and DOBs the whole thing went away.
Two men enter! One man leaves!
Two men enter! One man leaves!
Two men enter! One man leaves!
Al la Thunderdome…
Sue them under the guise of the do not call registry via small claims. Get a couple hundred bucks for your trouble
Hi, all! I’m Erin from the original post. Thanks for all your words of encouragement
The only reason I called them back in the first place is that we were recently in serious car accident and I wanted to make sure it wasn’t related to that in any way. Once I figured it out it was just some scummy scam artist I started seeing red. I do take the threat of identity theft seriously, but, I swear, if you had talked to this guy it was just comical the way he was trying to use faux-legalese to cover the fact that the whole thing was total BS and he had no actual information. My favorite part was how fervently he wanted me to believe that the proof of the debt, claim, and judgement was “in the folder,” as if the existence of some paper generated in their own office was proof enough of my liability.
I’m sure I could win a claim against them for FDCPA and/or FCRA violations, at the very least, but I’d prefer they go away. (Also, I doubt I’d ever see a dime, so I’d just be out the filing fee.) If they don’t go away, though, I’m fully prepared to go after them in court. As I said before, for me this is an annoyance, but it makes me really upset to think about them taking advantage of people who would understandably be intimidated by this sort of aggression.
@heavylee-again: Depending on which credit bureau they subscribe to, they may have run a report without her SSN, and gotten it when they received the report. Trans-Union doesn’t require a SSN when pulling a report, only a name and address.
Exactly WHERE are you supposed to file a FDCPA court case if you catch someone violating the law. I have had at least three of these issues over the years and our state AG’s office was only able to tell me to file it myself in “federal court”. I would really like to fight back if I ever get hit by one of these scammers again. The last one was violating a bunch of FDCPA laws over a debt a company I used to work for had.
First thing I’d be wondering is how they picked me and where’d they get my info… In your shoes I’d be all about going along with the guy on the phone and pumping him for information. If a collector keeps you on the phone — which they want to do — they are just as likely to hang themselves. Play dumb and pump him for info.
It would be very odd for a $20K delinquent credit card to not be reported to the credit bureaus… and it’s a rare person that could forget having one.
Make sure you give a blow by blow of round two.
@bohemian: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
But since they called your house, at least part of the fraud took place at your home, and you could sue in the local District Court.
There is no federal small claims, so you’ll need a lawyer.
Erin is full of free-range awesome.
On recording phone calls – many states require BOTH parties to consent to recording (unless you have a warrant), so be sure to tell the scammer you are recording the call for quality assurance and you are sure they are doing likewise.
You do not have to have a lawyer to file in any court, but if you’re filing in Federal court it’s a very, very good idea to do so.
What everyone else has said.
(DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer; I just work with them!)
Just to add, though: if someone has a judgment against you, they were required to notify you, in writing, and have you personally served (which can be registered mail in some states, btw, and in some states by sheriff) with the complaint against you. While failure to reply can lead to a default or summary judgment in your state (check statutes, court rules, etc.) you have the right to know what you are being sued for and the right to respond. Companies cannot just get a judgment against you (in most states, AFAIK) without your knowledge! Asking details such as “in what county” and “what docket number” are good, but better yet, ask
Date in which it was filed.
Method it was served upon you.
Date the judgment was entered.
Name of the judge who entered the judgment.
If they then backpedal with the “oh, we’re about to file it” then you can simply reply, “Well, when I am served with the copy of the complaint, then you can discuss the case with my attorney, but I have nothing more to say until I have reviewed the court complaint with my attorney.” That should shut them the hell up as well.
Oh, and if they *do* have a judgment against you and you were never notified, you can and probably should demand proof of service and a transcript of the court proceedings, as now they’ve added perjury to their fraud charges!
I figured that I just had to share this tidbit. My wife got a call a few months ago from a collection agency saying that she owed $400 or so to Lane Bryant. She had not bought anything from them in a while, so she asked when the bill was from. Some shuffling of papers, and the caller answers… 1983. We then asked for written proof of the debt and proof that it was not past the statute of limitations. The caller said that they’d get back to us, but it’s been a while and we haven’t heard anything.
If it had been Lane Bryant that called, we would have gladly paid the money since the debt was probable (at the time my wife would have been 16, and she was financially irresponsible), even if we didn’t have to due to the statue of limitations. But to pay a middleman collection agency just doesn’t feel right.
I did a whois look up on their website and here are the results
[www.whois-search.com]
Not only is the website only about 5 months old, it’s hosted on Yahoo! Web Hosting, very professional for a collection agency. Big legitimate businesses would have their own private server.
Notice the title on their homepage just says “Home Page” instead of something professional.
[www.morenoandwoods.com]
Read the comments on the 800notes.com link and you’ll learn more about Michael Azzinaro’s and Marshall & Ziolkowski’s shady activity.
Domain Name………. morenoandwoods.com
Creation Date…….. 2008-01-31
Registration Date…. 2008-01-31
Expiry Date………. 2009-01-31
Organisation Name…. michael azzinaro
Organisation Address. 1900 empire blvd.
Organisation Address. # 252
Organisation Address. webster
Organisation Address. 14580
Organisation Address. NY
Organisation Address. UNITED STATES
Admin Name……….. michael azzinaro
Admin Address…….. 1900 empire blvd.
Admin Address…….. # 252
Admin Address…….. webster
Admin Address…….. 14580
Admin Address…….. NY
Admin Address…….. UNITED STATES
Admin Email………. Email address protected from spam harvesters
Admin Phone………. +1.8006906293
Admin Fax…………
Tech Name………… YahooDomains TechContact
Tech Address……… 701 First Ave.
Tech Address………
Tech Address……… Sunnyvale
Tech Address……… 94089
Tech Address……… CA
Tech Address……… UNITED STATES
Tech Email……….. Email address protected from spam harvesters
Tech Phone……….. +1.6198813096
Tech Fax………….
Name Server………. yns1.yahoo.com
Name Server………. yns2.yahoo.com
Whois Server Version 2.0
Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to [www.internic.net]
for detailed information.
Domain Name: MORENOANDWOODS.COM
Registrar: MELBOURNE IT, LTD. D/B/A INTERNET NAMES WORLDWIDE
Whois Server: whois.melbourneit.com
Referral URL: [www.melbourneit.com]
Name Server: YNS1.YAHOO.COM
Name Server: YNS2.YAHOO.COM
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 30-jan-2008
Creation Date: 30-jan-2008
Expiration Date: 30-jan-2009
>>> Last update of whois database: Wed, 28 May 2008 23:23:26 EDT <<<
My lawyer stated that you never give a scummy collection agency your lawyer’s contact information. The people will call the lawyer multiple times with nuisance calls. When the agency calls you, it is your time, when they call your attorney, it is their time and your money.
If a scummy agency is harassing you or breaking the law, then your attorney can contact them via mail and only accept mail in return.
It’s good to check if your state allows phone recordings. A lot of laws on recording phone calls are to prevent wire taps, and as such some states are 50% states. In these states only one of the 2 parties on the phone needs to know of the recording, in this case being you.
A good website to check this is: [www.rcfp.org]
So for example, in Virginia as long as YOU know you are recording a phone call, it is legal (funny eh?)
If this were me, I would sue the crap out of them, but the OP is just plain awesome anyways.
Also, in most places, you can press *57 after you hang up every time they call, and if you press *57 like 5 times, you can go to the police and get their address or w/e.
I received a letter in the mail from a similar company saying I owed them $2400 in medical debit. Since I don’t owe this money I was pretty annoyed. I learned that sending a bill in the mail for services you know were never rendered is mail fraud. I have kept the letter should they try to contact me again. They did call on the phone but when it was pointed out that they were well known to be a company that fraudulently tries to collect medical debts they hung up and haven’t called since.
Congrats. I got contacted by Moreno and Woods with a very similar claim. It was for a citibank card that was supposedly overdue from 2005, but the only address they had on file was from 2000, when I was living in a different state. It was a big red flag, and I eventually sent out a DV letter to them; never heard back. I checked my credit report when they first contacted me and everything was fine – that account was not listed (although two other citibank accounts were listed). That was two months ago, so I’ll have to pull my credit reports again pretty soon and make sure they didn’t illegally post an account I was disputing on my credit report.
@ekaptian:
Erin’s one tough as nails gal I have to say … way to go!
These knuckleheads have contacted me twice in the past 6 months or so trying
to collect $17,851.62 they claim my Dad owes on a Bank Of America Visa card.
Funny thing is, he’s never had any credit card from Bank Of America, and has
never applied for one…
The first call I got from them (some months ago) was made by an individual
who gave his name as (but it was very likely bogus…) as Joseph Strauss. He
stated this was a courtesy call regarding a complaint that my Dad is
supposed to have made with the Sheriff’s Department – that was the first
indicator he was suffering from fecal retention syndrome…
I asked this person which Sheriff’s Department he was calling from – he
immediately started going off in another direction and did not answer my
question…
Most importantly, my Dad has never made any complaint with any law
enforcement agency, which I knew but did not reveal to this Joseph
Strauss…
By this time I was really starting to enjoy this person making a horses xxx
out of himself…
I told him my Dad has never had, and never applied for a Bank Of America
Visa card, and if he had the proof he claimed to have, then put up or shut
up, meaning send me proof of the debt…
This is when it really got interesting…
This Joseph Strauss started using such profanity, the likes of which would
make a drunker sailor cover his ears!
I hung up on him, he called back, I hung up on him again and he called back.
This went on for about 20 minutes before he gave up I guess and didn’t call
back again…
I just a few days ago, on 6/11/2008, received another call from these
knuckleheads. It was a female this time, but if she gave her name, I didn’t
catch it…
She implied that she was calling from an attorney’s office – which I’ve
learned by my perusal online about this Moreno And Woods bunch is a-typical
of their tactics…
I asked this person when was this debt incurred, and other specific
questions, all of which were met with more profanity…
My conclusion? They are liars! They are scavengers, bottom feeders …want
me to keep going??? They’re all mouth and have no testicular structure…
Stand up to them, and they’ll punk out…
Tito D In Los Angeles
@Tank:
As to obtaining your social security number … there are any number of
sources where that kind of information can be obtained, both legitimate and
otherwise. And given the well documented sleazy reputation that Moreno &
Woods have, it’s highly unlikely it was obtained by any legtitmate means…
The way they do business speaks for itself…
Tito D
I have been harassing these moreno and woods ex convicts for a long time now. They tried to commit fraud against me . They have ex convicts working for them. Would you give money to these people? NO . They TRIED to say i had a bad debt. The credit card number never existed , even confirmed it by the credit card company. The company said they were trying to scam me and not to pay it. After a lengthy online and personal investigation , since i found out i live only 100 miles away from them, i was to without a doubt whatso ever come to the conclusion they are a fraud. So sue me for harassment scumbags. You wont because you know i will publically expose you and some of you dont want to break your probation . Yes i know now all about the people working there. When you target a law enforcement person to scam , well you screwed up. Let me warn everybody. Dont give these people anything , PERIOD.